Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • david_32767david_32767 Member Posts: 4
    "In other words if we built a car you liked right now you would not hesitate to buy another Ford?"

    CORRECT!!!
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Member Posts: 542
    I like the Tundra. I got a chance to drive one at the NC Auto Expo... Toyota had an awesome off road course with log pyramids and big hills set up in the parking lot and they were letting people drive Tundras, Tacomas and FJ cruisers around the course. I drove that Tundra over logs and up hills I didn't think it would handle (and shot a great video of my buddy driving a Tacoma). GM just had a smaller number of vehicles on the other end of the lot which you could just drive around in. Ford had almost no presence, just a cheesy corporate suit trying to take down people's email addresses to send them a certificate good for $75 if they'd just go to a Ford dealer and test drive something... I signed up but never even got anything at all.

    Funny sight, the local Toyota dealer is moving to what will be by far the largest dealer in the area; they are building it less than half a mile from my house. The funny thing is, every day I drive past it, a little more work is completed... and all of the trucks parked in front are Fords, Chevys and Dodges. I might have to get a picture just for laughs. Joel, want a copy?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Exactly!

    Then the shareholders and mutual fund managers lose iterest and sell and the downhill spiral increases.

    Again, short term band-aid thinking at it's worst!
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    and all of the trucks parked in front are Fords, Chevys and Dodges. I might have to get a picture just for laughs. Joel, want a copy?

    Oh man you have to do that.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I take an 8X10 2 5X7's and 10 wallett sizes please :D

    I had mentioned this before but Toyota used to have a movie on there web site, it was the making of those commercials they have now. It showed how they built the ramps and pendulums to do the commercials. In the back ground all the trucks on the job site were Fords. It stayed up about 3 days then they edited it so you could not see the Fords in the back ground anymore.

    The owner of the dealership here always ask new vendors and advertising people what they drive. If they drive an import he won't do business with you. If you drive a non Ford Domestic he will talk to you and if you drive a Ford you get preferential treatment
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Oh, so I did make a mistake with the math.

    $2,500-5,000 per car is what the Land Rover corporation is making. That's Land Rover of Solihull, Warwickshire England... a company owned by Ford Motor company.

    That's NOT what the dealers make per copy and we're discussing net not gross profit.

    I can think of VERY few dealers that net that kind of money per car.. Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari.. VERY few dealers NET that kind of money per car... more like $-300-0 is the average. You've been around here long enough to know that new car sales are not where dealers make money I do believe...
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Also Ford's total sales have to exceed $80 billion.. 2.4 Million US Built cars, plus Europe, China, Australia, NZ, South America, Canada, Africa, etc... plus Parts, Jag, Volvo, Land Rover, etc..
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... You aren't one of those people who think the car company owns the dealerships are you?

    Of course not. That's plainly evident in the manufacturers' blatant failure to police the dealerships with their dirty dealings, warranty denials, etc.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    The Freestyle doesn't do anything for you? It's a handsome wagon/CUV, IMO. If I had to have something in that class, the Freestyle would be at the top of the list.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I don't blame him. It's not for me, either.

    As he said earlier he's looking more minivan or something like it. The Freestyle (Taurus X) doesn't have anything resembling the space of a minivan.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Total 2006 Ford revenue was $143.3 billion. Through half of 2007, the number is $44.2 billion.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    That's a lot of loot, but we're talking only the Land Rover division. And 8 - 16 billion dollars in net profit is a whole lot of money. Where the heck is it going? Especially considering that Land Rover doesn't financially sponsor those owner outings...
  • psorterpsorter Member Posts: 89
    "Like I told Mack, the Tundra is a truck built for the Metro sexual who really has no need for a truck."

    But isn't that 50% of the truck market? (anyway I though the Explorer Sport Trac/Honda Ridgeline held the metro sexual titles)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Well I was replying to brentwood re Ford total sales.

    Since Ford doesn't break out specific brand revenue but for kicks and giggles, let's extrapolate.

    Through August, Land Rover sold 32,000 vehicles in the US. That trends to 48,000 units for 2007. Now pick an average amount of gross profit per unit - let's say $4k. That works out to $192 million. Not to shabby for LR corporate.

    Now add it the numbers from the rest of the world and it's an even better number.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Of course not. That's plainly evident in the manufacturers' blatant failure to police the dealerships with their dirty dealings, warranty denials, etc.

    As I said "hater."

    You are also one of the people who called me crazy for expecting someone to honor their word when I brought in a special car just for them. Oh and I had to trade a 2008 MY vehicle for a 2007 MY vehicle to get that car plus pay for its transport.

    Ahem
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    You suggested it was the case earlier.

    Warranty denials? Guess again, that's another power that dealers do not have. Of course, when the factory denies a warranty claim, we do get blamed.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Who said $8-16 billion in net profit?

    Try $500 million to $1 Billion.

    And where does it go? How about new Model development for starters.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    That should be covered under gross profits.
  • david_32767david_32767 Member Posts: 4
    EXACTLY.... nothing in the FORD stable has the space of a minivan. The 'crossovers' are more souped up station wagons or dumbed down suv's. MINIVANISH more the utility I need.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... You are also one of the people who called me crazy for expecting someone to honor their word...

    No. I alluded that you were crazy to think a person would pass up on a deal that was $100/month cheaper than what you were offering. And I still feel the same. I don't understand why you call that "hating." :confuse:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It's too bad someone can't police CUSTOMERS with some of their "dirty dealings" too.

    Funny how sometimes blatent abuse gets covered under warranty when it shouldn't be!
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Damn right they ought to net .75-1.5% or thereabouts.

    For the reliability of Range Rovers that’s more than fair.

    Some people have more money than brains and of course lets not forget the “look at me bling”.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... Funny how sometimes blatent abuse gets covered under warranty when it shouldn't be!

    Such as?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I don't see what corporate net profits have to do with that but whatever.

    Range Rovers aren't blingy from the factory they have "understated elegance. We can't control people that put stupid 22-24 inch rims on their cars, cover them with strut grills and chrome everything else on the car.

    You want to talk Bling look at an Escalade.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    It does happen allot. A day does not go by where our shop does not give out of warranty assistance to some one.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Heh... I remember a customer flipping out that we wouldn't warranty the blown clutch on his M3... when we took it apart the flywheel was BLUE. so he comes into my office with the Service Manager and I have to play fireman.

    "Hey, I know you! You were at the school at Road Atlanta last month!"

    "Huh?"

    I throw my BMWCCA card on my desk.. and pull up the website with pics of the track event. He was also a very well known Autocrosser.. problem was he sucked at it.

    "Sorry, we can't warranty clutches that are subjected to track and autocross use"

    "Dude, I never race my car"

    I turn monitor around, show him pics of his car at a track event that I was also at.

    that ended that quickly.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    You know it's funny.. I've owned plenty and sold TONS of Range Rovers... never had the problems that everyone else has had with em.

    How bad was your experience with yours?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    That must have been hillarious. Wonder how many other dealers he went to trying to BS his way into a free repair?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    ahhahaah

    Funny.

    Years ago we warrantied the front diff of a Disco that had blown.

    You could see the hole in the front cover where a rock had punched through and even bits of powdered granite or something around the gash.

    Guy said he was wheeling at night and not paying attention. Rammed the front diff right into a big protruding boulder. It got covered though as Land Rover has a pretty good policy when it comes to off-road damage. Sometimes they will let things slide.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    No idea, but I called BMW NA on it.. my service manager loved me for it.

    I recognized the guy from local autocrosses and track events.. he used to hot dog his car, smoke the tires, smoke the clutch.. really abuse it. And he couldn't hold a line on the track to boot!

    One thing that I love is catching scam artists... any brand that I have ever sold/owned part of the store/etc I always search for my store's name on the usual message boards... you'd be amazed the lies we've found and rebutted.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    How bad was your experience with yours?

    He has never had one.

    He is only speaking from hearsay. Remember he only buys those cheap throw away Hyundais... :P

    Woody had a P38 Range Rover though and it had tons of problems but that was an old body Range Rover and they were very bad.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Sounds about right!

    Rover has always treated me very well, never an issue with warranty claims, even really whiny ones.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    That is really good news.

    But as luck would have it, it is the import winning again, but in the guise of domestics.

    The Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln MKX and Ford Edge are all based on the Mazda6 architecture.

    Talking about which, the funny thing is that even the revered Toyota Camry's latest external looks follow the 2003 Mazda6 design. (this was for you Mack ;) )
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Ahhh, he's never actually owned or driven one!

    Well now, that paints a TOTALLY different picture on things, don't it?

    I had a few iffy P38s and a couple of great ones.. a P38 also saved my life last winter.. was coming back from a treatment and got hit on the LR quarter panel, it was snowing, couldn't recover in time and went in the ditch and flipped. Now I have learned t take a cab to and from the hospital or let someone else drive! I coulda avoided it I think....

    Walked away.

    Who cares about a check engine light.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    the local Toyota dealer is moving to what will be by far the largest dealer in the area; they are building it less than half a mile from my house. The funny thing is, every day I drive past it, a little more work is completed... and all of the trucks parked in front are Fords, Chevys and Dodges. I might have to get a picture just for laughs. Joel, want a copy?

    Laugh at what?

    1. That guys who drive GM/FORD/Chevys are building their own graveyard
    OR
    2. That guys who drive GM/FORD/Chevys are building their competitors Palace?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Oh yeah I probably have about a dozen stories like that with various versions of the same thing. Driver falls asleep hits the jersey barrier wakes up to find the rover up on two wheels just hangs on and that trick air suspension and the low COG force the car back on all four wheels. My customer needs to change his pants but he is alive.

    Similar story but the guy was going much faster and jerked the wheel some causing a roll. He flipped over several times but was fine just bruised and also needed to change his pants.

    Those P38s are tanks but they can't hold a candle to the L322s. Have you ever seen the NCAP crash tests of the new body ranges?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Tell me you're joking, right?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, you've already been given a couple of examples and I can give you lots more.

    A recent Civic SI that had been hot rodded to the point the guy distroyed his transmission. It's easy to tell abuse from wear or a defect. I saw the insides of that 6 speed and I culdn't believe it. We covered it.

    Then there was the S-2000 with a blown engine. The guy had removed the supercharger he had installed but we could tell it had been there.

    When I was in the tool business, probably 95% of the tools we replaced under warranty were due to abuse. Cars get abused too!
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I've seen that many times.

    Back in 2005 we had a 99 M3 that JUST Squeeked in under CPO... think it had a month to go... guy "moneyshifted" it and bent the intake valves.

    BMW Covered it, which shocked me.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Years ago, when I managed a large Sears Auto Center, we used to install mufflers with a "lifetime" warranty.

    I had a guy yelling at me one day because our newly installed muffler on his Buick had blown out. Two mufflers later I found the "problem" when his 17 year old son came along to have muffler number three replaced.

    I took the kid aside and told him..." I don't ever want to see this car in here again with a blown muffler or I'll tell your dad what is happening"

    He acted dumb until I let him know I was an old pro at blowing mufflers..I told him..." It's pretty cool to drive down the street, turn off the ignition, wait awhile and then switch it back on" I got a sheepish grin and I reminded him once again that I didn't want to see that car in my shop for another muffler.

    Then I assured his dad that there would be no more blown mufflers.

    Some of you know what I'm talking about, right?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Holy car look a like Batman!!!!!!!

    Nobody is unique anymore. The average person could not tell the difference between a Lexus and an Edge. Every thing on the road resembles or mimics the competition.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    How bad was your experience with yours?

    Now you got me. Do you have to learn from your own mistakes?

    I know that if I put my hand into a moving fan blade that's a bad thing to do, so why would I do it? Same with car buying, you can't ignore every reliability report that's out there.

    Futhermore, as 'rover' has already mentioned I own a couple of those "throw-aways" that are always toward the top of reliability reports, so why would I want to own something that repeatedly owns space at the bottom of those reports?

    Like I said before, I want reliability not a liability. Those two little letters me a lot. :D

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Of course not. That's plainly evident in the manufacturers' blatant failure to police the dealerships with their dirty dealings, warranty denials, etc.

    Yes, here is another great example of Car dealerships dirty dealings...

    Just read this group of postings to see how dastardly we are.

    Start here

    and read through the end of the thread here

    Now how dare Joel take time out of his day to call GMAC, a finance company he doesn't even work with since he is a Ford dealer, to verify that someone is telling this poor woman the truth.

    I swear Joel if you keep doing things like that I don't know what we will do with you. :surprise:
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Well - it's all true, I'm sure. There are wackos all over the place. There are "other side" stories, though. An acquintance of mine was denied engine coverage on brand new Neon a few years ago because he cranked his car after it stalled on highway. I believe timing belt broke (like it was normal and expected at new car) and he was told that additional damage due to cranking was his fault. Totally bogus. He was stiffed for couple of grand. I would not be surprised if the dealer's garage was double dipping, but what do I know.

    I had a transmission in my WRX rebuilt at 59.5K - first two gearsets and synchros (powertrain warranty is 60K BTW). It's generally known that those went a little faster than usual for that year ('03) - '04s had already redesigned gearsets. They (subaru) paid for it, but I had a full page on my bill saying that the premature wear was actually my fault and they were doing it only because they loved me so much ("one time goodwill policy"). Of course that way they me happy and didn't have to report it in their stats as an actual warranty claim. So if Joe's tranny blows at 80K - well, what da ya want - it has 80K (should last 150K+ but it was your driving, probably not our substandard design).

    By the way - I don't race, I don't do streetlight stuff - my first tires lasted 30K+, as they usually do 20K-, I still have about 50% on my brake pads at 65K miles. My fault was ...drums... I admitted I kept my hand on the shifter when driving in the city. I allegedly introduced unacceptable loads on the shifter. Never mind I have a rest directly under my elbow so my wrist ways nothing, even if kept on the shifter...

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    An old German mechanic telling me the worst thing a person could do on an old Volkswagen was to drive resting thier hand on the shifter. he said he could always tell when someone had been doing that.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    So why there is nothing about it in manuals. THEY SHOULD WRITE IT IN BIG LETTERS

    Plus, when you have an arm rest extension, like I do, there is really no force going on the shifter anymore. Without it - I can understand. But still - some warning would be really nice, wouldn't it?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Don't flatter yourself Robin! ;) Anyone can tell the difference between a Lexus and an Edge. :P
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "It does happen allot. A day does not go by where our shop does not give out of warranty assistance to some one. "

    Well DUH! it's a FORD! :P
    Mack
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,398
    Heh... I remember a customer flipping out that we wouldn't warranty the blown clutch on his M3...

    That joker's first name wasn't Barry, was it?
    Here's another good one: Back when Erik Wensberg was NA's M Brand manager he told me about a guy who claimed his new E36 M3 "just died" while he was cruising down the interstate. It turns out that the E36 M3's ECU recorded the highest rpm reached by the engine. When they interrogated the ECU it showed 9000 rpms. Can you say "Money shift"?

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh I don't know...there can't be a manual that addresses everything. Beside, how many people drive with their hand constantly resting on the shift lever? I know I never have.

    Also those old VW's had no armrest so the entire weight of a person's arm would have been on the shfter unlike in your case.
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