Stories from the Sales Frontlines

sterlingdog

You must know my CPA! Thanks.

Richard

snakeweasel

Please allow me to explain the tax advantage as expressed by my CPA.

Sometimes that wouldn't work, sometimes it will. Maintaining a mortgage to have the tax write off may not be the best financial move. You have to remember that there is a cost to maintaining that mortgage and tax savings won't come close to covering it.

Also depending on your tax situation and how your finances are structured you may have no tax benefit at all. You could not even have a taxable income after your standard deductions and personal exemptions. So having additional write offs would do you no good.

But since I do not know your tax and financial positions I cannot say one way or the other if it is good or bad for you.

sterlingdog

Thanks for the input. I'll ask my CPA next time I am near the office.
R.

isellhondas

I was hoping you would jump in.

Hey, if it works, do it!

isellhondas

I can't help you if you want a Solara Convertable but Mackabee can. Now, if it's an S-2000, that's a different story!

stickguy

to the whole contract debate. Obviously, it was just a mistake/oversight, but if anything, the dealer could have held they buyer to the deal.

If the contract indicated a trade for $x.xx and no payoff, then he owed them a car, with a title. So, theoretically, couldn't the dealer claim that in this case, they buyer was responsible for the payoff? I know that dealers normally do it, but I assume that is more for convenience (and to get the deal done quicker, and the metal on the road!)

im_brentwood

Customer wants to pay $26k. Customer is apparently not too pleasant and rude, etc.

Sometimes it's not worth the sale for a bad survey. I have declined sales when I knew I was going to get a bad survey...

Customer: "OK, but if I can't get my price then you won't get a good survey"

Me: "Sir, I appreciate your time but we're going to have to decline the sale"

Customer: "WHAT?"

user777

i agree with your position. the question i would have was could the omission have been intentional. ok, mistakes happen. seems like the dealership did try to make it right, although the SM needs a mental recalibration.

i don't want to beat a dead horse, but how typical is it for someone to trade a car with an outstanding balance and the dealer *NOT* include the payoff in the numbers for the deal?

the bottom line is the dealership made the error, not the customer, correct?

mackabee

Richard, isellhondas doesn't sell convertibles but I do!
Mack

isellhondas

This is REALLY getting beat to death!

Yes, the dealer made an error! A MAJOR, DUMB error!

An error the buyer SHOULD have immediatly known had happened.

I'm sure lessons were learned on both sides.

isellhondas

Oh, but I do unless S-2000's don't count?

mackabee

Sometimes I have to do what I have to do. This was one situation in which I chose my best interest. I have a loyal customer who buys cars from me/us every year. He buys them cheap and sells them for close to or what he buys them and repeats the process. All he does is call me when he's ready we strike a deal over the phone and he comes by and picks up the car. We've offered this same vehicle at the $29.5k out the door to him and will probably do the deal this week. He always gives us perfect surveys. I will rather sell the car to him even if it's a mini.

Mack

sterlingdog

Well, what do you know? You sell the very car that I had wanted. Why does User777 mention that it could have been intentional? What would the dealership gain by this? Since you sell SE's, what would have been a reasonable deal off of sticker price of $30,228? Thanks.

Richard

british_rover

Technically the S2000 is a roadster and Toyota hasn't made something half as good over the past 10 years.

madmanmoo

Not a big fan of the S2000. A cramped interior with a marginally fun 4 cylinder with a $34k price tag. Granted, you certainly won't be forced to pay that amount, but think of the options out there. Notably the Z comes to mind.



-Moo

isellhondas

I agree on the cramped interior, but "marginally fun"?

I guess you've never stood on one in third gear?

jescue

The Boxster comes to my mind..used at that price, but still.

british_rover

The Z-Roadster is a different kind of car. It is larger, not as tossable a more powerful engine sure but it doesn't rev as high and you don't get the connection to the road like you get in the S2000.

The S2000 is a little more Lotus-like in its application of the sporty car and the Z is more ehhh American I guess.

greanpea68

In what way was I arrogant?

Your SM felt that $29,500. was a good price for the car and that this price would provide a fair profit for the dealership.

You chose to ignore/override his wishes because your commission might be reduced, thus, placing your best interest ahead of the customer and the dealership. I would call that arrogant, not to mention undermining your SM.
Replies to this message:
• im_brentwood (Sep 09, 2007 9:57 pm)
• mackabee (Sep 10, 2007 6:43 am)

Are you kidding me?

Kirstie_H

Even funnier, it looks like you & Mack might not live THAT far apart.

stickguy

Which location are you at 9road would be enough). I will be in the neighborhood this week and might stop by to say hi.

You will know me, since I will be the guy driving a crappy G6 rental car that is going to walk in and announce "who wants to sell me a car today?" That, or I can wear a yellow carnation behind my ear!

mackabee

I'm at the Virginia Beach Blvd location. Across from a big furniture store. I'm off wednesday. Be funny if you do the "who wants to sell me a car today!" bit.

Mackabee

british_rover

Be funny if you do the "who wants to sell me a car today!" bit.


I HATE when people do that. It is always soooo painful to sell them a car.

jescue

Wow- I never see the people who say that BUY a car. :surprise:

stickguy

Weds. I know i could swing by (I am flying in around dinner time). If I am opwn Thursday eve or Fri afternoon I will drop in.

Hey, maybe you can sell me a car that I don't need, and I can drive home instead of flying. My wife would love that!

if you take the pontiac rental in trade, that should make an interesting story when you try to get the title! I will handle the payoff, OK?

mackabee

This one must have leather? I have an SE in the showroom right now but sticker is $28k and change. I'm looking at my inventory to see what I have and what's coming in. Send me an e-mail.
Mack

british_rover

Thinking back to it I have only had one and I didn't sell him the car.

A coworker and I were standing by the service desk talking and this guy came with the, "WHO WANTS TO SELL ME A CAR TODAY?" line.

He was loud, obnoxious and even did an over the top pose with his hands way up in the air when he said it.

I turned around and walked away. My coworker sold him a car but it took him the entire Saturday to do it. They guy came in at 9:00 am and the whole transaction was not completed till after 3:00. The guy wanted to take the car that very day and we just aren't set up for spot deliveries on Saturday. He wouldn't buy the car unless he could have it that very day though so it was pushed through but it wasn't detailed because no one was there to clean it.

He came back two weeks later to have it cleaned and some accessories put on. In the six hours it took my coworker to sell him that car I met three people and sold two of them arranging delivery for Monday and Thursday of next week.

Our other sales guide also sold one car and met two people one of whom bought a car the following week.

Our other guy wasted six hours and made 150 bucks while myself and the second most senior guy sold three cars that day and a fourth later on. :P

lrguy44

Be funny if you do the "who wants to sell me a car today!" bit.

What that really means is "I am going to waste your time for a few hours and buy from a competitor in 6-9 months."

gogiboy

User--

It's something Martin or Martin something Honda. My brother lives in Atlanta. At one time he and his wife bought a new Accord--perhaps from this same place.

Gogiboy

joel0622

I can't speak for the dealership in question, but at our store on the buyer order it states either

"I guarantee my trade is free and clear of all liens and understand I am responsible to deliver a clear title to the seller"

Or

I guarantee the payoff on my trade is $XXXX. If more I will pay the difference"

The buyer initials next to this statement on the buyers order. Guess that keeps things like this from happening.

psorter

"The Z-Roadster is a different kind of car. It is larger, not as tossable a more powerful engine sure but it doesn't rev as high and you don't get the connection to the road like you get in the S2000."

practically speaking, I always thought a 4 cylinder high revving sports car was infinitely more enjoyable vehicle as you can run thru the gears everyday during your daily commute, whereas a vette or viper would be breaking a highway speed limit before you needed to shift into second gear, just my opinion

madmanmoo

I dunno, personal taste I guess. It just doesn't have the "OOMPH" I'm looking for. I think that the general public must agree with me too. Look at Z roadster sales compared to the S2000.

-Moo

madmanmoo

The Z is a 6-spd close ratio shifter. You can get to 2500 rpms and easily shift to your next gear with plenty of torque available.

I think this is definitely coming down to personal taste though. The S2000 just never got me excited.

-MOo

isellhondas

To each his own. I think the Z's are ugly and clumsy compared to an S-2000. Just a different car.

chikoo

there was no legally enforceable contract

that is business law 101 speaking. Right?

You are correct. Just because a paper says "CONTRACT" on top, does not make it a legal contract.

lrguy44

So if i understand you correctly, if I sign a loan agreement that is assigned to a bank and secures the note to my new car, that is not a legal contract? I do beg to differ with that opinion.

micosilver

Every finance contract has a disclaimer that basically says:
If the bank turns you down - the deal is off. At that point you can either get your own loan, pay cash, or bring the car back.

This is what we cal a "Rollback" - a car that was delivered, but not funded, and the dealer had either to ask for it back, or to repocess it.

lrguy44

One of the nice things about high end is the lack of roll backs. But it is a contract when funded, but binding to the buyer when he drives off the lot.

jescue

Yes, that is one process I do not miss. When I started selling I had 6 cars come back in a month. Now I have not had 1 in 6 years.

isellhondas

And in my 12 years here, I can't remember having a car come back due to lack of funding.

Never even heard the term "rollback".

nthe

4 years ago when i "bought" my first car, this happened. I ruined my credit in college, but my wife and i had $4000 to put down so i went to a local dealership, told them about my credit and applied. They told me that i was approved for $X and showed my what i could get. Ended up deciding on a 02 civic lx and drove it home that night. 3 weeks go by and i still do not know where to send my first payment (which should be coming up), not to mention they haven't cashed my down payment check, so i call the dealership only to find out they are having trouble getting the deal funded. About a week later they tell me to bring the car back, so i go to my bank to put a stop payment on the downpayment check, but they sent it through the previous day. 2 weeks after taking the car back, i still didn't have my downpayment back, so i go to the dealership and it gets real ugly (this is after they told me each day for the last week that the check would be ready the next day). I talk to the F&I guy first, and he says my check is not ready. i tell him i'm not leaving without my money so he threatens to call the police and walks to the back of the dealership. i go outside to make a phone call, when i'm surrounded by the GM and a bunch of sales guys who look like they all want to beat the crap out of me. Everyone finally calms down, and i have my money back the next day. I still can't believe that after that experience, i've ended up selling cars.

mackabee

Actually what it really means is "Nobody will finance me because my credit is crap. I've already been to five other dealers but I can't take a hint so I'm here now."

When I was new in the biz I had one of those customers. He looked at a 4runner and his credit was crap. It took about a month and we called in a favor to TFS. The guy got approved but wouldn't return my calls. A year later he shows up in a Ford Exploder and wants to trade it on a 4runner. Sorry can't help you. He was so buried it was pathetic.

The only time I saw that a customer used that line and actually bought the same day was a few years later when I knew better. It was a cold evening in November and all the sales folks were inside the showroom where it was warm and toasty. A guy in his mid forties walks in and does the "Who wants to sell me a car today!" routine and everybody scrams. I go to service, others go to the lounge, and others go home. A newbie walks up to the guy and shows him a car. He leaves saying he's going to get his wife and of course we are all going: "Right!" Well lo and behold and hour later he walks in the showroom with his wife and two kids and buys the car! True story, haven't seen that again.

Mackabee

nthe

i've seen it happen once in the 16 months i've been at my dealership. The guy was upside down, had bad credit, but we got him done.

lrguy44

Actually, I had a guy walk up to my desk and say "I want to buy a S/S Range Rover today!" He bought and since I have sold him 2 more S/C Range Rovers (1 was a Sport he did not like). He has become a friend and currently is considering another. So I guess I was wrong.

houdini1

Hey, I wasn't trying to bust your chops, but you asked me to explain. There is nothing wrong with a salesman being a little arrogant. Most good ones are. :shades:

nthe

joel, that a good way for the dealership to protect itself, pretty much fool proof.

I know i'm days late, but i would think the customer would be responsible for the payoff. Basically what would happen if you don't take the new car back, is the dealership doesn't pay off your car, in a few months after missing payments, the bank would try to repo the trade in, and your credit would be a mess.

I heard of a dealer in cali doing this, not paying off trades, and just keeping the extra money. of course he wasn't around very long either.

madmanmoo

Wow, sweet story!

Why did you get surrounded by those guys?

Expound on that story a little!

-Moo

151ranch

Business law is a very big part of the Uniformed CPA exam.

Gee, Snakeweasel, I was sure it was the Uniform CPA exam when I took it...what uniform did you wear to sit the exam?

The law section is now "regulation" and is mostly ethics and tax.

mackabee

It's actually the Uniformed Certified Parking Attendants law. Very big around here.

All this is actually very simple. It's not an enforceable contract until both parties agree to it. In this case the parties are the buyer and bank and not the dealer. The dealer is an agent so to speak of the bank.

Mackabee aka as Perry Mason

nthe

well i think the GM wanted to throw a punch, and at the time i was thinking, yes please do hit me cause then i have a great law suit on top of all this. The GM and other guys surrounded me just to try to intimidate me so i would leave and shut up. see, i'm about 5-6, and 125 lbs at that time and the GM was around 6-2, and maybe 250 lbs.