Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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The privacy act has to do with how they protect your information and what they do with it. Most dealers just do a bad job of keeping your information private.. leaving copies of your drivers lisc on desks, SSN, bank info..ect.
The gray area in running your credit... technically... you came in to buy a car.. you had the intent... so you would be hard pressed to make much of the matter. Let the BBB in your area know...
The good news is that it should not impact your credit score as it would have in the past. The credit reporting agencies now recognize how dealers "pile on" the credit checks...... and do not count each credit check within a week or so.
In the end they did the wrong thing based upon your testimonial. If you feel strongly enough, pursue it. If not get with the general manager and press for some sort of recompense.
p.s. the intent was not there as he stated he already had his financing. (not a cash transaction)
The Anonymous Dealer
The Federal Trade Commission differs with that position. Per the FTC link that I provided above:
The staff's letter includes the following specific guidance as to the use of credit reports by automobile dealers:
--A request to "test drive" a vehicle does not indicate an intent to purchase a vehicle and, therefore, does not "initiate" a business transaction. A dealer must obtain written permission if the dealer wants to check a consumer's credit report before or during a test drive.
--Obtaining credit reports solely for the purpose of negotiating with consumers is not permitted.
--The fact that a consumer asks questions about prices and financing does not necessarily indicate an intent to purchase or lease a vehicle from the dealer. The consumer may only be "window shopping" or comparison shopping. Thus, the dealer must obtain the consumer's written permission before obtaining the credit report if the consumer has simply asked questions about prices and financing.
--If a dealer needs to see a consumer's credit report before answering general questions, such as inquiries about available financing when the consumer has not applied for credit, the dealer must obtain written permission from the consumer.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Dwilliams...what part of the country do you work in?
We bought a nice Honda Accord last year for $500 under invoice, so I don't think MSRP is a "great value".
We didn't even have to negotiate to get that price. We just walked into the dealer, made an offer, and they accepted. Oh yeah, they stalled for awhile, but they accepted exactly what we offered.
I think Isell probably meant "some" Hondas are a great value at MSRP, like the current Civic, and the first few years of the Odyssey.
That's why comparison tests usually give points to the Honda for being cheaper (based on sticker), even though in the real world the higher priced car might be discounted much more, making the street price lower.
Autoweek just had a piece on the upcoming Sebring, and they indicated that the plan was to undercut CamCord pricing (msrp), as opposed to today's model that sticker for more!
Also, other than the Odyssey (that I know of), Honda traditionally has a fairly small invoice to sticker spread, so there just isn't that much room to discount. Maybe they have changed this recently, but I know it didn't happen on the Civic.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Well they did violate Federal law by running your credit without your permission. I would report the incident to the proper authorities but other than that I would just let it go and never do business with them.
Also this should teach you to never, under any circumstances, give out your SSN unless it is absolutely positively needed. Since you were paying cash it wasn't needed.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
When I was in sales I bent over backwards for the customer, as long as its doing whats right for the customer. Remember there is a difference between doing whats right and doing anything.
Gee... I read though some of your posts... and you call me a whiner! LOL
Give me a break this whole post of your is one long whine.
Show me one post where I whined about something (remember relating a story is not whining) Show me a post where I am "hating".
You are being overly sensitive, you are in an industry that does have more than their fair share of bad apples and this is a forum to discuss that industry. That being said many negative stories will come up, you need to deal with that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We do not ask for the SSN number untill we are putting all of the paperwork together. We would never ask for it until a price has been agreed upon.
I can't believe I'm the first one to ask this ... HOW MUCH??
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I am not sure about that, one time a dealer went with the shoot gun effect for my loan and I had something like a dozen or more banks run a credit report. It did bring my score down.
It will boil down to your word or theirs
Unless they can provide a signed piece of paper authorizing the credit check they will lose.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
i'm looking forward to this board over the next couple of months as you go through your list.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That is a lot of spread.
That sure is but percentage wise I think its less than Hondas.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
About 11 percent on the honda and 10 percent on the Westminster. That is assuming Edmunds has the invoice correct for the honda. They almost never have ours right and are normally off by 500 to 100 dollars.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Someday I'd like to have enough money that I can play with people like that, and, if treated well, reward them appropriately.
But I bet even he'd admit, they're an even better value when you get them below invoice.
Thanks for the reply, which was a bit surprising, as I can't recall any salespeople posting what they sold a new vehicle for...much less MSRP. When you speak frequently of referrals and repeats being a major part of your business, I'm thinking someone comes in and gets an easy $400-$800 over invoice price without the hassle of haggling. But, I would suspect you're not getting MSRP from repeat custumers.
The second part of that question, if you care to answer, was "how" do you do it?(Get MSRP or substantially over invoice) Again I would suspect someone tests drives, you establish a repore with the customer, they say they would like to buy, you say "here is the price"(MSRP)...they say "great...write it up"
I know that may be hard for you to believe but not every deal has to be a nothing deal
I never claimed it did. I have no problem whatsoever with salespeople selling at MSRP, or a consumer buying at MSRP. I would expect any good salesman to have the goal of getting MSRP out of each and every deal. I think a good consumer tries to get the lowest price possible...but I also put some value in the service I recieve as well. If a person pays MSRP and is happy with the deal...I say good for them...and you. It's likely they are buying for the "positive experience" as well as the car. Not my cup of tea, but whatever floats your boat.
Hondas are a great value at MSRP
Being Pro-Consumer isn't the same as being Anti-Dealership or Anti-Salesmen. I think that sometimes gets confused on these boards. So, if Hondas are a great value at MSRP...they are an even greater value at invoice.
Go back to post #1 - to paraphrase - this is a forum for sales stories good and bad and consumers are invited to read, but not bash.
You post a lot of good information on several forums. However. some of your negative stories are border line bashes or attacks and not welcomed by a lot of people including several us non-sales people.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The first forum I ever posted on almost a decade ago and one I still frequent from time to time has no moderators.
The only rules are you cannot post someone elses personal information and you cannot threaten anyone with bodily harm. Posts will be deleted from breaknig those rules but that is it.
It is a complete free for all and we police ourselves. Trolls are identified and for the most part ignored till they go away. They sometimes come back under other names but it is pretty easy to identify them again.
It's not a free for all here but members usually do a pretty good job of policing themsleves all on their own. We do insist that members not engage in personal attacks.
The best solution for dealing with postings you don't want to read is ... <drumroll> ... don't read them! Just scroll past them.
tidester, host
Here is a great example of a comment made by someone at the other side of the table. This brings moderation to this board. But, if you bring anything up that goes beyond this (like how a deal works) you get bashed. I would like to see some of the following questions answered-
Have you ever told a customer an ad car was there when it was sold earlier? If you haven't, do you know someone who did? Does he or she do it consistently?
Does your store use the tag team approach? (Sales person after sales person to "wear down" the client?
Did you ever work for a store that practiced "bait and switch"?
Does your store as a practice add a second sticker on the window with additional things such as "protection package," alarms, etc?
Does your store keep all rebates off the windshields and expect the customer to be aware of them?
C'mon-sales guys, none of us know who you are. Answer up!
oh sorry. missed it. you're too quick and slipped it in there when i was writing a reply to dwilliam.
wow! $27k otd! ARRRGGGggg... why can't i find deals like this?!
Then again, don't know if i could have that car as my everyday driver. Yikes!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
No to the first three questions.
No to the turnover system as well. Land Rover Sales guides are empowered to do the entire deal. The only time I turn someone over to another person is to handle the finance side as that is not my job. Most times I close my deals without even bringing in manager. If I have reached an impasse with the customer I will just tell them flat out that this is all I can do.
If you would like to sit down with our centre manager he might be able to offer a little more or at the very least provide a fresh explination of why this is the final number.
No bait and switch.
We are requried by Land Rover to put addendum stickers on any car that we have gear on. We are also required to have a sticker on our cars that tell what the added features we offer to Land Rover Members. Things like loaner cars, driving events and valet service.
We don't have rebates unless it is at the very end of the year to clear out the few left over models.
I think a more proper question would be:
Have you ever told a customer an ad car was there when you know it was sold earlier?
To be honest there can be times when a car is sold and the salesman simply is not aware that it is. While that may be sloppy work (not checking first) it certainly not dishonest or unethical.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The problem is that your "sample questions" are all implications that the salespeople in this forum engage in shady sales practices. YOu might as well have said, "Give us some stories of how you ripped people off". Whether or not a salesperson has actually ripped someone off is not germane to the discussion; it's no different than an accountant coming here and bragging about how he embezzled his company out of thousands of dollars. It's not going to happen, because you are looking at things incorrectly. For example...
Some of the questions that are not direct implications of bad salesmanship such as "Does your store use the tag team approach to wear down your customer?" shows a misunderstanding of how sales works. In that specific situation, a salesperson may not have the expertise needed to ask the "right" questions to address any misgivings the customer has about buying the car. There is nothing shady about this practice, it is simply a sales pro helping out a "newbie".
As far as the "second MSRP sticker" and "keeping rebates off the windshields", well.. if you walk into any store on the planet and buy anything at all, how do you know you're not getting taken? The item you just bought may have been a freebie from the manufacturer that cost the store NOTHING, meaning every penny you gave the clerk is either profit for the store or goes to pay the store's expenses. What makes you think that car dealerships have this responsibility to hold your hand throughout the transaction to keep you from "paying too much", while no other store does?
I recall a few times I was semi-interested in a vehicle and asked for dealerships best price. I had not verbally committed to buy,and stated I was not buying that day, so naturally the price was not very good. Salesdesk knocked a whopping $400 off a used 3 year old Sienna. The salesperson called back later that day and took another $600 off, but it really wasn't the van we were interested in. i.e cat hair all over & looked as if the cat had chewed a hole in one of the seatbelt straps.
Believe me, that's a good thing. The signal to noise ratio here is the best on the web, period. Go elsewhere and it seems like the median age is 12. Seriously.
-juice
It helps that on that particular board everyone is supposed to be over 18.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Things just fall out of it all the time when they really should just stay up in their brain.
It is such good story. See, everybody has a wonderful experience in his life. I am glad to know you.
Hats off. :P
And thank you hgbee! Nice to know ya too.
The Anonymous Dealer
vote for your next story!
He swaggered in here acting like a total jerk of a car salesperson, stereotypical in spades, and the regulars in here straightened him out pretty quickly. It didn't take too long before he was acknowledging that he'd learned a lot from them and he did a 180 in his attitude. He really seemed to be emulating the above-board, straightforward sales approach that the regulars pressed on him.
Isell, remember him? I have no memory at all of his name, but I sure remember his behavior and the ultimate outcome.
Those of you who seem to want to believe that the regular salesfolks in here are somehow evil or deceitful or whatever, they have proved time and again that they are not. I think this pressing them on "admitting" to underhanded practices is totally uncalled for.
(Spoken as a reader, not the host.)