Stories from the Sales Frontlines

13243253273293302003

Comments

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    We will occasionally take sales calls off the floor and tell the receptionist to route them only to a manager. Then when the customer comes in who ever catches him helps him.

    We do this when the sales force starts getting lax on logging and tracking sales calls. Though I would bet we loose 10 sales a month from people not handling a sales call correctly.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Personally, I don't sell the car. I almost never wrote gross loser deals, I never saw the need. Why not just give the person $100 and tell them to have a nice day?

    Now, if I have a pink leftover car in march, that's different. But I work my deals differently.. it's pointless to me to spend tons of time giving a car away, why work foolishly? If I am going to write a cheap deal I will write it quickly and move on.

    Also, those are fees that we do not see a single penny of. Any advertising fee that you see printed on an invoice is what the manufacturer charges us for their advertising, it goes straight to the manufacturer. Destination is what the manufacturer charges us to ship the car to our store and invoice and MSRP on Destination charges are the same dollar amount, there's no markup there.

    As a side note, destination charges are uniform, even for the dealer that's across the street from the factory. Cars used to have a West coast and East coast price, with prices out west being higher because of higher transport charges. Washington fixed that.

    Neither of those two items are any income for the store. In fact, advertising fees are nothing more than a way for the manufacturer to shrink our product margin.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Tell your sales people they should be grateful they have sales calls. Like I said, here we never get them. I used to sell at least 4 or 5 off of phone ups.
    :cry:
    Mackabee
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's a terrible system!

    Most of my business used to come from the phone. I rarely took an "up".
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Do have any proof that you are getting more sales now then they were before? If they are is it enough to justify paying the appt setters?
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Excellent response. Many of us will talk ONLY to a salesman and not an airhead paid to just answer the phone.
  • nvreadernvreader Member Posts: 11
    From a person on the outside looking in,I'm very interested to know how a dealership "really" works from someone who is honest about it such as this poster. Also, is the TV show "King of Cars" on A&E pretty close to the real thing?
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    "Any advertising fee that you see printed on an invoice is what the manufacturer charges us for their advertising, it goes straight to the manufacturer."

    I was wondering if Jeep's "CMA Chrysler Marketing Assistance Charge 2" is the same thing? Do I stand any chance trying not to pay it?

    TIA
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    Dude... what the heck are you doing here! Have a few tropical drinks and eat some of that delicious Opakapaka. If you are really bored, go for a hike in the rain forest or up the volcano. Have dinner at the Haliimaile General Store.
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    I agree. I don't like being handed off and have to explain everything again or talk to someone that can't answer questions. I called one dealer and asked the guy if he was new, since I did not see him on the website. He was a BD guy, not is sales. I guess they try to pre-qualify the calls.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    If I am going to write a cheap deal I will write it quickly and move on.

    Hey 'jipster', are you listening? :shades:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    King Of Cars set the reputation of the car business back 10 years.

    The way our dealership really works is that we start every deal trying to make as much profit as possible. We then try to find out what a customers hot button is. Payment, price, trade in, difference, or bottom line. Once we figure that out that is how we negotiate. If it is payment we try to get a credit app as soon as possible in the process to see what kind of customer we have. If you hot button is $400 a month then we need to see what kind of rate you will qualify for to get there.

    Once the front end is agreed upon you come to the finance office where we present you with a menu, it show your rate and your payment then 4 different payments with different warranties added to the loan. You are presented and explained to each of the warranties. You circle and initial the payment you want and the paper work is completed.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    ever seems to believe me when I say that we don't really make money on new cars.

    Before I start crying and write a check to cover your unbearable pain of selling those terribly profitless new cars... ;) Oh - wait, there is a solution. Stop selling them. You can then fire salespeople, so there is no more cost, you can a store next to you may actually charge higher price, as competition goes down (and hire those laid off by you). Everybody wins ;)

    Why is that you guys have to stress you don't make any money, yet you keep selling, your dealerships keep growing and everybody keeps their spirits up? Can't have both the same time, can you?

    Besides, it's not my concern whether or not there is a profit, enogh profit, how it is distributed between sales force and owners, what are components of the gross, net, etc - other than of course figuring out lowest possible amount you would accept before saying "thank you for your time, please don't visit as any time soon" :P . Of course your job is to figure out maximum amount after which I may say "Thank you for your time, don't expect my call any time soon". If those max/min are in right place, there is a sale - if not, well "Thanks for your time...".

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    He was a BD guy, not is sales.

    Help me here, I need an education. What's a BD...BIG DOPE ? :confuse:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Why is that you guys have to stress you don't make any money, yet you keep selling, your dealerships keep growing and everybody keeps their spirits up

    Because you have to sell new cars to keep your franchise. Belive me if Ford gave us the option to take our entire wholesale in new trucks and SUV's we would be more then happy to do it that way. But they don't give you that option.

    All new car sales do are support your fixed op's. The more new cars you sell the more cars you have to service, the more trade ins you have to sell. They are like a neccassary evil I guess.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Brentwood ,

    NICELY PUT :)
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    There is an Asian Family hear right now who has been dogging a salesperson since we opened. The negotiations are going on 5 hours right now. I thought he had the deal about an hour ago but then they threw a trade in to the mix. What makes it even funnier is that they are a plan customer.

    They spent an hour negotiating over the fact that they were not going to pay sales tax, another hour wanting the 0% and the rebate, and the rest of the time negotiating the plan price. I am sure the trade should be good for another hour.

    It is hilarious. I hope I get to do the paper work if they close. It should be a real hoot. Usually folks like this try to renegotiate everything once they come in to finance
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    The way our dealership really works is that we start every deal trying to make as much profit as possible.

    Thank's for being honest. I'm sure the regulars here know that but it's good for a newbie to hear it from a guy in the biz.

    Once the front end is agreed upon you come to the finance office where we present you with a menu,...

    And this is when you get your piece of him, right? I hope you have some good hot fresh stuff on that menu to offer. Not just the same cold stale items we're all tired of spitting out. :)

    Seriously, how long does the average deal take at your store, not including time spent in F&I?

    I'm trying to give 'jipster' an education.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    We make money on new cars!
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    One and the same thing. The only way not to pay it is to buy a different car. Remember, these are supposed to be transparent for the customer, the dealer's actual invoice is nothing more than an internal, manufacturer-to-dealer billing invoice.

    Now, reality is that a lot of dealers make these public, but the fact remains that the definition of a dealer invoice is for the manufacturer to show the dealer what he or she is paying for that car.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Does anyone else think it's just plain rude for a customer to ask to see an invoice?

    I mean, it's not difficult to find this out on their own but every once in awhile, I will have a customer actually ask.

    Would they do that in a furniture store?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I've said for th 12+ years I have been in the car biz the exact same thing...

    New cars are a necessary evil. Period. However... you have to sell them to get the franchise.

    A franchise gets you:

    Banks. Lots and lots of banks. This is why the new car stores can get people "bought" that the independents can't a lot of the time.

    Service and Parts. This is where we make money. Kind of like movie theatres who make their real money off $6 bags of popcorn, $4 sodas and $3 boxes of Junior Mints.

    Used cars. We sell used cars and make money on them. Some of the most profitable dealers that I know sell more used than new, it always worked for me.

    So it's a give and take, but the net margins for a typical franchise store are between 2-4% net pretax.

    Seeing as service labor is 70-80% gross profit and the markup on parts is 30-40%, it doesn't take a slide rule to figure out that new cars don't make you much.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I totally agree and ya know I never got it.

    Some nitwits started doing it and it snowballed from there. I remember someone asking to see the invoice on a new Gallardo.

    OK, sure.. why not. Sticker is $200k, invoice is $180k, you're paying $200k. What's to know?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    That's what is accurate if you want to run your store like a 3-ring circus. I think that "Chop" personifies a lot of what's wrong with the car business.... it's embarassing to be honest.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    The negotiations are going on 5 hours right now.

    If you plan to answer my question in post 16794, please don't factor this one in. Anomalies only tend to skew otherwise good data. :D

    It is hilarious. I hope I get to do the paper work if they close. It should be a real hoot. Usually folks like this try to renegotiate everything once they come in to finance

    Are you going to finish this in one episode?

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Here is what is on the menu today. By the way this is an older menu and the warranty description does not note that the price includes all your maintenance for 36K on new 07's and 60K miles on 08's, and the price of the gap is supposed to be $595 not $520 on the last package.

    Now you tell me how a person can look at that menu and then walk out of an F&I office saying that the dealer tried to sneak a warranty in in or that they bought something they did not want. There is no way to make it any clearer

    image

    As far as how long it takes???????????? I would say the average deal from greeting to close is about 90 minutes. That is considering the customer knows what they want but still goes on a test drive, and needs to have a trade in looked at. if it is a straight sale with no test drive it can be as little as 10 minutes
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Well - that's the price of calling your place "Joel's Ford" not "Joel's used car store w/garage". Since people would rather to go to former, than I guess even if your profit is total zero, it still bringe added value. I would not call it necessary evil then - perhaps cost of doing business.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Does anyone else think it's just plain rude for a customer to ask to see an invoice?

    I do and that's why I NEVER do it. With all the information that is available from everywhere, why does a customer have to ask or think they have a right to ask? Also, I don't think that the typical customer who would ask, would believe it if it was shown to them.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • editor2editor2 Member Posts: 64
    Yes, I do think it's rude, and I'm a buyer and would never ask. I have the right to do the best research I can on my own, but that's the limit of my rights vis a vis having information on your business.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I would have jettisoned them after about 30 minutes. The moment someone starts trying to get out of paying taxes I always let them go. I will help someone pay less tax by registering the car in the most favorable state if they have dual residency but that is all I am going to do.

    A plan deal should go like this...

    1. This is your plan price and this is how I figured it out. Show them the bulletin on the plan to prove that if they don't believe it. Some people seem to think that X-plan is some amazing price that will blow them away. X-plan price on a $82,250 MSRP Range Rover is about $77,900 dollar plus tax.

    2. I rarely have special interest rates to offer anyone so that isn't an issue. If it ever was the bulletin would come out again and that would be the end of the discussion.

    3. The trade value is the trade value and we print out a sheet from the Galves website that shows what the value of the vehicle is and what we are offering them for their car. They arent necessarily the same thing as we are only using Galves as a guide so the amount offered might be above or below Galves.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Also what the majority of us are talking about is front end profit. If we sell 40 new cars in a month and I sell 30 warranties on those cars then I absolutely love the new car business :D
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I guess at some point it gets personal. You have 5 hours invested in a guy and you hate to get nothing out of it, and you surley do not want to have to listen to crap from your fellow sales people about burning what is now 6 1/2 hours and not closing the deal Right now the Manager on the deal just went in. I think we are back to wanting a discount off the Xplan :D
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    See, I never got that nonsense.. the desk should have blown them out hours ago... Maybe I lack the patience, but I would have shown them the door.

    A bad survey is a certainty with people like that, not worth the aggravation.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Here is what is on the menu today.

    Now that is some menu but I'm still going to spit it out. Thanks anyway. ;)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Oh come on ya'all don't tell me that in all your years in the biz you have never seen or been involved in a marathon before. We have a pool going now on who can close them. 4 of us have thrown $20 in the pot. I get my shot here in just a second after they bring me the folder and the figures. The rule is that you cannot go below $21500 on the car there on, if you have to drop it below that figure then the pot does not pay.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I am with you I would have blown them out a long, long time ago. We work our own deals for the most part so I would have walked them without even talking to anyone else most likely.

    Not worth it for the bad survey either as I am just a couple surveys away from qualifying for the top level and getting a BIG check retroactive to the first of the year.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    OK this is the funniest thing I have seen in a long time. These chuckle heads just offered $19K OTD, manager said no, they then got up and started to walk out the door, when no one tried to stop them they just stood at the door with lost look on there face, stood there for a couple minutes and then sat back down in the salesman's office.

    Classic stuff
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Perhaps the word "sneak" is inappropriate. How about "push"?

    I could pick apart every component of you "value packages", but let me just say it politely here "Thanks but no thanks" for all but "Premium care", which might be of potential some value. And can I have it without GAP?. No, lets look at it close, shall we? How much is standard Ford warranty now? 5yr/60K powertrain and 3/36 everything else? So we add whopping 1 year/15K miles for former and 3/39 for latter parts? But wait - we have probably nice list of exclusions - you know all hoses, belts, anything that actually breaks on the car. Or better - it actually lists all the covered parts - as many as 500. How many items does a modern car have? three thousand, or is it five? But you say - it's covered by your "Premium care" maintenance. How long? Oh - it also conveniently stops 3/36, so besides wiper blades, oil changes and one fluid change, what else do we exactly get before 3/36? Oh.. zip? I thought so, too. ;)

    Again - it looks to me that nice $1800+tax doesn't buy that much - or does it?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Oh ok that might worth it just for the sport then as long as you aren't really busy.

    Is the salesman losing out on business because of these people or are they about the only ones in the showroom?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Hey I posted that menu for Jmonroe to look at not you. :D

    Folks that tell me stuff in my office like you pointed here are my favorite customer. They usually end up buying something once it is explained to them. They are the second easiest close. The reason being is that once you explain it to them they have the brain capacity to see value in the service contract bundled with the maintenance plan, Hell just the 30K Maintenance by its self is an average of $400, and that does not take inflation into account, who knows what it will be 2-3 years from now.
    That is unless they are the type that pride themselves on saying they never buy any warranties, then you just can't talk to them, so I just circle decline for them and let them sign.

    The easiest are the ones who have had the maintenance plan before, they sit down in my office and tell me they won't ever buy a car again with out one.

    I don't have to "push" anything on anybody.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    So not so evil, after all - is it?

    The fact that front sales people aren't paid for it properly cause the owner chooses (and they agree on it) to exclude substantial part of the total gross from commission base, is a compensation issue. It's really not my concern that the front salesperson was not paid on mop&glo, rust& dust, warranty, GAP and financing.

    So saying they make no money just because difference between sales price and total cost of acquisition came up to negative after inclusion of all indirect costs, is manipulation of truth. New cars provide a convenient and powerful entry point for making money on related products. It's simple as that - fact that front sales staff is not paid on those additional items is a problem, but it's industry's problem, not mine.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Some stores do pay people on back end profit though or work it into some kind of bonus program.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Na, we never do crap on Labor Day except sit around hoping we close early. I am getting ready to type up our third deal of the day.

    BTW Our dynamic duo just walked on the $21500 figure. I never even got an opportunity. :cry:

    $21500 was X-plan + tax - the rebates, they took the trade out and raised to $20K.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    What car were they on?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Entry Level Edge
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    How have those been doing? I am starting to see them around a fair bit more and from what I am read them seem like good cars just a little on the heavy side with slightly weak brakes.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Why is it, being careful here....some people from different parts of our planet seem to think they shouln't have to pay sales tax?

    Some "people" have to be thrown out before they will buy. They simply don't believe there is any more money in a deal until they get thrown out.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Picked up tremendously in the last 45 days. I believe they are going to become a staple for us. The only people I have heard complain about the weight are folks who are not driving one. Everyone we have sold so far has been ecstatic with it and up to now we have not had any new launch bugs pop up.

    Same with the Fusion, the only thing that kept us from selling 30 of them last month instead 15 was the fact that we did not have the inventory.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Isell, I guess they figure that if they are not paying income tax on all that cash money they are sending out of the country why should they have to pay sales tax on the money they are spending here. :shades:
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    The last two times that I bought a car, the salesman volunteered to show me the invoice. It matched Edmunds.
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