Nope no more new Land Rovers at least I will still sell them used from time to time. I have said before that the only way to make real money around here is to sell used cars. Well my dealership only has 14 used cars in stock or on the way to the lot right now and never has more then 20 used cars.
The other dealership I am moving too which is a Volvo/Saab combo for new cars has 80 used cars either in stock or on the way right now and sometimes has even more then that. Lastly they average about 40 ups per salesperson month to date and we average less then 20. An average ups per month here is less then 40 and for them is around 80. You have to meet the people to sell the cars and you just can't do that here.
Oh and one other thing with the way our margins are getting squeezed from all sides here at Land Rover we will be averaging about 150-180 bucks commission per new car soon. Volvo and Saab are on a tired flat scale depending on how many cars you sell that tops out around 150 bucks. I feel a lot better selling 30k-50k dollar cars and making a flat 130-150 bucks then I do selling 40k-100k dollar cars and making a flat 140-180 bucks.
OOhh a M3 wagon is very, very interesting and a bit more adventurous then I thought BMW would be.
Well, BMW did offer an E34 M5 Touring in Europe. In fact, there was a company in the New England area(I think) that used to convert US spec. 525i Tourings into M5s. They did an excellent job, but it was not a simple or inexpensive conversion.
Anything else to this rumor?
Only what I've read in a couple of magazines- that BMW is considering producing the wagon. I still have a couple of friends at NA so I'll see what I can find out.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The flats are only for new cars. For used cars commissions are 20% of the gross after a 300 dollar pack.
Land Rover was the only dealership that had percentage commissions for new cars anymore but the packs are so huge that discounting a vehicle by more then a couple of thousand dollars is a 150 dollar mini. Land Rover has been tightening our margins some too and since the packs are a percentage of invoice that increases the packs even more relative to the MSRP.
I worked out a spreadsheet a while ago showing how messed up the new car pay plan is but no one will change it.
I will publish that Spreadsheet for a while on google docs but I will take it down eventually.
Wow! That's terrible. Your GM must be related to ours. Looks like that's the wave of the future. Dealer principals are greedy. They want perfect csi's, want you to look "professional", bend over backwards for customers, but not willing to pay for it. :confuse:
See the trick is that the pay plan isn't written out that way when it is presented. They show you the sliding scale 15, 18 and 22 percent commissions, the higher the volume the higher the percentage, that you get on the gross after the pack. Well the pack is shown as a percent of invoice either 2% or 3% but no where on the pay plan does it say how much the invoices are. Well 3% of the invoice on a 105,000 dollar car is nearly 3,000 dollars and a pack that big takes out most of your commission potential before the customer even starts asking for a discount.
If the pay plan was presented without all the smoke and mirrors as a commission structure between 4 and 8 percent then it would be much more clear. Of course if they did that they wouldn't hire anyone because they would all leave the second they saw how the pay plan works.
That pay plan is structured around getting MSRP or near MSRP sales and that hasn't happened at this store in over a year.
What do you guys think is influencing this kind of change? besides greed that is One of the appealing aspects of any commission based sales job has always been the income potential. This seems to remove that to a great extent.
Ya, that's a terrible pay plan. You must be ecstatic to be leaving. That dealership has no interest in keeping its employees.
I agree. Some dealers think that a big shiny box and screamer ads will sell cars. We have $175 mini, $225 on new Mazdas, no pack, at least 20% gross, and we get paid on trades - if they wholesale for more that they are taken in for. Benz dealer nearby has a scale, but it goes up to 33%, and their mini is $300.
The other dealership I am moving too which is a Volvo/Saab combo for new cars has 80 used cars either in stock or on the way right now and sometimes has even more then that.
My bad
I misunderstood your post. I thought you were becoming a wholesaler for your group.''
We have young whipper snappers running dealerships now. I call them the Nintendo generation as most grew up playing video games. They have no sense or urgency as they spend most of their time texting their girlfriends and playing games on the computer. We take a deal to them and have to literally throw something at them or yell to get their attention. I stopped to see my old GSM who is at the Toyota store I went to back in 05 and I'm very tempted to go back. As a matter of fact he told to give him a call when I'm ready to make a move. He told me would make space for me if they didn't have a vacancy. That's nice to know. At least their payplan is not as hosed as ours is.
Seems to me too much emphasis is being placed on internet advertising and web sales even though they are just a small percentage of total sales. Nothing can replace the "belly to belly" and customer focused sales. It seems our store is trying to become the Best Buy of car dealerships. Hiring younk kids who have no clue of what they are selling and blow more customers out than Joel when he was a greenpea. :lemon:
As opposed to driving IN garbage. The car makers have finally started making reliable cars (well most have) and now all the fun is going to be taken out of them.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Benz dealer nearby has a scale, but it goes up to 33%,
33% of what? Difference between MSRP and Invoice?
Yes, gross minus pack ($500 I think). To get to that you have to sell something like 18 cars, with 2 of them used, and your CSI has to be something like 95%.
Pack is supposed to cover the cost of doing business and it's spread out over every deal. I happened to think it is a way for the dealer to keep from having to pay a salesman on all the profit he has earned on a particular deal. Either way, it's a necessity for car dealers to have and it will vary from dealer to dealer as to what percentage it is. Where I work, it's 1% of invoice on a new car and 3% of dead cost on a pre-owned. Whatever's left over, 30% is mine.
Either way, it's a necessity for car dealers to have and it will vary from dealer to dealer as to what percentage it is. Where I work, it's 1% of invoice on a new car and 3% of dead cost on a pre-owned. Whatever's left over, 30% is mine
One point I disagree: it is not a nesessity, we don't have a pack. We have holdback for that (and almost everyone else).
"Yes, gross minus pack ($500 I think). To get to that you have to sell something like 18 cars, with 2 of them used, and your CSI has to be something like 95%."
And you also have to make sure the moon is aligned with Venus, and it's a fool moon. Don't you love these "pay plans"?
I miss the old days when you were paid on comissionable gross after pack and paid on holdback too. There was nothing wrong with 20% on $999.00 or less, 25% on $1000-1499 and 30% on $1500 and up. Unit bonuses at 8, 10, 12, and 15, no three or two used car requirement, 10% back end and pro-packs added to the gross. Pack was $100.00 on new and 300 on used. Turnover was low, everyone was making money, everyone was happy, customers were happy. 98% CSI highest in the store. But in this business you're only as good as your next deal. Mack
Maybe you're right. Maybe I've been brainwashed into thinking pack is acceptable... One thing I cannot stand, though, is when our doc fee goes up. Everytime our dealer goes to a 20 group meeting, it seems like something is increased, whether it be pack or the doc fee. I would be interested to hear what other dealers' doc fees(admin fee) are. Where I work, it's 239.50.
"One point I disagree: it is not a nesessity, we don't have a pack. We have holdback for that (and almost everyone else)."
I agree with you. Packs are just another way for dealers to take away what's due their sales people and keeping more for themselves. Kind of like skimming from the top. Mack
Here in my neck of the woods they call it a "processing fee". It's nothing but pure profit for the dealership and the sales force doesn't see any of it. Ours is $399.00 and it's not required by law.
Management says that we have to charge it to everyone otherwise we are open to a lawsuit. What a load of garbage that is. If that were the case we would never waive it. It still has to be shown on the buyer's order so it comes off the price of the car. The VADA even prints a three fold brochure to explain processing fees in the state of VA. The language is very vague. It tells you the processing fee has nothing to do with DMV title and registration, it is for "other services provided by the dealer in conjunction with your transaction", What the :"other services" are is never explained.
I wish I would have gotten in on this racket when Toyota first came to the US. I'd be a billionaire.
Hey G P I have bin a long time reader of the Forams Love Nissans toyotas and Hondas. Y arent there any peapol who work at hundai or kia on this foram if there is anyone out there that works at a dealership for hundai or kia let us no. grate cars also. Now anyway G P I am in the Markit for a Nissan virsa Car not the Hatchback moddle. whell it is for my dad. Can you contact me threw email Marcogallo1986@yahoo.com so we can take this off this bord. WHat state is your nissan dealer in. I am in New York. and before I forget the Maranno is celling real good so is the altima and alot of other nissans to. has bine like that for years. just email me when you get time to do that. got a quote from a dealer in Pa fits mall he told me $15000 with out taxes and other stuff for the virsa car I am looking for one in red said to me it is a rair color for the car moddle that is Y it is so mutch mor then if you got a nother color of the same moddle. I am looking for the s Moddle. Might be a short suply now with gas prices and all that is it sorry for going on and on guys sorry about my spelling I no I am not good with spelling thankyou for reading my posting. Marco.
I don't think pack is necessary for new cars but it is necessary for used cars. Lets say you sell 20 used cars in a month and there is a 300 dollar pack on each one. That gives you a 6,000 dollar self insurance policy if something happens to one of those 20 cars next month and it is not covered by a manufactured or certified warranty. If one of those cars loses an engine or transmission within the 30 or 60 day state warranty then the dealership is covered.
For new cars it is just a way for the dealership to pay sales people less. The dealership figures that it wants to average XXX dollars in commission per sale and that they need a pack of XXX dollars or X percent of invoice to reach that average commission. They also want to limit their maximum exposure as well so just to have some real numbers in their instead of variables consider this.
The company only wants to pay an average of 500 dollars in commission and they want to limit their top end exposure to 1,000 dollars. This excludes bonuses and is just pure commission. In order to stay within these targets they will set a pack of so much to keep any salesperson from getting over 1,000 dollars on a single new car sale and to try and hit their average of 500 dollars.
I know what the pay plans are like at other Land Rover dealers because one I have gotten copies of them from other dealers and I have the financial summaries from Land Rover directly. Our average commission per new car retailed is about 200 dollars less then the average commission paid by other Land Rover dealers in our volume group and over 200 dollars less then dealers in our geographic market.
We are in the bottom 20 percent when compared to other Land Rover dealers in regard to pay.
Easy mistake to make in this case Mad. Don't worry about it. I'll bet many of us were thinking the same thing. I know I was. At any rate I wish him the best of luck.
There is about $650 mark up in these vehicles... Not much at all. so no matter which one you pick out you will get a great deal on.
I would also suggest the Sentra because there is a $1000 rebate and special financing. You just a couple dollars a month you might want to look into that also. More space and better pick up.
Good luck!
For the record also... We stopped ordering Versa sedans,,, We don't have any on stock now also... because most people buying Versa's are buying the hatchback's... Anyone looking at Versa sedans we are switching them to a Sentra.
Hey moo, people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. "Noone" is that noon or you meant no one? Mack Although I agree with your first statement. Looks like a made up post. :shades:
We are in the bottom 20 percent when compared to other Land Rover dealers in regard to pay.
WOW...that is bad. It sounds like your store has given you more than enough reasons to go elsewhere. Like I've said before, "the reputation the car biz has gotten is well deserved, they will take advantage of anyone and their employees are no exception".
I wish you all the best and from what you have said, I doubt you could do any worse.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Curious what I'm doing wrong and thought I would check with the experts.
I'm at the end of my lease with my BMW-325i with two payments remaining and am going on vacation at the end of the month and wanted to get something bigger for the trip and decided to buy a Highlander.
I want a Limited with Nav/upgraded JBL system only, but these seem to be rare in TX in the color I want (white). The dealer has a white one with the JBL sytem (not nav) and several other options I really don't care much about, but can live with, i.e. rear auto AC, auto rear door, etc. Each of their cars also have what they call vehicle sheild with is $349 (sealant, scotch guard, etc.).
I arranged for a pre-approved loan. I drove my car to the dealer and was up front with him. Told him what I wanted and asked that he drive my car and give me and estimate. He did and offered $23,000 which is about $1700 less than the trade-in value according to Edmunds. The car is garage kept and absolutely mint with only 20,000 miles. I expected this and this is still $750 over my pay-off and a figure I can live with.
I told him we could make this quick and easy. I knew they had a $750 rebate on these vehicles and that he could keep that and sale me the car at invoice and we would have a deal. He goes back to the mgr and comes back with an invoice which shows dealer HB, PIM HB, etc. and a total that is much higher than what edmunds list. However, the otions prices were exact. I told him these figures were high and that I would send him what I got from edmunds.
I knew they were going to drive a hard bargain so I emailed them the edmunds info and went up in my offer matching the TMV which amounted to about $500 over invoice with the $750 rebate included. They called me and told me to come in that the car was being cleaned up and that we were going to be able to make a deal. When I got there the price they had worked up was still about $2300 over invoice and he proceeded to explain that they were really only able to give me $22,500 for my car and that's why it was a "little" higher. The best I could do was $1500 over invoice and they refused to recognize the figures listed on Edmunds.
With gas prices being what they are and having bought many cars in the past I couldn't belive they wouldn't budge. I made a call to the general manger, but he wouldn't even return my call. The salesman was a really nice guy, but new. When I talked about dealer hold backs, etc. he admitted he really didn't know what I was talking about. I think he might be part of the problem and I'm not at all sure he showed them the email I sent him.
Are the Highlanders that hot of a ticket? Like I said, I wanted to do something before vacation, but it looks like I'm not going to be able to unless I take a beating.
What am I doing wrong?
I apologize for this being so long and hope I'm posting this question to the right forum. Thanks so much for your time.
Comments
The other dealership I am moving too which is a Volvo/Saab combo for new cars has 80 used cars either in stock or on the way right now and sometimes has even more then that. Lastly they average about 40 ups per salesperson month to date and we average less then 20. An average ups per month here is less then 40 and for them is around 80. You have to meet the people to sell the cars and you just can't do that here.
Oh and one other thing with the way our margins are getting squeezed from all sides here at Land Rover we will be averaging about 150-180 bucks commission per new car soon. Volvo and Saab are on a tired flat scale depending on how many cars you sell that tops out around 150 bucks. I feel a lot better selling 30k-50k dollar cars and making a flat 130-150 bucks then I do selling 40k-100k dollar cars and making a flat 140-180 bucks.
Well, BMW did offer an E34 M5 Touring in Europe. In fact, there was a company in the New England area(I think) that used to convert US spec. 525i Tourings into M5s. They did an excellent job, but it was not a simple or inexpensive conversion.
Anything else to this rumor?
Only what I've read in a couple of magazines- that BMW is considering producing the wagon. I still have a couple of friends at NA so I'll see what I can find out.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
No matter what you sell the vehicle for you make a tiered mini? That sounds terrible!
Am I missing something? Why would you put in the hours of a car salesman for a $30k job?
Please tell me I'm missing something.
-moo
Land Rover was the only dealership that had percentage commissions for new cars anymore but the packs are so huge that discounting a vehicle by more then a couple of thousand dollars is a 150 dollar mini. Land Rover has been tightening our margins some too and since the packs are a percentage of invoice that increases the packs even more relative to the MSRP.
I worked out a spreadsheet a while ago showing how messed up the new car pay plan is but no one will change it.
I will publish that Spreadsheet for a while on google docs but I will take it down eventually.
Spreadsheet
:confuse:
If the pay plan was presented without all the smoke and mirrors as a commission structure between 4 and 8 percent then it would be much more clear. Of course if they did that they wouldn't hire anyone because they would all leave the second they saw how the pay plan works.
That pay plan is structured around getting MSRP or near MSRP sales and that hasn't happened at this store in over a year.
One of the appealing aspects of any commission based sales job has always been the income potential. This seems to remove that to a great extent.
I also wish you well with the move b_r.
I agree. Some dealers think that a big shiny box and screamer ads will sell cars.
We have $175 mini, $225 on new Mazdas, no pack, at least 20% gross, and we get paid on trades - if they wholesale for more that they are taken in for.
Benz dealer nearby has a scale, but it goes up to 33%, and their mini is $300.
I have 3 Muranos out this month and it is summer time. Murano's haven't been hurting.
GP
Congratulations Rover... :shades:
Does that mean I can call you for a number on a car
gP
The other dealership I am moving too which is a Volvo/Saab combo for new cars has 80 used cars either in stock or on the way right now and sometimes has even more then that.
My bad
I misunderstood your post. I thought you were becoming a wholesaler for your group.''
GP
Seems to me too much emphasis is being placed on internet advertising and web sales even though they are just a small percentage of total sales. Nothing can replace the "belly to belly" and customer focused sales. It seems our store is trying to become the Best Buy of car dealerships. Hiring younk kids who have no clue of what they are selling and blow more customers out than Joel when he was a greenpea.
:lemon:
33% of what? Difference between MSRP and Invoice?
That's exactly why it was popular for a time. Besides, if you drive one Arnold S. might want to be your friend. How cool is that!.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
As opposed to driving IN garbage. The car makers have finally started making reliable cars (well most have) and now all the fun is going to be taken out of them.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
33% of what? Difference between MSRP and Invoice?
Yes, gross minus pack ($500 I think).
To get to that you have to sell something like 18 cars, with 2 of them used, and your CSI has to be something like 95%.
What is pack?
Either way, it's a necessity for car dealers to have and it will vary from dealer to dealer as to what percentage it is. Where I work, it's 1% of invoice on a new car and 3% of dead cost on a pre-owned. Whatever's left over, 30% is mine.
That's a big baby. My second was that big. The other three were smaller, though one came pretty close.
One point I disagree: it is not a nesessity, we don't have a pack. We have holdback for that (and almost everyone else).
Mico
To get to that you have to sell something like 18 cars, with 2 of them used, and your CSI has to be something like 95%."
And you also have to make sure the moon is aligned with Venus, and it's a fool moon. Don't you love these "pay plans"?
I miss the old days when you were paid on comissionable gross after pack and paid on holdback too. There was nothing wrong with 20% on $999.00 or less, 25% on $1000-1499 and 30% on $1500 and up. Unit bonuses at 8, 10, 12, and 15, no three or two used car requirement, 10% back end and pro-packs added to the gross. Pack was $100.00 on new and 300 on used. Turnover was low, everyone was making money, everyone was happy, customers were happy. 98% CSI highest in the store. But in this business you're only as good as your next deal.
Mack
I'm dreaming again.
One thing I cannot stand, though, is when our doc fee goes up. Everytime our dealer goes to a 20 group meeting, it seems like something is increased, whether it be pack or the doc fee.
I would be interested to hear what other dealers' doc fees(admin fee) are. Where I work, it's 239.50.
I agree with you. Packs are just another way for dealers to take away what's due their sales people and keeping more for themselves. Kind of like skimming from the top.
Mack
Management says that we have to charge it to everyone otherwise we are open to a lawsuit. What a load of garbage that is. If that were the case we would never waive it. It still has to be shown on the buyer's order so it comes off the price of the car. The VADA even prints a three fold brochure to explain processing fees in the state of VA. The language is very vague. It tells you the processing fee has nothing to do with DMV title and registration, it is for "other services provided by the dealer in conjunction with your transaction", What the :"other services" are is never explained.
I wish I would have gotten in on this racket when Toyota first came to the US. I'd be a billionaire.
For new cars it is just a way for the dealership to pay sales people less. The dealership figures that it wants to average XXX dollars in commission per sale and that they need a pack of XXX dollars or X percent of invoice to reach that average commission. They also want to limit their maximum exposure as well so just to have some real numbers in their instead of variables consider this.
The company only wants to pay an average of 500 dollars in commission and they want to limit their top end exposure to 1,000 dollars. This excludes bonuses and is just pure commission. In order to stay within these targets they will set a pack of so much to keep any salesperson from getting over 1,000 dollars on a single new car sale and to try and hit their average of 500 dollars.
I know what the pay plans are like at other Land Rover dealers because one I have gotten copies of them from other dealers and I have the financial summaries from Land Rover directly. Our average commission per new car retailed is about 200 dollars less then the average commission paid by other Land Rover dealers in our volume group and over 200 dollars less then dealers in our geographic market.
We are in the bottom 20 percent when compared to other Land Rover dealers in regard to pay.
How's your family's health?
-moo
Same thing as a doc fee....
GP
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
There is about $650 mark up in these vehicles... Not much at all. so no matter which one you pick out you will get a great deal on.
I would also suggest the Sentra because there is a $1000 rebate and special financing. You just a couple dollars a month you might want to look into that also. More space and better pick up.
Good luck!
For the record also... We stopped ordering Versa sedans,,, We don't have any on stock now also... because most people buying Versa's are buying the hatchback's... Anyone looking at Versa sedans we are switching them to a Sentra.
GP
"Noone" is that noon or you meant no one?
Mack
Although I agree with your first statement. Looks like a made up post.
:shades:
Mack
WOW...that is bad. It sounds like your store has given you more than enough reasons to go elsewhere. Like I've said before, "the reputation the car biz has gotten is well deserved, they will take advantage of anyone and their employees are no exception".
I wish you all the best and from what you have said, I doubt you could do any worse.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
j/k isell.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".
I think the original is deep in thought about this. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mack
I'm at the end of my lease with my BMW-325i with two payments remaining and am going on vacation at the end of the month and wanted to get something bigger for the trip and decided to buy a Highlander.
I want a Limited with Nav/upgraded JBL system only, but these seem to be rare in TX in the color I want (white). The dealer has a white one with the JBL sytem (not nav) and several other options I really don't care much about, but can live with, i.e. rear auto AC, auto rear door, etc. Each of their cars also have what they call vehicle sheild with is $349 (sealant, scotch guard, etc.).
I arranged for a pre-approved loan. I drove my car to the dealer and was up front with him. Told him what I wanted and asked that he drive my car and give me and estimate. He did and offered $23,000 which is about $1700 less than the trade-in value according to Edmunds. The car is garage kept and absolutely mint with only 20,000 miles. I expected this and this is still $750 over my pay-off and a figure I can live with.
I told him we could make this quick and easy. I knew they had a $750 rebate on these vehicles and that he could keep that and sale me the car at invoice and we would have a deal. He goes back to the mgr and comes back with an invoice which shows dealer HB, PIM HB, etc. and a total that is much higher than what edmunds list. However, the otions prices were exact. I told him these figures were high and that I would send him what I got from edmunds.
I knew they were going to drive a hard bargain so I emailed them the edmunds info and went up in my offer matching the TMV which amounted to about $500 over invoice with the $750 rebate included. They called me and told me to come in that the car was being cleaned up and that we were going to be able to make a deal. When I got there the price they had worked up was still about $2300 over invoice and he proceeded to explain that they were really only able to give me $22,500 for my car and that's why it was a "little" higher. The best I could do was $1500 over invoice and they refused to recognize the figures listed on Edmunds.
With gas prices being what they are and having bought many cars in the past I couldn't belive they wouldn't budge. I made a call to the general manger, but he wouldn't even return my call. The salesman was a really nice guy, but new. When I talked about dealer hold backs, etc. he admitted he really didn't know what I was talking about. I think he might be part of the problem and I'm not at all sure he showed them the email I sent him.
Are the Highlanders that hot of a ticket? Like I said, I wanted to do something before vacation, but it looks like I'm not going to be able to unless I take a beating.
What am I doing wrong?
I apologize for this being so long and hope I'm posting this question to the right forum. Thanks so much for your time.