Stories from the Sales Frontlines

oldfarmer50

"...Our new key..."

I hate those keyless systems. What's wrong with just a regular key? I have the key fob thingy for one car, never used it. It finally broke off and now it's in a drawer somewhere. On a slightly newer car the key had some dumb computer chip in it. If you lost the key it cost plenty to get a replacement.

I hardly ever lock my car. If some dope wants your radio he's just going to break the glass.

joel0622

The after market one only works on Fords with Power Locks. It attatches to the car with an adhesive strip and programs to it just like a keyless entry FOB does.

fezo

My 00 Accord has the controls on the wheel. I think that's my first non-Ford with that feature.

jmonroe

I know for a long time we had the exclusive on that due to patents. I didn't know if that had run out or not.

My 05'and 06' "throw-aways" have controls on the wheel although to activate the system there is a panel mounted switch.

Are you sorry yet that you raised this question?

It looks like you're getting an education about the competition.

jmonroe

tayl0rd

w/ Nav and summer tires in black. What do you have in stock? Might consider other colors. And where are you guys located?

mackabee

Mack, that is something that drove me nuts with Toyota when I was looking at Siennas. The brochure shows exactly what I want, but Toyota doesn't deem to actually make one. Why have 10 models, if they only build 2 for a region?

They actually do build all the models they advertise in the brochure. You just have to wait until they cycle through all the packages in the generation cycle. For 08 there are packages offered that have been on the brochure from the beginning.
Mack

joel0622

Not sorry at all. You got to remember I was in Sales back in the 90's. At that point in time my product knowledge was tops. There is allot from the product side now that I am weak on now, especially since I have gone into the Finance Office.

mackabee

I guess you could say they are no "small potatoes" then.

Mackabee

dino001

Toyota is notorious for "phantom" configurations - ones that you think you may get, but no dealer would actually have on lots.

I remember looking at Matrix couple of years ago. There was basically no way I could get one with base engine manual and full safety options (airbags, abs, etc.), even though it was technically possible to configure it that way, at least according to their website. No dealer in the state had anything even close. You could get either manual with nothing (not even cruise control) or auto with those features, or XRS (stronger engine) - and they had no plans of getting one, either.

The only way was a special order, which meant waiting 3 months with no guarantee of getting one anyway, as Toyotas don't really do orders - just they fit whatever is manufactured - at least so some say.

mackabee

Cheaper and a whole lot more fun! Her husband is the macho type and wanted to show off. When I saw his dominant personality I backed off and let him find the car. I kind of felt sorry for her as she really wanted the Scion. His argument against it was that it's a two door and she has grandkids so where were they going to sit when they visit her? She had told me before he got there that it wouldn't be an issue since they had another four door vehicle they could use for the grandkids. She just wanted to feel young again.
Mackabee

mackabee

They do orders, you just have to go to a dealer that management is knowledgeable the way the ordering system works. I've done three special orders in the past. It takes 3-6 months but it can be done.

Mack

Kirstie_H

We certainly don't begrudge any of our salespeople getting biz from folks in the Forums - I hope they do occasionally. However, we do have a no-solicitation policy which makes it difficult for salespeople to answer questions in a way that would not violate that policy.

If someone were to have a question like that, they might consider taking it to e-mail, especially given that most people who would be open such contact have made their e-mail addresses public in their profiles.

user777

3 to 6 months. :sick:

mackabee

I don't know but when I get inspired I tend to write a lot. I broke it up into two posts as I remember not long ago I wrote a very long one and when I posted it the last third or so of the post didn't post! :sick: It was either edit the post or do another post to continue.
Mack

Kirstie_H

I zapped your message - posting your e-mail address on a publicly-searchable forum is just begging for spam. Just go to the "forums profile" link at the left and mark your e-mail address "public" rather than "private," so that only registered members can see it.

Setting up your CarSpace page is also a good way to mention your profession & the brand(s) that you sell, and though we do not permit phone numbers or e-mail addresses to be posted there, other members can easily contact you through your @carspace.com e-mail, which can be forwarded to your "regular" e-mail.

roadburner

I guess if you have never owned a Ford (the only manufacture to offer the option, at least at one point that was true don't know if it still is) then you would not know how convenient it is.

My dad had a Mark VII LSC(back when Lincoln built at least one car for people who still had all their own teeth). We never used it. Sometimes there's a reason no one else adopts a "unique" idea.

As long as we are on the subject of options, do any other manufactures now have there cruise control buttons on the steering wheel ? I know for a long time we had the exclusive on that due to patents.

BMW adopted it for a while, and my 1999 Wrangler and 2007 MS3 have it as well. I prefer the stalk mounted system BMW used, abandoned, and is now using again: push forward to set/accelerate, pull back to coast to a lower speed, and flick up or down to cancel. And no stupid ON/OFF button!

isellhondas

I know I wouldn't use the keypad.

I don't even use my remotes. They are in a drawer at home. Thye just make my key ring too bulky when it's in my pocket. I've never seen much benefits to keyless remote since you have to use the key anyway.

Yet, some people can't seem to live without one?

Cruise control?? Never bother with that either.

british_rover

Our second newest key...

Land Rover Range Rover Sport and LR3
Land Rover's Range Rover is famous for its ability to endure punishment, and the manufacturer's key fobs are a formidable match. Land Rover's Range Rover Sport and LR3 fobs feature a metal switchblade key housed inside heavy-duty plastic, which allows the fob to withstand a 30-foot drop onto concrete. Further, the fob's rubberized buttons allow it to survive submersion in up to 75 feet of water. There are three buttons on the fob: lock, unlock and an oval Land Rover logo button. The logo button can be programmed by the driver to operate the headlights, activate the alarm or even raise or lower the vehicle's suspension by 4.2 inches for hitching a trailer. Though the Land Rover's fob might not be the flashiest, its rugged design lives up to the vaunted Land Rover reputation for go-anywhere capability.

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/116741/article.html

The LR2 has the newest key that does all the same things but gives you a docking station for the key and push button start.

carhag2000

Kirstie, you muust be my guardian angel. Thank you for protecting the sanctity of my email "in" box. Although I must say wacko posts from edmunds forums would be a welcome change from all the offers to enlarge my body parts and make sure I have mucho stamina for the job at hand.
However I did take your advice and enable forum members to see my email. Thanks again.

gogiboy

"... you can hit the last two buttons and it locks the entire car and arms the security system."

Who would steal a Taurus--even a new one--they're everywhere. :P Oh, I guess a thief might break in to get Joel's Plasma TV.

Both of my cousin's sons work for Ford on the assembly line. (her husband took the buyout back in January). Nice boys, but I sure hope neither of them worked on any part of Joel's Taurus!

Gogiboy

[Deleted User]

You know I never used to use cruise control either, but since my new purchase I use it ALL the time. I find the car going faster than it seems quite often, so I lock it in once I'm close to the posted speed limit! I'm also able to monitor my average fuel consumption and notice it's better when my speed is more constant, not to mention hopefully reducing my being pulled over. Just my .02

gogiboy

Mack--

That may work out east where you are, but we special ordered (i.e. "requisitioned") a RAV4 back in 04, waited 4 months and then were told by our salesman that they couldn't deliver. In my area the Toyota dealers have to go through a middleman, Gulf State Toyota, which is a real pain. The holdup according to our salesman: our desire for side curtain airbags.

The salesman was decent about it it, returned our check and felt bad about the situation. Later we bought a low-mileage 02 Rav4 from another dealer. It also lacked the side curtain airbags, but they weren't available as an option in 02.

Gogiboy

psorter

"Cruise control?? Never bother with that either."

And here I thought I was the only driver left that didn't use one

isellhondas

Using the cruise always made me feel inattentive to what I was doing.

But, I won't use my cell phone while I'm driving either.

tayl0rd

... Later we bought a low-mileage 02 Rav4 from another dealer. It also lacked the side curtain airbags, but they weren't available as an option in 02.

Huh? :confuse:

You gave up on a deal with the one dealership because you couldn't get the side airbags then buy an older version of the same vehicle from another dealer because it didn't have the side bags as an option?? :confuse:

He must've offered it to you for $100/month less than the first joint. :P

british_rover

Cruise Control saves gas.

cole

The LR2 has the newest key that does all the same things but gives you a docking station for the key and push button start.

A docking station? Can you explain that one to me?

isellhondas

Oh, I suppose but I don't care.

Why would anyone buying a Land Rover worry about gas mileage??

jmonroe

I also agree with locking the keys into the car. When we go to the beach or camping, we hid the keys and lock the door. No worrying about losing the keys in the woods or in the sand.

What are we going to do with you forgetful people? Oh yeah, put buttons on the door.

OK…it took a while but I GOT IT (sort of) !! :confuse:

jmonroe

joel0622

Hey, just because the best option your disposable car has is power steering don't be knocking those of us who enjoy the finer things in life.

mattgg1

Cruise Control saves gas.

Not always true.

If you are an attentive driver, using cruise control will lead to decreased fuel economy. You will save more gas by leaving the cruise control OFF.

Now, if you are one of these people who have no situational awareness while driving and pay no attention to what they are doing behind the wheel, then yes, cruise control will save gas.

obyone

"Now, if you are one of these people who have no situational awareness while driving and pay no attention to what they are doing behind the wheel, then yes, cruise control will save gas."

I think that's the norm not the exception.

chikoo

maybe.
But with computers in cars managing the throttle (your pushing the gas pedal is nothing more than a remote command to increase rpm - "drive-by-wire") and the computers is always trying to run at stoich (or close) it does not make a difference to the mileage.

british_rover

I was thinking more of cars that don't have drive by wire. Even then with steady traffic flow and minimal hills you should still use less gas with CC.

RE: The docking station on the LR2:

Most push button smart keys have no where to put the key. You just leave it somewhere on your person or in the car. The LR2 has a little slot in the dash below the start/stop button. You put the key in the slot and it recharges the battery in the key.

bcb1

Here's my dilemna: I want to order a new Tahoe with bright red "Victory Red" paint. That isn't one of the colors offered, and hasn't been since 2002.

However, just last week I saw a new 2007 Tahoe with Victory Red paint! I asked the dealer how? He said that you could indeed order them that way, but you had to do it through fleet sales, and you had to order a minimum of 5 units.

Obviously, I don't need 5 of them. But for anyone that works at a Chevy dealer or in fleet sales, is there any way that an average Joe can order a new Tahoe with non-standard paint code without buying 5 of them?

PS - Yeah, I know - I could just buy the 2007 used one with 11,000 miles, but I get the GM employee discount, and I can actually order a new one a little cheaper than what that dealer wanted for his used one.

snakeweasel

Don’t tell me you’re one of those guys.

I did that once many many years ago. Having that keypad would have helped. I had just bought the car and I called the dealer so see which window would be the cheapest to replace so I could break it and get the keys out. The salesman said he could get an extra key made and get down there in a few minutes. I couldn't wait that long as it stared raining and I needed to get the top up.

See above.

I don't spend all my time inside and spend much time outside around the house. If I am not planning on going anywhere I don't take my keys with me. There have been times like this that I wanted to get something out of the car and needed to fetch the keys. A keypad would have been nice and faster.

Then go soak my wounds in the ocean.

Well here its a lake but aside from it being fresh water you couldn't tell it from an ocean.

snakeweasel

As long as we are on the subject of options, do any other manufactures now have there cruise control buttons on the steering wheel ?

I had a 97 Dodge Caravan that had the cruise control buttons on the steering wheel.

mackabee

It works east and west north and south. Like I said you have to get someone that knows the system.

Mackabee

mackabee

Today is my day off. I get a call from my GM about a quarter till six to tell me the customer's I worked last night on the Sienna are coming in tonight at 7pm to sign up. Looks like we gave in to their demands! They wanted a dvd system "thrown in" even though we are at invoice on the deal thanks to our low price giving business development team. They are buying an extended warranty at $1595.00 so that will help with my back end numbers provided they show up. It's now 7:28 pm and no sign of them. I called the number they left last night and it's a non-working number. The cell phone number does not pick up either. :mad: :confuse: And these folks attend church where I do and when they called in yesterday they requested me specifically. I hope they haven't gotten in an accident in their rush to get here.
Mackabee

mackabee

This one should go in the "inconsiderate buyers" pile. Who remembers that forum?
:P

im_brentwood

My 97 740iL has em as well... didn't Pontiacs as far back as the late 80s have em too?

verdugo

Most push button smart keys have no where to put the key. You just leave it somewhere on your person or in the car. The LR2 has a little slot in the dash below the start/stop button. You put the key in the slot and it recharges the battery in the key.

I don't see this implementation as an improvement of the push buttons. I would agree with that if you had the option to keep it on you. To me, the extra step is not convenient. Either do it like my Passat (you push in the fob and no button to push) or just do regular push ignition.

snakeweasel

If you are an attentive driver, using cruise control will lead to decreased fuel economy. You will save more gas by leaving the cruise control OFF.

Please explain how. Say I am driving to my friends house who lives about 85 miles from me (all but 5 miles is Interstate highway) I set my cruise control to 75 MPH on the highway how does that use more gas? If I set my cruise I will stay at a constant pace and any variance will be practically null. But if I keep my foot on the gas no matter how attentive I am my speed will vary more so and by greater amounts, no one can keep the exact same pressure on a gas pedal for over an hour. Thats what causes loss in gas mileage.

jipster

Having that keypad would have helped.

To me the keypad is like a nerd with a pocket protector... just not cool. I can see where it might come in handy, but it kind of ruins the look of the vehicle... IMO

cole

Exactly right. Watched an episode of Mythbusters where they were examining how much improvement in gas mileage you'd get by drafting a semi. They got significant improvements until the got to the last test: 1 foot from the rear of the trailer. The reason? Even though the semi was on CC at 55mph, the driver of the following car had to get on and off the gas to maintain distance. They actually used more gas that way than not drafting at all...

terrypm1

I wish every car I had owned would have come with this feature. It is very handy as mentioned before.

chikoo

it sure looks good.

but given that people with this feature like to leave the keys of the car in the car, a thief will likely break in to this car than one without simply based upon the fact that he will not have to bypass the immobilizer. He has to just search for the keys and he is good to go!

bronsonb

I have resisted chiming in before now. I bought a used 2004 Expedition last year, and I LOVE having the keypad. We've made use of it a number of times. We went to the local water park twice, and it was quite nice to lock the keys in the car and not have to worry about losing them. Same thing at the neighborhood pool. Plus, I keep a spare key in the console, so I am truly never stranded even if I lose my keys...I just punch the code, I get the spare, and I am on my way.

I don't think it ruins the look of the vehicle at all, and I've noticed that in the new Fords, they've placed the keypad along the window frame of the drivers door in the black trim, so it's even less noticeable.

delta737h

To anyone who cares:

I know that several car sales people regularly contribute to this forum. I certainly don't want to appear pompous and am trying to be very genuine in voicing my concerns. I am troubled and somewhat vexed by the fact that there are so many lease software packages that incorrectly compute payments and the sales tax liability especially for sign and drive leases. Yes, even the finance captives miscalculate sign and drive leases where the first payment is capitalized as well as the sales tax. Some states (e.g., Ohio) compute sales tax on the total payments and this tax is sometimes rolled into the lease depending upon customer preference. The actual lease payment will be larger than the payment used to compute sales tax in those instances where the tax is capitalized. The reason, of course, is that the tax is capitalized and taxed tax is not permitted under the Ohio Revised Code.

My procedure avoids computing tax on tax and emphasizes the need to separate taxable items from non-taxable items. I spoke with someone from the Ohio Division of Sales Tax and they agreed with my calculations but didn't know what could be done to remedy the flawed calculations. It would behoove them to remedy the matter ASAP as they are losing sales tax revenue.

Many software packages use a two-stage lease payment calculation procedure which is inappropriate because it triggers inconsistencies leading to inaccurate lease payments and sales tax calculations. This, in turn, causes lease documents such as lease worksheets and agreements to be inaccurate. I contacted a major lease software developer and they agreed. They also agreed to amend their software in December 2006. To date, they have not implemented the amendments to their software. Hmmmm...

The amount of dollar discrepancy can vary and usually isn't very large. So, who wins? Surprisingly, it is the consumer who is advantaged! That means someone loses. I'll let you think about that. Dollar differences or; who is advantaged, is clearly NOT at issue. What is at issue is the inaccurate methodology used to make the calculations.

I've written a paper entitled Capitalizing the First Payment using the Money Factor Formula that clearly delineates my concerns emanating from inappropropriate lease payment calculations that necessarily arise when using this two-stage procedure and the need to carefully compute the appropriate sales tax liability. Inappropriate or skewed computations only serve to justify the rationale for incorporating standard computational methods in the Federal Reserve Board’s Regulation M paralleling those of its Regulation Z cousin.

I'm simply amazed at the number of people in the car sales business that can't compute payments; especially in those cases where the first is capitalized. I was also amazed to learn that several GM dealerships in the Cleveland-Medina area could not compute a GMAC payment without reliance on software! Some, at least, took the initiative to convert the GMAC interest rate to a money factor to compute the payment and, then, couldn't understand why the GMAC program was giving them a different payment than the one they calculated. Amazing, simply incredibly amazing! I told them that, in addition to using an interest rate (yes, IT IS an interest rate!), GMAC computes an annuity payment wherein the residual value is discounted one month nearer to the present. They had no clue what I was even talking about! At any rate (no pun intended), below is an actual sign and drive (except for title, reg., tag fees) lease proposal that I FAXED to an Ohio Acura dealership...

____________________________________________________________

2007 Acura TSX
Retail Pricing Information

Base MSRP 2007Acura TSX 5 Speed Automatic (CL9687JW)……………………………… 28,090.00
Premium Pearl White……………………………….………………………………………….… 0.00
Destination Charge…………………………………………………………….…………….…… 670.00
MSRP……………………………………………………………………..…………….…...…… 28,760.00

Agreed Upon Value……………………………………………………………………….……… 26,700.00

Amounts Financed

1st Month’s Payment……………………………………………………………………………… 361.71
Security Deposit………………………………………………………………………………….. 375.00
Acquisition Fee…………………………………………………………………………………… 595.00
Sales Tax 6.00% x 35 x 329.77……………………………………………….……………….. 692.52

Capitalized Costs

Gross Capitalized Cost………………………………………………………………….……… 28,724.23
Capitalized Cost Reduction…………………………………………………………….………. 0.00
Adjusted Capitalized Cost……………………………………………………………………… 28,724.23

Residual Data

Residual Factor………………………………………………..…………………….…………. 0.62
Residual Value (Residual Factor × MSRP)………………………..……………….…….….… 17,831.20

Cost of Money/Term

Money Factor…………………………………………….……………………….……….…… 0.00127
Term (months)……………………………………………………………………….………… 36

Lease Payment Itemization

Monthly Lease Payment including Sales Tax…………………..……….…………….…….… 361.71
Monthly Lease Payment excluding Sales Tax………………………………………..……….. 340.99
Taxable Monthly Lease Payment……………………………………………………………… 329.77

Charges Payable at Lease Origination

License, Title, Registration Fees (estimated)…….……………….……………….….………. 120.00
Amount Due at Lease Signing…………………………………………………………....…. 120.00

GAP Coverage Included
Annual Mileage Allowance: 10,000
Disposition Fee: None
Excess Mileage $0.15 per mile
Reg. M Disclosure: NA

____________________________________________________________

Naturally, the numbers were aligned in my word document.

Unfortunately for them, they didn't agree with my numbers. I'm in the number crunching business, they're not. Being a mathematician and actuary, I have complete faith in my numbers as I'm intimately familiar with financial mathematics. I have yet to find an Ohio dealer that can correctly compute sign and drive leases. My best guess is that most sales personnel as well as software providers don't have much experience with this type of lease because it is so very rare. At any rate, I would appreciate hearing the thoughts of those who care from someone who does.

John
Medina, Ohio

PS: I've never been in the car business. I'm just an interested consumer who cares.

toomanyfumes

I really like having the keypad,too,and use it all the time. If I'm outside, don't have the keys and need to get in the car or trunk. I've also locked the car, with the keys in the console, if I'm at work or whatever and need to switch cars with my wife.