Stories from the Sales Frontlines

rroyce10

**.. They would grossly overestimate the costs of one year, and then approve you for WAAAY over that. I mean, enough to pay for tuition, books, room and board, and then some -- but I know some who did, and I bet they are paying big time now. One guy had silk sheets, chrome rims for his car, lots of premium imported beer, and ate out every meal ..**

Hmmm, sounds like the average home mortgage lender ..... :P

Terry.

joel0622

He was paying $11700 for the car + tax. He earned every quarter of those finance charges that carries it to the $18600 mark.

british_rover

There have started to be investigations into the lending practices of various educational lenders. So far the investigations have turned up some interesting things.

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benderofbows

Welcome back to the boards Terry!

snakeweasel

Wow that would make it almost $4,600 for the car, back out TTL and you are at around $4,200 for a neon with 155K miles on it?

They saw him coming.

roadburner

Back in 1980-1982 when I was in grad school you could get low interest -9%(!)- student loans without any showing of financial need. I think I borrowed around $6K/year, which did help pay for my 1979 Arrow GT 2.6 and a five week InterRail tour of Europe. That said, I paid it off in full and on time after graduation. At the time, it was my opinion that the money was out there and sinceI didn't stiff the lender, why not borrow it?

mikefm58

Used (around 2004) Saturn sedan, 5 years lease, $400 a month. They also told her that those Saturns have an Audi engine.

Now I definately cannot help her - she's upside down about $10,000...

Assuming you have no plans to trade, what difference does being upside down on a lease make? Don't they all require gap insurance? Granted that deal is pretty bad for her, no idea why anyone would lease a 3 year old used car for 5 years.

lemko

Yeah, every young lady wants a Craftsman 50-piece tool set!

lemko

Oh, man! I was just looking for a house in the suburbs and you wouldn't believe what they approved me for as I have stellar credit. Here's what would've happened if I'd have been dumb enough to go for it...

"Wow! You really have a nice home, Mr. Lemko!"

"Sure do! Let me show you around my 6,000 sq ft mansion." This is my living room. Over there is my milk crate entertainment center complete with black & white Philco portable, Sears all-in-one stereo system complete with 8-track and all my Boxcar Willie, Burl Ives, and Slim Whitman cartridges. In here is my kitchen and dining room complete with cable spool table and four spent kegs to sit on. If you look outside, you'll see my huge driveway and two-car garage. Parked in front of one of the bays is my orange 1973 hatchback with a brown door. Wanna stay for dinner? I've got four flavors of ramen noodles and Old Milwaukee...OOPS! Sorry, gotta go! I'm going to be late for my third job at Wal-Mart!"

jipster

LOL, espcially the part about the Old Milwaukee. After the 8th or 9th one I hear they start to taste pretty good. :surprise:

But no 8 tracks of San Feir, the master of the pan flute?

kyfdx

I think that is Zamfir..

The rest of it is funny, but I think there is a kernel of truth in the Boxcar Willie/Slim Whitman 8-tracks...

joel0622

My wife and I went through the same thing many years ago when we were newlyweds. We went and got pre-approved and the bank told us we were pre-approved for like $150K.

Ok so we went and looked at $150K houses. At the second one the relator asked if we were sure we were looking at the right houses. I said, well the bank said we could afford it. She then told us a payment range. We proceeded to leave there and go find some $70K houses.

british_rover

Ha they did the same thing to us last year. Went into to talk to the broker and he makes some quick calculations on a bit of paper after I tell him all our financials and he goes.

"Oh yeah I should be able to easily approved on a 270,000 dollar house."

Now I am pretty good at estimating payments in my head and 270,000 did not at all work out with any kind of remotely conventional financing. In fact it was about 50,000 dollars to high from what I could figure out in my head.

I remembered what he said though so when right before closing he started back pedaling on the closing costs, fees, interest rate, money down etc. on a 194,000 dollar house then I could say, "Well why are you having so many problems on a house that was only 194,000 dollars when you said you could easily get us approved on a 270,000 dollar house?"

He shut up pretty quick after that and ended up refunding us about 2,000 dollars in extra bogus closing costs.

jmonroe

"Sure do! Let me show you around my 6,000 sq ft mansion." This is my living room. Over there is my milk crate entertainment center complete with black & white Philco portable,…

When I had my mansion I had a 9 inch round Admiral…soooo small only one person could watch at a time.

… and dining room complete with cable spool table…

You are a bragger ain’t ya? I didn’t even have one of those; I ate off the window sill.

I always wondered what it would be like to live high-class…after listening to you, I now know.

jmonroe

toyota2lexus

In the old days in the car biz when you leased someone a car you didn't have to disclose the selling price of the automobile.

A lease car payment is of course much lower than a purchase payment of the same term, at the end of the term on a lease you return the car - on a purchase term you own the car.

Learned from the old salts at the time that you could always sell someone with nothing a car, that kind of customer was not so concerned about the price of the car as they were about the monthly payments and would have absolutely no understanding of what a lease was.

The managers would not pencil deals with sale prices but with grossly high overpayments, still a grossly high lease overpayment was less than a purchase payment, the folks would pick the lease everytime.

Nowadays those same people that overpaid for their leased cars pay out the nose should they have bad credit and resort to a "second chance lender".

Was asked by a woman to look over a contract that she had co signed with for her son, the boy had purchased a 2004 Malibu for $8995, financing at 21.5% for 60 months, payment included a warranty, GAP, accident, life, health and disability insurance, his monthly payment was in high 400's.

geffen

sheesh 16.5% APR on a Taurus? I couldn't imagine settling with such a high rate.

jmonroe

Was asked by a woman to look over a contract that she had co signed with for her son, the boy had purchased a 2004 Malibu for $8995, financing at 21.5% for 60 months, payment included a warranty, GAP, accident, life, health and disability insurance, his monthly payment was in high 400's.

If he ever realizes what he did to himself, he'll need that disability insurance.

Can you actually keep a straight face when you do something like this to someone? I know you're in the biz to make money but do you ever draw the line at some point? Or do you justify this by saying, "if I don't do it, the guy down the road will !! :sick:

jmonroe

jescue

Well there must be a reason the rate was 21.5%. All the banks we use cap what you can mark the rate up.Some let you make 1 point,some as much as 3. We do not even offer disabilty or other insurance,just gap.

tazereli

Dont be so surprised at that. Back in 2001 or so, my S-I-L and B-I-L financed a 96 Taurus wagon for something like 21.5% at a BHPH. Guess what 3 years later, that one crapped the bed (never changed the oil in the 3 years) and was replaced by a 1999 Isuzu Rodeo. Don't know the terms on that but couldn't have been pretty. 2 years later the rodeo pulled the same thing (same scenario) was replaced by a 95 Chevrolet Corsica. they still have the Corsica and it seems to be running ok. needless to say they aren't very forgiving to their cars. i shudder about the things their 3 children are learning.

lemko

Credit life and disability? I thought those were now illegal? High $400s for a 2004 Malibu? I bought a new Cadillac for that amount for a much, much lower rate and much, much shorter term. How can people dig themselves into such a hole and why would his Mom let him do it? If I were as fierociously dumb as this young man, my Mom and Dad would've let me know in no uncertain terms.

lemko

Aaaaghhhh!!! Are both your S-I-L and B-I-L masochists? Not only do they subject themselves to extreme financial punishment, but also some of the crappiest cars on the planet. I guess they're too proud for whips and chains, so they go about it in this manner.

A '96 Taurus, a '99 Isuzu Rodeo, and a Corsica? Geeze, sounds like the diabolical trinity.

kiawah

They also told her that those Saturns have an Audi engine.


She mis-heard them....they said 'it ought' to have an engine, not 'audi' engine

jmonroe

Dont be so surprised at that. Back in 2001 or so, my S-I-L and B-I-L financed a 96 Taurus wagon for something like 21.5%. Guess what 3 years later, that one crapped the bed (never changed the oil in the 3 years) and was replaced by a 1999 Isuzu Rodeo. Don't know the terms on that but couldn't have been pretty. 2 years later the rodeo pulled the same thing (same scenario) was replaced by a 95 Chevrolet Corsica. they still have the Corsica and it seems to be running ok. needless to say they aren't very forgiving to their cars. i shudder about the things their 3 children are learning.

Follow me here, I’m going to do some simple math:

In 2001 they bought a 96’ Taurus, (a five year old car that they destroyed).

In 2004 they bought a 99’ Rodeo, (a five year old car that they destroyed).

In 2006 they bought a 95’ Corsica, (a nine year old car that they’re still trying to kill…those Chevies must be tuff).

Well, if nothing else your in-laws have a reverse gear that still works. They’re going backwards, right ? Maybe in 2008, they’ll buy a 96’.

As for their children, their neighbors are probably also concerned.

I thought I had a doozy for a B-I-L; yours makes mine look like the freshest bread in the bakery.

jmonroe

8sparkplugs

It seems like they don't have any problem with it at all. All you will hear them say is something about how these people put themselves in this situation. I wonder how old her son was? It might be that he doesn't have any credit, not that he has bad credit. I know its really hard for anyone on here to believe, but many people don't understand all of the particulars of the car buying experience. The truth is that people with credit issues only really care about, can you get me financed. I had an employee in her forties who didn't know what interest was. She was mad when I told her that she was going to pay back alot more than just the sale price of the car.

chetj

looks like he is taking it up to the elbow w/ no grease...couldve bought a new caddy for that kind of money

chetj

i always marvel at how people wont shell out 20 bucks for a oil change...or check the oil...my bro in law went 28 k on same oil on his camry that was 2 quarts low when i checked it...he added 2 quarts and finally changed it...he puts 30k a year on car too...engine is louder now..his turbo passat has some sludge, he went 9k on notorious sludge engine when not maintained...i get on my sister to change oil or else they wouldnt ...amazing...his subaru died from lack of oil changes...240 k..keerist at least add some oil

toyota2lexus

There are a lot of people out there who will prey on uninformed people. The way that dealerships are run and the manner in which dealership personnel are compensated means that not all will pay the same for sales or service.

From the time someone turns sixteen and gets their license until the time the license is taken away being able to drive is pretty much a necessary thing for all. Public transportation sucks, if you want to work you're going to have to have wheels to get back and forth in.

To live within our society you pretty much have to have a car, when my children turned sixteen I got them all "hoopties" to get around in and then really didn't see them again until it time for bed. They had freedom and could spend as much time out of the house as I let them.

Losing the privilege to drive is one of the last things any of us would want to surrender.

As my father got older his memory started to fail, one morning when he was eighty four he called to say that he was coming over (he only lived about 4 miles away). I waited four hours for him to arrive and he never posted, later that day he arrived back at his place and I asked him where he had been, he told me that he had gotten lost and eventually found himself downtown near the White House about twenty miles away.

Clearly it was time for him to stop driving, I managed to pocket his keys so that he could no longer drive, the battle that later ensued to get those keys back was a heck of an epic, clearly though he was a danger to himself and others should he ever get behind the wheel.

Having a car for an elderly person represents the last vestige of freedom, being able to go somewhere without being a burden to someone else.

In the case of the woman that asked me to look over the contract her son had obligated himself too, I clearly saw that all the contracts were signed, there was no coercion, he needed wheels in order to be able to get around, he felt that he was able to make the payment, thought I could have saved him hundreds of dollars per month in payment he fell in love with the first car he was shown and never consulted with me.

The mother was not born in this country, I was not going to tell her that her boy had been taken advantage of and let her stress about that, all I told her was that the deal looked alright but in the future come see cause I can do much better.

jmonroe

...couldve bought a new caddy for that kind of money

That's exactly what 'lemko' said he did in post 16291.

Those caddies must be really good deals; just don't mention that to 'graph'. :shades:

jmonroe

jmonroe

i always marvel at how people wont shell out 20 bucks for a oil change...

I learned long ago, like most people that know anything about cars, that oil is the cheapest insurance you can buy to protect a car. Waaaay more important than extended warranties.

Just took Mrs. jmonroe’s 06’ to the dealer for it’s one year upteen point inspection. The car had almost 5100 miles on it so the service advisor said, “gee, you sure don’t put a lot of miles on a car in a year do ya but since its here should we do an oil change on it”. I said, “no thanks I go by months not miles (try to keep it to 3, max 4 months), I changed the oil myself just a couple of weeks ago, its already had 4 oil changes”. The service advisor said, “changing your oil that often should make this car last forever”.

I don’t want it to out live her, sooo I’ll probably buy her another one in 10/12 years, she deserves it.

Yep, cheapest insurance you’ll ever buy for a car.

jmonroe

marsha7

overpriced...I have a bankruptcy client who just bought a 2003 PT Cruiser for $22,000, which I thought was a little high...they loaned her the money (BHPH) after just one month on a job...she lost the job, so now she has to file Bankruptcy to get out of the $22K loan...

Oh, one more thing...a friend of her co-signed the note, and SHE had only had a job for one month...and she just lost her job...

Folks, you can't make this stuff up, but it is real...

oldfarmer50

"... since I didn't stiff the lender..."

Didn't you stiff the taxpayers who were underwriting those low rates?

My younger brother did the same thing. His tuition was all paid for so he got a low interest student loan and bought a sports car with it.

oldfarmer50

"...it's already had 4 oil changes..."

When she's ready to sell call me.

snakeweasel

A '96 Taurus, a '99 Isuzu Rodeo, and a Corsica? Geeze, sounds like the diabolical trinity.

I don't know, I had a Corsica put almost 150K on the thing and only did regular maintence. The guy I sold it to put another 150K on it with little trouble before dropping the tranny doing something stupid.

snakeweasel

I know people who usually get a short term lease for their cars. They never change the oil, they figure they don't need to since they will only have the car for the first 20K or so miles. One reason why I won't buy a used car.

mjfloyd1

Welcome back Terry. Long time, no "read".

Mark

jmonroe

When she's ready to sell call me.

Remember, I said I’ll probably buy her another one in 10/12 years. Being you’re an old farmer do you think you’ve got that much time?

jmonroe

roadburner

Didn't you stiff the taxpayers who were underwriting those low rates?

How so? I was entitled to borrow the money just like any other qualified applicant. Anyway, the ultimate solution was to require a showing of financial need in order to qualify for the loan.

jmonroe

One reason why I won't buy a used car.

And that just doesn’t have to be. I’ve owned my share of used cars but that was years ago before leases were so popular. Those darn leases aren’t good for us common folks who would buy used if lease cars weren’t so neglected. Sometimes I wonder if leases are good for anyone (other than the car biz) even businesses, which I understand don’t have the tax write-offs that once made them so attractive.

Heck, my own brother who used to change his oil religiously at 5000 miles now says he waits for the 7500 mile mark because Pontiac says that’s the recommended interval for the car he now leases. When he told me that I said, “you can’t be serious” and his adult son chimes in and says, “oh yes he is” !! :sick:

No more used cars for me. Hate those darn leases.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

Sometimes I wonder if leases are good for anyone

If you want a new car every two or three years and don't put a lot of miles on a car then a lease is most likely the way to go. I put over 20K miles a year on my car (my current daily drive is 7 years 7 days old today and has well over 140K miles on it) so a lease is out of the question.

jmonroe

...(my current daily drive is 7 years 7 days old today and has well over 140K miles on it)...

Thanks for telling me now that its a week past the birthday party. I'd have come and brought a quart of oil. :mad:

jmonroe

mjfloyd1

Maybe they said an "odd" engine??
JK
Mark

chikoo

he waits for the 7500 mile mark because Pontiac says that’s the recommended interval for the car he now leases

and he is doing the right thing. The only one more thing I would recommend is to check the oil level every couple of thousand miles and add if it has burnt any.

roadburner

Heck, my own brother who used to change his oil religiously at 5000 miles now says he waits for the 7500 mile mark because Pontiac says that’s the recommended interval for the car he now leases.

I run synthetic in all my cars and usually use the longest drain interval recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. The ti and X3 get M1 0W-40 at 7.5K-9K intervals. The ti has over 111K on it and looking through the oil filler the cams, rockers, and upper cylinder head appears to be brand new- no varnish or sludge whatsoever. Like most M42s it consumes a bit of oil between changes- something it has done since it was new. I once ran the oil in the X3 out to 9K once and had a UOA performed by Blackstone Labs. They concluded that I could have run it out to 10K. Oil consumption is nil at 53K. The Wrangler gets M1 10W-30 at 6K-7K intervals and at 103K the 4.0 looks clean and uses no oil. The Mazda only has 2.3K on the clock, but it will get a 5W-30 synthetic at 3K and thereafter at 5K intervals. My wife's 1997 528i is now in the hands of its third owner, and at 150K it still uses no oil and runs flawlessly. The oil change regimen? 5W-40 Rotella T synthetic every 8K-9K miles.
Having said all that, you have to do what makes YOU feel comfortable. Based on my experience, and the experience of other friends/mechanics I trust, a 7K-10K OCI doesn't worry me at all- provided a good synthetic oil of the proper viscosity is used.

tazereli

thats the funny thing...the Chevy's that they have owned were their most reliable cars. The 1st BIL drives his grand fathers caprice and that was still running last i saw of it this april. the Taurus replaced a geo prizm (corolla) that one got handed to my other BIL to see if he could fix the small head gasket leak it had. that lasted about a year before it hit the bone yard. he figured the parts were more than the car was worth so he drove it for a year w/o repairs. the 2nd BIL is a VW tech that absolutely refused to work on their cars after being stiffed too many times by the 1st couple. hence the start of the killing of cars. I weep for my niece and nephews. i could go on about their woes but doesn't seem appropriate to air too much dirty laundry.
Regards,
Kyle

owner of a 98 civic 100K and still going strong and a 94 f150 with 117K that looks almost new.
Reg

im_brentwood

150k on a 97 528i is nothing.. can't kill an M52.. now.. the TU motors.......

My oil change intervals are pretty much overkill, but I sleep better. I also don't want to rebuild the M5's engine.

88 M5: Castrol Syntec 20W50 every 3-4k. It's overkill, it's also a 188k mile M engine hat will cost a fortune to rebuild.

97 740iL: 10W30 synthetic every 5k or so. Still kicking and approaching 150k.

95 525iT: Being parted out. Oh well..

80 635csi (Yes I said '80.. Euro car with the L-Block M90 engine) 20W50 GTX every 3k or 6 months.

93 740i: 10W30 Synth every 5k

Vauxhall gets special nectar from the gods tho

geffen

I have heard of some people not changing the oil on their lease car for 20K miles, I have purchased used cars in the past it really doesn't deter me from buying one.

oldfarmer50

"...Being you're an OLD farmer do you think you've got that much time?..."

For a car that gets oil changes every 1300 miles? You bet I've got the time. I might have to equip it with a wheelchair lift though.

dino001

How so? I was entitled to borrow the money just like any other qualified applicant. Anyway, the ultimate solution was to require a showing of financial need in order to qualify for the loan.

The money was subsidized, thus bank received some extra incentive from Uncle Sam. You say you were to show you were in financial need and you did, at least on paper. Fundsraising campaign for trip to Europe would hardly qualify as financial need, if you asked me.

But it's water under the bridge - if this trip made you a better citizen, we all still benefited somehow

jmonroe

My oil change intervals are pretty much overkill, but I sleep better.

That’s exactly the way I feel about it. If something were to ever happen to one of my cars, I’ll at least know it wasn’t because I spared the oil.

Not to labor this point but if anyone wants to know my feelings about oil changes, go to the “Oil change/fiascos” forum post 898 here at Edmunds.

I know, engines are built better today and oil is also better but I have a bad habit that I can’t break.

jmonroe

psorter

"I have heard of some people not changing the oil on their lease car for 20K miles, I have purchased used cars in the past it really doesn't deter me from buying one. "

yes, unless it's one of the toyota "sludger" engines, it will be fine