Stories from the Sales Frontlines

danf1

The simple answer is you found a lazy salesperson. More complex might be that the particular dealership that you were in wouldn't allow trades. I doubt that in a high line store, but it is a possibility. More than likely it was pure laziness.

gogiboy

There is a sentence in amad's posting that was skipped over by most everyone, but offers a glimpse into his needs and psyche:

" He (the salesman) flat out lied when he said " he will do his very best to exceed my expectations" that was a flat out bald face lie."

The phrase "exceed my expectations" is both nebulous and hard to fairly evaluate. The salesman may have erred in using such a phrase--or may have been misquoted by amad. Whatever the case, it would seem very unlikely that anyone could even meet, let alone exceed amad's "expectations". If the salesman is a liar, as he proclaims, it seems likely that amad's doctor, accountant, business associates, even his dry cleaner are equally culpable in some larger scheme to mislead and defraud him.

Those of us who have participated in these forums have seen a number of amads come and go under different names, but they all use the same modus operandi: Complain vociferously that they were cheated, or at least misled. Pour vitriol on other members of the forum who choose to voice an opposing view of the situation . Mix well with an unhealthy dose of aspersions until a combustible situation arises. Then when the furor dies down disappear into the ether like a phantom.

In the end these disgruntled folks all blend together into a uniform toxic slurry that serves as a reminder of how skewed one's perceptions become when only our inner voice is consulted and trusted . The forum offers public, but anonymous, opportunity to be "right" or "heard"--at least temporarily-- then it's on to the next crusade.

Buying a car just isn't that painful--or at least it shouldn't be.

Gogiboy (not a psychologist, just an observer)

greanpea68

His neighbors avoid him like the plague and he has no friends other that the bikers.

Rofl... I don't think hwe is cool enough to hang with Biker's....

Maybe the BMX squad :P

GP

greanpea68

I am surprised we haven't heard from the chosen one. Maybe he moved on to his next mission.

GP

traindriver

Man Sues Suzuki Store, Wins
Dealership Ordered To Pay $1.6 Million

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cccompson

It would be nice to see what happens later because that guy will never collect anything remotely close to that (assuming he collects anything at all).

snakeweasel

His father was a car salesman. Before his father left the family, his dad brought him to work and showed him a shiny new car.

Somehow I more picture Danny DeVito in the movie "Matilda".

oldfarmer50

"...Plymouth Reliant...The head liner is thumbtacked in place. The AC just needs a shot of freon. The fuel gauge doesn't work..."

Amazing! You just described my son's car. 88' Plymouth Reliant. I was the one who thumbtacked the head liner back up. LOL You described it to a tee. The only thing you missed was the rusted out floor. I can't believe the thing still runs. Where did Chrysler buy the engines for those things?

snakeweasel

He heard there were rewarding careers in the court recording industry!!

If you mean a court stenographer don't laugh a good one can make some pretty good money.

oldfarmer50

"...Man sues store..."

Better not let amad1 read that.

andrae

....having been a lurker for over a year, I thought I'd try my hand at posting.

One question I have attempted to answer for myself is "Why are car sales people viewed as liars?".....well, what I came up with (I know this will be controversial) is that most are dishonest at some point during the buying process.

Here's the scenario:
Customer: What's your best price? (After test drive, small talk, etc...)
Salesman: $XX,XXX.99 (After "Checking with the manager")
Customer: That's too high!!
Salesman: "Well,what if I could get your payment to $XXX.99" or "What if I could get an extra $X,XXX off?" Would that work?

PAUSE: It's precisely at this point that the customer has been told that the salesman, or somebody in the dealership, lied. I deal with customers all day long. I sell industrial consumables as well as capital equipment. When I quote a price and am asked if I can budge, the answer is always NO!!! Not only does this gain us credibility, it builds trust because we explain to the customer/prospect that they should know when they're dealing with us, they are always being quoted the BEST price. Why can't this be the case when buying a car?

In my opinion, this is exactly the reason why car sales people are viewed as liars. As a customer, we know we can always get a better price than the one we're initially quoted. This builds distrust and indecision in the customer's mind. No matter how low you go the customer is going to wonder if they could get it even lower. Would a customer make a decision quicker if they were reassured the quoted price was the best price? I don't know for sure but it seems like it would sure be worth a try.

....just some thoughts.

I look forward to your responses.

roadburner

If you mean a court stenographer don't laugh a good one can make some pretty good money.

Well, not in Kentucky; in District Court(AKA The Trenches) we use audio transcription while Circuit Courts and higher get video transcription. Personally, I wish we still used court reporters; when the bloody transcription system crashes it takes 45-90 minutes to bring it back on line. I told one of the IT geeks that I didn't understand why it takes so long- if Scotty could get the warp drive on line in 15 minutes we should be able to get the audio system up in 20... :P

roadburner

Would a customer make a decision quicker if they were reassured the quoted price was the best price? I don't know for sure but it seems like it would sure be worth a try.

The customer will decide all right- he/she will decide to shop that price to ten other dealers.

madmanmoo

I'm sure that's true to a degree. Although, as Joel posted on another board, this works both ways. When a customer tells the salesperson that $XXX.xx a month is all he can spend and then walks away $50 more a month, it's the same thing. It's kind of expected from both sides in the negotiation price.

I think where the real anger gets stirred up is when a salesperson says they will do something and don't follow through. "Sure, we'll take care of oil changes for a year." And then you never see any of it. "Yes, this is the V6 model. Sign here." And then you drive home and discover that you've purchased a 4 cylinder. Blatant, outright lies.

Our best price is the price that both the seller and buyer are comfortable at. I hate telling customers "This is the best price!" I've drawn a line in the sand and there is no more negotiations. That's why I do my best to steer away from that quagmire, but I've been caught in it before. Other than the normal negotiation white lies, I do my best to be as upfront and honest with my customers as I can. A happy customer purchases more vehicles from you and refers people to you.

Those are my brief thoughts.

-moo

Edit: By the way, thanks for posting and posing your questions. They are certainly welcome here.

jipster

The big difference is that you are dealing with professionals. They are in the business of buying whatever you sell. The typical car buyer is an amateur who may buy a car once every 4 or 5 years. Hard to build trust with such a high turnover of salespeople.

But, the example you wrote about isn't what I'd call being a liar. It's playing the "game". The game is played that way in many other professions as well.

laurasdada

Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and no shame. My name is Ahmad Wan, of Middle Eastern/Asian descent. After having contacted Borg Motors (the ISM) regarding purchasing a specific vehicle, I jumped into my Enterprise rent a car and began my five hour mission to buy a car. I actually drove to a county far, far away...

Upon arrival, I could not find the ISM, so I began to call out his name, "Khan!!!" Finally, appearing almost out of nowhere, Khan greeted me, beaming a sparkling smile. "Sorry, Mr. Wan but the car you were looking for has been sold. Why don't we board this shuttle so that you may seek out new cars?" "Khan, what have you done to my car!" I exclaimed! Being an expert at the Vulcan Mind Meld, I knew for sure that he was a BIG, FAT LIAR!!! At this point, Khan turned me over to a salesperson, a Mr. Ferenghi.

Well, I could tell right away that this Ferenghi was going to be no more honest than Khan. I warned him that he did not want to face the same wrath as Khan... This Ferenghi tried to interest me in some fancier sets of wheels. Knowing what a liar he was, I told him that I was most interested in test driving a few of the fancier, more expensive models. Of course, I had absolutely no intention of buying from them. I hate liars and didn't want to be assimilated to the deceitful ways of Borg Motors. I"m sure you can see the logic in my thinking.

So, I spent those 5 hours driving and finally choosing the car I wasn't going to buy. After much negotiating with Ferenghi, he brought me the final offer from Khan (the car was, of course, the new Hyundai Project, Genesis). Ferenghi was sure he had the sale. However, his attitude changed after I told him, "Don't get cocky, kid!" I then proceeded to offer $5000 lower than their final offer. "Deal or no deal," I declared. "No deal!" cried the Ferenghi. "You never had any intention of buying this car, did you Ahmad Wan!" "No," I told him. Because I hate liars and all car dealer people are liars! You will not force me to buy a new car!"

Ever victorious, at warp speed I jumped into my Enterprise and headed back home, a county far, far away...

mackabee

Good story laurasdada, I was expecting a "TO BE CONTINUED" buy you resisted the temptation. Good, otherwise I would have consulted jmonroe or jipster to sue you for copyright infringement.
Mack

jmonroe

"Yes, this is the V6 model. Sign here." And then you drive home and discover that you've purchased a 4 cylinder. Blatant, outright lies.

A very greenpea salesman tried to do something like that to me back in the early 80’s when I was looking for a used car.

This Greenpea, no, not our greenpea, he knows better than to try to pull one over on jmonroe but this nitwit says this Bonneville has the GM V8, 350 CID engine and when I started it up I said that sounds like a 6 CYL to me. He assures me it’s an 8 and says lets open the hood and I’ll prove it to you. I said that’s exactly what I want you to do. Bingo, it’s a 6 CYL. He said see it’s an 8. :surprise: I said, “let’s make this real easy, count the spark plug wires”. Of course he can only count six but instead of saying I made a mistake, he says well it’s a BIG 6, listen to how it sounds. It took everything I and Son #1 had not to start laughing as we walked away and said thanks anyway.

As we turned and were walking away I took Mrs. jmonroe by the arm and said, “let’s go see what the next dealer has”. She says, “that looks like a nice car, what’s wrong with a BIG 6” ? :surprise: We were half way to the next dealer (on the other side of the Burgh) before I could break it down into terms she could understand.

jmonroe

laurasdada

No "To be continued..." Rather I would simply release "Car Trek IV: The Voyage Home."

Where, oh where, has our Mad One gone! Did the Good Host take him/her away from me?

madmanmoo

Wow.

ROFL!!!

That was awesome.



-moo

snakeweasel

stenographers are still used for depositions and such. A good one can make $80K a year or more, but thats the upper 5-10%. These people have to have an excellent ability to understand what people say, be able to accurately record it then transcribe it onto paper. These people are usually extremely well versed in the nuances of the English language, word usage, spelling and punctuation (they would put the gammer police here to shame ).

snakeweasel

I had the same thing happen at a Subaru dealer many a year ago. The salesman told me the car came in a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder or a 2.5 liter V6. We were on the sales room floor and he shows me the 2.5 liter "V6", while it was stamped 2.5 liter there were only 4 spark plug wires. This salesman then started looking for the other two wires. :sick:

But to be fair he did seem like he was new and could very well have mistaken larger meaning more cylinders. So I don't think he lied to me, just that he wasn't as up to speed as he really needed to be at the very least.

british_rover

while I was gone?

Any interesting trolls? New sales people? Outrageous sales stories?

laurasdada

BR, you simply must review posts by "amad1"

Unless, of course, "You can't handle the truth!" :P

jmonroe

Any interesting trolls? New sales people? Outrageous sales stories?

Yes, all of those but you're going to have to back up a few pages.

You otta have a few that you've been saving up.

jmonroe

andrae

roadburner - you may be right but give it a try. I once quoted a prospect on a piece of equipment the price being $20,000.00. The prospect looked me in the eye and said "I'm sure there's some wiggle room here." I responded, "No, we do not play those games. It would not be fair to you nor should you ever have to question wether or not you are getting the best price." The customer order 2 units on the spot.

When people make a large expenditure, they want to feel comfortable they are getting a good deal. I think the salesperson has a great influence in this area. I'm suggesting that the salesperson not wince when the customer balks at the price rather attack the objection head on, acknowledge the price is correct and sell the value the dealership has to offer.

Maybe I'm just different.

I was recently in the market for an SUV and contacted 2 dealerships. Dealership #2 told me they would beat dealership #'1's price guarunteed.

I never even stepped into dealership #2's showroom because their pitch sounded too gimmicky to me. I did lease an SUV at dealership #1.

Being in business, I know there are numerous ways to structure a deal and no deal will or should result in a negative gross profit. Based on dealership #2's phone conversation, I was convinced I might get a lower price but the overall cost of the deal would have been more.

andrae

Moo - first off, thank you for your many posts over the past year. They have been a joy to read.

I agree. Just over a year ago I walked into an Acura dealership without any intention of buying a vehicle. A sales lady walked up and asked if she could help me. Knowing a little bit about ups and strokes from this forum, I wanted to be respectful and told her I was simply "just looking". I didn't want to count as an "up" and have her lose out on the next "up" who was serious about buying and I certainly didn't want to waste her time.

After I told her I was just looking she persisted and asked "Do you think we could make a deal?" I responded, "Well, maybe. That would be up to you." She asked "What would it take?" I told her, "Take my existing car and put me in that TL for $XXX.99/month and you'll have a deal."

She went and "Checked with her manager", came back and informed me that he agreed to my offer and we could do the deal. I said OK, and to your point, her jaw dropped. As you stated, I'm sure she expected I wasn't being honest with her. I have to believe she thought I was going to grind it out with her. Looking back I probably could have but really, my time is worth so much more than the $10/month I could have saved by being "the north end of a southbound horse". One hour later I was driving home in my new car. The funny thing was, I really had no intention of getting a new car that day. I had just washed and gassed up my existing car.

andrae

Point taken...but why is it then that we don't negotiate everything?

I believe it's because people can accept the price when they know that's the price regardless.

Some people will be on the endless quest for the best price for EVERYTHING. Those people are typically miserable and spend so much time getting the best price they forget they're missing out on the most important thing of all, LIFE. The good thing for those of us in sales is they're easy to spot and we can decide not to deal with them if we choose.

madmanmoo

Thanks for the kind words.

Sounds like you're an awesome customer!

-moo

greanpea68

Where, oh where, has our Mad One gone! Did the Good Host take him/her away from me?


Great parody Lauras DAd.

LOL

GP

mackabee

I do have a minor in criminology. :shades:

greanpea68

Customer: What's your best price? (After test drive, small talk, etc...)
Salesman: $XX,XXX.99 (After "Checking with the manager")

When someone asks me whats my best price I always respond $500 over sticker :P

I than say afterwards that I don't ussualy get my way so I wouldn't worry about that. I than say really the only best price that I have is the one you'll purchase it for.

" The MSRP is $25855.... How close to that can you come?"

And that is when negotiations start. If someone wants a really great price though I will show a aged unit that is ussualy in the paper or on the internet. Nine out of ten times nobody wants that color :surprise:

But best price is always where the customer will buy the car.

GP

mackabee

You ran into a salesperson.
Mack :shades:

mackabee

The worst thing a car sales consultant can do is negotiate on the lot. I was taught early on in my career that you do not talk price on your feet only on your seat. Whenever I get someone that says "what's your best price?" I respond with "Is this the car you want to own or are you just fishing for prices?" That usually opens them up and they spill the beans. Most of the time they are not serious about buying a car or they may want to buy a car but have no idea what the market is like. I follow with "Let's find the vehicle that is right for you and let me worry about the price. I can guarantee you we won't lose your business over a couple of hundred dollars." Find the car that's right for them, test drive, sit them down and offer them a shot of tequila,, I mean a cup of coffee and get down to talk turkey.
Talking price on the lot does nothing but lose a salesperson gross profit.
Mack

verdugo

I hope a deep recession hits the car sales industry real hard, to teach them a lesson. A lesson that they will never forget. A lesson that will take away a bit of arrogance from them.

Wow. Do you realize that a "deep recession" will affect the entire economy not just the car industry? Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.

amad1, you seriously need to chill out. Seriously, it's not healthy.

verdugo

I think buyers sometimes forget that they don't hold all the cards. The dealer is the one with the car, and while they certainly want your money, they are only willing to cut the price so low to get a deal done.

If the customer has a) done his research, b) is reasonable, c) is in decent shape financially, d) does not need the car right away and e) he is not looking for the "hot" car of the moment, he does hold all the cards.

greanpea68

On Sunday I take a up 12:30pm. "Hello and welcome to Nissan world" I say to the customer.

He replies "I want to know what my trade is worth, I want to see the cloth in a 2009 Murano, also want to look at 2007 Muranos, and I want to look at Altima Hybrid."

I ask him what is the most important thing for him in his next new vehicle.

He says " I want cloth seats and exellent gas milage... nothing too fancy. I want your best deal and don't want to spend too much"

Well we have 5, 2007 Murano's left and 3. 2007 Hybrids left. These are going to be his best deals.

First he has a 2003 Nissan Murano with 101,000 miles on the clock for trade.

Before we do anything we look at a base model Murano S so he can see the cloth and I do a walk around.

I suggest driving it because it is very different from his current Murano. He say's " No... I am really interested in these Altima Hybrids"

So now I do a walk around on the hybrid we take it for a ride and he doesn't like switch back and forth from EV mode to gas mode. OK...

Keep in mind the car is for his wife.

We come back to the dealer and he wants lease payments and financing on these 2 vehicles that I show him plus also a fully loaded left over '07 Murano.

Two hours go by with negotiations. He is changing colors everytime I get close to making a deal.

Now the clock says 4:30pm And he switches gears one more time. He says what I really want is a black on black 2009 Murano Le.... Folks we just jumped in price on a car that we are getting sticker for or $500 off.

/he says " I want the new one for the same discount as a 2007 and KBB for my trade ($13,000)... I explained if you put 200k on the clock your trade is worth only about $500 less so you really can't go by KBB. By the way we were at $10,000 and that was all the money.

So in the end we made the deal after trade on a 2009 Murano we were at $300 under invoice. These Murano's are flying out the door. The customer left at 6:00pm. Five and a half hours but we made a deal :shades:

The customer's wife picked up the car tonight... Gave a first class 1 hour delivery. She was so happy she tells me that her parents want to buy a Altima. She said she will send them down this weekend.

GP

madmanmoo

'09 Murano under invoice already? Sweet!

Anything with leases yet?

-moo

mackabee

"Hello and welcome to Nissan world" I say to the customer.
Do you really say that?

Dang GP! That's a long time for a mini! I hope the customer at least tipped you or bought you dinner. You had a lot of patience with them I would have
quicker than you can say Nissan. I hate working Sundays to begin with and then getting a "Disneyland" customer is the worst. I got to give it to you, you hung in there and made a deal! Good Job!
Now go have some and have a few Just make sure you make it to work on time.

nyccarguy

918 miles? Why did the customer trade the car in? How much did you give the customer for it? I almost understand people getting rid of a car in a year, but 918 miles! I do that in 3 & a half weeks..

Keep in mind this is coming from someone driving an almost 6 year old Honda Prelude that just rolled over the 92,000 mile mark.

About blatant lies...my sister's fiancee sent his Dad to a Jeep Dealership for a Grand Cherokee a few years ago. He called the sales person he dealt with when he bought his Grand Cherokee. He said to the guy: "He's looking for a similar GC like mine." The salesman says OK, great I look forward to seeing him.

He ends up selling the guy a 2WD Liberty! In NY, a 2WD Liberty is USELESS when it snows. Now my sister's fiancee's Dad never asked if it was 4WD or not, but that's the whole purpose of buying a Jeep.

nj2pa2nc

excellent post-you win points for this one.

mikefm58

we were at $300 under invoice. These Murano's are flying out the door.

That doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing?

lrguy44

does not need the car right away

You should change need to want. In the real worlld want overcomes need most of the time.

snakeweasel

You should change need to want. In the real worlld want overcomes need most of the time.

Maybe so but if I want one I can always hold off until another day. But if I need one that forces my hand since I may need to have it ASAP.

madmanmoo

He had previously owned an '06 C2S and decided that he really didn't like the RR. We gave him strong money at just a few grand under original invoice.

I drove it after we finished the deal and felt a little seasick after the test drive. That's not a very good riding vehicle. And underpowered too. I was very surprised. Maybe I've gotten spoiled by the Cayennes.

-moo

jescue

Well, as you now know, There Is No Substitute.

madmanmoo

That's becoming more and more apparent.

-moo

stickguy

looks like a steel cage match coming. BR and LRguy vs. Moo and jescue.

I'm guessing the Prosche guys will zip all over the ring to stay out of trouble, and the LR twins will just try to plow right over the top of them.

jescue

Yes, but we too have locking differentials. Just more power to send to them. :P

joel0622

We had kind of the reverse happen to us one time back in the late 90's. I was not a manager then and was not involved in the transaction.

A little back ground, at the time we had one guy responsible for checking in new cars as they arrived, he assigned them stock #'s, put them in our computer system, and PDI'ed them.

A senior salesperson was selling a new Explorer to a customer. The guy had driven several and finally landed on a white EB 4X2. He kept going back and forth but finally decided to buy the 4X2 because he wanted the white with tan leather and we only had it in 4X2. Back in the day if you wanted to DX an Explorer you had to give up two to get one. Besides if the weather in Nashville is bad enough to need a 4X4 then their is nothing open to drive to any how.

They agreed on price and the guy bought the truck.

About 2 weeks later he comes in and says he wants to see the GM. Apperantley what happened is that when the PDI Guy put the truck in the system he put it in as a 4X4 and not 4X2 (this was before the days of the VIN Decoder).

So all of this guys typed paper work said 4X4. He knew damn good and well he bought a 4X2, the hand written buyers order that he signed stated 4X2. The delivery check list that had N/A written by 4x4 operation was even signed by him. He said it was dark out and could not see the form well

After a couple of weeks of arguing we ended up writing him a check for the difference in a 4X2 and 4X4.

I hope that guy can sleep well at night.