Stories from the Sales Frontlines

oldfarmer50

"...raining and high winds..."

That always makes me want to go for a test drive

"...They've only sold 4 cars..."

How many do you typically sell in your store in the week between Christmas and New Year? I've heard on this board that it is either really slow or really busy.

I'm trying to picture the type who would shop at this time. If I was buying a big 6000 pound beast for the tax break now would be best. Otherwise I can't see shopping now.

mackabee

It's usually a mad house at my store. Weather's not helping. Hopefully most will wait until Fri-Sat to buy.
Mack

snakeweasel

Body language can tell you everything you need to know.

Maybe, maybe their body language is telling you just what they want you to know. Some people know just how to act in such a way as not to tip their hand and help them in negotiations.

lrguy44

Very few people would even think of trying to hide body language and if they did they are acting anyway and are most likely strokes. Never had it happen to me in 15 years in the biz

snakeweasel

I know few people even try but a good negotiator is very much aware that their body language can tip their hand and try to minimize it as much as they can. A few good ones can use that to their advantage.

Anyway we are talking about buying a car, it's not exactly rocket surgery.

oldfarmer50

"...a good negotiator is very much aware that their body language can tip their hand..."

Along time ago someone posted tips for the successful negotiator. One of the steps was to bring a sandwich with you and take small bites from time to time and make lip smacking noises while offering bites to the salesman.

I thought that this was a joke but now I see it was a way to disguise body language.

greanpea68

I know few people even try but a good negotiator is very much aware that their body language can tip their hand and try to minimize it as much as they can. A few good ones can use that to their advantage.

Snake,

That's fine because if they are a good negotiator then their body language isn't going to work in that case. If they are a good negotiator they will make a "offer to buy the car that day

If their offer is accepted than there is a deal

If we can't do it and we counter offer that's fine too.

But a good negotiator will know where the breaking point is and probably won't be into playing games at a dealership because they would rather be at home with their families :shades:

GP

isellhondas

And some people cross the line.

They grind too hard and too much for very small amounts of money and they aren't friendly about it. For them, it's all about money.

Usually when we take the deal, they still aren't happy.

I would much rather walk these people than sell them a car.

jpics

GTR is AUTO only

jpics

I had a couple today that test drove 5 different cars (same make and model, different colorss/trim levels) and finally decied on a car to buy yet never test-drove that car :confuse:

mackabee

Which make of car do you sell? What model did they test drive?
:shades:

snakeweasel

I had a couple today that test drove 5 different cars (same make and model, different colorss/trim levels)

Wouldn't each car drive pretty much the same? Or were there 5 different engine/transmission combinations?

madmanmoo

That's not correct based on what I've been reading. It's a manual transmission with paddle shifters. It's not a tiptronic which is just an automatic transmission with set gears. It's a dual clutch system. Edmunds has a few articles about it.

Link me something if I'm wrong.

-moo

dino001

It all depends what you mean by manual transmission. Some people would call "manual" everything without torque converter to emphasize direct clutch shift mechanisms.

Others (me including) would say that "manual" requires no option for computer directed shifts. As long as it has "D" on the shifter and possibilty of letting machine to decide when to shift, it's an automatic transmission - regardless of shifting mechanism or manual control option.

roadburner

That's not correct based on what I've been reading. It's a manual transmission with paddle shifters. It's not a tiptronic which is just an automatic transmission with set gears. It's a dual clutch system. Edmunds has a few articles about it.

Correct; it's very similar to the VW/Audi DSG as well as the setup in the EVO X MR. It's not a true slushbox IMO as it lacks a torque converter. OTOH, it's not a "real" manual transmission as it does not have a clutch pedal and features a full automatic option.

wlbrown9

How about a mailer to all your orphaned customers?

Does your dealership check the DO NOT CALL lists? In Tennessee you could be fined up to a couple grand for cold calling prospects, one exception is having a business relationship within the past 12 months. After that if the consumer is on the State of Tenn Don Not Call registry, you are in violation. A mailer would be much safer in this case.

sorry for the late reply on this one but I'm behind because of the holidays :-)

wlbrown9

Once in a blue moon, I'll get a customer who insists on driving the actual car they are going to buy and I always think it's waste of time. Still, I'm happy (kinda) to oblige.

They all drive the same and the car they are buying isn't going to drive one bit differently than the demo did.

I did not drive the exact Trooper I bought in 2000 since it was on display inside the dealership. That was a little bit of a mistake. It had a slight vibration until I replaced the Bridgstones at 43,000 miles. I took it back twice to have the dealership do something...first time was "Tires have to have at least 500 miles before we can do anything" second time was attempt to balance that did not do any better. Was a small problem but bugged me. Note that when I put Michelins on to replace the Bridgestones there was a worse vibration. They had to replace one of the new tires to correct that.

joel0622

Check out this list of complaints against the Bill Heard store in FL.

Government Actions

On July 6, 2007 the Georgia Governor's Office of Consumer Affairs filed a civil action against Bill Heard Enterprises, Inc. and Bill Heard Chevrolet Company alleging approximately 10,000 customers in Georgia, including Columbus, were sent deceptive advertisements.

Specifically, Joseph B. Doyle, Administrator of the Fair Business Practices Act of 1975, filed the action in Fulton County Superior Court. The suit alleges the companies sent out approximately 10,000 fliers to consumers designed to look like a General Motors recall notice. The documents informed consumers - all who had either bought or had vehicles serviced at Bill Heard within the past two years - that their vehicles possibly qualified for a free service recall. It also offered a complimentary 28-point safety inspection.

General Motors officials indicated no such recall was issued nor was Bill Heard Enterprises or Bill Heard Chevrolet Company authorized to solicit business through the flyers.

The Office of Consumer Affairs and Bill Heard Enterprises had been negotiating this issue since early 2007. Bill Heard Enterprises filed action against the Office of Consumer Affairs demanding records of the consumers who had received the controversial flyers. The Office of Consumer Affairs recent action came as a counterclaim.

The Office of Consumer Affairs is seeking a court order enjoining future violations of the Fair Business Practices Act and restitution for any Georgia customers injured by the recall notice, civil penalties and recovery of all related costs to the State involving the civil action. If the court rules against Bill Heard companies, they may be fined with $5,000 per violation or $50 million for the 10,000 violations.

According to court documents, the Office of Consumer Affairs has issued 16 government actions against Bill Heard Enterprises over the past 15 years for false and deceptive advertising. Those fines and penalties total approximately $280,000. The last and largest settlement Bill Heard agreed to was in 2004, when the dealership paid a $188,000 settlement following the investigation of deceptive advertising practices.

The case is currently pending. BBB will update
BBB Definition:

update - A routine file maintenance on company reports to the public. Conducted to verify information contained in the report
BBB Definition:

report - A summary of activity reflected in a company's BBB file. Includes basic business background, BBB membership information, and BBB complaint activity over the previous three years. Also reports may include any known government actions, advertising issues
BBB Definition:

advertising issues - Claims alleging print or electronic media advertised claims or practices misrepresent the service or product offer.


or other information that results from activity conducted by the BBB.


. Public reports in update
BBB Definition:

update - A routine file maintenance on company reports to the public. Conducted to verify information contained in the report. Public reports in update are usually unavailable to the public for 15 days during this maintenance period.


are usually unavailable to the public for 15 days during this maintenance period.


this aspect of the report
BBB Definition:

report - A summary of activity reflected in a company's BBB file. Includes basic business background, BBB membership information, and BBB complaint activity over the previous three years. Also reports may include any known government actions, advertising issues
BBB Definition:

advertising issues - Claims alleging print or electronic media advertised claims or practices misrepresent the service or product offer.


or other information that results from activity conducted by the BBB.


as more information becomes available.

On November 7, 2007 Bill Heard Chevrolet entered into an Assurance of Voluntary Compliance (AVC) with the State of Florida, Office of the Attorney General, Department of Legal Affairs in settlement of case number L06-3-1135.

Specifically, the Attorney General initiated an investigation of Bill Heard Chevrolet and their affiliates in connection with consumer complaints regarding unfair and deceptive business practices relating to the advertisement, sale, finance and warranty of motor vehicles. Matters investigated by the Attorney General include, but are not limited to, the following allegations that Bill Heard Chevrolet:
1. failed to respond adequately or promptly to consumer complaints;
2. advertised vehicles that were not available or not available for the advertised price;
3. radio advertisements made promises of credit approval, including "credit amnesty" and "approval wonderland," when in fact the dealership does not provide financing;
4. traveled to the homes of financially unqualified consumers' relatives to obtain signatures in order to secure financing;
5. made misrepresentations regarding the sale of vehicles by spot delivery;
6. failed to honor warranties and provided insufficient disclosure of the conditions to which warranties were given;
7. advertised prices with rebates, for which were next to impossible for any consumer to qualify because of inconsistent eligibility requirements and insufficient disclosure of the conditions for qualifying;
8. applied General Motors employee pricing incentives to sales of vehicles for customers who were not eligible for or did not have authorization to receive said pricing incentives.

The Attorney General further investigated Bill Heard Chevrolet's advertising campaigns which occurred in 2006, including, but not limited to, the "Fantastic Fortune Cash Giveaway," "Scratch-off Extravaganza," "Sports Scratch-off Spectacular," "Scratch-off Spectacular," "Credit Amnesty," and "Walking in Approval Wonderland." The investigated allegations of Bill Heard Chevrolet's false, misleading and deceptive practices relating to these advertised campaigns, including, but not limited to the following:
1. False statements that consumers would win cash prizes when in fact the prize was a discount on the purchase of a vehicle with no cash value;
2. False statements that the offer of sale or discounts were based on the consumer's credit rating when fact no credit checks were actually conducted;
3. False statements that the vehicles for sale were "unclaimed," and "seized;"
4. False statements that the vehicles were selling for up to 90% off their original prices;
5. Misrepresentations of the amount of the cash prize that would be received;
6. Failure to disclose restrictions and conditions in the promotions;
7. False statements that the event was a "forced liquidation" sale when the company did not qualify for a liquidation sale pursuit to Section 559.20, Florida Statues;
8. False statements that cons

jmonroe

I did not drive the exact Trooper I bought in 2000 since it was on display inside the dealership. That was a little bit of a mistake.

It had a slight vibration until I replaced the Bridgstones at 43,000 miles.

I don’t understand the reasoning that just because the demo is the same as the car you are buying, there is no need to test drive the car you are buying. There are lots of things that can be different with the one that will belong to you and you described a major reason why you should drive what you’re buying.

When I bought in 06’, I mentioned to the dealer that I had already test drove the car at another dealer (I couldn’t buy from him because he was unwilling to get me the car I wanted even though I had bought from him in 05’. Too bad, his loss) so I knew I wanted that car but I wouldn’t buy from him unless I drove what I was buying,

He said it was that dealerships policy that the buyer drives the car they are buying and the salesman MUST go along so if there is a problem the salesman would know exactly what the problem was so he could get it into and out of the service dept. with the least amount of delay.

To me this is only common sense but I guess common sense ain’t always so common. :confuse:

jmonroe

mackabee

Got your package today! I will take a picture and put it on my blog, hopefully it will drive more members to my carspace. Thanks!
:shades:

isellhondas

" There are lots of things that can be different than the one that will belong to you"

There are? What?

An Accord LX is an Accord LX and they all drive exactly the same. In 13 years I have never driven one that was one iota different than the others.

Now, I will say that we have an excellent service department. On every PDI, they drive the cars until the have at least ten miles on them. They listen for noises and vibrations and anything that could be amiss from the factory.

I suppose not all cars are screwed together as well as Hondas may be and I'm sure other service departments aren't as fussy.

I read in these forums about new Hondas being delivered with something like 3 miles on them. That's what they usually have when they come off the trucks.

So, I think test driving the exact car a peson is buying is a total waste of time for both parties but it that's what my customer wants, that's fine with me.

I think I may have been asked to do this maybe six times out of the thousands of new Hondas I've sold.

joel0622

Anytime brother. Let me know what you think of that DVD

chikoo

There are? What?

An Accord LX is an Accord LX and they all drive exactly the same. In 13 years I have never driven one that was one iota different than the others.

I am glad you are not the master technician at your dealership. your customers (like me) would be very unhappy with your inabilities to discern the rattles, creaks, vibrations, weird noises, etc.

rowlandj

Recently I test drove an Acura that made 'odd' noises during the test drive. Obviously, had I purchased that model; I would not have taken that particular vehicle. It was a 'fresh' one right off the lot with about 8 miles and it sounded like the front end was going to rip out of the car on left turns.

I believe that there are lots of reasons to drive what your buying rather than assuming they are all the same but for color and etc...

PS - I ended up in an Audi but the Acura was in the running at that time.

oldfarmer50

"...An Accord LX is an Accord LX..."

True, but what if the salesman sends you out in a LX and then tries to sell you an EX?

Years ago I was looking at Toyotas. The salesman had me drive a very upscale version of the model I was looking at. He never told me that the car I was looking at was the cheapo model. When I drove the lesser vehicle it felt noisy and "tinny".

I mentioned this to the salesman and he got mad and told me I was too picky.

This was before the internet and back then it was more difficult to get accurate information on trim levels.

jmonroe

There are? What?

C’mon you can’t be serious. You name it and people have had problems with new cars. If I have to list these for you, and I won’t, you are in complete denial. Even the mighty Honda’s have to have problems but none come from your store to hear you tell it. Once this word gets out you won’t be able to keep up with all the sales you’re going to get. Even people from the east coast will drive to the far north west for the perfect car.

Your dealership must be losing a lot of money paying service people to sit and wait for customers to show up. Wait, Honda’s don’t need warranty or out of warranty work, they’re perfect. On second thought send them home, they aren’t needed. I don’t think I’ve ever heard you say that Honda’s had a problem.

You might be able to pass this off to some people but I’ll NEVER buy it. Nobody is perfect not even Honda.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Honda’s lack reliability, quite the contrary, but they aren’t everything you make them out to be.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

As long as it has "D" on the shifter and possibilty of letting machine to decide when to shift, it's an automatic transmission - regardless of shifting mechanism or manual control option.

And the Lords people said "AMEN!"

isellhondas

" I am glad you are not the master technician at your dealership"

I'm glad I'm not too because I probably would be unable to track down vibrations, rattles etc.

What does that have to do with anything?

isellhondas

What in the world are you talking about?

Of course Hondas have problems sometimes. ALL cars can and will have problems some more so than others.

I am talking about NEW cars that have just had their Pre-Delivery Inspections. There BETTER not be any problems with these.

Other than a dead battery once in awhile I haven't had any problems with NEW Hondas that I've delivered.

Sometimes something will crop up within a few days and that is why we have warranties.

I only said that I see little benefit in driving a demo, THEN the new car a person is buying but I'guess that's just me.

And like I said, I rarely get such a request to do this.

snakeweasel

An Accord LX is an Accord LX and they all drive exactly the same. In 13 years I have never driven one that was one iota different than the others.

No two cars are ever exactly alike. One time many years ago I test drove the exact car I was going to buy, the thing shook like crazy at speeds over 35-40. They said that they would fix it and then I could take delivery. They never were able to fix the problem and I took a different car.

some 30+ years ago my sister took delivery on a car she didn't drive before. From the get go she had issues with that car, didn't get more than a few blocks away before she had to return.

I will always drive the car I am going to take delivery on before any paperwork is signed.

604doc

Wow, it really surprised me reading these posts that there are people who will test drive a car, but actually buy a different one. I'd like to drive the exact car I'm buying so that I could test out all the goodies. Of course, when I try on a pair of pants, I buy the ones I try on, not go and get a fresh pair from the rack!

Nelson

isellhondas

"No two cars are ever exactly alike"

I totally disagree. Maybe 30 years ago when assembly was inconsistant but not now, at least with the brand I sell.

If that car you drove shook like crazy, whoever did the PDI didn't do their job or they would have caught that. Maybe "many years ago" they didn't even do PDI's? I don't know.

I only voiced my opinion based on MY experience and I stand by that.

If you aren't comfortable unless you drive the car you are buying, no problem!

chikoo

" I am glad you are not the master technician at your dealership"

I'm glad I'm not too because I probably would be unable to track down vibrations, rattles etc.

What does that have to do with anything?

:confuse:

u r asking me that question?

read this post isellhondas, "Stories from the Sales Frontlines" #23498, 27 Dec 2007 1:58 pm

more specifically...

An Accord LX is an Accord LX and they all drive exactly the same. In 13 years I have never driven one that was one iota different than the others.

if you cannot find an accord in 13 years with any "irregular characteristics" of it's own, u are not too good at finding problems.

chikoo

This kind of sums up the Honda buyers demograhic.......People who worry about price, reliability and more than all that, word of mouth recommendation and resulting terrific resale value after that. Not the actual performance. I have seen Hondas with shaky steering, lumpy 4-cylinders, but yet the owners are "HAPPY" with their car. Guess what? none of them care since they are not stranded in the middle of the road. for them, that is what makes Honda a Honda.

isellhondas

I am just saying, I have never seen a new Honda that had been inspected to have a problem a customer would have been able to detect before delivery.

We do run a pretty tight ship though.

In the winter, we do get the occasional dead battery on cars that have been here awhile.

I said they all drive the same and they do!

isellhondas

But you haven't seen these problems on NEW Hondas have you?

I haven't.

snakeweasel

I have seen Hondas with shaky steering, lumpy 4-cylinders, but yet the owners are "HAPPY" with their car. Guess what? none of them care since they are not stranded in the middle of the road. for them, that is what makes Honda a Honda.

Not sure about you but I have went out to rescue a few Honda owners who suddenly found themselves without a working car that still talked up great and reliable their cars were. :confuse:

snakeweasel

My neighbors brand new Honda dropped its exhaust system between the dealership and his home.

mako1a

Bought a 2007 Shelby GT 500. Took me for a drive to show it off. I said bang second. He said "what do you mean?" Shall I demonstrate/ Sure. Adjusted mirror/seat. Belt on. Took off slow and gentle in first to about 30 then clutch in, gas to floor, pulled into second and dumped the clutch. Beautiful. Lots of tire smoke, a little getting sideways. Pulled nicely, plenty of power. But then I looked in the mirror. 1 tire track. 10 1/2 inches wide all alone. No left tire mark. I can't believe Ford sold a 5.4 L supercharged 505 HP car without posi (trac loc). What kind of garbage is this? Is his car defective? Is this normal? Ford guys, please step up and tell me it isn't so. Shelby GT 500 without limited slip? My suggestion was dump it and get a Vette. ps Red with black convertible top. Looks great, but no posi???

jmonroe

Of course Hondas have problems sometimes.

Are you saying this because I had to pry it out of you? Keep going, tell us more.

ALL cars can and will have problems some more so than others.

I should have known you’d put in a qualifier. But I’m sure the Holy Honda’s will always have less.

I am talking about NEW cars that have just had their Pre-Delivery Inspections. There BETTER not be any problems with these.

Those are the ones I’m talking about but then they didn’t come from your store.

Sometimes something will crop up within a few days and that is why we have warranties.

Sounds to me like your PDI guys missed something.

I only said that I see little benefit in driving a demo, THEN the new car a person is buying but I'guess that's just me.

From what I’m hearing right here, it must be you.

And like I said, I rarely get such a request to do this.

It must have something to do with the drinking water in the north west because here in the Burg it’s routine to drive what you buy.

jmonroe

obyone

When purchasing vehicles I noticed on the delivery checklist that the salesman uses there is a test drive "item" that needs to be checked off. I'm thinking it's important as on my last purchase I didn't test drive while the salesman asked at least 4 times to reconsider. I told him not to worry and if I didn't like the way it handled on my way out the driveway I would stop and ask him to unwind the deal before leaving the lot. I was joking, he wasn't laughing.

When I did take delivery of the truck and drove it on the freeway thinking to myself dang this truck rides like a one ton, if I had test drove it I probably wouldn't have bought it. After changing the rear shocks at a cost of a couple of franklins all is well. Course not many would change out the rear shocks at 200 miles.

madmanmoo

I guess it's somewhere in between. Here's a link to an insideline.com article.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=124017?tid=edmun- ds.il.home.photopanel..2.*

Regardless of our interpretation of the transmission, the vehicle is pretty incredible in regards to their numbers.

I'm a bit hesitant to accept all the new technology. Paddle shifters and launch assistants.... part of me believes that the computer is just taking away from the driver's communication with the vehicle and the overall driving experience. Then again, the launch assistant is literally launching you.

-moo

madmanmoo

I'll throw my opinion in here. I want all my customers to drive the vehicle they are buying before we sign paperwork. If ANYTHING is wrong, then I want to take care of it immediately or find another vehicle. This policy was at every store I've worked at.

I told this story before, but I'll quickly repeat it. When I was working at the Nissan store, a gentleman came in to purchase a Frontier that was our ad special. He did not want to drive it. We signed paperwork and completed the deal. He drove off the lot.

The next day, he calls us and complains about the tires. I was off and he just showed up at the dealership. He brings it into service. Turns out the tires had flat spots on them because of how long they it had sat on the lot without being moved. The service department dropped the ball and told him he would need to go to a tire store to get some new ones. (Service may have had something miscommicated to them.) Well, that didn't go over well and the deal was unwound.

If he had test driven the car the day he purchased it, I could have made sure everyone was on the same page. Service wouldn't have told a brand new customer to purchase new tires and the gentleman would have been happy.

-moo

cccompson

That's just weird because limited slip is supposedly standard equipment.

greanpea68

I am talking about NEW cars that have just had their Pre-Delivery Inspections. There BETTER not be any problems with these.

Isell,

I understand what you are saying. I once went on a swap about two and a half years ago. The car was PDI... but half way back the drive didn't feel right. I get out and the rear right tire only had one lug nut on it. It was the wheel lock. Luckily the store wasn't to far away.

Our guys I believe just go to the gas station and back. That is about a 3 mile drive. If your store is as thotrough as you say than I wouldn be worried about anything either.

I agree with you that same cars will drive the same. But people always want to preotect themselves. When ever I do a swap I have the customer inspect the car and ask if they want to test drive it. Half the people do and half the don't.

But you are right if something does go wrong that is what new car warranties are for.

GP

greanpea68

some 30+ years ago

Snake,

Seriously you can not compare 30 years ago to today. :confuse:

GP

jmonroe

The service department dropped the ball and told him he would need to go to a tire store to get some new ones. (Service may have had something miscommicated to them.) Well, that didn't go over well and the deal was unwound.

This raises an interesting question. Since the customer brought the vehicle back the next day, I’m guessing that the title wasn’t sent to the DMV that quick and again I’m guessing that this vehicle was sold as new.

Assuming that the over night owner didn’t live hundreds of miles away I could easily understand selling this vehicle as new and never titled. I wouldn’t think the dealer was trying to pull something over on the next buyer because this vehicle probably wouldn’t have had very many miles on it (no different than if you had taken it in on a dealer trade, that was driven in, and then went bad) and as long as the tires were replaced, I don’t see a problem doing this.

So, can you say how your store handled this?

jmonroe

madmanmoo

Sold as new to the next customer. The tires were replaced. It was sold as a loss leader and since it had never been titled, the first owner had a new vehicle.

The gentleman lived in the country so it did have a good bit of mileage on it. IIRC, it was in the neighborhood of 200.

On my current lot, we have several vehicles that Porsche execs drive and then return to us. (Porsche Cars North America is just down the road from us.) They are never titled and we sell them as demos. They will have anywhere from 1,000 to 6,000 miles on them when we sell them. The customer who purchases them will be the first owner.

-moo

isellhondas

You are a master of twisting things and, I'm getting tired of it.

This whole thing started when I simply said that I saw little value in a person driving the car they are actually going to buy. That's all I said.

I was talking about NEW cars and not USED cars and I went on to say that if a person feels compelled to do that, that is their decision.

I eliminate a lot of extra test drives by getting down the exact car they have expressed an interest in. If the know they want a silver EX CRV, then I will bring that one down for them to drive.

If they just say..." I'm just shopping and I thought I would try out a CRV", then I'll grab the closest one.

I am a VERY busy person at work and the fewer test drives I have to go on, the better but I'm happy to do whatever makes my customers happy and they know that!

isellhondas

I would say..." That is the first time I have EVER heard of such a thing"

But I'm sure nobody would believe me.

Or I could say I don't believe that ever happened.