By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I agree, now if some one would just tell me what the topic is
Second, I can't imagine how the buyer wouldn't have realized that a MAJOR error had been made and stopped the proceedings at the time.
That is probably easy to explain. Most of us would like to believe in Financial Fairy. We don't, but we like to. So when $399/month comes across on 40K car and all they say is "give me your car", on which we still have sizable payoff balance, our better judgment would say something is wrong. But you know, how it is - many take "wait and see" stance at that moment and keep quiet until find something that is detrimental to them. Who knows - perhaps I'm a millionth customer and they are throwing it at me 10 grand under
2018 430i Gran Coupe
NEVER EVER leave it to someone else to make these calculations for you. That's like letting the dealer compute your lease payment. If you can't compute a lease payment, you're dead in the water.
John
Medina, Ohio
As a frequent listener to Clark Howard online I keep hearing an ad for a Honda dealership in Atlanta. One of the main tag lines is: "when life gives you lemons you make lemonade." It struck me as a really unfortunate choice of word and phrase given the pejorative power of the word "lemon" when mixed with "car" or "automobile". The point of the phrase was to comment on their overstock of current 07 Hondas that have to be moved to make way for the 08 models. Still... This ad has been running for several months and multiple times during the three-hour program. Certainly the dealership must have approved the spot. Of course, maybe no listener is paying any attention.
I just wondered if anyone else has heard the ad and would care to comment; whether the salespeople here have any thoughts on it, or ads run for their own dealership?
Gogiboy
Yeah, I'd like to know that too. Toyota has 11 different lease programs and are very aggressive in that department. At least our region is. Go to their website www.toyota.com/financial and read over the available programs.
Mack
Mack
Though it's been quiet, we do have a topic devoted to screamer ads. You can find it here: Screamer Ads - Do they work?
You could revive it.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
If the dealer had mistakenly included the payoff twice and everyone signed would you still regard the contract as valid?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Basically, I create a one page lease proposal similar to the one below and FAX/email it to the dealer. It saves lots of time, money, and aggravation.
2007 Acura TSX
Retail Pricing Information
Base MSRP 2007Acura TSX 5 Speed Automatic (CL9687JW) . 28,090.00
Premium Pearl White . . 0.00
Destination Charge . . 670.00
MSRP .. . ... 28,760.00
Agreed Upon Value . 26,700.00
Amounts Financed
1st Month’s Payment 361.71
Security Deposit .. 375.00
Acquisition Fee 595.00
Sales Tax @6.00% x 35 x 329.77 . .. 692.52
Capitalized Costs
Gross Capitalized Cost . 28,724.23
Capitalized Cost Reduction . . 0.00
Adjusted Capitalized Cost 28,724.23
Residual Data
Residual Factor .. . . 0.62
Residual Value (Residual Factor × MSRP) .. . . . 17,831.20
Cost of Money/Term
Money Factor . . . 0.00127
Term (months) . 36
Lease Payment Itemization
Monthly Lease Payment including Sales Tax .. . . . 361.71
Monthly Lease Payment excluding Sales Tax .. .. 340.99
Taxable Monthly Lease Payment 329.77
________________________________________________________________________________- - ______
Charges Payable at Lease Origination
License, Title, Registration Fees (estimated) . . . . . 120.00
Amount Due at Lease Signing .... . 120.00
GAP Coverage Included
Annual Mileage Allowance: 10,000
Disposition Fee: None
Excess Mileage @ $0.15 per mile
Reg. M Disclosure: NA
___________________________________________________
Also, if I have a trade, the trade equity will be identified as a cap cost reduction.
I created a TI 83/84 calculator program that does some fairly sophisticated lease calculations. One mistake I see very often arises in those cases where the first payment is capitalized. In such instances, the rolled in payment does not match the remaining payments as it should. One lease software vendor agreed with me but has yet to amend their software as promised.
My numbers are always spot on and so they can be transferred right onto the lease agreement. Note that the above is a sign and drive lease except for the Title/reg. fees. In Ohio, the total payment is taxed and must exclude non-taxable items. I haven't found an Ohio dealer yet that can correctly compute a sign and drive lease. And so, consumers really need to be careful especially when undertaking a sign and drive lease.
As for early term payoff, it's important for the customer to be able to do this calculation. Otherwise, they risk getting screwed whether intended or unintended. Look at the litigation involving Ford Credit over lease payoffs. Way back when, fund providers were not legally obligated to disclose early term payoffs to customers. Ford was instructing customers to see the dealer. Nowadays, fund providers send customers early term letters. Well hell, if the customer can compute the payoff, then that mnimizes their chances of getting shafted and Ford, as well as the dealers, would have to govern themselves accordingly.
It's a damn shame that we need laws to force people to do the right thing. Unfortunately, we live in a world with a lot of bad people.
And you said a lot more than this.
No wonder I like to keep it simple, no leases ; just buy, write a check, drive that beauty home and wax it.
I wouldn't know how to do all that stuff, so I don't.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Best,
John
Medina, Ohio
It just proves that there are no right or wrong answers when it comes to lease v. buy decisions as it often boils down to individual preferences... and that's tough to argue with.
Best,
John
Medina, Ohio
Thanks for your offer to help. The dealer has called to offer me the same car as a lease. He will pay off the $7,000 owing on my car, waiver the security deposit, and there will be no fees, taxes, etc. out of pocket. The lease is for 4 years at $441 per month. The 2007 Toyota Solara SE convertible listed for $30,281 when we first started the negotiations. The car payment worked out to be $574 a month once the payoff was correctly put into the formula. The deal I thought that I had in the beginning was a car payment of $449 per month. I just don't know if a lease would be ok. My wife and I are in limbo as to what to do. Being retired, we don't want a car payment over about $450 per month. I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
Richard
I forgot to mention that the mileage limit on the lease is for 12,000 miles. Thanks.
Richard
I once traded in a leased Honda Odyssey where the payoff was much less than the trade in amount so we bought the Odyssey and traded it in. And the dealer forgot to charge sales tax on the trade in. I even questioned him twice on it and he confirmed it.
But I did get a phone call a couple days later and it got ugly. The final numbers came in less than the agreed OTD price and when they added the missed sales tax they were way over and then refused to honor the original OTD price. It wasn't fun.
If you lease it, you will own nothing when the lease ends and you will be back where you are now.
If you really want a 574.00/mo. payment, at least you would own it when the final payment is made.
Really, really busy here but getting nothing done. All lookie loos or people coming to see one of my co-workers.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Did you have to pay the tax owed? By the way, you're right. I should have known the deal was too good to be true and that something wasn't right. I just couldn't see it at the time. Guess we were too excited about the convertible. Also, I was sitting there trying to be quiet and get the best deal. I figured they knew what they were doing---my mistake.
Richard
I don't know what the weather is like where you are but it very nice here (Pittsburgh area). If I weren't a serious buyer I wouldn't be shopping on a day like this but I'm sure you guys get this a lot.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Richard
It's a @#!$% when you get old ain't it?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Government job?
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Right here, in town!
Naw, he used to be an Edmunds Town Hall Host!
I filled the tank but couldn't open the hatch. We'll have to send it out to a Chevy dealer next week to get it fixed. The one "good up" I had was a couple of university professors, and I'll say this. If these two were university professors than I'm Albert Einstein. They drove an Avalon xls 07 and a Camry hybrid. Liked the Avalon best and wanted to see if we could work out a deal. Trade was a 93 Caddy Eldorado with 77k miles, clean, nice car. He wanted $3500.00 acv $1500.00 showed him $2000.00 allowance and $1500.00 discount on the Avalon. Difference figure around 32k out the door. Didn't go for it. Said it was more than he wanted to pay. "What did you want to pay?" I asked. "More like $26k." he replied. "26k? that's a 6k spread. How did you arrive at that figure?" I asked. "We drove a Buick Lucerne earlier and we can get it for that." he replied. "They must have big rebates on them." I remarked. "Yeah, they're trying to make room for the 08's" he responds. I'm sensing these customers are more price sensitive than quality minded so I tell them the Avalon is a better car. "How long do you plan to keep your next car?" I ask. "Oh, we don't know." he replies. "Did you buy the Caddy new?" I ask. "No it was used. We've had it for about five years." he replies. I stand up and tell him I'll go see if we can get close to his figure. I walk into sales office and tell the GSM I have an unreasonable offer on the table. I tell him they want to be at $26k out the door and he tells me he will do $29.5k out the door. I knew this was coming as I had a customer earlier in the week on this same car and he didn't bite at this figure. I go back to the table and tell the customers we can't do $26k out the door. I give them their keys and we part company.
:shades:
My dad retired from the California DMV after many years as a Driver's License Examiner. His pension wasn't diddly.
People in the private sector can't depend on pensions. Thye usually make more during thier careers but they need to invest their money carefully.
You can't depend on Social Security.
According to the purchase contract, they actually had me as there was a clause about miscalculating sales tax. And they initially tried to hold me to it. The agreed OTD price was $18k, the numbers came in at about $17700, so when you add sales tax on top of the trade in, it would have come to about $18700. But I sat down with the original sales person and the F&I manager and got them to agree to the original $18K OTD number, but it wasn't easy, all kinds of threats to repossess the car.
Lucky for me the sales person was an elderly gentleman who had been in the business all his life and his word was honorable. He was actually in my corner and it was F&I that were the low lifes.
Are you saying the GSM said he would take $29,500 and you did not give this number to the customer?
Here are a few choice quotes...
"These seats are the most uncomfortable seats I have ever been in. Why would anyone buy this car with these horrible seats. My lexus seats are SOOOOOOOO much better this car is horrible." Said in reference to the LR2 which everyone person I have ever spoken to said they had the most comfortable seats of any car they have ever been in. :confuse:
I asked the woman what kind of Lexus she had and it was a RX300. NOW that car has the most uncomfortable seats of any car I have ever been in. They are completely flat, the leather is too slick and you slide around through every corner.
Couple of hours later...
"Wow I spent over 100,000 dollars on my S-Class and these seats are so much better. What a waste of money." Said in reference to the Range Rover Sport and when we got back I showed him the LR2 which as the same seats. He was blown away by how comfortable they were.
"This would probably be a good car for my daughter in a couple of years. I will have to keep it in mind."
Leaves not ready to buy anytime soon. :sick:
Mack
On used cars, they are SO picky and snooty. I would guess on new ones that they can't afford, they have to find something to complain about.
I usually say, " Well, most of our customers find these seats to be very comfortable but no one car is right for everyone. Maybe a Lucerne would work better for you".
I never try to talk a customer into something.
Once they start complaining too much, I lose interest quickly.
That is a great way of calling the guy's bluff.
And very few will get up and walk.
One of my favorites to do when I sold and even now when I am penciling deals is if a customer makes a crazy offer, like $25K OTD on a $35K dollar truck I will come back with say $40K OTD offer. When they get done looking at me like I have 3 heads and am crazy as hell I will say, "Sir I know there is no way you are going to give $40K and you know there is no way I am going to take $25K, now that we both have our crazy offers out of the way lets get down to business and see if we can trade cars"
That is one of the very few canned closes I use.
I guess my point was not that it was a screamer ad (I've heard much, much worse), but that the dealership/ad company should have been more careful with their language. It's reminiscent of AMC naming a car "Gremlin" although it could be argued that it was completely accurate and appropriate in that case.
I guess hearing "lemon" and "car" in the same advertisement catches my attention in the same way as :lemon: does in someone's posting.
The salespeople here are already often fighting an uphill battle against deeply entrenched consumer (mis)perceptions about their line of work--and at least most of the folks here are informed buyers. A poor, oft repeated radio spot could easily undermine even the most up-front dealership.
Gogiboy