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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Its the 14th largest with about 3.25 million.
As I said we have suburbs here that have more than 100,000 so I really don't see 100,000 population as large for a metro area.
When I get ready to purchase my next vehicle I may just go back to AZ where I can have my pick of Dealers and or vehicle.
Wouldn't it be easier to go to Portland?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Land Rover always had the problem that most british companies had and that is under capitilzation. They had some pretty good engineers, designers and stylists but they had no money to work with. What just boggles my mind is that nearly all of the equipment, with the expeption of the vehicle's platform itself, the air suspension system, and the four wheel drive system, in the new Land Rovers comes from either volvo, jaguar or aston martin yet Land Rover still languishes last or near last in quality surveys. Jaguar has scored very good in recent quality surveys and volvo has done well too.
Engines are Jag and Aston and so is the tranny. The safety equipment is straight from volvo. Denso makes our nav system along with many other systems. Bosch makes most of the rest of the electronics.
The only persistant issue I have seen has been air suspension issues with early LR3s and Range Rover Sports. The air suspension system is incredibly complex and can sometimes trigger faults when they are not really needed.
You might want to watch the use of names like "thief" "criminal" etc.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Do you think re the Attorneys General in states now stopping such practices that there might be a lobby group on the part of dealers and BH participates heavily in those? Even though most (all?) other dealers wouldn't condone intentional practices like these, their voice is overwhelmed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It still puzzles me....if someone wants a straight forward, honest dealer to do business with, why buy from Bill Heard? If Bill Heard doesn't want the kind of customer who will try to "scam" them, why cater to that crowd?
Reminds me of my late, great father's favorite saying.....
"Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty but the pigs actually enjoy it."
Look at what has happened to some of the folks who blog.
I'm not saying that his track record is pure, but as a dealer I do know that his lawyers are very very good and he has deep pockets...if he wanted to make an example, he certainly could.
Go to google type in "anti bill heard chevy" and click "I'm feeling lucky" and look at the first (alleged) quote under the picture.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I’d been in the business about 6 months, and I get an incoming phone call. It’s a lady who is quite obnoxious. She informs me she just left Toyota and had “beat up” the entire sales staff there. She is looking for a Camry, white ONLY, 4 cyl.
I tell her about a very clean low mileage LE we have in stock, which just happens to be on ad. She tells me not to worry about the price because she was only going to pay $500 over whatever our cost was. I was inexperienced but smart enough to tell he that sounded reasonable and we might be able to do even better! Would she like to come in now or later in the day. She said now.
She is at the dealership shortly. She is rather pushy, borderline rude self proclaimed (female dog). White woman, mid forties. She says she used to get ripped off by car dealers but now she calls the shots. We look at the car, she likes it. We drive it, and then write it up.
In the write up she only wants to discuss price. There is no trade and she has her own financing. She is starting to get more and more obnoxious as time goes on. Typically rude people break down and become civilized when they find out you’re a decent person but not her. She is very adamant about paying $500 over our cost so I take the offer into the manager.
He says well – let’s show her that she is paying $500 over our cost. It’s our computer so I can make cost whatever I want. He says give him a minute and he’ll come introduces himself and brings her into his office. I’m not too sure if this is ethical but the lady is such a jerk I figure it’s alright.
So – I go tell her the deal is done, I’m not sure of the final pricing because I’m not privy to the figures and then my manager shows up. She’s been fixing for a fight on the price, and so she’s quite impressed with herself now that she got us to obey her commands and she isn’t afraid to tell us that. We go into the office and he shows her the “cost” and ultimately we’ve sold the car slightly below the ad price which is allegedly $500 over our cost.
She takes delivery, and I’m feeling pretty smug. I’m not sure about what the profit was on that deal I think about $2000 but I am sure about the fallout.
The first fallout was here on Edmunds. I posted the story in the “inconsiderate customers thread” and being new to Edmunds was expecting to hear kudos on how we had gotten one over on that horrible lady. Well – as you can imagine – the veterans were all over me for this one. The one thing I remember most was the advice from a poster whose name I cannot remember but I think it was Cliffy (?) who sold Toyotas. He said he learned early in the business that only a weak negotiator would lie. When it comes to price you either negotiate further or you let them walk. Integrity and reputation is critical.
The second fallout was this horrible person came back to haunt me. I’m on the phone following up with an extremely nice couple and she comes barging up to my desk and is SCREAMING at me in our showroom about how we ripped her off and sold her a pile of crap car. I’m in shock – I look at her and show her I’m on the phone and she starts screaming louder! Normally the sales manager would have been rushing over at the first sign of screaming but all the managers were in a meeting. I told her I would be with her in a minute and she continues ranting. I then raise my voice and tell her if she doesn’t stop yelling I will refuse to help her and call the police. She shuts up and I go back to my phone call . Dial tone. Needless to say the very nice couple wouldn’t return any of my subsequent phone calls.
The customer we lied to about the cost is extremely upset because we had put on aftermarket brake pads, and the transmission fluid was not perfectly clear. She had taken the vehicle to Toyota and had them inspect it and that’s what they found. She is speaking to me very forcefully and being extremely rude at this point. Fortunately my manager has now arrived. We end up flushing the tranny fluid, and offering her Toyota OEM pads at a discount which she declined.
This lady was a nightmare, the details I’ve been fortunately able to forget. I’ve been accused of being a liar by more than one customer since then but it’s been over six years since and I haven’t lied to a customer since.
First of all, 'irregardless' ain't a real/accepted word to use whether writing or speaking. Weren't you learned this in 3rd grade, I was ? Please knock it off.
I'm not saying that his track record is pure, but as a dealer I do know that his lawyers are very very good and he has deep pockets...if he wanted to make an example, he certainly could.
According to post #2632, Old Bill has already been found guilty of some type/s of shady dealing/s and has paid a fine/s to at least one state. I don't think you would have too much of problem repeating what has already been proven. Now, if you were talking about his heritage this would not be acceptable and might pose a problem for you.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I don't get it either. I can't imagine buying anything from any retailer who has such a reputation. Customers with good credit don't have to put with with sleazy crap (for some reason some do)...the guy who never pays his bills needs somebody like Heard to get him financed (or so he thinks) and will agree to any terms to get what they want...The thought process goes like this...they probably won't pay for it anyway, so who cares if the interest rate is 25% and the car is $2000 over MSRP. All that matters is getting the car they want, at any price. I don't have the stomach for that kind of dealing.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sorry but I disagree. The comments were made after reading the various stories and complaints with regards to Bill Heard. According to the first amendment, all Americans have the right to express their opinion on the matter. I would venture to say that 90% of the posts on Edmunds are personal opinions, are we going to ban those posts too? If some of these customers wanted to, they could assemble and protest near the nearest publically owned land or road near Bill Heard. There is nothing Bill Heard can do but tell their side of the story. In the case of the gentleman who had his truck repossessed because Bill Heard made an error, I think the dealership's response was very weak (blaming it on a rookie salesman)....
Mistakes in the above sentences.
1. Improper use of "ain't" - replace with isn't.
2. Improper use of "Weren't" - replace with Didn't.
3. Improper use of "learned" - replace with learn.
4. Improper use of "I was" - replace with "I did"
And there should be a period or a hyphen after "3rd grade", not a comma.
Jmonroe, if you are correcting someone else's writing, please be correct in your own.
Can anyone tell us whether they have clinched or bungled a sale because of a grammatical faux pas?
tidester, host
But while I got you here I want to repeat a question. That I asked here...
Post #2565
I can use my personal account to share some videos of stuff with our cars if it is ok with the hosts. I will make sure you cannot see the dealership name anywhere on the videos.
Is that go or no go?
Car dealers usually don't sue for slander... they stay out of court whenever possible... hard to find a sympathetic jury, see...
-Mathias
(Who has never been taken for a ride by a car dealer yet. Private sellers have tried...)
Here in Orlando, there was a news article about Bill Heard being fined $250K by the state of Florida for deceptive practices.
And I agree with the folks about being careful with what you say on public fora.
If you don't believe me then go to a public forum and start spouting off about Tom Cruise and his religion.
Again I'm not saying that BH isn't always above board, I don't know the dealership or the man himself and have no dog in this hunt. I am just saying that to call someone a "Thief" based on what some folks say could get 'sticky' in the legal sense.
Just because we are using the Internet and Edmunds as a Public Forum doesn't give anyone the right to just spout off dergrading names to people.
That's all I'm going to say on the subject.
Bingo! Apparently this practice is alive and well because I have been presented invoice papers before that were much higher(about $800) than what I had calculated from various sources. I stuck to my guns and the dealership came down to my price.
It sounds as if the liar was the salesmanager...not you. You were a party to the lie. But, it would not have been a good career move to tell the customer your boss had printed up a false invoice number. Would be interesting to have you go through some therapy to help you remember the traumatic "details", as yours was an interesting story.
Okay, I am done...
Unless...........Bill Heard should join us here as a member. :surprise:
Then of course, under the membership agreement, we would all have to treat him with respect.
There is nothing actionable in that statement, and I welcome the opportunity to prove that that's not slander.
This isn't England - the truth *is* proof against a slander lawsuit. And I can't imagine that someone who could look at those consumer complaints would think that "thief" and "criminal" aren't words that could be used, even if only as a bit of hyperbole.
I didn't realize the original post contained a question.
I don't see a problem as long as what you post cannot be construed as solicitation or advertising.
tidester, host
You obviously missed the point of what I was saying in post #2650 and I don't want to spend the time trying to explain it.
If anybody out there wants to explain, be my guest. I'm out.
Again, sorry you missed the point.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yeah...I got a couple minutes to explain.
It's called sarcasm. Maybe, a
OOOOOHHHHH, OOOOOHHHHH, OOOOOHHHHH Mr. Kotter!!!! [he says as as he raises his hand]
I do belive its called sarcasim, irregardless of what some may think I do believe most people got your point irregardless of how it was relayed. So be happy irregardless of how some people have reacted. So keep on posting irregardless of how people may not get the humor of a post. So keep a smile irregardless of how many times I type irregardless in this post.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I drove a guy around in our 1959 series II Rover today. I am pretty sure he is going to buy it. He drank way too much of the Rover kool-aid but he did not drown in it at least not yet...
brit,
please don't take this personal, just my opinion to above post.
...What just boggles my mind is that nearly all of the equipment, with the expeption of the vehicle's platform itself, the air suspension system, and the four wheel drive system, in the new Land Rovers comes from either volvo, jaguar or aston martin yet Land Rover still languishes last or near last in quality surveys. Jaguar has scored very good in recent quality surveys and volvo has done well too.
Engines are Jag and Aston and so is the tranny. The safety equipment is straight from volvo. Denso makes our nav system along with many other systems. Bosch makes most of the rest of the electronics.
This isn’t as mind boggling as it may first appear. If you don’t impose the proper specifications, even the best manufactures can’t build the parts you need for your application and once they build these parts you have to be able to verify the quality by extensive testing. As a car manufacture, this is imperative and when you don’t do this, only bad things happen. On top of this, you have to ensure when all the pieces are bolted together, they work as a system. It doesn’t appear that this was done either.
The only persistant issue I have seen has been air suspension issues with early LR3s and Range Rover Sports. The air suspension system is incredibly complex and can sometimes trigger faults when they are not really needed.
In my opinion, anything that is incredibly complex shouldn’t be in cars or in the hands of the every day person. Wait until you get it right before you pass it off to the public. Most of the time when you try to get too cute it comes back and bites you.
I’m sure, now that Ford is the parent-owner, things will get better but if it were me paying this kind of money, I’d wait.
Just a little off topic from the above but what percentage (approx) of Rover customers, at your store, buys vs. leases ?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Do you remember what Old Bill did to deserve this ? If a dealer has been found to be a THIEF how much do you think the fine should be (anybody can chime in here).
Isn't that just like the government to keep all the money. Talk about being a THIEF (I hope the Florida Attorney General isn't perusing this thread and don't anybody get any wise ideas). Wouldn't it have been only right to split this money. Like 70% for the plaintiff and 30% for the state. Isn't that the way it's usually split when you hire a
THIEFlawyer to represent you.jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I believe it was a bit more than lieing to customers, bait & switch, or "misplacing" the keys to their trade-in. Maybe something like forging signatures on legal documents or maybe lieing to finance companies so the customer could get financed.
PS.....I would walk or ride a bike my entire life before I'd buy a vehicle from Bill Heard.
*Sponsors Child Safety Day (in memory of murdered child, Polly Klass) in Memphis, TN 2000
*A culinary arts student at Atlanta Technical College (part of Georgia Occupational Award of Leadership, GOAL) won a new Chevy Cavalier donated by Bill Heard Chevrolet. 2003
*Committee for the 2006 Annual Special Olympics Classic Car and Bike Show, presented by the Collierville Police Department and Bill Heard Chevrolet, names its “featured car” for the show ... 2006
*Georgia-- BHC is not mentioned as the dealer, but this does generally address the issue of bad dealerships.
("After Rickie and Ronda Coleman purchased a Pontiac Grand Prix from a car dealer who turned out to be a crook, they discovered why Georgia is among the worst places in the country to buy a car. Not only did the Eastman couple have to give their car back, they got stuck paying the note on a vehicle they no longer owned.")
"Then legislation to protect used car buyers from the Colemans' fate got snarled in industry opposition and a lawmaker's self-interest."
"State Rep. Alan Powell, himself a used car dealer, exerted his influence last year to gut the bill, which he says would have cost him money and put some mom-and-pop dealers out of business. "I am a businessman," said Powell, a Democrat from Hartwell, "and if you ain't figured it out, Georgia is very much a pro-business state."
"The lawmaker's strong industry tilt — as well as his efforts on behalf of his own business — is commonplace at the General Assembly. And it helps explain why Georgia consumers like the Colemans have little recourse when a car deal goes sour." 2005
http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/1005/23bizborrower.html
P.S. No one called BHC a thief in any threads I saw. However, in a number of states, the co. has broken laws, been found guilty, and had to make monetary amends.
I wish I still had the strength/conviction to do that. However, I'm not beneath a horse and buggy.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
From what I know of the law, I'd say the chances Bill Heard would want to sue an Edmunds poster for libel lie somewhere between none at all and absolutely no way. It'd be suicide, imo.
The basic elements of a libel case brought by a business are A. Whether the defendant publishes (and internet message boards are considered published material, btw) something that is false, and (very importantly) whether it is material the defendant KNOWS to be false, B. Whether the published material is demonstrably defamatory to the business.
Here, then, are the hurdles Bill Heard would have to overcome to win a libel trial (or to even have it make it trial, for that matter):
1. Edmunds poster reads and watches numerous TV/print/internet reports that make it easy, perhaps even unavoidable, to arrive at the conclusion that Bill Heard is a crook. If that's what the Edmunds poster reasonably believes, and it is not unreasonable to assume that a car dealer would engage in these practices, then legally the Edmunds poster wasn't lying, much less lying intentionally, no matter whether his words are defamatory.
2. Fair or unfair, couldn't it be said that a lot of car dealers have a reputation for being crooked? Clearly there was a ton of bad press involving Bill Heard long before this Edmunds poster came along. Can Bill Heard quantify the damage the Edmunds poster has done to his business?
3. (this cuts to the heart of the matter) Because the defendant's so-called libelous statement is, in essence, that Bill Heard engages in duplicitous, deceptive, and harmful business practices, Bill Heard would basically have to prove that he does not engage in those practices. Once he brings the suit, his entire business history would be fair game for the defense -- former and current employees would have to testify under oath, any customer who felt they were the subject of a deceptive business practice could be deposed, all of Bill Heard's office correspondence would be fair game for the defense, etc.
Bill Heard isn't suing anyone on Edmunds. Probably not even if he's legitimately and injuriously libeled.
This is a story about CSI. I was in the business about 8 months and had a rather cavalier attitude about CSI. I never coached my customers or even mentioned the surveys. Oh my managers told me I had to coach the customer, and I knew my pay depended on it, but I didn’t care. You see, I was very customer service oriented and my customers loved me. Even the ones who I didn’t sell thought I was a swell guy. My CSI was one of the highest in the store, and that was good enough for me.
Well – I had a customer we sold – that was a miracle. She pulled up in a barely running Subaru. Beaten to hell. I mean – HORRIBLE condition. We ended up selling it for $50. The lady was recently divorced from a drug addicted, physically abusive man. She had two kids and no reliable transportation.
She had horrific credit, with nothing current. She had a paid auto from 5 years ago but nothing good since. The aforementioned manager was a master re-hasher – and somehow gets GMAC to buy her on a lease with no money down – just fictional trade equity. We have this amazing lease special at the time so her payment is just under $200 a month.
HAPPIEST customer I have ever had to this day. She was in tears of joy and amazement. Well – like every other customer, I didn’t tell her about the survey. I do my normal follow up and she is so thankful and happy, its embarrassing. About a month later my boss calls me into his office.
He has just gotten the survey results for the day, and I have a horrible survey. Its about 50% completely satisfied and 50% very satisified with a satisified mixed in for good measure. Worst survey I had up to that point by far. We look up who the customer is and to my shock – its her! The happiest customer gives me the worst survey ever.
As you could imagine I was in shock. I called her up to find out what she had been thinking. Turns out – she thought I might get into trouble if the survey was too good. She mixed in a bunch of very satisified answers to make it look "real" and not coached.
So – guess what? After that I told EVERY customer I had about the survey. I told them how it was graded, and how it affected me. I pointed out the irony and how ridiculous it was. I made sure they knew – it was there survey - they could fill it out however they wanted – but if they felt I had done a good job to please give me the highest possible marks because anyone other grade is a failing one. If they weren’t comfortable with that or felt it was dishonest I asked them to simply throw it away.
To those posters saying it’s a flawed system – you’re right. Its not about how happy customers are its about how well you can get them to check the right boxes. Granted this is easier to do with happy customers but the grading system is a joke. In fact - since GM has taken over Saturn - we are now graded on but a single question. The entire survey process is now pass fail on the stregth of but one question.
I liked your stories!
And they sure beat talking about grammar and spelling.
tidester, host
I'm sure this was all part of your plan to solicit comments sooooo I'll bite. Please tell us how we can slam a Saturn salesperson with the stroke of just ONE box.
I also like your stories, therefore, you have permission to continue wrighting.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl