Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    Looks like a Geo Tracker.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    It's also available in the middle east and south america. Two door and four door models. The 4runner and Lexus GX are based off of it. The Sequoia is Tundra based. Ssangyong did copy it. The Chinese are copying everybody. MB and BMW are suing over some of their designs.
    :)
    Mackabee
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    Has it been that slow? How about another story about someone with $15K negative equity trying to buy a Hummer for $399 a month... or the one about the greenpea that stole your up ...

    Joel: did that couple with the x-plan ever come back for the Edge? ... or how about a story about just a guy that tried to get a decent price on a Honda :P
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Ya they came back that evening and hooked up. They finally figured out the $21500 OTD was a good price on the Edge.

    They referred another customer to us yesterday and he was as big of a grinder as they were.

    I just got a deal approved for some people who owe $4600 on a 2000 model Saturn. No big deal right? The car is worth $100. Sitting in there drive way on two flat tires and a blown engine, 130K miles.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I got a good one...

    Stopped by a store a friend of mine owns.. independent lot. Guy sells used highline cars.. a couple is in looking at an 03 745Li with about 40k miles.. real clean car, loaded to the hilt, etc. Car's priced at $35k and all 02-03s have 6yr/100k warranties from the factory.

    The guy can't understand why he can't get to a $300/mo payment with no money down. He's also $3500 upside down on his trade.

    The guy looks at me and says "What would you do if you wanted your payments at $300 with your trade?"

    "Well, I wouldn't look at a $35,000 car plus $3500 negative equity..."

    Customer's wife broke out laughing. "I told you there was no way you were getting one of these for 300/mo you stupid &*^%*&^%" (It is NJ after all) You had to be there....
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I just got a deal approved for some people who owe $4600 on a 2000 model Saturn. No big deal right? The car is worth $100. Sitting in there drive way on two flat tires and a blown engine, 130K miles.

    Nice. The question will be how could you have $4600 debt on scrap metal at the first place. Buy Here Pay Here again?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Why do people do this?

    This guy needs to look at a used Neon or something.

    Even if he could get into it, how could he ever afford to maintain it??
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I think he figured if 35K new car could be had for 299/month (you know those 8K/year leases with 3K down), why not used :D:D :sick:

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    The question will be how could you have $4600 debt on scrap metal at the first place. Buy Here Pay Here again?

    Toyota Motor Credit.

    I remember years ago if a person was a $3000 out of equity it was a huge deal. Now days I am not even concerned about weather or not the bank will buy it until Neg hits $10K plus.

    Now we don't look at $$ figures we look at % of advance against cost. So if some one is buying a car that has a $35K cost and want to finance $45500 on it we don't say they are $10500 hooked, we say it is only a 125% advance.

    Any bank worth its salt will lend 120% all day, and the real strong ones will go 140%. I have gotten Ford Credit to buy huge numbers beyond 140% in the past.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Any bank worth its salt will lend 120% all day, and the real strong ones will go 140%. I have gotten Ford Credit to buy huge numbers beyond 140% in the past.

    So when the guy defaults and (many will) they send the hook and get less than half the money back. That's really smart... No wonder Fords is mortgaging its future just to survive and banks finances are in the crapper :sick: .

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    They only do the big advances on good credit customers. All banks have to keep repo rate around 1%
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I guess that means that having good credit does not automatically mean being financially savvy. People may have some common sense and personal integrity (pay bills on time), but not much of understanding how much money thy're really losing by overspending. Makes kind of sense.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Now we don't look at $$ figures we look at % of advance against cost. So if some one is buying a car that has a $35K cost and want to finance $45500 on it we don't say they are $10500 hooked, we say it is only a 125% advance.

    My calculator says that’s 130% advance but I might need new batteries. Then again your calculator or pencil might round off down. :D

    Any bank worth its salt will lend 120% all day, and the real strong ones will go 140%. I have gotten Ford Credit to buy huge numbers beyond 140% in the past.

    When I read stuff like this I don’t know whether I should laugh or cry. :confuse:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • carhag2000carhag2000 Member Posts: 207
    When I read stuff like this I don’t know whether I should laugh or cry.

    jmonroe


    We had a customer here who was an ex NFL player...maybe a development squad guy no one you would know. He loved to trade cars! Like every 6 months. He would hang out at the local country club with our GM and they would hatch harebrained deals then come foist them upon us. Most of the sales staff ran because they knew that the GM and this guy were poison. Ie; eat up most of several days and get a mini or a tag fee to boot. At last gasp this man had purchased from us a 2006 Liberty ( MSRP of 24,700) and borrowed 51,500 on it. I dont know if that is an exact figure but it is as near as I can recall and believe it reflects what this guy did. But man was he cool coming to the country club every few months with a new ride!
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    that's a sad story. how / why any bank or company would loan 51.5K on a product with MSRP of 25K is beyond me. the government should make these companies pay for their greed, not the responsible consumers.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Yes you are correct its 120% not 125%
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    But man was he cool coming to the country club every few months with a new ride!

    They live (and do this) just to hear this sort of remarks.......
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    At last gasp this man had purchased from us a 2006 Liberty ( MSRP of 24,700) and borrowed 51,500 on it.

    OK, that settles it...I'm going to cry. :cry:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    You aren't getting those kinds of advances without the following:

    Debt-to-income ratio in line

    EXCELLENT credit.. 700+ at a bare minimum, usually 720/740+.

    Ford Credit isn't stupid.. they know who will and who won't pay.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Yes you are correct its 120% not 125%

    Are you trying to pull a fast one on me? I said 130% not 120% !!

    Gotta keep an eye on you F&I guys even when we're not being held hostage in your offices. :P

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    My calculator says that’s 130% advance but I might need new batteries. Then again your calculator or pencil might round off down

    It's usually 125% of MSRP... a $35k cost car will probably have an MSRP of $37-38.

    Good thing we have you to keep an eye on us though ;)
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Why??? What direct effect does it have on you or any of the other folks here who are so concerned with how some one else spends there money? These are not ARM loans or Balloons. They are simple interest fixed loans. I am yet hear of a captive lender going out of business due to the auto loans they have made.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Sorry, it is just my natural habit to keep the numbers changing :D
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    It's usually 125% of MSRP... a $35k cost car will probably have an MSRP of $37-38.

    Good thing we have you to keep an eye on us though


    How dare me to think when a number is thrown out it really is that number. Ain't nothin sacred around here ? :confuse:

    Well, since you're giving that kind of as discount...sign me up.

    It seems that banks are very willing to lend a helping hand to people who want to get further into debt. I pretty much knew that but I didn't think it was quite that easy or done like that. Just run the numbers to suit the scheme. :(

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,586
    about this negative equity. Basically, it is just an unsecured loan, usually at a decent interest rate, and for a short term. The NE is the unsecured part, obviously the car secures the rest. Although, unless you trade or total (for some reason have to end the loan), it is all theoretical.

    Putting aside the question of should you ever borrow for normal purchases, most (many?) people carry some balances on a credit card, which again is unsecured debt.

    So, what is crazier? Owing 10K on an 9K car, on a loan with 3 years to go at 8%,

    Or owing 2K on a 16% credit card that you pay the minimum on, so you are still paying off that trip to Taco Bell in 2004?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    "...it is just my natural habit to keep the numbers changing..."

    I knew it!! :surprise:

    A majority of the amateur car buyers might be prepped for the sales guys, but they typically never know what hit them when they walk out of your F&I offices! ;)
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I tell customers when they come in my office that up till now it has all just been talk, now its time to rumble :D
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    A guy at work said you didn't need to know anything about math to do finance. Joel just proved his point.
    :shades:
  • metmdxmetmdx Member Posts: 270
    Not being a 'regular' here, please pardon the intrusion, but I just gotta tell you; after a week from he!!, this is better than watching "Who's line is it, anyway"....

    It amazes me the stories written here, and as a consumer I will be adding my own experience "from the frontlines" soon (I presume the thread is not limited to one side), but I'm gonna do a "Mack" and keep you hanging for a while till the whole process is complete.

    Suffice it to say, if this were a film, the trailer would look like something outta Star Wars; which one you ask? Any one. Complete with incomprehensible dialogue, unimaginable battles, and characters, you swear (if you didn't know better) can't possibly be real.

    I guess the moral of the car buying story (once it's written) is something akin to mining diamonds; you gotta go thru a lot of dirt to find something worth anything :sick:

    metmdx
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    ...but I'm gonna do a "Mack" and keep you hanging for a while till the whole process is complete.

    Oh yeah...give us your best shot. :P

    How about over the weekend when things slow down? ;)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "I'm gonna do a "Mack" and keep you hanging for a while till the whole process is complete."

    Ah yes, always imitated but never duplicated. The sincerest form of flattery! Thank you.
    :blush:
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    As a customer, here's one for you. While purchasing a new convertible, the dealer's three men---salesman, sales manager, and finance officer---failed to list my payoff on my current car in any of the paperwork. I mentioned twice that i was so pleased with the new deal. Ten minutes after arriving home, they called to ask me to return to the dealership to discuss the error the next morning. I checked with my attorney first to see if the car was mine. He doubted that I could keep the car. Trying to be fair minded, I returned the car and got my old one back. The actual car payment, including the payoff, would have been more than I want to pay. The dealership owner was not happy to hear of my experience and has offered a lease or a non-profit situation on a less expensive car. Have any of you ever heard of such an experience? Technically, do you think that I really owned the car when I brought it home? Finally, what would you have done in such a situation---trusting that you are honest and fair professionals? Thanks for listening.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Technically, do you think that I really owned the car when I brought it home?

    No. I'm not in sales but it was clearly an honest mistake. It is unreasonable to expect them to pay off your personal debt for free and there is no hint or suggestion of fraud, i.e. the contract is invalid. Moreover, their offer of a zero profit deal was above and beyond the call of duty. I would have gone with their offer.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I've seen screwups like this before. After all, we're human.

    Sounds like the dealer principal was upset, not so much that he lost the deal but that they screwed up and looked like fools.

    We once ROYALLY screwed up on a special order car... customer wanted a dead base Volvo V70 with ONLY an Automatic in a specific color. The only one like it in the country would have had to come from, no kidding, Seattle. She was insistent on a base model car.. this is someone who would have bought a 240 with vinyl seats, AM Radio, crank windows and no AC if they still made them.

    From Seattle To Florida that is.....

    The shipping would have killed the deal. Well the Lady's lease was up in 45 days, so we call Volvo Finance, get her a 1 or 2 month extension if needed and order her a car.

    Car shows up. It's a 5-speed. I was, shall we say, a little bit displeased. Salesman had followed up with the sales manager who ordered the car with him. It was a salesman who had sold the Lady and her family probably a dozen cars in the 15 years that he was at the store.

    Salesman was ready to strangle the sales manager.

    Sooo.....

    a) Loyal long-time customer is going to be furious.
    b) We look like idiots.
    c) Volvo wasn't willing to extend her lease any further.

    Uh oh.

    So I call her up and I am dead honest with her. I tell her we screwed up and it's going to be at LEAST 10 weeks to get another car.

    Instead of $750 over invoice I sold her the car for invoice. I also threw in her first 3 services and let her use a CPO V70 that we had without leather at no charge until her car arrived. She was a very nice lady who happened to be a Vegan.. she simply would not own a car with leather in it, not my style but I appreciated her position.

    Yeah, it happens, although it sounds like they are trying to make it right. Really, what else can they do? A lot of other stores would have said "Oh well, so sad, tough cookies".
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Ah, Vegan.

    Wears woodens shoes, I'm sure.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    i'm not a lawyer. just married to one. when dealing with contracts, you have to be careful what you sign. by the same token, the seller has to be careful what they let you sign.

    technically i think the car was sold
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    Well, technically the car WAS sold. The problem is the payoff. If it was not listed in the contract then the dealer has no obligation to send it.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    At what point in the process did you realize the pay off was not included. Whenever I see a deal in my office with no pay off I immediately ask for the title to the trade in.

    Sounds as though it is an honest mistake and your attorney was correct. What allot of people do not realize is that the transaction is not complete until the bank handling the contract accepts and cashes the contract. The dealer is acting as an agent for the bank and the contract has verbiage in it stating that the contract will be assigned to the lender listed on the contract.

    I have had major screw ups in my office in the past. 99% of them were understood by the customer. Its that 1% that is a PITA :D
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    do you think that I really owned the car when I brought it home?

    Yep. The guys in the biz say once you drive it off the lot it's yours. I'd get another attorney though if I were you. Your guy seems to hold ethics in high reguard... to bad. :cry:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Actually, the buyer has 30 days to produce a clean title to the trade. If the dealer is not contractually liable for the payoff, then the buyer is. The dealership technically did the buyer a favor by unwinding the deal. Of course, they knew that the deal would never happen. The offer of the no profit deal was more than fair. Mistakes happen.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    " Your guy seems to hold ethics in high reguard...to bad"

    And, you don't?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Yep. The guys in the biz say once you drive it off the lot it's yours.

    Once again I ask this question any time this subject comes up.

    Did you sign a "Subject To" agreement?

    Jipster is correct, you do own the car once you leave the lot with it as long as all the information given that the transaction was based off of is correct and the bank will cash the contract you signed.
    In this instance the information on the contract is not correct therefore the transaction is not complete.

    Just curious, what was the pay off? Are we talking about $1000 or $10,000. I could see the consumer not noticing it if it is a very small amount but how do you miss it if the OTD price is off by thousands of dollars.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    What I was saying was the legal onus is on the owner of the car to provide a clean title. The dealership actually had the high ethics by unwinding the deal. Putting the payoff in the deal merely facilitates the deal. Of course, they also saved a major down the road problem as they could not sell the trade. Over the course of the years I have been involved in many small errors. Only once did a customer try to hold our feet to the fire, and it was a very small error.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    I get what you guys are saying... and I agree. The title to his trade was not clean.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    The offer of the no profit deal was more than fair. Mistakes happen.

    I agree and it’s very upstanding for the dealer to make the offer but how do you really know that it is truly a “no profit deal”? With all the incentives that aren’t so highly published compared to the nationally advertised rebates, unless a buyer hangs out here, I don’t think they’ll really know.

    Us regulars are the only ones who really know your biz, huh? (at least to hear us tell it) :D

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Mercy Mr Monroe, we will have to change your name to Thomas, as in doubting.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Well I guess some times you just have to take a chance on people and trust they are telling you the truth.

    I belive everyone until the peronaly give me a reason not to. I hope people would appoach me the same.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Us regulars are the only ones who really know your biz, huh? (at least to hear us tell it)

    You may find the surveys (car salesmen not as bad as image) and what brands are best at working with shoppers, etc. at the web site. They are all PDF files and I am so dumb I can't get direct links to them.

    http://www.piedpipermc.com/portfolio/press/
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Mercy Mr Monroe, we will have to change your name to Thomas, as in doubting.

    I like my name just the way it is...thank you very much !

    Let's not "change" the subject. How about an answer to the question. Remember, we're supposed to stay on topic here. :P

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

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