Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I could loan you twenty percent of our sales and still be in the positive...

    How sad is that. :sick: :confuse:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I totally agree on the S40 Volvos! Sad but I guess for the Volvo wannabees, it's Volvo?

    But the reliability on the newer Volvos had totally turned me off on ALL of them!
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,217
    I want an XK! And maybe an XF. And a mansion. And a yacht.

    All I need are those 6 lottery numbers that have so escaped me lo these many years... :(

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    Pretty sad. These figures included a good sales month for XK. They ran a two year employee lease on them for $499 per month. You had to be registered in the Jaguar training site and actively employed for one year. Without that the numbers would have been even worse.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    So what's the deal here? Why would such a brand collapse like that? I read somewhere their quality is up big time, as compared to few years ago. It tops Benz or BMW easily, yet they can't sell? So what gives?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    The quality is outstanding, it just is not on peoples shopping list. The X-Type was a mistake,the S-Type is overdue for replacement at 8 years old. The XK is a wonderful car and sales are good on that model. The XJ is great but the 2008 looks so much like the 2004, which looks so much like the 1998.Some of the decline is intentional-the X-Type is being phased out and is all but gone. The new XF looks to be a hit and had better be. They are taking it upmarket from the S-Type by not offering a V6 and adding some cutting edge features,something Jag is not really known for. The XJ will get a more radical redisign for 2010. We just have to tough it out and wait.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Did you also order my IS? :blush:
    :)
    Mack
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    It's a shame.. I mean, for heck's sake we sold 30k+ in 98 with just the XJ and the XK...

    Jaguar blew it, IMO, with the X-Type, the styling would have worked, but the car was a total dog. No power, bad quality, interior that looks like it came from an econobox with wood stuck on and some leather, you name it they blew it. The S-Type was another.. when it came out it was stuffed with cutting edge technology.. and little has changed since then.. it came out almost 10 years ago!

    And the XJ is a shame.. it's really that good of a car.. IMO they should have made Nav standard from day 1, and advertised it properly.

    The freaky thing about Jags is, all you have to do is throw a buyer the keys to one.. even the skeptics will buy half the time. Take someone out of an E430 and throw them in an XJ8... it's intoxicating inside that car. Then tell them that it gets darn near 30 to the gallon!

    No, they did those stupid "Gorgeous" ads. Fools.
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    I agree- the Gorgeous campaign is exactly the wrong thing at the wrong time,just like the X-Type. Nav should be standard on a car of the XJ class,they were silly with options from day one. Heated seats have finally been made standard and cooled seats available.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Exactly. Got a 2000 740iL outside the shop right now... 8/99 build date, it's got Nav as standard.. the car is almost EIGHT YEARS OLD!

    BMW had it standard before you could even get it on a Jag.. sheesh
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    On 1999 Odysseys. Didn't get much call of them but they were available then.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I have a customer with a grey-market 1995 750i (NOT an iL, he's sick, he federalized it).

    It has Navi... heck, Oldsmobuicks could have had it in 95.. and my 97 740iL has it (Granted I retrofitted it but it was available).

    Jag was also way late with Bluetooth among other things.. you couldn't get Navi that wasn't text based until 2004 in an XJ... welcome to the 21st century...
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    That begs the question of what are the odds of losing an tranny or engine after the factory warranty expires but before the extended warranty expires? I would expect that few cars would have such a breakdown during the period covered by the extended warranty.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The freaky thing about Jags is, all you have to do is throw a buyer the keys to one.. even the skeptics will buy half the time. Take someone out of an E430 and throw them in an XJ8... it's intoxicating inside that car. Then tell them that it gets darn near 30 to the gallon!


    God is that the truth. I have a lot of CCBA customers and some of them are car people and some are not really.

    I desperately need to get a contact at one of the local Jag stores for bird dogs but the people I talk to never last that long in the dealership. Whenever I have someone that is looking for a replacement executive sedan type car or a sporty GT I recommend jags. I had a guy about a year ago who had a lease ending on a 2004 M5 and didn't like the new body M5. I told him to get a XJR and he has never been happier. Only thing he wishes it had was a manual available.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    If the car has a 5 year, 60,000 mile powertrain warranty and the extended warranty is 7 years or 100,000 miles, you would have a two year or 40,000 mile window.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    True but most failures tend to be when the car is fairly new or rather old. Most cars out there if they make it to 25-30K miles with no real issues they should make it way beyond 100K miles before any real issues.

    In short that 60-100K miles is the period where a car (if properly maintained) is least likely to have major problems.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Probably true and the warranty companies know this. Otherwise, the cost of the extended warranties would be prohibitive.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I shouldn't say this around isell but my 02 Ody did its tranny thing right in the sweet spot - 63K. Now I did have an extended warranty but it didn't much matter. The dealer was already starting paperwork to cover it before I pulled out the warranty. The failure was unfortunate but it didn't cost me a dime and the inconvenience factor was limited to the time it took to limp on in to the dealer to the time the rental arrived.

    I now have an 04 Ody EX that I bought as a CPO (only moved up two years, but dumped 90K+ miles in the deal). The only thing I'd worry about on warranty are the motors for the sliders. Don't think I'm too concerned.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    In theory only. Most people average 12-15k miles per year. So let's take the 12k per year first. After the 5 year powertrain is gone they really have a 24k mile 2 year warranty left or a 74k mile 7 year warranty.

    The ones that drive the 15k per year exhaust their factory warranty after 4 years. The next three years they will drive 45k miles so it works out better for these people. So these people have an extended warranty thats' 2 years 30k miles. In effect the extended warranty is a better buy for the 15k mile per year driver.

    :shades:
    Mackabee
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah, a few of these caused trouble which was an embarrasment to Honda. It was a small percentage that got tremendously overblown in these forums.

    Honda did the right thing and stepped up to the plate and covered these to 100,000 miles.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    We have an 03 Ody that had its tranny replaced at 66k miles. Looks like American Honda paid the bill as I see a NC on the charge column of the repair order. Was traded at the Toyota store on a Sienna. Honda did extend the factory warranty on the ones with this problem.
    :)
    Mack
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Well, as isell pointed out American Honda certainly stepped up to the plate and tooke good care of folks that had the misfortune to run into that one. My SIL and her family have an Ody more or less identical to ours except for color. It has a ton of miles and nary a blip.

    Funny thing on Siennas. When we bought our first Ody we were comparing against the old, smaller Sienna. We loved the Sienna but it was too small for our needs. We tried the new ones and didn't like them nearly as much. I do believe that just falls into matters of taste. I certainly wouldn't tell someone who bought a Sienna " You did WHAT??!!??"...... As they are finally culling the misfits out it's getting harder and harder to find a bad van.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    Yes I did, but then Andy Roddick took it for the US Open commercials :P
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Yeah, a few of these caused trouble...

    A few? LOL. You always seem to be minimizing this Honda problem with Ody transmissions. There usually aren't recalls involved, and class action suits, when only a "few" transmissions are involved. ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    My brother's Ody's transmission failed prematurely as well. Ironically, our old '94 Dodge Grand Caravan ES 4-speed ECT was still shifting fine at 162K when we sold it last January. However, I know I was in the minority on this one. I personally changed ATF every 24K or 2 years, and our driving style is very conservative, so perhaps that combination - and a bit of luck - helped to extend the transmission's life. I recently checked with the buyer, and she said the transmission is still fine - now over 170K!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Somehow, I knew you would be there to chime in.

    MPV getting a bit cramped and underpowered for you?

    The recall was to check for possible problems that could cause trouble down the road. Honda did that on their own.

    Our shop checked HUNDREDS of them and found ***two*** that "might" have had a problem and those transmissions were replaced. Who knows how those two may have been abused or what they may have towed?
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Well have him bring it back ASAP! :mad:
    Mack
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Wrong! Land Rover X plan is invoice + 4% + RAG + Destination + D&H + Tax + Title fees, registration, liscence. Also, on a hot model the dealer does not have to offer X plan. D&H is whatever the dealer normally charges.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    So what's the deal here? Why would such a brand collapse like that? I read somewhere their quality is up big time, as compared to few years ago. It tops Benz or BMW easily, yet they can't sell? So what gives?

    Regardless of what the guys in the biz say about styling being the problem, (the guys in the biz aren’t the ones buying, customers buy) customers know it is a lack of quality. Once you have the stigma of poor reliability it sticks with you quite awhile. Just ask Honda and Toyota, they went through it and it took awhile for them but it’s paid off handsomely, hasn’t it?

    Hyundai might actually be their equal now but the main stream buying public isn’t convinced yet and it will probably take a few more years but they better not mess up, even once, or they are back to square one. Honda and Toyota could have a dozen cars blow up, for no apparent reason, killing all occupants and they will come through it just fine. But let this happen just once to the guy that’s trying to overcome a poor legacy and he’s done.

    Yes, most people want reliability not just styling. When your upscale stylish sedan is more comfortable in the service bay with others of its kind than in your garage, it’s a tough sell to convince yourself that styling is the way to go and what’s worse is you have nothing to show off in. :(

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I agree with you. But why then Benz is still growing sales while they are consistently at bottom of reliability charts of all rating organizations? And it's been a while now since they manufactured a problem-free model.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    But why then Benz is still growing sales while they are consistently at bottom of reliability charts of all rating organizations? And it's been a while now since they manufactured a problem-free model.

    I don’t have an absolute answer for you. However, I learned years ago that only a rich man can afford to buy poor quality tools. Maybe this applies to cars too when the snob appeal is high enough.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    when the snob appeal is high enough.

    LOL, that was my first thought too, the "look at me factor"

    We had a neighbor who tried to make people believe he was something he really wasn't. Just before he was forced to sell his house, the repo man came and towed away his Benz! Sad but he planned it all out himself...
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Those numbers are a little misleading. We had a record month last August because it was when Ford had the 0% for 72 month sales event going on. We sold a ton of new cars and trucks.

    You folks that think Ford is going to tank absolutely kill me :D
    I wonder what we will do with our new $20,000,000 store when Ford shuts down :D

    As far as I am concerned we are Appalachian State and the imports are Michigan right now. The game kicks off in the next few years :D
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,298
    "...But why then Benz is still growing sales..."

    Because some people have more dollars than sense. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I wonder how much those figures drove the price tag up?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The deal is already done...

    I have inside information but I don't know who the buyer is yet or what the details are. No one will talk to me about that.

    Poor Ford they are so convinced that Jaguar is toast they they are willing to dump Land Rover that has set record sales for the past three year running and makes between 500 million and ONE BILLION dollars of profit annually on a little over 200,000 sales worldwide.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I wonder what we will do with our new $20,000,000 store when Ford shuts down

    Get in line for a 'Yota franchise? :P

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • david_32767david_32767 Member Posts: 4
    Joel:

    Glad you drank the Ford Blue Oval Kool-Aid. Hope the Ford Flex is the savior that your need, The F-150 isn't trounced by the Tundra( who is making a MONSTER push) and I hope the union negotiations go well.. I don't think you go out of business per se but I dont think your a top 3 or 4 car manufacturer either in a few years.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    If being out sold 4-1 just by Ford not counting GMC is a monster push I am not to worried. The last thing I am worried about is the Tundra. Real truck buyers for the most part will continue to buy Ford and GM trucks. Like I told Mack, the Tundra is a truck built for the Metro sexual who really has no need for a truck. Smoke and Mirrors advertising will only take them so far. Until you build Super Duty trucks you are not in the truck business, your in the butt hauler business.

    The Fusion and Edge will help bring us backed to the promised land along with the Flex.

    The new Focus will be a good seller to as long as all consumers are not blind like Mack is :D

    The new Sync system alone will get people in our doors who had normally not even considered a Ford.

    We were talking last week in a Managers meeting about needing to find a buyer for all the older imports we are trading for now. I can remember in the past we could go a month or two and not trade for a Honda or Toyota, now we trade for 10-15 a month for the last 5 or 6 months. The majority of those have been on Edge and Fusion sales.

    Product is not our problem, the problem is reputation. Ford is living proof that it takes years to build a good reputation and minutes to loose it.

    We will have another down year next year I would guess then the surge will begin. The buyouts and plant closures were not cheap.

    I just keep adding names to my list of people I get to say "I told you so" when the time comes :D
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ...Land Rover...makes between 500 million and ONE BILLION dollars of profit annually on a little over 200,000 sales worldwide.

    Wow! :surprise: "Overpriced" doesn't even begin to describe that!
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    Well as someone coming from an 06 Toyota to an F-150 I can say I am sold. The big difference in fit and finish,interior,and ride quality have vanished. I did look at the Tundra but thought it was ugly. I think the big Toyota advantage is not as big as it was- time will tell.
  • david_32767david_32767 Member Posts: 4
    "Product is not our problem" sorry for me personally it is. I am a past Ford owner. Bought an Escape against everyones advice the year it was launched. Actually had to wait for factory delivery. LOVED IT. Family grew to big and went to an Expedition.. .. gas got too expensive. I like Taurus X and FUSION but need something more 'minivanny' at this juncture of which it's safe to say Ford and minivans no longer mix. I think the FLEX is my answer but I am a tad too early. I find the offerings of Ford products doesn't fit my lifestyle at all. Most of my friends in the same situation gravitate toward Odyssey's and Sequoia's. Looking for that Ford to fit my needs...
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    0% for 72 month financing seem to me like short term thinking at it's best.

    Now what? These "quick shot" incentives simply train customers to expect and demand this all of the time.

    Who REALLY pays for the zero interest?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    That's $2,500-5,000 profit per unit.

    They make $500,000,000-1,000,000,000 on sales of what, 200,000 units at probably an average of $40,000 each... that's $80 BILLION in sales volume per year.

    Damn right they ought to net .75-1.5% or thereabouts. :confuse:
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    So its not so much the product but the selection. It sounds to me like you were pleased with all the Ford's you owned. In other words if we built a car you liked right now you would not hesitate to buy another Ford?
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    What's wrong with profit? Good for them. Too bad it doesn't cover the bleeding at the other Ford premium makes :sick:

    What do you think the profit margin is on one of those Louis Vuitton bags that so many women carry around? Everyone has a choice, don't like the price, buy something else.

    At the end of the day it's good for competition. If profits get too big, others will gun for it and everyone steps up their game.

    Edit: Now that I think about it, I bet there is more gross in a Hermes handbag than many cars.... kinda sad :sick:
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    In other words if we built a car you liked right now you would not hesitate to buy another Ford?

    That's my biggest problem with Ford right now. Nothing appeals to me ...
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    Who REALLY pays for the zero interest?

    At the end of the day, the Ford shareholders do with lower returns and depressed share prices.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    So, $2,500 - $5,000 per unit keeps the lights on at all the dealerships, pays for those little "outings" that you guys have for the customers, pays for ad campaigns, pays salaries/commission to coporate and dealership management, office staff, sales staff, etc, pays for benefits, insurance, and on and on? I doubt it.

    And your math is off. Forty thousand dollars X 200,000 = $8,000,000,000. Not $80,000,000,000. I don't even think Microsoft makes $80,000,000,000 a year, and they move waaaay more overpriced product than Land Rover.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    2,500-5,000 of profit per unit for Land Rover corporate not the dealerships. The dealerships aren't owned by Land Rover corporate or at least the majority of them aren't. Manhattan is a Ford owned Company store.

    That is the profit that Land Rover corporate makes off the dealers. For example on a Range Rover they might sell us the car for 71,000 dollars or so and we sell it to someone for 76,000ish. I have no idea how much it costs Land Rover to make a Range Rover and that number doesn't really matter because you have to pay for warranty claims, occasional incentives(we don't have many of those) business builder, etc.

    You aren't one of those people who think the car company owns the dealerships are you? :surprise:
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