Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jmonroe

It was a Mitsubishi product (I think), and truly, truly a crappy little car..

According to the Click and Clack article, Chrysler had the Plymouth Arrow built by Mitsubishi because they didn’t have a fuel efficient car to compete with the other car manufacturers during the gas crisis in the late 70’s.

They probably weren't safe when new, and definitely wouldn't be now..

They said that too. You read the article didn’t ya? :shades:

jmonroe

mackabee

Very well put Joel. I resemble that remark! LOL
mACK :shades:

mackabee

We have a 2006 Hyundai Elantra GLS tha I can make you a great deal on. It does have a salvage title but the money you'll save is unbelievable! 14k miles retails for 11k and can be yours for $6800.00 out the door! What do you say? we got a deal?
Mack :lemon:

kyfdx

Nope.. didn't read the article.. but, I'll probably see it when I finish reading the paper..

But, in the fall of 1976, I was shopping for my first new car, and actually had a deposit down on an Arrow.. So, I remember them well..

Mustang II? That's what I ended up buying... so, I really know crappy cars.. :surprise:

jmonroe

You are just living in a stereo type that I face every day.

If you don't drive a Honda or a Toyota then as far as the Metro sexual class of America is concerned you are a, Red neck, gas guzzling driven,baby seal clubbing,..

Man...I knew you guys in the biz were low-lifes but not to this extent.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

"...cigarette smoking...Republican..."

The only two groups which people are allowed to hate anymore...car salespeople are beloved by comparison.

BTW, the car I was thinking of was the Plymouth Acclaim. I'm only a little senile.

jmonroe

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but the times of these posts for the last day or two are all whacked-out.

I think Edmunds has to wind their computer or put in a new battery. :confuse:

And before anyone says it...yes, I paid my dues on time. :P

jmonroe

gogiboy

"Do you guys really remember the Plymouth Arrow? "

Kyfdx--

This question might better appear on another forum, but I wondered if any of the salesfolk have been selling long enough to have taken a Plymouth Crickett as a trade? That was my wife's first car in the mid-70s (before I met her). I don't believe that Chrysler made it for more than a couple of years around the early 70s. I"ve checked a few times, but have never seen one on eBay. Can't imagine anyone wanting one for "nostalgia" or any other purpose and I think it was too early to have been sent to Korea for reconstitution as something else.

She eventually replaced it with a fine Ford product: the 1974 Maverick with three-on-the-tree. I did drive the Maverick periodically and actually liked it; well, maybe "liked" is too strong a word.

Gogiboy

tidester

the times of these posts for the last day or two are all whacked-out.

.. .yes, I paid my dues on time

Well, no, actually you didn't! Our records show that you paid your dues tomorrow so as of this momemt you are in arrears and late charges apply. :P

Seriously, the problem has been noted and our computer staff will be tracking it down.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

Kirstie_H

or...
we're in the process of moving our servers to the Virgin Islands to permit automotive-related gambling on-line

houdini1

Add "global warming denying" and you will have described me to a "T".

imidazol97

>of moving our servers to the Virgin Islands

More auto industry-related jobs leaving the country. :confuse: Oooops, wrong forum; that goes in politics.

isellhondas

A lot of trouble?

Me too. Nine tickets in one year.

Three of those in the same week and two of those on the same day by the same cop.

Funny now but not at the time!

isellhondas

Hey Mack...

You might want to be careful about what you say in a public forum.

You never know who might be reading, buddy.

parviz

I think that is mostly to protect the used car buyers. Some rotten apples, spoil the whole thing for everyone. In California, for example, there is a 3 day cooling off period for the used cars, for a $45? fee, but from what I have heard some "auction" used car dealers would rather not mention the cooling off period to the buyer, even at $45 income, for whatever reason that you might imagine. the law would require them to notify the buyer of their options to purchase.

roadburner

It was a Mitsubishi product (I think), and truly, truly a crappy little car.. First year was 1976, and probably gone by 1980? Doubt I've seen one since 1990.. They probably weren't safe when new, and definitely wouldn't be now..

For a good comparison, think Mustang II..

The regular Arrows weren't too exciting, but the 1979 and 1980 Arrow GT 2.6 and Fire Arrow were actually decent cars:



The 2.6 four was good for a 10 second 0-60 time, which wasn't bad for the time. You also got a five speed manual and disc brakes at all four corners. The interior wasn't half bad either:



The cars were also popular-and successful-in SCCA pro rallying. True, they weren't classic automotive designs, but the 2.6 cars were a bright spot in the dismal automotive days of the late 70s.

jmonroe

Well, no, actually you didn't! Our records show that you paid your dues tomorrow so as of this momemt you are in arrears and late charges apply.

Great. Now you tell us; Edmunds is owned by the banking industry.

When I've read the fine print of our credit card, that's exactly how they post payments to our account. :mad:

jmonroe

venture

I don't know if anybody took the time to google the stuff I mentioned but you would be amazed at all the compliance issues.

I did Google it and it made my brain hurt, but I didn't see anything about having to offer the items to 100% of the people. There was a lot of stuff about Truth in Lending, etc.

I gave up after about an hour. :sick:

mackabee

You're right. I'll put a lid on it.
Mack

otto8

The Plymouth Cricket is the brand name used for the Hillman Avenger sold in the US market from 1971 to 1973 by the Plymouth division of Chrysler Corporation. A total of 45,000 units were sold which were then offered in four door, deluxe and wagon models. The car did not sold well in the US market which leads to its elimination in the Plymouth line-up in 1973. However, production of the car in Canada continued under the brand name Cricket Formula S.

jmonroe

The car did not sold well in the US market which leads to its elimination in the Plymouth line-up in 1973.

Phew…saved by the bell. If they went out that early they were made into Honda’s maybe even Toyota’s.

No chance they would have made it to the Throw-Away production line in the late 90’s/2000’s.

jmonroe

wlbrown9

Hum. I would think most of the Metro Sexual folks in Nashville would be out around Vandy, maybe a few in state goverment very few in the Country Music Business. I guess Red neck, gas guzzling, etc. would cover about 75% of Tennessee residents...not sure about the Republican part, but just about all the rest would fit. FWIW, Memphis is probably less civilized than Nashville :-)

good day,
Bill in Memphis

graphicguy

kyfdx....even with that V8 in those Mustang IIs, how much trouble could you possible get into? Didn't they have something in the neighborhood of 120HP....for a V8? :surprise:

BTW...did you hit the auto show?

While not one of the "big shows", SW OH had their annual auto show this past weekend.

They had the Challenger there. While I'm certain it will run like a scalded dog when it hits the streets, I was underwhelmed with how it looked. One of the few cases where a car looks better in pictures than it does in person. Interior was a dissappointment, too. Kind of looked like the cost cutting has caught up with Chrysler.

Same with Mercedes. Sat in the new "C" series. F150s had better materials in them than the Benz did.

The good?

Mustang Bullit....very nice. what a muscle car should be.

Just on looks alone, I'd take a Lincoln MKX over a Lexus RX 350.

Maserati? If I had $120K-$150K laying around with nothing to do, I might want one of those quatroportes parked in my garage.

Is there really a difference between an Audi A4 and a VW Passat? Aside from the grill?

Cadillac CTS? Showing my prejudices here, but for $40K, there are a lot of other cars I'd rather have. For $35K, I'd perfer a G35 over the CTS.

BMW 135 series....mmmmmmmm, very tasty if you don't carry anyone in the back seat.

I actually thought the Mini Clubman S would be an ideal car for me.

Got a demonstration of Ford's Sync.....very slick. They're supposed to be sending me $75 for sitting through the demo, too. Fusion and Edge aren't bad looking cars. Look to be put together well, too. Malibu, while not my cup-o-tea, looks to be very nice for the $.

The Lincoln full size (coming in June, I think) is quite a stunning looker.

I'll say this, GM and Ford don't look to be sitting out this round. Their cars, from a build standpoint (don't know what they drive like) are right there with their competition. I liked the NIssans (Infinitis), too. The EX35 hits right at the center of the soccer mom demographic. Altima is a nice piece for the money.

Hyundai Genesis is going to give some high line marks fits, if they price/discount them as aggressively as Hyundai usually does (RWD, 375HP V8). Clearly, they're taking bullseye aim at Lexus.

With the probable exception of Chrysler, I think the domestics are going to be just fine, based on what I saw at the show.

Mercedes has lost its way (just like Daimler did with the merger of equals with Chrysler).

Toyota seems to have caught the GM "flu". Lots of trucks. They missed the truck boom by about 3 years. F150 or Silverado vs Tundra. I'll take either of the domestics over the Toyota offering. Highlander? No thanks. FJ? Double no thanks (but I'd probably prefer it over any Jeep).

$40K for an Avalon...wow!!!!!!!!!!! :surprise:

I was quite surprised how much I liked the Lincolns (save for the really aged Town Car). Selling price around here for an MKZ is about $35K, all loaded up. Looks nice. Built nice. Feature rich. For a few thousand more, you can get the Lincoln crossover....MKX all loaded up. Pretty impressive.

The Accord coupe was really good looking. Accords are still the king of middle of the road sedans. Followed closely by the Malibu. Never thought I'd say that.

Ideally, I'd have a Mini Clubman S for daily commute. Mustang Bullit for my muscle car fix. Maserati Quatroporte for tooling around on weekends. And, a Lincoln MKX for slogging through the snow. Lessee....all that would set me back about $250K, according to my calculations.

stickguy

we must think alike. Just about all of your observations are the same as what I came up with after touring the Phila. show.

IMO, the Malibu blew away the benz interior. the C class seemed liked an Avenger by comparison. The Ford stuff also looked pretty nice.

mackabee

I've been to Memphis long time ago, visited Graceland and some of the other tourist spots. Never been to Nashville but I hear it's the country music capital of the world! So anyway, Joel how much will a Ford Fusion set me back? I got to have a moonroof, V6, cloth or leather is fine. Been reading lots of good stuff about this car. My first car was a 64 T-BIRD so I do have a soft spot in my heart for Fords.
Mack

jipster

Are these guys suppose to be educated in basic automotive repair? I took the MPV in for an oil change a couple days ago. The service writer came up to some guying sitting next to me an informed him that he needed new rear brakes and rotors. The customer asked for a reason why... a few other low tech type questions. The service writer started stammering kindergarten stuff about how brakes stop the car, it's dangerous, and they use quality parts, and said they're hourly rate on brakes is lower at $75 an hour. (Service departments have different rates for different components? That's a new one on me.) Anyhow, as Popeye would say, "How Embarr-[non-permissible content removed]-kins!" :sick:

graphicguy

stickguy....forget for a moment the price differential, the Malibu's interior alone would make me choose it over a Benz "C" series.

You start optioning the Benz, just a little, and the price differential becomes huge. I noted the hard, cheap looking plastic in the Benz. Slammed the doors. Twisted the dials. Somehow, somewhere, Mercedes got lost with what they do best. I can't rectify, no matter how hard I try, the premium that Benz is asking over such mundane pieces as the Accord or Malibu.

Add to all of that, the Benz "C" series is a new offering from them.....totally redone. I can't imagine how well it will age as the years pile up on the design.

Going with "like for like" in the premium sedan range, and it was eminently clear why BMW is gathering all the sales against arch rival MB.

It's going to take a little while, but GM and Ford, once they get their employee buyouts done, are not sitting still. They've got nothing to be ashamed of (OK, maybe they need a little push with the Cobalt and Focus, respectively).

But, the rest of their lineups look/feel good.

Unless something very dramatic happens with Chrysler (minivans are alright, I guess, but I'm not their target market for those), I get the feeling they're a lost cause. That's unfortunate. Challenger isn't going to sell in enough numbers to save them. 300 is looking long in the tooth, with no update in sight. Daimler did them no favors. Chrysler's cost cutting is obvious, just like Mercedes' is.

greanpea68

I did Google it and it made my brain hurt, but I didn't see anything about having to offer the items to 100% of the people. There was a lot of stuff about Truth in Lending, etc.

I know we offer everything to everyone here for compliance laws...

I have never been to F&I school but what I was told is that if we don't offer it to everyone some can say " oh that is discrimination... he didn't think I would be able to afford it, I was born on a Sunday, I have a cowlick on the right side of my head... what evr the case may be"

GP

lrguy44

I did Google it and it made my brain hurt, but I didn't see anything about having to offer the items to 100% of the people. There was a lot of stuff about Truth in Lending, etc.

There are 3 reasons for offering 100% of the products 100% of the time. The most obvious is you can't sell what you do not present. The second, does have to do with compliance. Using a menu system that shows what each product costs proves that payments were not packed (compliance), and that the customer was informed that they had the option to purchase one, none, all or selected few of the products offered.

The third, which has raised it's ugly head over the last few years, is customers saying they were not offered a VSC and suing (and from what I understand) winning to have repairs covered. So to at least protect one's proverbial, present and document.

chikoo

I think the same applies to Doctors too.

I refused a biopsy, the doctor made me sign papers indicating She offered, but I refused.

gogiboy

Otto--

Thanks for the photo and information. My wife's Cricket was some shade of green, but that's all she can remember about it. I'll show her the photo to see if it jogs her memory.

With only 45,000 made from 1971-73 I wonder how many survivors are floating around out there. Obviously, there was little to recommend it as some kind of "collectible" and I would guess a significant number rusted away.

Anyone here actually remember seeing one during its original run? It's so nondescript I wonder if anyone--that didn't own one-- would have taken notice.

This brings up another question. What currently manufactured cars (circa mid-2000s) are the equivalent of the Cricket and/or Arrow? By that I mean destined to be all-but-forgotten in 30 years. My vote: Pontiac G5.

Gogiboy

roadburner

This brings up another question. What currently manufactured cars (circa mid-2000s) are the equivalent of the Cricket and/or Arrow? By that I mean destined to be all-but-forgotten in 30 years. My vote: Pontiac G5.

So many cars, so little time...
Chevrolet Aveo
Dodge Avenger
Ford Focus(Current version)
Kia Rio
Saturn Ion
Any Suzuki
Toyota Echo

joel0622

not sure about the Republican part

Ask Al Gore

joel0622

A hard loaded SEL FWD would list for $26K with a cost of $24K.

That has everything, SYNC, Heated Leather, Traction Control, Sirus, Roof, 17" V rated tires, V6, 6 Speed Auto.

Base on a SEL before you add anything is, $22.5K Retail, and $20731 cost.

They have a killer lease on them right now. $275 PM + tax, you write a check for $500, 39 months 15K py. Thats for the hard loaded one. If you decide to do it let me know before you go to a local dealer and I will get you an X-Plan pin#. it is basically just a an easy way to buy for invoice less the rebates.

BTW the first 2 years maintanence is free on the Fusion now also

604doc

I think a lot of service writers are just that. They write the orders, write down what the techs say, then write down whether the customer said yea or ney.
I was a service advisor in the late '80's, and always tried to educate myself on the product. I always asked the techs to clarify any questions I had so I could speak intelligently to the customers.
Labor rate could be cheaper on some services such as brakes, so they can at least try to compete with independent shops. Just a guess.

chikoo

even I could hear that Kristie. That was a tight one :shades:

mackabee

Wow! That sounds pretty awesome. I'll let you know.
Thanks!

benzserviceguy

All the service writers in our store have a basic understanding of how a car operates and the technical know how (at least WE think they do)
Many a time a writer has asked for a more comprehensive explanation of what is recommended/needed to complete a repair and what the ramifications of NOT completing the repair will result in.
As the case with pads & rotors, the answer was most probably that the pads and rotors were worn down below the minimum saftey mark and therefore needed to be replaced.

-SKIP-

greanpea68

All I have to say is, “If anyone pops for that upgrade they must also have a multi million dollar life insurance policy that they don’t want the wife to cash”.

Sounds like someone speaking from experience

GP

roadburner

I thought BMW's were bad since the rotors wear out along with the brake pads.

That's rarely the case; BMW dealers want to replace the rotors with each set of pads because in some cases the rotors will wear below their minimum thickness before a second set of pads is worn out. On my BMWs-including the track cars-I've always replaced the rotors at every other pad change with no problems whatsoever.

chikoo

Indeed! There is a difference, though. I know when I take my Tahoe into the local Chevy dealer for service, it's akin to "service writer du 'jour! They change quicker than the sales staff does.

interesting. my Mazda shop has had the same team of service writers (3) for the last 5 years (or maybe more).

jmonroe

…brakes stop the car, it's dangerous, and they use quality parts, and said they're hourly rate on brakes is lower at $75 an hour. (Service departments have different rates for different components?

I know you were at a Mazda store when you heard this. Can you imagine what it must be like to tell the owner of a Porsche that their $8K + Ceramic Composite pads need to be replaced and there is probably labor on top of that.

Maybe our Porsche guys will tell us those pads are guaranteed forever but still.

All I have to say is, “If anyone pops for that upgrade they must also have a multi million dollar life insurance policy that they don’t want the wife to cash”.

jmonroe

jescue

These brakes are most definately not guaranteed forever. $8K sounds about right. :surprise:

graphicguy

Anyhow, as Popeye would say, "How Embarr-[non-permissible content removed]-kins!"

Indeed! There is a difference, though. I know when I take my Tahoe into the local Chevy dealer for service, it's akin to "service writer du 'jour! They change quicker than the sales staff does.

I'm sure there's some training they have to go through, but it's not apparent to me.

Or maybe, I've been around so long that I've accumulated more knowledge than they do about basic auto repair.

Makes me wonder if any of these service writers have ever pulled an wheel, changed a brake drum/disk? Pulled off an oil filter? Changed a serpentine belt? Replaced a valve cover gasket? A fuel or water pump? Done a tune up (which these days means little more than to change plugs)?

Personally, I think all those things should be a requirement before they even begin to interface with a service customer.

oldfarmer50

I just happened to click on a video on carspace and saw a new buyer banging a gong in the showroom like they do in "King of Cars". The shocking thing was that this was going on at a HONDA dealer.

This seemed so out of character for such a high-line store. I mean just the thought of Isell screaming "Go ahead Joe-bob hit that there gong agin...Hee Haw" sends shivers down my spine.

How many of you guys have the gong in your showrooms? I figure Joel has to lock up his gong striker to keep folks from coming in just to beat on the thing for entertainment. Moo on the other hand probably has a gold plated gong for use only by those with high net worth.

As for myself, the only thing I could ever see me beating on would be the sales staff if they screwed me on the deal.

isellhondas

You guys aren't serious about the 8000.00?

jescue

Oh yes. They are an $8840 option from the factory. If you needed to replace them it would easily cost you that much. They are extremely long lasting and fade resistant, but people that race them can wear them out.

jmonroe

These brakes are most definately not guaranteed forever. $8K sounds about right.

YIKES…that explains the horrible scream I heard the other day coming from south of the Burgh.

How many buyers go for this option? :confuse:

jmonroe

isellhondas

Wow! I thought BMW's were bad since the rotors wear out along with the brake pads.

jescue

Very few order them. In 7 years I have my first Turbo order with them now. This is the same guy who wanted to forgo heated seats to save $500. :confuse: