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So after about a month of looking, I found one at a local used car lot. The dealer opened about 6 months earlier, had plenty of inventory, and they had ads in auto trader that they were no commission store. Anyway, they had 2 '02 Explorers, one XLS base 4x4 and one XLT with leather, 3rd seat, rear A/C, tow package, Moonroof, running boards etc. Both had 32K miles, XLS was $16K and XLT was $22K. I was there on Friday night and they were pretty busy. GM showed me the car and then salesperson took over - call him John. I looked at both, but my budget called for XLS, so we took a test drive. Everything worked, it drove nice, I had all the options that I needed. So we sat down to make a deal. I didn't have a trade-in so it was fairly simple deal. I had my financing but John asked if he can try to get me a better rate (hard to beat 5.49). OK. So they are running my credit and what not, and I'm just sitting looking around at other deals going around. They had about 8 desks and all of them where full of people. John comes back, he said he couldn't get me anything better, but he wanted to try couple more places the next day. I said OK, we finalized the numbers in the meantime - $15,200 with tax and all. I signed the papers, filled out the temp registration, and John went to get the keys to have the truck cleaned up. This is where it gets interesting. John comes back with the GM. He says we have a problem, the couple next to us signed the papers on the XLS about 30 min earlier. GM jumps in and he says that they are really sorry about this but they have to honor the other couple's deal. So I asked what will happen to our deal. He said, as he laid the keys down, that they will have to redo the paperwork and change the VIN number and model, because I'm going to drive off with the loaded XLT for the price of XLS. I was floored.
I ended up using my financing, the truck didn't explode nor did it give me any problems except some wheel bearings and rear springs. It's about to turn 100K and the final payment will be made in 7 days.
The dealership is still in business and I made $800 in last 4 years for sending people there.
Reason I've told this story is two fold. I don't think I want to part with my Exploder, Versa is nice, but Explorer was such a great deal and served me so well. Second, maybe I'm lucky, but I am yet to have such a horrible car buying experience where I would feel the need to call "those" people names and go all "Jedi" on them.
I sold an 08 Camry a few months back to a customer that had their car in the body shop. He was not happy with the repair job (mismatch on the painted bumper) So he left the car there and the GSM asked me to get him in a car for the weekend. I asked what he wanted to drive and he said a Scion xB. I grabbed an xB and when we were in it he asked if he could drive a Hybrid Camry instead. "No problem. I'll get you a Camry." He brought the car back a few days later and told me he would probably end up buying the gas version and he would give me a call.
A couple of days go by and I call him and he tells me he's been working deals with a couple of my competitors and wants me to get the deal so he asks if I can beat their deal. He tells me he's looking at an 07 LE and they quoted him xxxx. "Give me a few minutes and I'll call you right back." We are all out of 07's so I tell the NCM that I have a customer ready to buy and give him the figure he gave me. Not only do we beat the deal by $200 bucks but I get him an 08 LE with stability control. When I get on the phone and give him the good news the line is silent for what seems like 1 minute. "Let me get this straight. You are going to sell me an 08 with stability control and beat their price??:"
"I sure am. I'm standing by the car right now and checking the mileage. It has 2 miles on the odometer." I hear him in the background telling his wife the car has 2 miles and it's an 08. "Let me call you back in a few minutes. I have to call the other guy and let him know that I will not be buying the car from him." he replies. "What time do you want to pick up the car?" I ask. "We'll be there around 8pm. It's that too late?" he asks, "If you could get here around 7 or 7 thirty it would be better. Usually it takes anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to finish up the paperwork if we are not busy." I respond. "Ok, will be there at 7 thirty."
:shades: Done deal.
I was sure the story would end up with the other salesman telling your customer that you were a lying crook who was feeding him a line of bull just to get you back. The customer then buys an 07 with 1200 miles on in and a bunch of add-ons. He gives the other guy a perfect CSI and then goes on "MY Salesman Mis-lead Me" and tells all about the bad salesman who tried to con him into buying an 08.
I guess I'm just getting too cynical.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Not possible.
Forewarned is forearmed & all that.
It's been said that cynics are mostly disappointed idealists. I'm not going to argue with that. I used to (long, long ago) believe that we were all in this together and that people were trying to help each other.
Lately, not so much.
Mack
Mack
Every sales person ( or any good sales person ) knows that. I know that when I let someone go on a new car I better let them out at the best number. If a another dealer wants to loose more money than it is up to them. This on new cars.
Used cars are different. No two used carss are the same. :surprise:
GP
How can you tell it is Presidents Day Weekend?
answer: Everyone is busy. Got to go
Anywho, I posted this on another forum, Madmanmoo suggested I do so here, too. As I am a laydown for any car salesman, I shall do as he suggests and at MSRP. And note that the following model has had paint and fabric sealant applied, it has been pinstriped and rustproofed and has had the warranty extended to 6 years or 100,000 yawns (whichever comes first):
Apropros of nothing, just a slice o' small town life to tell:
Upon returning from the swim meet and consuming left over pizza, it was on (for Dad and Jason) to the annual Cub Scouts Pinewood Derby! For those not in the know, scouts are given a Pinewood Derby car kit (a block of wood, four nails and four plastic tires) and must put together a car to be raced down a 30' long track, gravity being the engine. Four cars at a time, round robin against your fellow Den members. Top four from each Den move on to the semi-finals with the top four in the semis vying for the top ranking. Cars built range from yes, that looks like it was built by a father/son, to no kid touched that car to, "So, how long have you worked at NASA?"
Last year was an embarrassment (if it is possible to be embarrassed at such an event?) as Jason's car finished no better than third in each of his four first round robin races. So, his car was going nowhere but to the practice track of shame to be ridiculed by the rest of the cars from The Isle of Misfit Toys. Jason recovered rather quickly from this shame (I believe he was over it before we actually raced...) whilst I would not know of such a crushing defeat again until this past Super Bowl (almost over it, not quite, getting there... Just flashbacks now....) and had this black Pinewood Derby cloud hanging over my head (it's rather crowded over my head, black cloud-wise...) for the past year.
2008 would be different, I vowed. So, all through January and February I spent literally an hour of solid research, planning, cutting, polishing and wondering what this tool is for as I produced a car that could proudly be held aloft, admired and noted, "Yes, this is definitely a Pinewood car that a father with limited tools and talents and his 9 year old son built!" Jason asked if he could do some cutting and I said of course, thrilled he was so into this. After about 9 seconds of sawing, he noted it was difficult and went back to watching Sponge Bob as I continued to be tortured by a small block of wood. But when I had completed the build, I handed the now somewhat more "wedge-ish" block of wood to Jason and told him he was responsible for giving the car its personality. He would paint it! We discussed a "wedge of cheese look" or "pizza slice." I left him to ponder this. He spent a half day release from school afternoon painting the car and upon my return home from work, he showed me the car: It was green with some black, red and white. Ok, we're the Eco-friendly racer instead of "Cheese Racer..."
So, a bit tired, we arrived at the race venue yesterday. After admiring some of the more ornate and creative cars, it was time to race. I haven't been this nervous since the Pats gave the Giants the ball back with over two and a half minutes left in the game...see, another flashback. Anyway, after a last minute inspection, the car was placed on the track along side the three other cars (one beautifully crafted as a Dragon, that is one talented 9 year old...) and the race began. Approximately 3.5 seconds later, we had won! And we won the second heat. Came in second in the third and third in the fourth heat. I theorize that my intricately polished and angled wheels had become a bit skewed slowing us a bit in races 3 &4, I should have been quicker in the pits with my tool belt... And my lethargy could have cost us, but:
We are now tied for fourth with 13 point, vying for the last spot in the semis. So, a one race runoff with the aforementioned Dragon car! I inspected/adjusted the wheels and released the car to Jason for the race. And... we slayed the dragon! 'Twas truly beauty that killed the beast! Jason was pretty excited at this point, as was I. I could taste the sweet nectar of vindication (tasted a bit like Gatorade). Worst to first, I have a dream!
On to the semis, four races against the other top 19 cars (of an original field of ~ 80 cars). Well, if there was an award for consistency, we would have won as Jason's car placed second in all four of his races, giving us 12 points and an overall 8th place finish.. Had we been able to garner a couple of firsts, a different story. End of a dream as only the top four move on to the finals. But, both father and son were pleased, proud, exhausted and thrilled with this miraculous turn around from the ignominy of the 2007 race.
By now, I'm sure you're on your feet standing and cheering, Rocky Balboa-like. And, there will be a rematch next year... great.
Or you're wondering how to get the last few moments of your life back...
Jason proudly accepted his "2008" Finalist trophy along with an award for "Best use of stickers" (I cut up assorted return address labels w/American flags, Olympic rings and a doggie and slapped 'em on the car to tug at the heart strings of the crowd). We finally returned home around 5pm to the proud squeals of delight from Mom as we held high the "finalist" trophy. Daughter, well, we hadn't seen her since the swim meet ended. I believe she sequestered herself downstairs with computer, cell phone and TV...
Thanks for your rapt attention, I hope you enjoyed this tale of greed, lust and redemption. Back to reality tomorrow. But for now, we're #8!!
Looking forward to the Sales Stories...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Here's the pic you took of me at the dealership two Saturdays ago. It's on my carspace now on the blog. I've made you famous!
Congrats on your great victory. I have some fond memories of dad and I (mainly dad) building a Pinewood Derby car. I seem to remember winning something that I was very proud of. I think it was made out of plaster, LOL. The secret to good speed is graphite lube on the wheels not oil.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
First.. we have to go back over 40 years, to my ignominous pasting at the Pinewood Derby... Even though I had a pretty car, it seems that a wedge shape, and keeping your weight within .01 of the 5 oz. limit was the key...
So, fast forward 35 years, when my own son is in the Pinewood Derby.. At last, sweet vindication.. Remembering my lessons from all those years ago, we work hard at keeping frontal area down, and weight up.. But, what's this? I have to buy a steering alignment rack? Oooookay..
Comes race day.. another pasting... That's when the boys in the know tell me... Graphite lube.. (after their kids kick our butt, of course).
I hate the Cub Scouts...
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Science olympiad operates in the same way.
I thought these were supposed to be for the kids to build and learn.
PS. Polishing the nails' metal where it serves as a hub also helps. Turning the provided wheels to smooth them and remove a ridge down the middle also helps. I'm not convinced frontal area has other than minimal impact on air friction reduction. I would also shape the rear sort of Murano-like for reducing air turbulance at the rear causing negative pressure--if you believe in frontal resistance as a factor. I also believe weighting the car for the correct center of gravity front to rear will minimize friction as the car rotates and bumps the side of the front wheels against the tracks as they keep the wheels going forward. It's the torsional force rubbing the wheel against the guide track that I'm talking about.
Yes. I've been involved with Pinewood Derby. Can you tell the neurosis is there?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes, especially when you hear tales of computer assisted design and wind tunnel testing!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
It goes with the territory. It's happened to me before and it's happened to every salesperson in the world.
in response to mikefm58 who wrote:
When he said "Let me call you back in a few minutes. I have to call the other guy and let him know that I will not be buying the car from him.", aren't you wondering if he's just going to shop that price around? I'm sure that could easily happen.
I was talking about the way that you enabled a buyer to waste the time of another sales person, not shopping the price around. Sorry you took it as lecturing and criticism, it was not intended that way. If that's how you choose to view it then so be it.
Oh gimme a break, sales is a "slightly" competitive profession, not every potential sale leads to a final sale. If Mack could beat the guy's price by 200 bucks AND put him in a newer model year then this guy won't be in sales very long. The guy asked Mack to beat the price because he wanted to bring him the business, what's he supposed to say, "Gee, I really don't want the other sales guy to lose you, go do business with him"?
Service writer says they're swamped and that he'll have a "loaner" ready for me in a few minutes. Talk a little more to my sales guy. He asks the service writer what they're giving me to use while my car is being "primed and buffed". Only thing they have left that day was a used 325i.
Sales guy tells the service writer "that won't do". He heads into the showroom.
Comes out about 5 minutes later and asks if I'm going to be driving a lot while my car is being serviced.
"Nope....driving to my office (about 11 miles away) and back here to pick up my car after it's finished".
"Would you mind driving a 335i?"
Nope....would love to."
He gives me the keys to a brand spanking new one with 37 miles on it.
Aside from the interior being 99% identical to my 330i, there's that "badder" motor in the 335i. It is sweet, and very fast (my 330i is no slouch, either).
I take a longer route to work just to spend a little more time in the car.
I finally come back to the dealership after my work day is done (declining their offer to have a "runner" come pick up their car, and drop mine back off to me).
Sales person sees me pull in. Comes out of the showroom as I'm gathering my coat and brief case out of the loaner.
"Whad'ya think?"
"You've got yourself a nice 3 series that's mighty good".
"Wanna trade"?
There was about a 30 second pause where I was actually thinking of saying "show me the numbers". But, I gathered my wits about me and said, "thanks, but no thanks".
I can see where putting people in a nice car when they come in for service could sell a good amount of iron. At least, it's a tempting proposition. The loaner is nicer, smells new.
I get in my car to drive away after service, and I have another "moment" where I almost get out and ask for "numbers", again.
Instead, I drove home in my "klunker".
long story short, after she has a fit in the showroom, i speak to the manager and the owner, and we decide to use one of her "contacts" to buy a used car from another dealer that is exactly what this lady wanted, and pick it up and deliver it to her. so same day, off i go, pick up the mustang, and bring it back...mind you, we're talking used car here. she was happy that we went through that to make everything work out in the end. and she got a killer price on it, and a car with fewer miles than the one we originally had.
second story, a family comes in to buy a sentra for their daughter - it will be her first car. They decide on a 1.8s automatic, so i run out and grab the stock number and run the numbers. everything works out great, and they will be back tomorrow to pick it up (our store was small, same day deliveries were not common for us).
well, turns out that the car that i "ran the numbers" for was a stick, not an automatic, so i let the GM know, and we decide to give them the automatic one for the same price that we gave them (unknowingly) on the manual one. I don't remember the price difference at the time between manual and automatic, but being as though we were at a nothing deal on the manual anyways (there isn't a whole lot of money in the sentra) they ended up with a fantastic deal on the automatic. they never knew, but i sure did!
-thene :-)
-moo
That story is awesome. As you said, just a nice slice of life there. AND it was car related.
-moo
-moo
Yeah, that’s what I thought too and even after son#1 lost miserably at those derby’s because he wasn’t a master “pine wood car builder”, like most of the fathers in the competition, I let him do all the work himself. Don’t get me wrong, I showed him how to do everything that was required while I worked on scrap pieces of wood from under my tool bench. Showed him how to use a chisel, sandpaper, paint, etc. He practiced a few times and then went to work on the real thing. I have to admit, it was pretty good work for a 9/10 year old but not nearly good enough for some of those professional car builders and I told him the second year not to expect any better results but to have fun doing the project.
Sure enough he was soundly beaten the second year too. After the event he asked the kid who won how he had done it. Before the kid had a chance to answer, the father says, “sonny, you just have to work hard, it takes time” and that’s all the advice he got. As we walked away, I said to my son “don’t worry about it, you just learned another lesson in life”. He said, “what, to be a good sport about losing”? I explained it to him and I know it didn’t make him feel any better. This is one tough world for kids that age to get a grasp on.
As we are leaving the school, that same night, the father of the winner comes over to me and says, “hey buddy, I understand you know something about the ignition system on GM 8 cylinders, is that right”? I’m sure you know how I answered him. Yes, I said it. How could I have forgotten his words of wisdom from only 30 minutes ago? So, I answered him, “You just have to work hard, it takes time.”
On the ride home that night, my son said, “at least I do better in school than those kids who won some races tonight and I’m a better baseball player than them too”. Finally he got it; their fathers probably didn’t help them with their home work and they damn sure weren’t allowed to play baseball for them.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
-moo
Spoken like a true salesman. Always selling, selling, sel...
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
-moo
I really didn't spend too much time or money (actually, the only $ I invested in the car was the twelve pennies I used for weight in the car!) on the car, just more than last year. And this year I did encourage my now 9 year old to help more. He did do all the painting and attempted to do some cutting. I'm probably not going to invest too much $ in a bunch of tools I won't use, I value my fingers too much!
I did ask, after last year's poor showing, other folks for advice. Some of the fathers were as mentioned in a story above, secretive. But, for those in the know, the secret word is "friction." "Friction" for lack of a better term, is bad. "Friction" does not work (for derby cars)... So, I think our success this year was simply that I did polish the axles (nails) and reduced somewhat the surface friction of the wheels. And, my car weighed "only" 4.8oz. I wonder if I added another penny or two...?
The amazing thing is the winning car. It really looked like a kid worked on it. It appeared that they simply cut the block in half and, using clay?, built a mini-pyramind and Sphynx looking thing and glued 'em on and painted the whole thing a bit sandy looking. And the car flew! But to look at it? You'd never have guessed...
I'll believe that a lot of time was spent on the axles/wheels as that car ran as straight as an arrow down the track, it didn't appear to bump against the center rail. No friction...
Oh, well. Wait'll next year!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Wow. With Wright Patternson AFB here I'd be surprised if that didn't occur with parents in the area who work at the base! I hadn't thought of wind tunnel.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Don’t feel so deprived. Your time is coming; it does for all parents.
Sometimes I look at what my sons have accomplished and I hurt my back from patting it so hard. Then there are the times I can barely sit down from all the kicks I’ve given to myself.
It will never cease to amaze me how the same kid can be so right and then be so wrong. That’s the “lesson” I’m still learning but I’ll take it. When you stop learning, you’re not here anymore.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
LOL
GP
Good lesson, though a tough one.
Sounds like a great son!
I would add to this "or whose father lacks any useful skills or tools with which to help the son". My own father, bless his soul, just didn't have the requisite background or tools help me build anything, but a poor copy of the diagram that was on the kit (which looked like some 30s roadster). Not only was the car not aerodynamic, it was undercut by a paint application that made the unsanded surface similar to a honeycomb or emery board. Naturally, we were third or fourth in every heat.
To make matters worse, I grew up just outside of Detroit and a healthy percentage of the Big 4 white collar workers, including designers and engineers, were busily raising families in mid-60s suburbia away from the crime infested areas of downtown Motor City--and this was before the riots of 67. Two or three of the glossy lacquered beauties were so futuristic they would probably not look out of place in the races of today, but were leagues beyond what an average kid could imagine even with parental assistance. Even so, I have a fond memory of my father helping as best he could, but that experience was likely tempered by the post-race realization that even with my dad's help we were no match for the competition--and what kid wants to make that discovery about their parent?
I drifted away from cub scouts not long after that, but I seem to recall those same two or three kids taking the top slots the next year as well. Interestingly, I've ended up in a filed that requires considerable imagination, craftsmanship and the ability to manipulate a wide range of tools. I guess the cliche is true: Necessity is the mother of invention.
Gogiboy
He is. Regardless of what I sometimes say about him.
Thanks,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was involved in Scouting from the age of 6 till I left for the Army at age 18, and in my 12 years of scouting which include 9 Derby's I never saw a kid real worried about it, though I saw more then one parent make an [non-permissible content removed] out of themselves.
My dad helped me with mine, as I would suspect 90% did. It is part of the tradition of Scouting helping young men bond with there Fathers.
No different then Little League BB, the parents ruin it for the kids.
I’ve already said my son knows what that feels like.
...but that experience was likely tempered by the post-race realization that even with my dad's help we were no match for the competition--and what kid wants to make that discovery about their parent?
That may be the part that was the hardest for my son to accept. Not that I couldn’t have built it better than most fathers at doing the kids job. But that I wouldn’t. I may have even won a race or two but I surely wouldn’t have been last. He knew if I built it he would have had a pretty good chance of winning.
It almost made me stand up and shout, “OK dad’s let’s all go home and build another one of these beauties and we’ll meet back here in two hours for the “Dad’s Run-off”. But I didn’t do that either.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Can someone tell me what a FAIR trade in about would be. It is loaded one owner never wrecked in excel condition. Has 55000 freeway miles, 5.3L V8. I live in Arkansas. It has most all of the options except leather interior.
I just want to trade it in on a Toyota. I had a Toyota and then made the mistake of getting back into domestic.
Can someone help?
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Just look above the "post a message" box and make sure you provide most of the requested info to help the experts give you an idea of what it's really worth.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
The customer call's in and say's "I want your best price" which immediately tells me that they have done 0 research and wouldn't know what a good deal on the car was if it bit them in the @$$
So the desk refuses to give a price because the customer isn't sitting in front of them. I'm just caught in the middle pulling my hair out.
And this is with a customer that I thought I had decent repoir with. They had a great test drive, said they liked me and wanted to buy from me. But they will buy from my competitor to save $50.00 bucks.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
-moo
Have you test driven the vehicle yet? If so, then is this particular vehicle the one you're looking to purchase? If not, then give them rough numbers and make sure they understand that you're not drawing a line in the sand. There is room to maneuver if needed. That's a tough spot to be in though.
(Sorry if I'm insulting your sales knowledge. You may have been doing this longer than me.)
-moo