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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Consider the sources, they can't even be honest with themselves. What do you think your chances are when you talk/deal with them ?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Anyways all that means is I have a short drive to anyone of several different dealers of any make. Even dealerships of the more hard to find variety (there is a Panoz dealership about 40 minutes from me). There are even several places where most makes are represented within a short walking distance of each other.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Its reminds me when we decided to buy a piano for our daughter. I had and (still have) no idea what is the street price for various type of pianos. I never did any research. I just walked into the store and got the one that was on sale. I still do not know if I was taken for a ride or got the steal...
So if someone who has no ideal what a Land Rover costs goes into a Land Rover dealership and buys a Land Rover for $27K and it was a mistake and it should have been $72K then the contract is void because of an obvious mistake. It doesn't matter if the buyer knew it was a mistake, what matters is if a reasonable person would know. In this case a reasonable person should know that it is a mistake.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
To be honest with you, when I look at Range Rover cars on the street they do not look like $72,000 cars to me.. They look like a fancy Ford Explorers... So if one would be offered to me at $27,000 I would not be shocked or exited thinking I'm getting a greatest deal in the world...
This is like saying 'ignorance of the law IS an excuse' but we all know and more importantly the courts rule that it isn't.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I live outside of New York city were apartment prices (in Manhattan) are around 1 mil. But for me - they have to pay me 1 mil for me to even consider to live in Manhattan.. Like I said - different value to different people.
Have you ever heard stories about people buying priceless stuff at flea markets and garage sales?
If you took this to court the court will try to determine what a reasonable person would believe and act accordingly. It wouldn't matter one bit to what you thought of the deal. In the example given the courts would have said "you should have known you couldn't get that brand new Rover for $27K".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Really? Have you heard of those crazy lawsuits that was won? (like famous McDonald coffee?)
We are talking contract law that is covered under the UCC (or like code adopted by state statues) not Tort law. The two are completely different animals.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
This type of legal interpretation is there to protect everyone who enters into a contract. What if you bought a house and didn't notice that the final contract specified a price of 420K instead of 240K? Would you realy want to pay 200K extra just because you should have read more carefully?
I would certainly follow up and complain about this salesperson. He needs to GO!
The Five Star thing is actually a measurement of the service abilities of the dealership. Reporting that horrible experience would affect the dealership in several ways. I would find it hard to believe any legitimate dealership, Dodge or other marque, would want to have that sort of employee around. Sound like a lawsuit timebomb waiting to happen.
Here in Wichita there are three Dodge dealerships. All three were Five Star until last month when one dropped off the map. From stories I have heard, the one that lost it does not surprise. Complaints should always be made.
BTW. The Five Star concept was supposedly based on the dealership where I work.
The interior however is really where the vehicles kick it up a notch.
Then when you get to the driving experience since no other vehicle drives like a Range rover it is just in a class by itself.
I have a short sales story for you. This is why sales people hate negotiating over the phone.
Saturday morning this woman calls up from way out of our market looking for a Range Rover Sport. I tell her what we have in stock, all three of them, and that typically we do not discount them as they are in such limited supply. Land Rover did nearly triple our allocation of Sports for the end of the model year so we are going to be discounting these vehicles as the summer winds down.
Whenever people call us from way out of our market area they are looking for two things. They either want an odd ball color/optioned vehicle and can't find it or they are trying to find a deal.
This woman wanted a White on Alpaca Sport which we have coming in about two weeks. I told her I would check on its exact date of arrival and see what kind of discount we could offer up.
She gives me her phone number and I talk to your centre manager. We looked around on the Rover intranet to see if their were any White/alpaca sports in her area and there were several so she is shopping for a deal not avaliblity.
We talk it over and decide that is we currently only have the three vehicles we are not going to discount to heavily but will offer something up after I feel her out some more.
I explain the situation to her and ask her what kind of discount she was looking for. She refuses to tell me. I explain to her that if she is looking for 4,000 dollar or so discount that is never going to happen as she is well out of our market area and the sale will not count towards various objectives and bonuses. In addition she would never service the vehicle here either so there is a loss of that revenue too.
She tells me it would be a cash deal no trade, "a very simple transaction for you to roll one more unit out the door." I offer up the only discount I am willing to give up without confering with anyone else. I give her 1,500 dollars off. She scoffs and says she can get that where she is.
ME: Well again ma'am please tell me where you want to be and if I can do it then I will.
Her: I want 3,000 dollars off.
ME: Can I put you on hold for a couple of minutes?
Her: Sure.
I go back and talk to the boss again. He mulls it over for a few minutes then says ok do it but I bet she calls back wanting more off by the end of the day.
ME: Ma'am we can do the 3,000 dollars off. I can take a deposit right now over the phone and I will lock that car up for you right away.
Her: Well my husband is not going to be home til monday so I need to talk to him first.
Me: Ok well then call me back monday then.
Her: Says ok and hangs up.
About an hour later she calls back asking if there are any other fees with that price. I tell her well there would be your local tax and reg fees whatever those are and our $239 doc fee.
Her: Well what is that for?
Me: Well to cover the cost of generating the documents for the sale and in your case it won't even do that. We will have to overnight your registration paperwork to a tag agency who will do the registration for us. They will overnight us your plates and then we will overnight the plates to you. Included in that envelope will be a pre-paid overnight envelope for you to use to send our dealer plate back.
All of that over nighting of paperwork alone is going to cost nearly 200 dollar then there is the fee that tag agency charges us.
(Just a side note no one ever cares about our doc fee. It is less then one half of one percent of the purchase price of our least expensive vehicle.)
Her:(grumbling a little)OK and does that include floor mats.
Me: Yes it does.(again no one asks if our prices include floor mats either)
She hangs up.
Calls back another hour or so later.
Her:Ok well you were the first one I called and I found someone else who has a 100 dollar less doc fee and will discount the car 3,500 dollars. Will you match that?
ME: NO.
Her: Why not? It is noly 600 dollars less in total.
ME: Well there has to be a line drawn some where and this is the line. If I match that I am sure you can find someone who will be willing to go another 250 dollars or so below that. Then you might find someone who will go another 100 dollars below that. I am sorry we will not sell the vehicle for less then the previously quoted price.
Her:Well fine I will just have to talk to my husband and see what he says then call you Monday.
ME: OK
She hangs up
Oh and she has not called me yet or responded to my voice mail.
Anyway, like I said before, Rover does have some kick [non-permissible content removed] interiors.
Range Rover owners have an average income of over 250,000 dollars a year. Onf our customers is in the middle of buying a major league sports franchise for somewhere around 175 million dollars.
Sartorial Prejudices. Would make a nice name for an underground death metal prog band.
In Los Angeles, whether selling cars or shopping at the grocery (or even out having a drink), celebrities and the more wealthy tend to dress undercover.
Holes in the knee of their jeans? Let's qualify the customer. Either they sleep in their car or they bought those jeans for $1500 at Fred Segal's on Melrose. Ripped t-shirt? Same $1500 on Rodeo Drive. Lesbian couples? Large numbers of lesbians buy automobiles. Especially in California.
Dirty and/or tangled damaged hair usually looked like a sale to me.
And of course, everyone owns a car and buys it from somewhere. Sonetimes two or more of them.
Sometimes, people walk in who do not own a car, and have never owned a car in the past and....buy a car.
And everyone has a story. Sometimes selling cars is like being a bartender or taxi cab driver.
I know you can't say who this is nor should you. I think you are in CT, or at least that area, and since I'm in western PA, I'm pretty sure who this is and what he wants to buy.
No need to respond.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
im pretty sure we wont be seeing the whale back in good ol' CT anytime soon though...too bad!
That story is hilarious! The fact that she is concerned about doc fees and floor mat costs on a 70K vehicle is amazing (especially since she is planning on paying cash). But I do not doubt it for one second. My father builds very expensive custom homes, and you would be amazed when somebody puts a $500 refrigerator in a 3 million dollar house, and complains about the cost of the refrigerator.. Some rich people are just very funny when it comes to money.. Like they are always on the defensive, or looking for a great deal...
Yes I know I am getting off-topic.
I'm sorry but I don't know what you're talking about here.
Have you ever heard stories about people buying priceless stuff at flea markets and garage sales?
Yes, but I thought we were talking about retail sales where things were put in writing and were way out of line with what is considered, by most reasonable people, as the norm.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm funny when it comes to money, especially mine, and I'm not rich. I would think that it's even more important to a person when paying cash. An extra $100 might be justified as just a few cents more a month when buying on credit, but it's a real $100 when paying cash. You get the same amount of goods or services for $100 whether you're rich or poor.
If I ever become rich, I doubt that I'll consider money to be worth less to me than it is now. :shades:
The difference is that this deal was consumated. In the above example, if that error wasn't caught until the end, I would not fork over the extra 200k and take the keys. In the Bill Heard example, everything was done.
Well, we expect that sort of behaviour from people who are not rich. But as some basketball players might scoff at a $5000 fine, they might also scoff at an extra $100 on a car's total price.
However, some of them also got rich by paying attention to every last dollar, and certainly *not* letting a spare $100 go by.
I'm certainly not rich, but there have been times when I've paid a premium price for something *here and now* rather than having to go out of my way and get it. So, the answer is, it all depends.
Bottom line - make sure you know what your payoff is so you don't get ripped off!!!!
If you look at the context of rovers story, the person was calling from out of town regarding a very expensive automobile. Rover's dealership offered her the best price and she calls back to complain about saving an extra couple hundred dollars? I guess my question is how much is your time worth? How much is the dealers time worth? If the person has to drive an additional 100-200 miles to save that money, is it really worth the effort (especially considering gas prices)? Call me crazy, but if I was going to drop 70K on a new luxury import, I would spend the extra $100-200 and buy from the most trusted local dealer.. There is something to be said from servicing your vehicle from the dealer you bought it from... I always try to get the best deal that I can when buying anything, but at some point you have to know what you are willing to pay and be happy.
Also, referring back to my story about the custom home, the person putting a $500 white generic refrigerator into nearly a $100K kitchen is going to lose money on the resale.. Kitchens are huge when it comes to selling a house.. So maybe they saved a grand or two on the refrigerator, but when they go to sell the house it will cost them..
Okay, back on topic...
Maybe you should go back and revise your comments in the many places you posted this nonsense.
Why does everyone jump to conclusions and assume anything they don't understand is a ripoff?
me "How much is the MSRP of the dodge?"
him "34000"
me "so, you're willing to pay $4000 more for something you like less and has the resale value of spoiled milk?"
him "Well.........they're giving me a better discount."
me "enjoy your dooodge."
I'd think most people looking to buy a house with a $100,000 kitchen are wanting (demanding) the ultra-upscale amenities like custom built-in appliances. A $500 Sams Club fridge would probably turn off potential buyers as it's one more thing they have to upgrade to get the house the way they want it. If it were me as the buyer I'd certainly use that against the homeowner during negotiations and would wonder where else the cheapskate owner cut corners.
Too many people do not consider resale when they buy new. No matter if it's their "dream house" or "dream car", few people stay in them forever. So thinking of resale should be part of the buying process. You might think that car looks incredible in that Medium Mochachino Metallic but the rest of us know that's the color of poo and don't want to be seen near it.
In my brain "resale value" is one of the most over-rated new car selling points, just above floor mats, just below free oil changes.
you are certainly not alone. How else would companies like Saab or Lincoln ever sell any vehicles if so many shoppers didn't overlook resale value?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I sold in Pasadena California. It was the Most diverse area you could work in. Intellects at from CALTECH. Wanabees and aspiring actors. Gay Couples, Lesbian Couples. Old people. 30k a year millionaires. Every Ethnicity you can think of. And they are all buyers. They all have stories.
I had a Vietnamese Management team, and we would go eat PHO before our saturday meeting.
I can work with anyone and everyone is a buyer.
Brit Rover,
Sometimes I think we are one in the same, that is such a typical Audi Customer it is unreal.
I have learned to be a little more blunt with people because sometimes they just do not get it.
If that wench....I mean client called me back I would of just said
"We are done. Are you in or are you out."
Because 9 times out of ten people like that are pulling numbers out of their keysters and just are trying to grind you for every last penny. That is why I call their bluff.
In my brain "resale value" is one of the most over-rated new car selling points, just above floor mats, just below free oil changes."
Yeah, but how many Americans buy a new car every 2-4 years?? I'll bet the sales force can chime in here, but I would venture to say that you are an atypical buyer. Out of about 30 people I work with closely at my company, I would venture to say that 70-80% have late model low mileage vehicles right now, and I would bet most of those will not keep them more than 2-5 years.
Me, I usually keep a car 4-5 years and for 40-50K miles. Resale does matter to me, and in some cases, there is a big difference between trying to sell a used Honda/Toyota vs a used Kia/Suzuki..
I do agree with you that if you drive your vehicle into the ground (say 10 years, 120K miles) resale is not as much as a factor. But let's face it, you are probably the minorty..
Resale value should not really be considered unless it is to break a tie between two or more cars that one is interested in. To often higher resale values are paid for by higher up front costs. Yes you have a $2,000 higher resale value for car 'A' but you paid $2,500 more for it. Secondly it doesn't pay to get the car that has a higher resale value if you compromise on what you want. "Oh sure I hate the car but look at the resale value."
Plus the longer you keep the car the less a higher resale value is a factor.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A couple of thousand work in my building and going through the parking lot I would say that its a pretty even spread between new to 10+ years. Even have some that date back to the 80's. Most people I personally know put at least 100K on them before the get rid of them. I know some that trade every couple of years, but thats a minority.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I guess it's down to the perception of a "deal". To a lot of people a large amount off the MSRP is of more value to them than resale or actually owning a car they like.
So true. I, for one, grew up in a family of four who lived in a a one bedroom walk-up apartment for many, many years.
Now, I'm in the top one percent of the population relative to income...and, while certainly not cheap, I watch the pennies.
????
What Carmax should have done is explain they're covering their rump by overcharging and you'll get the money back from the loan company later if you haven't bounced a payment or skipped the last payment. A little explanation would go a a long way. I'd react the same way and wouldn't go back, after I let them know what I'd caught them doing.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Would you say that the image that some people have about Range Rover has changed since Ford bought them out?
I have a friend who is hoping to scrape enough money together for a new Base Cobalt, and hopes to trade in her 1994 Cavalier. She counts every dollar like it is her last, so to her she is 'funny' when it comes to her money.
mazda6guy... I don't know what British_Rover will say but it made a difference for me when I decided to buy a Land Rover (2006 LR3 HSE). I figured that the quality would be better than in the past which it appears to be true. I have had not one bit of trouble with mine in 8 months of ownership.
I have never owned a Land Rover before and traded in my 2002 Mercedes ML500 for it and I'm very pleased.
Mark156
1. Sales people who lack the basic social skills of a monkey.
2. Misleading advertising (radio in particular) that offers set amounts for any car pushed, pulled, or towed in. However, salespeople pretend to not know about the ad, or they claim it applies to something other than what the buyer has. Under normal circumstances, these types of misunderstandings happen. BH takes it to another level, calling customers liars when they repeat the ad they've heard.
3. Taking trade-ins but failing to pay them off in a timely manner or at all (wrecking havoc with credit.) Buyers may end up not having a new car as financing falls through and new car is taken back. Then they have their old car repossessed because 1-2 monthly payments have not been made. Sometimes they don't even bother to change the trade-in's title over, but sell it to someone else anyway. Then the new buyer has a big hassle.
***4. Used cars that are advertised as new (mileage recorded incorrectly and sent to DMV; MSRP sheets not posted on "new" cars; cars previously titled that are sold as new; huge mileage cars sold as demos.)
***5. Deceptive financing practices (offers to approve anyone and then blaming their non-approval on the buyer's already disclosed bad credit; "done deals" with signed contracts & cars taken possession of >before actual approval for finance) They have truely raised this to a new art form by manipulating and falsifying credit appl. info. to get pre-approval. The funny thing is that the credit co. sometimes calls the buyer to verify the info. I guess BH expects the buyer to keep up the lie.
These "oopsies and misunderstandings" have to be approved of by management. I bet they are even teaching these tricks in training. Yet due to overburdened state attorney generals and signed arbitration contracts, very little is done. All I could find were fines paid to the state, none to individuals.
And still, they sell thousands and thousands of cars a year!
We need a "deep-throat" from inside Bill Heard.
The Bill Heard dealerships are good at knowing how to push its sales practices to the very edge to maximise profit...without becoming unlawful.