Stories from the Sales Frontlines

british_rover

Yeah I thought you might catch that after you re-read your post. I just type to fast sometimes.

The best way for us to get info off of new vehicles is one was taken in trade. Thats why I loved when the GL450 came in as it gave me a chance to drive it and take a look at it.

Very rarely I will actually go to a competing dealership and try out a new vehicle.

If we do not get a Q7 in trade soon I will probably go check on out on my own. I just hate wasting a salesman's time at the Audi dealership. Just about everyone at the local BMW and Merc dealerships know me so there is no issue there with me going down to poke around at things.

dhamilton

about other car company's is one thing. Not knowing what your direct competition makes it bread and butter at is another thing. That might give me a little pause as well.
While having my wifes Infiniti serviced today I walked across to an Audi dealer on one side, and a Lexus dealer on the other. It was disappointing to encounter an Audi salesman who told me that the S4's weight distribution is exactly 50/50 [it's not] and a Lexus salesman try to convince me that a Lexus is the most fun car I will ever drive.
To me it's a confidence thing. Certain things to me should be common knowledge at a high end dealership. I can understand someone not knowing crap about the Suzuki they sale because surprise, Suzuki doesn't sell cars on engineering. But for me someone selling cars like Audi, BMW, etc should be well educated on the product that they are selling. Again, I don't have much confidence in salesman when I know more than they do, and that happens a lot lately. I bet British rover knows a fair amount about how jeeps work, maybe Hummers as well. There was a post earlier from him commenting on the poor approach angles of a jeep compared to a Rover. He is very well versed in his product. That says to me that he cares about what he sells and believes in it enough to know what hell he's talking about.
Just my two cents

snakeweasel

Another question our salespeople would ask would be along the lines of, "There are three BMW dealerships in a 50 mile radius. Why would you want to visit us or buy from us instead of the others?" And then shut up and listen....

To which I would reply "Thats a good question, why should I buy from you instead of the others?" And then shut up and listen....

snakeweasel

I know, just gotta mess with ya

jmonroe

Irregardless of not having spell check, there is a book like instrument called a dictionary that may help.

This is 2006, don't tell me you still use that thing. Mine went into the fireplace a couple years back during a power outage. Kept us warm the whole night (unabridged type). When I went to buy a new one, the salesperson at the book store laughed at me and said use your computer, everybody else does. Sooo that's what I've been doing and it's been working until now.

By the way, if you used yours, you wouldn't have found that word that should not be used (you know which one I'm talking about).

Save a tree use your computer.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

Irregardless of not having spell check, there is a book like instrument called a dictionary that may help.

You are aware that the dictionary is only useful if you can already spell the word?

jmonroe

To which I would reply "Thats a good question, why should I buy from you instead of the others?" And then shut up and listen....

We agree again, except I wouldn't be listening. I'd be on my way out the door. I can't put up with arrogance like that.

jmonroe

graphicguy

after I got off the boat yesterday I was seeing alot of colors. maybe the 15 beer's played a role

Rocking on the water and beers will do that....LOL!

Off topic, we were boating on the OH river last night. Really not doing anything wrong. Got boarded by the river cops because someone was leaning against one of the railings. While it's something they shouldn't have been doing, it was little cause to board the boat. The cop acted like a real jerk. He wanted to know if we had been drinking...."NO". Rifled through our life jacket drawers...insisted on going over our inspection paperwork with a fine tooth comb, etc. This lasted for about 30 minutes. He really put a damper on what WAS a nice evening boating...for no real reason.

Sorry....had to rant for a minute.

imidazol97

>insisted on going over our inspection paperwork with a fine tooth comb, etc. This lasted for about 30 minutes. He really put a damper on what WAS a nice evening boating...for no real reason.

After the car dealer from Columbus ran his cigarette board over the other boat a year or two ago and got by with it are they being more careful now? That guy got no time, did he? Left the scene, took the boat back to Columbus, etc.

kyfdx

I'm pretty sure he went to jail.... Maybe only six months, but he definitely did not get off with probation..

kyfdx

Newspaper story

He got ten years.... Can seek probation after two years.. Asked for shock probation after six months, but was denied.

mac24

Then two months after it was denied they let him out to serve his sentence in a halfway house................so he spent less than a year of his ten year sentence behind bars!

Laughable justice

imidazol97

Soooo, he just got his boat out of the water, didn't know there was damage, and returned to elite suburban Columbus and didn't notice any of the stories covering the area media for days looking for the perpetrator and just didn't know it was his own boat?

Was this Campbell County that filed the charges? What would have happened to Joe Sixpack in similar circumstances? He'd still be in solitary. What kind of dealership was Glen Colann involved with in Columbus/Gahanna?

imidazol97

Does this guy deserve light sentence?:
• Employees at Four Seasons marina in Columbia Tusculum called to say the man failed to pay to launch his boat that morning. Rivertowne marina's owners said he didn't pay a docking fee.
• Vacationers from Florida and Virginia, and the mayor of Moscow, Ohio, gave accounts of how the boat's owner was rude and blocked busy boat ramps along the Ohio River that day and the next.
• A Pennsylvania man said a pickup hauling the boat nearly ran him off Interstate 71 in Ohio the day after the boat crash.
• A clerk at a gas station along I-71 said the boat's owner caused a near-brawl by blocking all the pumps with the boat he was towing the day after the crash.
"The boat's owner left a trail of (ticked)-off people all the way home," Dayton Police Sgt. Raleigh Barnett said. "These people remembered the boat, and called police, because of the arrogance of the owner."

News article

jmonroe

...He really put a damper on what WAS a nice evening boating...for no real reason.

graph:

When those guys with badges get bored, there's no telling what they will do. Sometimes I think they choose to bother with the most innocent things just so they don't have to write lengthy reports.

I'm sure you saw more reckless things that night and said/thought, where are they when they are really needed?

There is plenty of summer left to have lots of good times before putting the boat away.

Sorry to hear about the spoiled evening.

jmonroe

melech37

I'm asking this question here, rather than in "Prices Paid", because many of the dealers/salesmen, who presumably are most aware of the market, seem to concentrate on this board:

I've been looking at the '06 Passat 2.0T. Edmunds shows no manufacturer's incentive, but a number of the mavins (including a dealer) over on the VWvortex site say there is indeed a $2,000 incentive available to dealers. This bothers me for 2 reasons: Specifically, I don't know how much my offer should be on this model if so so much cash is in question; In general, I've tended to look to Edmunds for reliable guides to pricing. If they miss a $2,000 incentive, where am I as a consumer supposed to get the information to negotiate intelligently, without wasting my time, or the time of a commissioned salesman?

BTW, a very few of you with memories of elephants may remember me from years back. I've been off the boards but now hope to read and contribute here when I have something worth taking up bandwidth.

Melech

bigdveedubgirl

I work for Audi, and I can tell you some times the marketing support that is available is for the DEALER not the customer. SO it might not be listed on Edmunds as an incentive. Because it is not customer cash or dealer cash, it is called marketing support it is not listed. Also, it can fluxuate from region to region. So do not hate edmunds, it is not their fault.

british_rover

Yeah Edmunds normaly does not catch marketing support from the manufacturer.

Right now there is I think 2,000 dollars in marketing support for LR3s and edmunds does not have it listed either.

au1994

Issues of trust with the salesman aside, I'd have a hard time with the BMW salesman as well, especially one with 10 yrs of "experience". Seriously, not knowing Audi has AWD? Isn't that kinda like not knowing if a Corvette has a V-8?

capitano

Corvettes have a V8?

bigdveedubgirl

That dealership was probably the sales guys 10th that year. He is probably one of those who comes to a store, Rocks the first month, I mean clean house. Sells 2 cars the next month. Blames lack of traffic, the management, the other salespeople and goes to another store and starts all over again. He doesnt have to learn his product or the comps. He wont be there long enough for it to matter.

advequityguy

hard to figure dealer incentives into YOUR offer for a car. Most of the time it is dependant on volume, and might not fully apply, if it will at all. think of it as bonus money offered to a dealership to make them more willing to spend money on advertising. it's not there for you. if a passat is what you want, pony up. if the ultimate bargain is your goal, i'd shop some competitor's models before i attempted to steal the dealerships money. better bargains abound in that segment. just my .02

snakeweasel

After the car dealer from Columbus ran his cigarette board over the other boat a year or two ago and got by with it are they being more careful now? That guy got no time, did he? Left the scene, took the boat back to Columbus, etc.

I spent two boating seasons on a Coast Guard small boat station, saw enough of that sort of thing to keep me off the waters for life.

melech37

Thanks for your replies, but I went back to Edmunds pricing, and they do indeed list "Manufacturers Support to Dealers" as a data catagory. I have to assume they simply missed the call on the car I'm interested in, as well as who knows how many other makes?

These data gaps in pricing are a problem not only for the consumer, but I believe also for the salesmen. I've often seen salesmen post that they like an informed consumer, one who will come in and make an initial offer that is reasonable. I agree. If I am confident that I know the pricing, my car shopping style is to make an OTD offer that can lead to a FAST and reasonably profitable sale for the dealer, saving us both time and mental grief. However, if I don't really know the pricing variables (and doubts about a $2,000 support item is a BIG pricing variable to me) then I will be forced to adopted the "SoCal" approach: Don't make the first offer, instead make the salesman invest energy and time in the transaction, and fish for him to make the offer, just in case there might be an incentive I don't know about that he will throw in.

Is this really to anyone's advantage?

Melech

PS No, I certainly don't hate Edmunds -- at 69 I try and conserve all energies for when they are most needed.

graphicguy

Last thing I'll post about boating....

jmonroe....I was just letting off steam about the river cop. I don't mind being boarded. Fact is, there should probably be more of that type of thing on the OH river where I boat. The cop was a total jerk, though. While the "Bajas" are flying by doing 80 ON THE WATER, I was being boarded for no good reason. If they want to hassle somebody, go get the guy in the Donzi with the throttle full open, in traffic, while sucking on a Jack Daniels bottle.

I've got a "Blue Water". It's not a speed boat, but can throw a pretty big wake when I open it up. It's just common courtesy to others on the water not to do that when there's a lot of river traffic. It really is dangerous for the smaller boats on the water when they encounter those big wakes.

I spend most spring/summer weekends on the river. I've seen my share of idiots (probably more idiots on the river than there are on public roads). The majority of water cops are good. They're courteous and helpful when you need them. This guy clearly rubbed me the wrong way because I feel I go out of my way to be courteous, and above all....safe. There was absolutely no good reason for him to board me and act the way he did. I told him that. He didn't like it, and I don't like him. Show just a little courtesy and I'll respond in kind.

You're right....there's a lot of good weather on the water left. Thanks for letting me rant. I'm headed back down to the river.

kyfdx

Yeah.. Campbell County...

I don't know about Joe Sixpack.... Usually, Joe Sixpack would turn around and help out.... then own up to it..

Still, he got ten years... Even if he is in a halfway house (In Newport?.. not exactly the Ritz).. and, loses his freedom for two years... That ain't exactly probation.. And, now he is a convicted felon. I'm not saying he didn't deserve more, but this was a plea-bargain, and I vaguely remember there were some problems with the eyewitness accounts, so maybe it was the best they could do..

I know the prosecuting attorney (Jack Porter) has a reputation for being very tough... I doubt they cut this guy any special breaks because he was rich (maybe just the opposite).

regards,
kyfdx
disclaimer: I live in Campbell County

snakeweasel

was just letting off steam about the river cop.

Just have to ask, was this a local police or was it Coast Guard?

prosa

I live within 5 miles of a major east coast army base. Across the street from the entrance to my neighborhood there is a Mazda dealership that keeps all of its Mazdas in the back, you can't even see them from the road or look at them after hours because they're behind the fence!. Guess what they have in the front rows? ALL the cars are used, high-speed sports cars: SVT Cobras (5 of them!), Camaros, Trans Ams, 300 Turbo and 350Zs, GTOs, Vettes, even saw a rare Supra. Its obvious they know what they are doing...

Many of the dealerships near me put the used cars out front along the road, and there aren't any military bases in the area. It actually makes sense. By putting the used cars in the most prominent locations the dealerships let passerby know what they have in stock. There's less of a need to do the same with the new cars, because everyone has an idea of what new cars the dealerships will have.

graphicguy

snake....to answer your question, these are the local water cops. The Coast Guard comes around but usually spends most of their time hanging close to the big barges going up and down the river. I also see them around the bridges quite a bit. Talk has it that they're always on the lookout for vessels that may be carrying weapons or bombs, too. Coast Guard folks that I've interfaced with have all been great.

The only time I may run into them is when we're anchored in open water. They'll usually come up just to make sure we're OK and joke around a little. That's about it.

Back on topic....I'm seeing a lot of stores that are handling nothing but used sports cars. Golf buddy just bought a very nice used 'vette from one of those places. He said their pricing was better than what he found on the Chevy store used lot, too.

benderofbows

Well, my main point was that the dealer apparently buys at auction and/or takes lots and lots of sports cars in on trade, because of the Army base. It's the only dealership I have seen where 80-90% of the used inventory is 2-seat or 2+2, high-powered, sexy-looking cars.

graphicguy

I would imagine those stores that specialize in used sports cars have enough people that are looking for those types of cars that they're making a successful business out of it.

Being close to a military base, I would think the target market is spot on.

I know the couple of used lots around me who specialize in those vehicles probably get their cars at auction. The best of those used higher end cars still reside on the BMW/Cadilac/Infiniti dealerships. The used lots of the new car dealerships are filled with all the Chevys & Fords you could want. I think they've found a "niche" for cars that the other used stores can't/won't handle. The higher mileage high end car trade-ins are probably shipped off to those lots, too.

I see a lot of "teen & 20 somethings" who want something a bit more exotic than a Malibu. They can't afford a new 325i, but can see their way into one that's 5 or 6 years old.

Of course, these are the same folks who are just as likely to spend more on a new set of oversized chromed wheels than they do on the car they put them on.

au1994

I see a lot of "teen & 20 somethings" who want something a bit more exotic than a Malibu. They can't afford a new 325i, but can see their way into one that's 5 or 6 years old

Never understood that mentality myself. When I was fresh out of school and ready to buy my 1st new car, I settled on a new Tacoma. Others in my circle of friends took the same route, compact P/U's various economy cars. But of course there's the one odd ball that just had to have a "better" ride. He settled on a 4 year old Acura Vigor. The rest of us lost count how many times he called looking for a ride because the Vigor was in the shop.

mac24

When I was fresh out of school and ready to buy my 1st new car............

I must have had a deprived childhood because I was many, many years out of school before I could justify the purchase of a new car.

qbrozen

**I was many, many years out of school before I could justify the purchase of a new car.**

Well, there's your problem right there. Justifying things just ain't in some of our repertoires.

au1994

yup. 20 something car nut + new job=lack of fiscal reponsibility.

Rent? Who needs a roof over your head!! :P

jlawrence01

The rest of us lost count how many times he called looking for a ride because the Vigor was in the shop.


I asked a group of 8 fifteen year olds to write out all the costs of automotive ownership as part of a little research I was doing on personal finance. These kids were very bright and are "smarter than the average bear."

Three failed to add in insurance.

Several added nothing for maintenance although two DID add a note that most repairs on a new car are covered by warranty.

No one mentioned the costs of acquisition - (i.e., sales tax, licensing, etc.)

All in all, I was impressed with the quality of the information I received although I had to explain the concept of depreciation to all of them.

There are a lot of people who associate luxury cars with being "bullet-proof" in terms of reliability. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are more things to go wrong on the more complex cars.

I almost wish for the days of SIMPLE cars like the Chevette. There were few things to go wrong on the vehicles and they were easily fixed by even the average mechanic.

jmonroe

...Justifying things just ain't in some of our repertoires.

I think I agree but what are they, where can I get some and are they expensive?

jmonroe

mazda6iguy

My friend went into a Kia dealership and was interested in a 2006 Rio sedan (with power pack). Anyway she liked the car and made an offer. Apparently the offer was too low, but the salesman handled it in a way that I found off putting.

She said "I'll make an offer of xxxxx and the first thing he said was "Then we're done. Thank you for coming in". He made no effort to show the offer to his mgr or negotiate with us. He just said "We're done".

It put a bad taste in my mouth with that dealership. We left. I said something to the effect of "We'll have to research this further. Thanks."

There was no effort to get us to up our offer. And, it was easy for him. There was no trade in, and it was a cash deal. He said something about no rebates at all on Kia's but I don't know the facts about that.

dino001

There are a lot of people who associate luxury cars with being "bullet-proof" in terms of reliability

It's a said fact, but if you think, it should not be. Fact of being cutting edge may be an excuse to fail for a space shuttle administered by the government, but not for a mass production commercial product. When they advertise new Lard Rover or Benz they don't say "we don't really know if this new computer-controlled gadget will work, but we put it anyway and charge you as it will". They actually imply it will work all the time.

While I can see reason for more instense maintenance on those wondermobiles or even can excuse shorter lifespan on superengines of those exotic sports cars, I simply fail to understand failure of electrical system because of some stupid switch, or airbag sensor failing after three years of service. These thing ARE SUPPOSED TO BE BULLETPROOF in $50K+ machines. There is no excuse for not being. If Toyota could do it, so can LR, MB, or Cadillac.

qbrozen

well, it depends on alot of things ... but, yeah, i agree he did a very poor job. Maybe he's disgruntled. You should have tried another salesperson maybe.

anyway, the one thing i do know is that kias and hyundais have VERY little difference between invoice and MSRP. So there's not alot of room to play with unless there are rebates/incentives.

snakeweasel

She said "I'll make an offer of xxxxx and the first thing he said was "Then we're done. Thank you for coming in". He made no effort to show the offer to his mgr or negotiate with us. He just said "We're done"

Just remember that sometimes its just to low. What use is taking a figure you know will be rejected to the sales manager? And there are times when the offer is just so far away from you that you know negotiations are worthless.

In other words you can be low enough not to be considered serious.

mazda6iguy

>>In other words you can be low enough not to be considered serious. Well, to me it made good sense of her offer. It was only a grand and change under sticker. But to be fair of the situation, we had walked in 'stone cold' to the dealership, as we had just stopped by with no real figures or game plan in our heads as to the nature of Kia's. So, I will do some reasearch and have her try again with another dealer. But I will never go back to that sales guy. You don't just say "see ya!" and not work with a customer...

jack47

".....It was only a grand and change under sticker....."

From what I've read here many guys start off with a grand under INVOICE for Hyundais.

Re military and sport cars....one of my grandsons enlisted in the 82nd airborne 20 months ago right out of high school...since then he successfully completed Ranger training, was promoted to Sergeant and Master Jumper. He leaves for Iraq this Wednesday...and...the point of my story.... with all this real "he-man" background...he (6'4"/220 lbs) bought ...not a supped up sports car...but a used 2003 black Lexus...which goes into storage today at Ft.Bragg.

stickguy

Looks like Bobst took a job selling Kias!

jlawrence01

He made no effort to show the offer to his mgr or negotiate with us. He just said "We're done".

Maybe the offer was too low, maybe you got the wrong salesman.

Many years ago (1984), I walked into a local dealership south of Richmond, VA planning to buy a NEW Chevrolet Cavalier. I had $9k to play with approved by my CU.

I talked to the salesman and the ONLY thing that he wanted to sell me was a two tone PINK Chevrolet Citation. The car was double-coyote ugly and a model that was considered to be unreliable. When I told him I wasn't going to buy that beast, he walked away and never came back.

Go to another dealership or back to the same dealership ... after you have done your homework.

audia8q

There was no effort to get us to up our offer

I don't know why they didn't try to counter or at least fish a little and see if your offer is movable.

Not speaking about your case specifically, but
if a customer makes an offer that is way off base I will fold my tent and launch the customer also but at the sometime the launch can be a disguised tactic....Alot of ego driven buyers make absurd offers but if you fold your tent quickly it forces them to 'blink'....either they will walk out and based of the previous offers nothing was lost...but if they are a real live buyer the take away will rattle them and they will raise their offer.

bobst

I think the dealer was very gracious. He gave you a quick response to your offer and thanked you for visiting their store.

I think you were treated very well and have nothing to complain about.

jipster

Yeah, you've got a good reason to complain. When the salesman stated, "Then we are done"...that rude comment trumped any of the false gratitude that followed. Pretty much the same thing as saying,"Sorry sir...we're just to far apart. Please don't let the door hit you in the [non-permissible content removed] on the way out."

If you want to buy from that dealership, go back, talk to the salesmanager about getting another salesman due to what you believe rude behavior from the previous one...then make a higher offer if you think it justified.

geo9

kias are junk. Why would you waste your money on one
of those? You got lucky the salesperson blew you off!

geo.......ex kia owner............ :lemon:

mazda6iguy

kias are junk. Why would you waste your money on one
of those? You got lucky the salesperson blew you off!

geo.......ex kia owner............ :lemon:

Because she wanted a new car and ONLY has 12k to work with, and that is a stretch to get to that amount. Right now she actually has 8k to spend.