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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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We did have a bit of fun with him, didn't we?
I don't remember his username?
Now, if he was wanting eat candy bars/chips and share a bottle of Vodka... I'd be right there!
mark156
1. No I never had told anyone a car was here when it was not. I will say it is not here but we have several similar in price and instock. I plead the 5th on the second half of the question.
2. No I have never tagged team per se, but The first store I worked at when I was new, my job was to test drive, gather customer information and a senior sales person did the numbers. It was never to wear the customer down.
3. What really is bait and switch? If I have a client who drives an $39000.00 A4 and wants a 500 a month lease payment, I will show a client which car he can get a 500 a month payment on.
4.If we add a dvd player to a car, we HAVE to put addendum on it. Is that a crime?
5. Why do we have to post the rebates. Customers know invoice and holdback ect....I am sure they know the current cash back incentives too.
I agree. In the last 32 years I bought 4 motorcycles and a dozen cars, most new, some used, and I never had a bad experience. I'd be willing to return to any of those salesmen and buy another car from them right now. It's true, I've met my share of leeches, but the moment I recognized their questionable tactics I walked out the door. It's as simple as that.
yeah, basically thats it. "mr customer, if we can work out numbers that are agreeable to you are you ready to make a buying decision?" from my standpoint the ultimate job of the salesperson is to work with the customer to select a car they will buy today. Of course today is the magic word. As you found out, non serious buyers don't always get the full attention of the staff....OTOH if a salesperson comes up to the desk with a real live today buyer, they get 1000% of my attention to make a deal. Even if it means a short deal.
What is your opinion, please.
Thanks in advance,
Nortsr1
On topic:
This morning service gets a sales call that they transfer over to me.
ME: Land Rover of blahahahha how may I help you?
HIM: Yeah what else do you sell besides Land Rovers?
ME: Well for new cars we only sell Land Rovers and we will sell other premium makes as used cars but currently we only have Land Rovers as used vehicles as well.
HIM: So you only sell Land Rovers?
ME: Yes, sir that is what we specialize in.
HIM: Ok well I have a 1996 Land Rover what is it worth?
ME: Well I really couldn't tell you what it was worth without seeing it and I would need to know the model, trim level and mileage as well.
HIM: It is a 4.0 SE Range Rover. How much will you give me for it?
ME: Without seeing it in person I can't tell you how much it is worth. Older vehicles like that are all about condition and I need to be able to see that.
HIM: Wel it has 66,000 miles and is in P-E-R-F-E-C-T (he enunciated it just like that) conditon.
ME: I am sorry I have to see the vehicle to put a value on it.
HIM: Well what do you have on the lot that is like a 1996 Range Rover?
ME: We do not sell any Land Rovers that are out of warranty so the closest thing I have is a 2002 Westminister edition Range Rover that is the same body style as your 1996 4.0 SE.
HIM: Oh so you wouldn't even take it in trade then?
ME: Oh no we could take it in trade but we would wholesale it away right away. As a retail vehicle it has no value to us. It has wholesale value only.
HIM: Ok well what is the best gas mileage that any of your Land Rovers make?
ME: Well a V6 LR3 is rated at 14/19 City/Highway. I have driven a few and gotten over 20 mpg on the highway using cruise control and driving at 70 mph or less.
HIM: You put regular in those right?
ME: Well they do recomend premium but plenty of people put regular in them and it does not seem to matter.
HIM: (CLICK)
ME: Sir hello sir are you there.
Now I am not even sure what that call was about.
We get a lot of calls from people that are buying an older Range Rover from some shady used car dealer. They are usually calling trying to figure out how much to pay for the Range Rover.
Some of these people are very direct and I will help them out by calling up the cars history on Rovers intranet and seeing if any red flags pop up. If it looks funny then I will ask service to see if they can bring up a service history on the car. I normally try and talk people out of buying those cars because most of the people have no idea what they are getting into.
They are so so far over their heads when it comes to repair costs and they do not even realize it.
Thats what I thought this guy was after but after the end of the conversation I am not sure.
Yeah, the "experts" suggest hiding the fact you have a trade in until a deal is struck.
It really doesn't matter one bit, but most of us can smell a hidden trade every time.
" Will you be trading in your Subaru"?
" Ah...probably not"
" Ah, I think I'm going to sell it myself"
" Ah, I think my neighbor might want it"
" Ah, let's talk about that later".
We hear all of these and more.
You trade is worth whatever the market is. If these are selling for 3000.00 below book at the local auctions, THAT is what it's worth to a dealer.
If it's premimum car in high demand it can bring over book.
When we traded in our Taurus for a Honda in 1995, I said "I will give you $13600 and the Taurus for that new Accord". They let me walk.
I went somewhere else, offered $13750 plus the Taurus and they accepted.
I don't like to play games with people.
This is why I won't do business with anyone...car dealership, insurance sales person, stock broker, etc, whom I don't trust.
All that being said, all the "strategies" regarding hiding the trade-in, it's condition, making or not making the first offer, is something I really don't understand. I'll try to move a dealer over to my way of thinking on my trade value by a few hundred, but have learned that more than that, the added trade value is going to end up adding to the other side of the ledger for the new car. Trying to get under market value on the new car will just subtract from the trade offer.
Getting hard numbers on the trade-in is the toughest thing to do. Going to a few different dealers to put a number on the trade gets me in the ball park, but even then, those numbers can have a relatively wide swing. Terry over at RWTV has been the most accurate I've ever seen. Unfortunately, he's been conspicuously absent recently.
Talk about sales stories, I've recently riden in two cars that colleagues have just bought. One was a Lexus IS 350. The other, a BMW 330i. I was dutifully impressed by both. I have no need for a new car, but really liked both of these. Have owned BMWs in the past. Aside from their sterling driving experience, their maintenance costs were really a big turn off for me. Now they include maintenance for 50K miles. Hmmmmmmm........
Sautering into a Lexus dealership to "look", I ended up driving an IS 350. Very nice (and very fast) cars (as is the BMW). Liked it enough to seriously consider buying one, right there. I knew what the invoice was...and the MSRP was right on the car. The delta was about $6K. Going back and forth for a couple of minutes, I made an offer (about $2,500 above invoice). Long and short of it, we got about $200 apart. About $2,800 over invoice was my final offer. Dealership was $3K over.
I thought I'd stand my ground. Dealer let me walk over $200....even at $2,800 over invoice.
Just goes to show, we both drew lines in the sand and no deal was made. I was stubborn enough not to come up any more. Dealership was stubborn enough not to come down any more.
And "no"....he didn't call me back to reconsider, and I didn't call him back to reconsider.
Oh, so you never lowballed customer's trade (or don't know anyone who has)? Please...
Yeah, the "experts" suggest hiding the fact you have a trade in until a deal is struck.
I don't think that advice is so stupid. It's of course inconvenient but mostly to you. But it has merit, at least for many.
General population doesn't know the math and can't handle two or three things at once. In purchase-trade-financing triangle there is a lot of nice hiding places to obscure true cost available for those who want to do it, so when the trade is cut off the deal and one pays cash, it becomes a very simple transaction.
The logic of that advice is quite simple, actually: agree on the price first and get a commitment from the dealer then if/when trade comes in, it will be a new number easy to spot. If one knows, what it's worth, they'll find out quickly whether the offer is in pair or not. Moreover, the dealer already committed resources to the transaction (revealed the new car pricing), so if the customer is ready to walk out in case of unsatisfactory trade offer, they may be in advantage.
Whether to do it together or separately is a no-issue for well-informed and math-savvy buyers who know what their stuff is worth. But Joe Schmo who got D- on his last fifth grade math course may actually benefit from keeping these things separate. The problem may be in peoples' attachment to their vehicles and unrealistic expectations.
For good and honest salesman it should make no difference whether they do it together or not, as they would treat those two transactions separate anyway. I buy your Honda for 20 grand, you take my Subaru for 7. Plain and simple, no difference if we agreed on it at once or separately.
The only difference I can see is actually your time, as it is likely that separate transactions would take more time, which is perhaps precious to you but has no bearing on customer's mind.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
What do I do? When I clicked on "the name", it was my profile and my account. How can someone do that? :confuse: :surprise: Help!
Thanks, Mark156
The trade in is worth the same thing if I know about it before or later. Whe it is hidden, it only creates more paperwork for me. I suppose some salespeople may become so annoyed by the tactic that they give them less for it?
I just think it's funny. I can smell them every time.
What is really annoying is when the hidden trade becomes a dealbreaker. They want way too much for it, owe a lot more than it's worth etc. I could have found these things out and saved myself a whole lot of time on a busy day.
My last four questions were practices that a lot of posters have said were used on them. I was simply asking if they "knew" of these practices. You are right, they (the practices) are underhanded. If the rest of the questions "implied" the sales people were dishonest....I apologize!
The Anonymous Dealer
I'm not an expert with the back-end of the software... best to use the "help" link at the bottom of the page and fill in the "contact us" form. It'll go straight to the desk of someone who CAN help you... sorry.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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My point is the advice comes for a reason - there are some places that notoriously would attempt to steal a trade claiming with a straight face they don't. Perhaps your first offer on the trade is your last, but "theft attempts" happen often enough to be cautious. One common way to hide the "theft" it is to put a unrealistically low price on the new car, but of course not low enough to offset the lowball trade. Very often people get very same offer over and over, just with numbers moved around and THAT can also be frustrating.
For people who are mathematically challenged, going separately may be a prudent strategy to avoid such tactic, as they can concentrate on one thing. That would not be me - numbers and complex operation is what I do for living, so I would not be afraid of getting everything in one worksheet at once. But I can see why someone may not want to.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I don't know any "expert" except self described experts that say that. I hear them say be open that you have a car you want to get rid of and will trade if the deal is right, but negotiate the new car and the trade in separately. I have pulled my car from the table when I knew I had a better deal waiting down the street for my car.
One time I had a salesman keep asking about my car as a trade in even though I told him from the beginning that it was spoken for.
Anyway most of my cars are crushed into cubes when I am done with them so trade ins aren't an issue.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you sign in on a computer that others will use make sure you close out the window and makesure there is no auto sign in.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Funny thing, my message on the Dodge Sprinter board is gone and I put in another one. Someone deleted it? :confuse:
Weird, I've never had trouble before. Hopefully, the higher-ups can help me. Maybe it's just a glitch.
The real, Mark156 :surprise:
However that being said, 25% of people who come onto the lots buy a car and salesmen and the dealerships are there to sell cars.
In sales we have all heard it! "Quit hangin' around your desks!" "If you need something to do go rearrange the lot" "Three at a desk is bad news" "Start calling people out of the phone book" "Go work your orphan owners"
As I had stated previously I was trained by N.A.D.A. to sell cars and they were very exacting as to how you should conduct your day. Although I have been caught being lazy from time to time I mostly followed a routine every day.
So one day I get a batch of Orphan Owners (For non-sales these are customers of the dealership whose salesperson is no longer employed at the dealership.) and I start calling them. One by one I leave messages or talk with them breifly about the possibility of them trading in their old car, making notes as I go... "Not in the Market" "Great I say, your car is performing well! When do you think you might be in the market? May I call you a couple of months before then?" etc. Then I start making out postcards and letters (both for each customer) About an hour into this I get paged for a phone call.
I get a call from one of the Orphan Owners who thanks me for getting in touch with him and asks if there are any specials on the New Camrys. "Normally we do not discount them very much as they have just come out, but for a repeat customer I think they will provide an additional discount. We appraise his trade via phone and get all of the particulars of the vehicle he wants. Close the deal over the phone but the car he wants is not in inventory and is in short supply.
I call him back to let him know that we are in the process of getting the car for him and that we will have an answer for him later that day. So we secure the car and send the driver out and I call him immediately to let him know we are ON THE WAY! Proper follow up throughout! I get his voicemail, leave the message, and wait 5 minutes and call back. Still voice mail so I don't leave a second message. Wait 10 minutes and call again. Still voicemail "Mr Customer I have been arranging everything for you and may have missed your return call. Just wanted to keep you up to date."
I attempt to contact him several times thoughout the day but do not leave a mass of messages. Two work, one home, and one with his secretary at work to call me as well as ask her to call his cell phone as "I do not want anything to slip through the cracks and really want the purchase to go smoothly for him"
*POOF into the wind he went
So the car gets to the dealership and I get the vehicle cleaned up for him (Left the window sticker in since I couldn't get ahold of him)
FINALLY he calls! "Hey! Have been trying to get you all day! I have your car all ready to go! When would you like to schedule delivery?"
"oh yea, I just bought one at your competitor. Same price and they had the vehicle in stock," He said "I figured you wouldn't find the car"
I was soooo angry! I brought him into the market, did all of the leg work and he couldn't even wait two hours when he wasn't even in the market!
I told him the following (He was a lawyer) "Well I am happy that you purchased your new Car. And I hope it falls apart. It's no wonder Lawyers have a worse reputation than we do as your word OBVIOUSLY means nothing! When I called you, you weren't even looking to trade-in your car. I have done all of the work and you just walked in with my price and bought one from someone who did NOTHING! Good riddance to you, SIR!" and I slammed down the phone.
He never called the dealership to complain and I am lucky he did not. Probably would have lost my job and I certainly LOST IT with him.
The Anonymous Dealer
(Two Years Later)
When I moved from AL to TX I reassigned all of my clients to fellow salespeople who I thought matched personalities. As I was going though my files I came across his info. I had never spoken like that to any customer before or since and always regretted my outburst (although it felt hella good in the moment) I picked up the phone, made three phone calls and tracked him down. I explained who I was and how he knew me. I then apologized for my extremely rude behavior and although I felt slighted it was not my place to belittle him or his profession because HE bought a car with HIS money. He also apologized and understood why I was so out of sorts. He said he had also felt bad about making a snap decision and that he did not give me the proper opportunity to meet his needs. Not exactly a reconcilliation but it cleaned up my side of the whole fiasco.
Thank you for your service...... :shades:
I think I will be ramping up the stories a bit so you have something to read! Hope you are coming home to Texas and find me :P !!!!!!!!!!!
The Anonymous *hic Dealer *uuurrp
"What is really annoying is when the hidden trade becomes a dealbreaker. They want way too much for it, owe a lot more than it's worth etc. I could have found these things out and saved myself a whole lot of time on a busy day."
I would have said (and meant it):
"What is really annoying is when the hidden trade becomes a dealbreaker. They want way too much for it, owe a lot more than it's worth etc. We could have found these things out and saved the customer a whole lot of time. A trade is also negotiable but keeping it hidden until the end takes away a Customer's valuable time when the perceived and actual value are miles apart."
The Anonymous Dealer
You are so much more eloquent than I.
But the guy who is $3k flipped in his trade, gets a realistic deal on his new ride, and then "needs" what he owes on the old sled would drive me absolutely bananas.
"I don't want to make a profit, I only want what I owe" as if those words had actual meaning... That sort of idiocy I have absolutely no patience for.
Now the cars, that part is easy!
-Mathias
Yes, but there are LOTS OF PEOPLE with negative equity. I wonder how much car sales would be affected if all those people just drove their cars until they were paid for.....
next stupid question
The Anonymous Dealer
smiley fixed (you know you loved it!)
You forgot the smiley!
tidester, host
Customer comes on to the showroom approx. 4 years ago in Austin Tx. Says "Who wants to sell me a car? Who is hungry?"
many years from being a novice salesperson I groaned. Of course I then got up and did my best to assist the customer. He had his girlfriend's 4Runner in the shop. Told me to have it appraised and to pick her out a new one. He hands me a hundred dollars for my time and gets ready to go. I had to stop him and give him his money back which he refused. "no one works for free!" I went to my General Manager and asked him what he would like me to do with the money. He gave me permission to keep it so I did. (For all of the salespeople laughing... If money changes hands from customer to salesperson it really is the Dealers money. You work for them! Most managers will let you keep it but you really should ask. I know... I will wait for the laughing to die down.
So anyway... I do as requested and get all the figures together for him. He doesn't show back up for several hours and I figure "whatever." When he finally does show up he decides upon a completely different 4Runner for her (go figure... knew that would happen) So I get the write-up redone and present figures to him. Earlier in the car deal he told me to make some but not all of the money... so I did! After examining the figures he starts screaming and cussing and calling me a thief, a crook, a "curseword" this and "Curseword" that. I sat quietly as he continued this rant mostly in SHOCK. After a while of pausing and starting up again he finally settles down... and says "(My Last name") what nationality is that? "Czech" I replied. "I'll be a Son-of-a-gun!" he said "ME TOO!" and he agreed to the price on the spot.
He stood on the showroom while we were getting the car ready and he told my sales manager "I got messed-over on the price. I was in car sales and I know I got messed over... but I like that kid."
We were only $1,000 over invoice and they put all the money in the trade. To this day he is a good friend of mine and still doesn't believe me!
The Anonymous Dealer
Replies to this message:
• ateixeira (Jul 12, 2006 12:11 pm)
Actually no, the money you saved by not buying a new car every couple of years would be spent on other things so the tax money would stay the same. Maybe even go up because the government doesn't tax interest payments.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Now, that's funny!
I think most of us know how the trade affects the cost of the new car and vice versa.
When I've had a trade, I've got a decent idea of what it's worth. It may not be to my liking, but I know the number on it. I'll try to move the dealer a bit on it without affecting the cost of the new car, however.
As long as you keep your eye focused on the cost differential between the trade and the new car, I don't see an issue with disclosing a trade during the new car negotiations.
True, not only of cars, but anything else bought or sold. Anything is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. Don't like the trade number? You can always sell it yourself for more.
I've heard more than one person tell me that ll of the dealers were trying to "steal" their trade. When I ask them how many dealerships they went to, it's sometimes as many as 5-6...all of them well below what they wanted for their trade. As I always reply to them, "now you know what you're trade is worth in hard carsh".
Something I never understood is why someone would trade with negative equity. Why "add" to the cost of the new car, that you spent so much time ngotiating for, by rolling over "lost money" of the car you're trading? That's the beginning of a very slippery financial slope which could take years to rectify.
Keep it. Pay it off. At least keep it until it represents a substaantial downpayment on that new car.
If everyone stopped buying cars right now and waited until their CURRENT car was paid off: most dealers would file backruptcy, the state and local gov'ts would not get anywhere NEAR the revenue they normally acheive and by the time they normalized they will have raised all other taxes to compensate.
Sheesh... just follow along and stop thinking about YOU!
The Anonymous Dealer
Not really, I have a habit of driving cars into the ground. Its not like I show up at a dealer with a 6 year old car with 80k miles on it. I have the mind frame that as long as its running I'm keeping it. Hence when I show up willing to buy a car my old car is worth nothing but scrap.
Keep it. Pay it off. At least keep it until it represents a substantial downpayment on that new car.
Keep it, pay it off then put what you have been making as car payments into an interest bearing account and use that to buy your new car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Coincidentally enough, I was reading my August R&T last night and in the back there is someone who wrote a letter asking about his newly purchased '98 XK. The reply from the editor mentioned that the 4.0 engine has several timing chains, some of which have PLASTIC tensioners that break very early in the engine's life, causing catastrophic engine damage.
So I wanted to pass that along since you mentioned the buyer was someone you knew. If that XK has the 4.0, he needs to get those tensioners updated to the new metal replacements Jag has for them. And he needs to do it NOW!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Well it is obvious one of us don't, since my expertise is in finance and economics I will hazard to guess it isn't me.
If everyone stopped buying cars right now and waited until their CURRENT car was paid off: most dealers would file backruptcy,
That may or may not be the case (fewer people trading in cars means fewer used cars for sale means higher prices for used cars means more people opting for new over used), but even if it were it does not mean that tax revenues would suffer. Dealerships don't have that much effect on the economy.
Say Joe Smith comes in and buys a car he is taxed on the difference between the cost of the new car and the trade in value (most states) yet if he is upside down on the loan his payments are going to go up. Since his payments go up he will spend less at other places.
Now if he didn't trade in his car and get higher payments he now would have more spending money and will spend it. As he spends that extra money taxes will be applied to that. Plus if more people did that more people would be employed as they would have more spending more money since they are keeping their car payments down. More people spending money more tax revenues.
It is very possible that people not keeping their cars for longer than the loan term has hurt the economy, not helped it. Heavy personal debt does not help out economies.
Sheesh... just follow along and stop thinking about YOU!
I am not thinking about myself, but since I have a degree in Economics I know how that works. People keeping their cars longer will help the tax base not hurt it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Thanks for telling me though I saw campaign numbers in its service history and figured they were some kind of recall/update but was not sure what they were.
The Anonymous Dealer
It doesn't take an Economic Degree to see the obvious! It's not that I disagree with your premise I just think you simplified it to support your arguement. It would take about 2 years for the growth you suggest to occur since they still HAVE their current payment and would not have enough "spare cash" to do the spending you suggest.
p.s. they already have the debt! it is a modest to moderate difference to trade but as a percentage of their current debt very small!
keep in mind I just added up almost half a million dollars between TWO car dealerships. Houston has well over 100 dealerships (23.8 million lost revenue for one month and climbing!)
I am afriad you are over simplifying it, the short term effect would be for people to have more money in their pocket to spend, it workd out very quickly. The economy would benefit very quickly (read short term) if people would hold onto the cars well after the payments are up.
That would mean every single current customer would not trade or purchase.
Not true, cars come out of service everyday. Either they get stolen, wrecked or simply wear out. These cars do need replacement. Secondly currently those cars they trade in get sold, you just don't toss them ot with the garbage. Since there would be a lack of used cars for sale that would push the price of those which would move more use car purchasers into new cars. If people started keeping cars until they were paid off cars sales wuldn't stop and most dealerships would survive.
So you are seriously telling me the consumers would spend an additional $1,400 MORE each and every month?
A false argument simply because the $1,400 you quote is tax revunue on a ONE TIME purchase.
Sorry, your arguement doesn't hold up.
Gee my college professor gave me an A on my paper about this very thing. Since he has since won a Noble prize in Economics you want to tell him I am wrong?
Anyway I do not want to turn this forum into a lesson on economics so i will leave it at that. If you want to continue this we can always use e-mail.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Nope...can't happen. I am in California. We have prop 13. Property taxes are can only go up a 1- 1/2% year!