Stories from the Sales Frontlines

cluedweasel

I'm sure you're going to get lots of advice. Here's my tuppence worth;

1. Research the vehicle your buying and make sure you have a price in mind to pay for it. Check the TMV here on Edmunds (bear in mind the TMV is an average of what people pay, not the lowest). Check the prices paid forum for the vehicle. Ask around the forums for the vehicle you're interested in.

2. If you have a trade, either sell it yourself or get a value from the "Real World Trade Values" (or something like that!) forum.

3. Have your own financing arranged from your credit union or similar before you go. If the dealer can beat their rate you can always go with them instead.

4. Your financing arrangements should have no effect on the negotiated price of the car.

5. Only negotiate on the price of the car, NEVER on payments.

6. Say NO to all the dealer add-ons - etching, mop&glo, wheel locks, etc. Keep an eye on the documentation fee too.

7. Don't be afraid to walk. There are plenty of other fish in the sea.

I'm sure I've forgotten something. Good luck!

jmonroe

...Help!!! I've never bought an new car before, on my own, and I am a little clueless LOL Thanks

I hope you listen to what 'cluedweasel' said in post #2940 because this is great advice.

To this let me add TAKE YOUR TIME you'll probably have this car for a few years. Therefore, don't make your decision in a couple of days. If a dealer tells you the price is "only good today", unless factory rebates are expiring that day, don't fall for that very old line. A truly good deal should be good for at least a couple of days.

Also, try to get a couple of quotes from dealers internet dept. I did that and it worked for me.

As 'cluedweasel' said you're going to get lots of advice. Be sure to read all the advice, this is part of the "take your time" process.

Good luck and post back how you did.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

Good luck on your car purchase. You got a lot of good advice already very little that can be added but I will try.

If you have a trade in selling it yourself will get you the best money out of it, but it is also the biggest hassle. If you are going to trade it in Cluedweasels advice is great, but if you have a Carmax nearby get them to give you a quote on it. That would be your fall back, so that if the dealer can't come close take it back to Carmax. Just remember that most states apply sales tax on the cost of the car less trade in. So depending on the trade in value you could save hundreds in sales tax.

Also some people like to negotiate, others don't and prefer to make a take it or leave it offer. Do what feels best for you, but make sure you do all the research that Cluedweasel mentioned.

The one thing that Cluedweasel didn't say and he should have said is let us know how this turns out.

Good luck and good hunting.

qbrozen

we've been reduced to racial profiling and brand bashing in here?

someone open the door and let some fresh air in, huh?

british_rover

Yeah it has gotten stagnant in here.

I got a general question for everyone.

Once you put a deposit down a car you stop the negotation right? I mean in general at that point you are done. Now there might be some F&I stuff that comes into play where you might negotiate that but we try to do all of that stuff ahead of time so it normaly does not matter.

I have just had someone for the third time, three seperate customers not the same person three times, now agree to a price on a deal with no trade and no finance stuff and then try and renegotiate the price after they have put a deposit down.

We do all of the numbers one day they put a deposit down then they call or come in the next day to pick up the car and sit down and want to talk about the price again.

I just don't get it.

Kirstie_H

Looks like BR did it for us, but I'm happy to add a spritz of Fabreeze (original scent, not the flowery stuff).

snakeweasel

Once you put a deposit down a car you stop the negotiation right?

For the most part I would say yes. I can see putting down a deposit in the middle of negotiations to hold a car so it doesn't get sold before you are done. But then only on a long drawn out negotiation on a hard to find car. But otherwise ( and in the vast majority of the time) I can't see putting a downpayment on a deal thats not set.

But I can't fault someone for trying to get a lower price.

louiswei

I would say yes. Once you put down the deposit you stop the negotiation. I know it's human nature to always want to get a lower price but if you don't agree on the price why put down the deposit?

Can't speak it for everyone but once I decide to put down the deposit I am done talking.

jmonroe

Once you put a deposit down a car you stop the negotation right? I mean in general at that point you are done.

I totally agree with you (don't look so surprised) the negotiation is OVER. On with the final paper work so I can go home and wax that beauty.

We do all of the numbers one day they put a deposit down then they call or come in the next day to pick up the car and sit down and want to talk about the price again.

SOOOO, finish the story. What did you do?

I know that if it were me, they take that deal or they drive home in what they drove in with.

jmonroe

british_rover

Well two of the three tiems this has happend in the past the deal fell apart. We could not take anything more off the car as we were already losing money on the deal in one situation and in the other situation it was for a car that you could not get so all were being sold at MSRP. This last time it happend over the phone and has not been resolved yet.

The guy is coming in tomorrow and we will see what we will see.

mac24

I think it depends on the circumstances under which the deposit was taken. Was the deposit part of a signed contract, or was it given to show intent but with details still to finalized?

If it was the former, and nothing has changed, I see no reason why the customer shouldn't be held to his side of the contract. In fact, there's little point in having a contract if he isn't.

tsgeisel

Wow. I agree that there's a point where you need to cut your losses, but the basic attitude has me underwhelmed.

As a more general question to the salesfolk out there, how do you decide when to cut your losses, and just end the negotiation process?

bobst

I think it is fine for one party to try to negotiate a different price after a deposit has been paid.

When we bought our Acura in 2003, we offered an exact OTD price and the sales manager accepted. When we got to the F&I lady, she tried to increase the price by a dollar. We told her we would not pay the higher price and started to leave, so she quickly reduced the price by one dollar. We gave her a check and drove the new car home.

I don't trust car dealers so I was not the least bit surprised or upset when she tried to get an extra dollar from us.

In the same vein, a sales person should not be aurprised when a customer tries to welch out of a deal. That's how it is in the real world.

gasman1

Re: Negotiating after the deal is done.

How many of us would accept salary negotiations after agreeing upon our salary? Think of that first payday at a new job and someone from HR or payroll saying, "we know that we agreed upon $x per hour/week/month/year." However, we've had a change of heart and you know our sales just aren't what we expected so we're going to pay you the agreed upon $x minus $y.

Of course buying a car and salary are totally different, or are they?

As a matter of moral principal, we can always say the deal (car purchase or job) is off. They don't hold up their end of the bargain, so why should we?

As a matter of life, we may review the situation and decide whether we will accept a change to the agreement. For most of us, that would be difficult to accept, but probably easier in a purchase deal.

jmonroe

...When we got to the F&I lady, she tried to increase the price by a dollar. We told her we would not pay the higher price and started to leave, so she quickly reduced the price by one dollar.

Bob,

Did they offer an excuse as to why the price went up, not that I would have believed any? Was this dealer known for playing games? If it took your getting up to leave before she decided to make the correction, I would have been inclined to restart the negotiation and would not have agreed to the sale unless the new price was at least one dollar less than the originally agreed upon price.

I just won't put up with the games that some dealers try to play.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

How many of us would accept salary negotiations after agreeing upon our salary?

Oh, you have never asked for a raise?

jipster

That took a lot of nerve for the F&I lady to try to increase the agreed upon price by a whole dollar. I'm sure in about 20-30 years of playing this "game" she will have saved up enough money to maybe get her hair and nails done.

An excuse why the price went up $1? Maybe, bobst had about 2 or 3 cups of coffee, a couple "free" sodas, and a couple bags of stale popcorn. They were just trying to recover some of their losses.

Come on guys...whining & threatening to walk out on a deal over one stinking buck???

snakeweasel

Just remember that agreeing to the extra $1 means that you are willing to pay more. That in turn could reopen the negotiations. It may have been that they were trying to get an extra buck or it could mean that they were trying to get a lot more.

british_rover

I have lost more deals because of a greedy F&I manager then any other reason.

I used to work with a F&I guy who was just not a people person at all he was in the totally wrong line of work.

I lost at least three deals that I know of because of things he did once I already had the person all set up with a price. All he had to do was give them a reasonable interest rate but he got greedy and tried to jack the rate up too much.

One person wanted 500 more dollars for his trade. It was just 500 dollars more and although we do not do over allowances in general 500 bucks would not have killed the deal. His refusal to just bump the trade 500 bucks when he was paying MSRP for the new truck killed the deal.

Both of those deals were ordered cars where the person had waited 3-4 months for the car to come in and they both closed the deal because of what happend with the F&I manager.

gasman1

Never had to ask. I just do my best to conintue improving the performance (financial as well as customer/employee satisfaction) of my team(s). I guess that if I had to ask, I either a) wouldn't deserve it in the first place or b) would be working in the wrong place.

jmonroe

Come on guys...whining & threatening to walk out on a deal over one stinking buck???

It's not that she raised the price by ONLY one dollar, it's the fact that the price was raised at all. I'm sure that everyone can afford an extra dollar, it's just that it shouldn't be done. Until Bob get's back to us on this we won't know what the reason was but according to his initial post it appears that until he made the move to leave she was trying to get one additional dollar.

As for any eating or drinking that Bob may have done, that's all part of doing business unless there was a sign that said, "Please have all you want but you'll PAY for this in the F&I office".

BTW, my bucks don't stink.

If you're listening Bob, PLEASE jump in.

jmonroe

nortsr1

Seems to me that the F&I lady probably had a hundred dollar bet with the salesman that she could get a buck more from Bobst...she evidently didn't know the Bobst is a ONE OFFER price only guy and he sticks to it.
Personally, if I knew I was getting a "GREAT BOBST PRICE" I would have paid the buck because you know tha Bobst goes for the jugular right off the bat and gets a great price.

bobst

Ah, the precious extra dollar.

I forget why she wanted to increase the price by a dollar. Maybe the sales manager wrote down an incorrect fee when he approved the price and the actual fee was one dollar more.

It didn't matter to us because we had made an OTD offer.

Anyway, this experience was nothing compared to what happened when we bought our 1999 Accord. We had made an OTD offer which included some very specific options (i.e. extra keys), which they had accepted. Just before going into the F&I guy, the sales person told us the extra keys would only open the doors but could not be used to drive the car.

Of course, my wife immediately grabbed her coat and got up to leave. They changed their mind and agreed to give us the keys we wanted.

By the way, the F&I guy was very nice and we enjoyed talking with him. He was an Italian guy who had recently come down from New York and he thought Mayor Guliani was great.

bobst

I don't know if we get great prices or not. It was the first Acura place we visited and they accepted our first offer, so they must have made some money from the deal.

Besides, the price of a car is not that big of a deal. The most important way to spend your money wisely is to buy a car that you really like and keep it for a long time.

adkcar

I am ready to bring my vehicle in as a possible trade for another vehicle.

My car passed inspection in late July. About 10 days later the chk eng light goes on.

What do car appraisers think when they see that?

I imagine it will knock down my trade-in value (which is a high mileage car to begin with). I don't really want to get it fixed first.

Thanks.

mac24

I don't really want to get it fixed first.

Why not get the code read and determine what the likely cost might be? You can get it checked out at Autozone for free. The 'check engine' light can even be caused by a loose gas cap.......... you might just get lucky!

snakeweasel

Just before going into the F&I guy, the sales person told us the extra keys would only open the doors but could not be used to drive the car.

Pardon my ignorance but do they really make keys that will only open doors and not start cars? If they do what is the purpose of that? To be honest I think they were making that one up.

capitano

GM used to make separate door and ignition keys. My Honda came with 2 normal keys and a valet key. The valet key could not open the trunk.

snakeweasel

Yeah but GM doesn't do the two key system anymore, also how many cars use a valet key since you can pop the trunk open from the inside with most cars?

imidazol97

Our newer car has valet keys. The trunk switch is lockable to prevent valet driver from pushing it to access the trunk.

Our older car has regular keys with ignition and trunk, however the switch for trunk button enable is inside the glovebox, which can be locked .

steine13

Chipped keys. Only the ignition requires the chip to work.... IOW you can still turn the key, but it won't woik.

BTW, bobst isn't really "telling" that story... it's a bit of an inside joke since a lot of guys have indicated they can't take another rendition of the &^*%$ key story.

Me, I don't mind. The "extra dollar" thing, on the other hand... :shades:

As far as the CEL: First step, always, disconnect the battery, say an Our Father -- it probably won't help, it certainly won't hurt, and the duration is about right -- and then reconnect.

Next, reprogram your radio... unless it's got its own backup battery. Then, drive the car. Many many CEL's are simply an erroneous occurrence like "leak detected in the evaporative emissions" or some such.

If it stays off, good on ya, mate. If it continues to stay off, forget about it. If it comes back, go to Autozone and have them read it out for you. If they can't interpret the code (P09314 or some such), write it down and google it, together with the make/model of your car. Then take it from there.

The UC manager is going to assume the worst when he sees the light, and subtract accordingly. Because he *knows* you don't want to mess with it and will be inclined to let him have the car relatively cheap.

Good luck,
-Mathias

british_rover

Yeah most keys have immoblizer chips in the keys now that have to be programed. Typically the service department charges one hour of labor to program the key and that can be as much as 100 dollars of labor charged to the sales department.

So it sounds like the sales department was trying to get out of the labor charge to program the keys.

A key for a LR3, Range Rover Sport or Range Rover costs around 300 dollars just for the key as they are VIN coded to the car and laser cut in the UK then shipped overnight to the parts department. After that they still have to be programed to the car and that costs another 90 or so dollars.

jmonroe

I have lost more deals because of a greedy F&I manager then any other reason.

I used to work with a F&I guy who was just not a people person at all he was in the totally wrong line of work.

I lost at least three deals that I know of because of things he did once I already had the person all set up with a price. All he had to do was give them a reasonable interest rate but he got greedy and tried to jack the rate up too much.

Rover,

Given the above has happened to you, how do you keep peace in the family when you bust your buns to do your job, only to have it taken away by the F&I person? I know I'd be irate!!

There is an F&I guy that hangs out here on occasion, I can't imagine he's the type that would do this kind of thing.

jmonroe

jmonroe

A key for a LR3, Range Rover Sport or Range Rover costs around 300 dollars just for the key as they are VIN coded to the car and laser cut in the UK then shipped overnight to the parts department. After that they still have to be programed to the car and that costs another 90 or so dollars.

I know that there is nothing inexpensive on a Rover but I think $400 for a key would bring most Rover owners to their knees when they heard this.

I wonder how mark156 would react to this?

jmonroe

snakeweasel

I don't know about that, if you're paying upwards of 100k+ for a car $400 is chump change. I would bet that many of the high end Rover buyers spend $400 for dinner on a (at least) semi regular basis.

mark156

Well jmonroe, I certainly wouldn't want to pay $400 for key, but, what choice would I have? They keys are very sophisticated which is for our protection.

Of the 14 cars that I have owned since 1977, I have never needed a new key, ever. Tomorrow is a new day.

I'm still averaging about 11.5-12.0 miles per gallon on the LR3... at $3.56 a gallon for premium... it's not cheap! I'm at 5,810 miles and hopefully the engine will break in soon and I can get the 14 mpg city that the sticker suggested!

Mark156

jmonroe

I'm still averaging about 11.5-12.0 miles per gallon on the LR3... at $3.56 a gallon for premium... it's not cheap! I'm at 5,810 miles and hopefully the engine will break in soon and I can get the 14 mpg city that the sticker suggested!

Are you really worried about getting up to the sticker no. of 14? I have never checked but I'm sure I'm not getting what's shown on mine either. Maybe I'm afraid to find out I really can't afford them.

Rest assured, your engine is already broken in and it's not going to give you any better MPG from here on in. Now, if you can't live with that gas hog are you willing to unload it? I won't go over 30K, if that's too insulting then we can't do business. I'd have to feed that thing too you know. Think it over. Gas prices aren't going to get any lower and my offer isn't going to go any higher because I've done my research on gas hogs.

BTW, how do you like the rest of it?

jmonroe

doanej

I'm in my 3rd month of this new experience. Last month I was the top salesman at a relatively new delearship (we opened in january) and this month i have yet to make a sale. Any advice for a newbie?

qbrozen

just my answer on this topic:
once the deposit is done, the deal is done. period.
just as I wouldn't accept the salesperson changing the price of the car after we agreed and I put down a deposit, I don't think the salesperson should accept a change in price from me.

mac24

First, you get this months prize for a fresh and on-topic post! :shades:

Second, in any sales job you have to average out your income over a longer period than a month at a time. Have you done any analysis of your figures? Are the customers not there, or are you failing to close properly this month? Was the dealership writing great deals for the first few months to get their name established locally, but now they're cutting back? Maybe last month you went 110% at every 'up' because you didn't know any better, but lately you've been taking the advice of some old timers who knew that couldn't possibly work!

Research your recent performance, also that of your collegues, and an analysis should provide a logical answer.

mark156

jmonore, I'm very happy with the vehicle and have no intention of selling it until it's about 3 or 4 yrs old. In the past, I have always exceeded the posted mpg's and was hoping to do the same on this one. If it happens, it happens. :shades:

My 2002 ML500 was getting rather low mileage until about 8,000 miles then it went noticeably higher.

Mark156

british_rover

The driveline has not really broken in yet. The LR3 has four gear boxes to break in and even though the engine is basicly broken in at the factory and is completly broken in within the first couple of thousand miles the gearboxes are not broken in till much later.

Still that mileage does sound low. Most of my clients are getting 16-17 in mixed city highway driving.

People that are doing purely city driving are getting between 13 and 14.

The few people that have gone on long trips are breaking the 20 mpg mark with four or five passengers. If you have not had to have any warranty work on the car yet then you might not have had the various software updates that are out now.

That might be all the LR3 needs is some software updates cause that mileage does sound low even for your low current mileage.

As for people's other questions I will answer those later I am off to home depot.

doanej

it seems as though i've had more bad credit "customers" than anyone else. I've thought about anything i could be doing differently, but i dont think i am. part of the problem is my dealership doesn't have secondary finance options for people with shady credit, which i think is stupid cause we are a hyundai dealer. i've had at least 10 people willing to buy, but they couldn't get financed.

doanej

why is it the only topic on this board is on LR?

capitano

That, detective, is the right question.

jmonroe

why is it the only topic on this board is on LR?

Cause we like LR's, NEWBIE !!!

As you have said you're a newbie. Sooo, let's have a newbie story (we'll take anything at this point) and good luck with your new profession.

jmonroe

biancar

Hey, thanks for trying to bring up something different! You get the gold medal of the month for that far as I'm concerned.

Some of us readers were bored stiff with the LR discussion, so it was good to hear your new voice.

Re your customers, sounds like financing is part of it, but maybe there's something you could do to pro-actively go after new customers. Does Hyandai give you any marketing support, like the names and addresses of people who bought 3 or 4 years ago? You could do a postcard campaign perhaps to those folks. Are the 2007's out yet? Maybe that could be the hook.

Sales is a tough profession, good luck and hope you can stick it out.

mark156

I apologize for talking about my LR3... I was just answering a question and you know, one thing leads to another.

I'll try and post future Land Rover discussions over at the Land Rover board.

Mark

doanej

Last sat a woman tried to return her car after driving it for a week, cause when she ashed her cigarette, the ashes came back in the window....

later that day a guy yelled and cursed at me and the dealership cause we have a dealer doc fee of 399. I was giving him figures inside on what the car he was looking at would cost him exactly.

lets see, the worst credit case i had was a couple days ago when a woman who was 1 year out of bancruptcy after her house and car were forclosed on, she wanted to buy a car.

i've also had a lady with FOUR bankruptcies in the last 10 years try to buy a car, LOL!!!!!

british_rover

Yes our bad we will have a mortarium on Land Rover stories for a while.