GP, you're right in pointing out that US tax rules don't apply. Tax on vehicles in CA is a state tax called "use tax" which is computed as a percentage of the vehicle sale price. But that percentage differs from county to county, where local counties may add special assessments for such things as highway improvements.
My expectation is that I should be charged the 7.75% based on my residence address but I've been told to make out a single check to the dealer in an amount which includes tax at a rate of 7.25%, the tax rate in the dealer's county. Because my sales relationship has been with CarsDirect (notwithstanding opinions to the contrary on this forum!), if the dealer asks me to pay the difference, I may tell them to collect it from CarsDirect rather than from me.
As far as registration, the payment to the dealer includes registration and license fees and I have not doubt that they'll have me complete all the necessary forms and will handle the registration. This was done for my two prior CarsDirect purchases, although those cars were picked up at the dealership.
If so, I'm not surprised. That market is so ruined that there are dealers willing to sell cars and almost lose money on them. It is as cutthroat as can be down there.
No matter what you say you got or what you paid, someone here will say you could have gotten a better deal, better color, better service. Pretty much anything to make you feel bad for not buying from them.
ps, I agree with you that change in car selling ways must happen as folks are just fed up with the system as it is now.
Jealousy runs rampant here. I quit buying cars altogether because of all the BS from dealerships.
mako1a, I suspect the system will change in time but until that happens, CarsDirect and other buying services do afford folks an alternative. However, even with those, you still can't help but wondering..."Did I get a good deal?" It's human nature and all part of the buyer's remorse process.
OK, by way of update, I took delivery of my new Highlander. Two retired gentlemen arrived to deliver the car. They completed the paperwork, handed over the keys and manuals, took my check and departed. But the amount I was charged was NOT what CarsDirect had told me! It was less! OK, only by $23 but I'll take it. And those are the kind of surprises that you'd like to have when making a big purchase.
Two things bothered me but probably aren't a big deal. First, the car had 276 miles on it. Now 100 of that was driving it up from Antioch Toyota. But I had to wonder whether this had been a demo. I asked the delivery team and they told me that it was probably driven in from another dealer. In any case, the warranty was written to start at 286 miles. The second concern was that there was no sticker on the car, nor did they supply me with one. I have nothing that proves that I have all of the items I ordered, short of looking for evidence of them on the car itself. For instance, the car came with a tow prep package that I didn't necessarily want but what the heck is that and what should I look for to tell whether it's on the car? Guess I'll have to pour over the manual.
Other than that, I got the car that I wanted and I estimate that I paid perhaps $400 over invoice. That's probably not a bad price but clearly not record-setting low, given that we're late in the model year and in the midst of a recession. All in all, it was a reasonably good experience and I learned a lot, much of it from all the seasoned pros responding to my snide remarks about dealer sales techniques. Thanks for being patient, guys.
One last story. I had debated whether to await the redesign on the Honda Pilot before buying my Highlander, thinking that an 8-passenger SUV might come in handy on occasion. But then someone said the expected May release had been pushed out to September so I went ahead with my HL purchase. When I picked up the newspaper today, it was stuffed in a plastic bag with an ad announcing the new 2009 Pilot was now on sale. But I stifled my buyer's remorse and went ahead with my purchase. I think I'm gonna like it just fine.
I've heard you say this before and I have no reason to doubt you. If it's bad for the salesman, which I'm sure this is where you are coming from, then it must be pretty good for the buyers. I believe 'cotmc' said he bought in CA and he lives in AZ so prices must be right. I'm sure he didn't run over there to save $200. IIRC, he bought a used car so if nothing else there must be a good selection to chose from in CA. Either way it still sounds like a good place to buy.
With it being bad for salesmen and good for buyers and there are still plenty of dealerships there, that tells me it's good for the owners. Two out of three ain't bad. You can make a pretty good living with those odds as long as you're not the salesmen.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
My wife and I were shopping for a new car last night, intending to trade in her 3 year old Accord at the end of its lease. We clearly had positive equity based on the mileage, condition and residual value.
We went to a dealer (Ron Tonkin Honda in Portland, Oregon) and began to negotiate. Long story short, they were completely terrible with the negotiation and tried to trick us into paying way more than we needed to for the new car. They did appraise our trade, however, while we were out for a test drive.
When we walked out of the dealership and got back into our car, we immediately noticed the check engine light was on. It wasn't on when we pulled into the lot, and it had never been on before. The gas cap wasn't loose -- a common cause. Of course, the dealer denied doing anything to our car, saying "we didn't even drive it," but come on.....
Is this something that has happened to anyone in the past? Is there an easy way for someone to get the light to turn on?
Maybe this was a tactic to lower the trade value. Or, it could have been insurance against us walking out. Or, I suppose it could have been a huge coincidence.
Incidentally, we later found out that they had stolen the registration and insurance card from the glove box!
dsquared.....Ok... so here are some quick questions. First... I am sure your disapointment started when you realized you did not have any equity in your lease. This probably setup a negetive reaction to anything that was done form that point on. My question is... what on earth gave you the idea you would have equity in your Accord? You mention milage, condition, and residual. Two out of the three.. Condition and Residual are already pre-determined at lease conception. Meaning.. the bank detemines the residual based on good condition. Secondly.. only in rare cases.. less than 1%... is there a drastic enough difference in milage to actually break even, let alone have equity. Let me explain....
As your paying for your 36 month lease... you are paying down $50 - $100 less in principle compared to a purchase. Ask anyone who bought their car to go trade in their car 36 months into a 60 month loan and they are lucky to have any equity. And this person paid roughly $3,600 more, or reduced their principle by $3,600. You on the other hand.. saved money... knew you wanted out after 3 years... yet.. for some odd reason... think that not only did you save $3,600... but you have equity? Again... whatever your smoking.. let us know... we need some of those drugs!
Ok... so... now that you realize you went into the dealership with un-realistic expectations... why was it so bad he appraised your car while you were on the test drive? If you were there... he would have had you stay in his office, while he went to the used vehicle appraiser to have them look at your vehicle. If you think you have a right to be present.. that is fine.. but in the end.. you are asking them to buy your car from you... which... they can decide.. yes.. we want this car or.. NO.. we do not. It is their decision.
Ok.. so after he insulted you with a real market value for your car.. and you were annoyed with his appraisel process... you asked for a price for the new car which again.. you probably wanted to pay $250/month for a $25,000 car correct? haha...
Now the money question.. why would he intentially have the check engine light come on. Answer... to completely piss you off so he can watch with laughter as you come on Edmunds and complain. Seriously... there is in NO way he did anything to intentially have your check engine light come on. That is absurd! Could he have driven it and have it be co-incidence? Sure. Did you have it temporaliy disabled, go have it appraised hoping to get away with it.. only to have it re-appear? Just as likely. In the end.. it is your car, your responsibility and your problem. Not the dealer... not the salesperson... not anyone but you.
Lastly... stop thinking you have built equity in a lease. If you want equity... buy a car and keep it for a long time... this is elementary knowledge!
I'm pretty sure that a dealer (even a non-local one) would not have made this mistake. If carsdirect.com made such a simple mistake as this one, it makes me wonder what else they can get wrong. I will stick to local dealers.
The sticker's probably folded in the glove box. In the event you don't have it, a Toyota store should be able to print out a report showing what optional equipment it has.
We actually did have positive equity at lease end. The car's residual value was pretty low, about 11.4K. With 27K miles in "clean" condition, Edmunds lists the trade-in value at about 12.5K. We might have been able to get as much as 14K if we sold it privately.
Turns out that we "made" about $900 on it that was applied to the down payment on a new lease.
In reality, you're absolutely right -- leases rarely build equity. If you drive the full mileage allowance in a car that depreciates rapidly, there's no way that your going to have positive equity at the end of the lease.
As far as the check engine light -- who knows? You've got to admit that its a pretty big coincidence though! And, I had absolutely no problem with appraising my car when I wasn't there... I asked them to appraise it, and gave them the keys. I don't think its right that they fished through the glove box for the insurance and registration though!
Different varieties are adapted to different soils and have different disease resistance. If you plant the wrong one you risk crop failure.
Can you see going to the car dealer and having him tell you: "No I can't sell you a Accord, in this climate it would catch the rust fungus and the wheels would fall off."
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
As a consumer, I can understand your frustration because I have been there. You are correct. You do have equity in your car based on mileage. I only leased a car once, but I was told that I had equity in it when it came time to turn it in or buy it. If I had bought it, they said that the mileage and the condition warranted my having some equity which would lower the original projected purchase price.
As to the engine light being on, they may have done a quick diagnostic test while you were on your test drive. That happened to me once. They can adjust the computer system and turn the light off. In fact, something similar happened to my convertible last week. The fuel infusion light came on because I had not closed the gas cap securely. When I dropped by my service department, they offered to correct it or said that I could wait until the car had been started ten or eleven times. Surely enough, the light went off after I started the car the tenth time. Chryslers just do that. I found it really interesting. I am very fortunate to have found a dealer with an excellent service department. These guys really know their mechanics.
I do find it rude that they didn't ask you for the registration and insurance cards. They should not plunder through your glove box. But then I am a person who gets irritated if they change my CD or radio station. After all, the car belongs to me---or it did the last time that I looked at the payment book. :P
Don't worry if some of these posters are rude to you. One or two of them were raised in a barn. Good luck in your search for a new car and a better car dealer.
cccompson, thanks, the sticker WAS folded in the glove box. And all of the equipment was listed that I expected to see there. The MSRP was $38,435 which I think is what CarsDirect's website had computed it to be.
I must be spending too much time on Edmunds. You guys have changed me.
Yesterday I ordered a lawn tractor from Lowe's for my wife. As I knew I would be working a long day I paid $75 to get delivery. Quite a gouge for a 5 mile trip but it seemed worth it to avoid the hassle.
When I returned home my wife was in a bad mood (never a good thing). It seemed that when she tried to mow some grass the mower wouldn't function. I checked the mower and discovered that they had delivered it WITHOUT BLADES.
An angry call to the store went up the chain of command to the Operations manager. I was told that if "You come on down" they would give me the blades.
As I drove to the store I thought to myself, why should I be doing all this running around for free? I deserve some compensation. I also remembered what some of my sales friends here had said: "If you don't ask, you don't get".
Long story short, I marched into the manager's office and demanded that they refund the delivery charge since they had made me deliver part of the machine. Now, maybe it was the confidence that I acquired hanging around here or perhaps it was because I was wearing a ball cap from my son's Karate school, but he caved right in and refunded my delivery charge.
I now stand tall among consumers thanks to the training I have received from you people. I thank you all. :shades:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We went to another dealer and had a slightly better experience. We came in at 9:00PM and finally left at 1:30AM. Their computer went into "backup mode" at 12:30 and they couldn't print the paperwork. The finance guy that was there got the deal at about 11:15PM and was in no hurry to get started. Total pain.. they offered us the new car and to messenger the paperwork for us to sign, but we knew that wasn't a good idea. We decided to take our old car and come back the next morning to complete the deal. Should probably have started over somewhere else. The paperwork still wasn't ready when we got there and a security deposit somehow slipped into the deal overnight... an honest mistake, I'm sure.
Good luck to all those in the car market. My two cents of dealer advice... take it slow and check those numbers carefully! Oh.. and, don't wait until 9:00 at night to buy a car.
Pretty much anything that turns the check engine light on will be covered under the emissions warranty, so I'm guessing it was a coincidence. I have a hand help engine code scanner, and I can't get it to 'set' the light.
I would have demanded that they come down to you with a blade and install it themselves, you did pay for delivery of a lawn mower not a lawn noise maker.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You should feel great. Remember the $178 you lost on your new car? Now you are only $103 behind---$178-$75=$103. :P As tight as jmonroe is, he could give you some pointers on how to make up the remaining $103.
You should feel great. Remember the $178 you lost on your new car? Now you are only $103 behind---$178-$75=$103.
HUH, where did you learn your math? :confuse: ‘oldfarmer’ got back $75 alright but it was money he got BACK (Like in, I give you $75 dollars and then you give it BACK to me. I’m not ahead or behind, neither are you. We just spent time playing with the money) so he is no further ahead than when he started, RIGHT, he’s even. Get it.
Furthermore, don’t try to put two transactions together to prove your point. This almost reminds me of trading in a car for a car. Too much room to confuse yourself.
As tight as jmonroe is, he could give you some pointers on how to make up the remaining $103.
No I can’t but I just gave you a math lesson. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
No, you didn't give me a math lesson. The $178 that he gave to the car dealer wasn't given back to him, but the $75 WAS given back to him. Therefore, since he recovered something that he thought that he had lost, it puts him ahead. That is the only difference. You're just trying a psychological trick to make him feel worse.
If you can't think through just two transactions, then you have lost the ability to multitask. :surprise:
Therefore, since he recovered something that he thought that he had lost, it puts him ahead.
Thinking like that will usually put you behind NOT ahead.
You're just trying a psychological trick to make him feel worse.
Nothing psychological about it, ‘oldfarmer’ just screwed up by feeling sorry for a crying car salesman and he opened his wallet. My theory is; never give a sucker an even break.
If you can't think through just two transactions, then you have lost the ability to multitask.
I’m not a believer in multi-tasking. While you may have more than one thought on your mind you better do only one of them at one time. To do otherwise almost always results in screwing up both tasks. At best, more than one task being performed at one time will produce less than optimum results. We aren’t built that way but people keep trying.
Edit: I'm not going to pull an all-nighter trying to learn you something. Go to bed like I'm going to do. Sleep on it and by morning everthing will have fallen into place.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
This is where we differ. I do my best thinking in the very early morning hours between midnight and 3am. It started as a child. My parents allowed us to stay up late, so that we didn't wake them too early in the morning. The habit stuck.
In college, I could do an entire research paper with footnotes between midnight and 8am. As a teacher, I could go full speed after 5 hours of sleep. But then, I'm a Type A person.
In my profession, we were multi-tasking before the term became popular. When you have students at 5 learning centers, and the rest in groups of four, you had better be able to multi-task. You have to give individual attention while being aware of what 35 children are doing---all at the same time. It's a natural trait. We're just "built that way". BTW, it has nothing to do with cell phones. I hate shoppers who shop and talk on the phone at the same time. That's not multi-tasking. It's just fulfilling a need to express one's self constantly.
As to the math lesson, of course I understand your approach. You and snake are analytical types. The world needs you. :shades: The rest of us just want people to feel good. We have our own "analytical" way of reasoning that out.
Sleep tight. I'll still be in church by the time that you are. :P
In my profession, we were multi-tasking before the term became popular.
Teachers are no more multitasking than anyone else. The brain isn't designed for multitasking outside the autonomic nervous system or beyond the trivial simultaneous tasks of walking and chewing gum at the same time. Any task that requires serious brain power will be a solo and dedicated event.
However, some people are pretty good at switching tasks and some do it more rapidly and seamlessly than others. Analyzing Shakespeare while solving the traveling salesman problem isn't going to happen but you can bounce back and forth between them.
"Any task that requires serious brain power will be a solo and dedicated event."
Is that why we don't have trouble posting here? :P :shades:
Naturally, I agree. It's just that I can't allow you-know-who to have the upper hand---ever. If he finds out that we really think that he is smart, he'll be applying for the job of Host. The auto industry would never be the same.
Friends just told me they were paying Michigan sales tax on their lease from when they lived there. Then when they moved to Ohio, they had to pay sales tax to Ohio when they registered the car here even though their lease includes the sales tax to Michigan.
In some situations yes, that is the way it works. I've never done a MI or OH lease, but both states probably charge sales tax upfront instead of monthly.
In Michigan, you pay tax monthly on each payment...
In Ohio, you pay tax on the total of payments, upfront..
My guess is they had to pay tax to Ohio for just the remaining payments.. At least this way, they didn't lose any money.. If the situation were reversed, they would have paid all of their tax upfront to Ohio, then would have been taxed again on the monthly payment, when they moved to Michigan.. which would have been double taxation on part of the lease..
Lesson: If you live in a "pay upfront" state, don't move in the middle of your lease...
...which would have been double taxation on part of the lease..
It still seems like double taxation to me. If they have to pay the tax on the remaining payments to Ohio and they still have to pay the taxes that were worked into their payments from when they bought in Michigan, that's double to me. The only salvation might be if they moved to Ohio toward the end of the lease not somewhere near the middle.
Lesson: If you live in a "pay upfront" state, don't move in the middle of your lease...
If you don't mind me adding another lesson: DON'T LEASE, BUY.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Here's a thought. If they maintained their legal residence in the first state, at least until the lease was up, perhaps they wouldn't have to pay taxes in the second state.
Can you see going to the car dealer and having him tell you: "No I can't sell you a Accord, in this climate it would catch the rust fungus and the wheels would fall off."
of course Yes. If you lived in rough pothole territory, a dealer might warn you not to buy a Ferrari as your daily driver.
In Michigan, the tax isn't worked into the payment upfront... It's collected each month.. (same as PA, KY, and plenty others).
So. .if your payment is $318/mo. including 6% tax, when you move to Ohio, with 12 months left, you are paying Ohio tax on 12 payments X $300 (the pre-tax Michigan payment).. So, about the same amount of tax, either way...
If you start out in Ohio, you'd pay the whole 36 month tax bill upfront (or rolled into your payments).. Then, when you moved to Michigan, you'd get taxed on your monthly payment, no matter what it included.
So.... Upfront tax state, then monthly tax state = BAD..
Monthly tax state, then upfront tax state = OK (mostly)
The states that tax the entire selling price of the car upfront... Not just the depreciation or lease payments.. those are the worst.. (IL and TX, for example).
"I believe 'cotmc' said he bought in CA and he lives in AZ so prices must be right. I'm sure he didn't run over there to save $200. IIRC, he bought a used car so if nothing else there must be a good selection to chose from in CA. Either way it still sounds like a good place to buy."
Guilty! Last year I purchased a 3-yr old BMW X3 from a dealer in L.A. With used cars, an "apples-to-apples" comparison is more difficult, but I suspect I saved a couple grand, and that's before figuring the Doc Fee savings. We had this car delivered, and so the sales tax was paid when we registered the vehicle here.
Back in 2003, I purchased a new 2004 Lexus RX330 for my wife from a dealer just outside of L.A. This was a few months after the RX330 was first introduced. Local dealers were discounting it about $1000 from MSRP, but invoice was $3000 lower than that. A few Southern Cal dealerships were undercutting our AZ dealers by $1500-$2000. Before we purchased, I gave our local dealer a chance to sell for $500 -above- the California price, but he said he couldn't come close. Final price difference was roughly $1500, not including Doc Fees. So, we made a mini-vacation out of this purchase. We drove a one-way rental ($85 rental fee) to San Diego, and the Lexus sales rep picked us up from our hotel a couple days later. In this case, we paid sales tax to the dealer, but that was credited to us at the time we registered it locally.
Yes, there seems to be more competition in Southern California than here in AZ, especially for some higher-line vehicles. Another benefit to the consumer: dealers in CA have their Doc Fees capped at $55. The Phoenix/Scottsdale dealers can charge as much as $400. Our BMW dealer charges $388.
I don't go out of my way to buy from dealers in CA, but if I feel the locals aren't offering a competitive price (due to higher demand vs lower supply), I will always check things out on the West Coast before I purchase!
p.s. 5 star crash rating in the EURO NCAP crash tests.
Can you back that statement up? Or is it just a guess?
The smallest Toyota that has been tested by Euro NCAP is the Yaris (which achieved a 5 star rating for an adult occupant). The Toyota Aygo, which is smaller than Yaris and larger than iQ has not been tested. The virtually identical Citroen C1 achieved a 4 star rating for an adult occupant. The iQ has not been tested by Euro NCAP.
It's my fault, Mack. I was asking how the sales tax is handled in two states. What I'm curious about is if their lease payment stayed the same, which included a tax for Michigan after transferring car to Ohio and in Ohio they already paid the tax on that remaining portion of lease payments. I'm curious if they have a refund of tax from Michigan due them.
Thanks for the Fathers Day wish Mack and a belated Happy Fathers Day to everyone. A few days ago the wife and I stopped by the local VW Dealer in Tacoma, WA as I was told they had a 2009 Jetta Wagon. I was telling my wife about the car on the drive over and she started in on the old “I don’t want a wagon, I hate them, they look ugly, blah, blah, etc.”
We arrive at the dealer and a nice young man at his second day on the job greets us. I told him I was just here to look and not have any interest in buying until the diesels arrive and he should get back to the paying customers.
We take a quick look at the Jetta Sport Wagon and even Miss Anti Station Wagon was impressed. :surprise:
As I have stated before, we have been looking at the Taurus to replace an aging 93 Explorer, but both of us really like hatch back concept and will either go with a 2009 Escape or maybe the 2009 VW Sport Wagon TDI.
1. Car sales? 2. Tax questions on cars? 3. Lease vs. buy? 4. Answering poster’s question? 5. All of the above. ( Note, this ain’t an option unless you’ve gone to press with your book AND all of us get a free autographed first addition copy.)
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Posts with large images that distort the page unfortunately have to go.
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My expectation is that I should be charged the 7.75% based on my residence address but I've been told to make out a single check to the dealer in an amount which includes tax at a rate of 7.25%, the tax rate in the dealer's county. Because my sales relationship has been with CarsDirect (notwithstanding opinions to the contrary on this forum!), if the dealer asks me to pay the difference, I may tell them to collect it from CarsDirect rather than from me.
As far as registration, the payment to the dealer includes registration and license fees and I have not doubt that they'll have me complete all the necessary forms and will handle the registration. This was done for my two prior CarsDirect purchases, although those cars were picked up at the dealership.
You're in California, right?
If so, I'm not surprised. That market is so ruined that there are dealers willing to sell cars and almost lose money on them. It is as cutthroat as can be down there.
1) Perfect :shades:
2) Had to pay more money out of pocket
3) Did the vehicle have any damages (ie scratch) :surprise:
4) The vehicle never showed up :sick:
After reading the last couple days of posts I need closure to this issue.....
GP
ps, I agree with you that change in car selling ways must happen as folks are just fed up with the system as it is now.
Jealousy runs rampant here. I quit buying cars altogether because of all the BS from dealerships.
THE ONLY WAY TO WIN IS TO NOT PLAY AT ALL
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
OK, by way of update, I took delivery of my new Highlander. Two retired gentlemen arrived to deliver the car. They completed the paperwork, handed over the keys and manuals, took my check and departed. But the amount I was charged was NOT what CarsDirect had told me! It was less! OK, only by $23 but I'll take it. And those are the kind of surprises that you'd like to have when making a big purchase.
Two things bothered me but probably aren't a big deal. First, the car had 276 miles on it. Now 100 of that was driving it up from Antioch Toyota. But I had to wonder whether this had been a demo. I asked the delivery team and they told me that it was probably driven in from another dealer. In any case, the warranty was written to start at 286 miles. The second concern was that there was no sticker on the car, nor did they supply me with one. I have nothing that proves that I have all of the items I ordered, short of looking for evidence of them on the car itself. For instance, the car came with a tow prep package that I didn't necessarily want but what the heck is that and what should I look for to tell whether it's on the car? Guess I'll have to pour over the manual.
Other than that, I got the car that I wanted and I estimate that I paid perhaps $400 over invoice. That's probably not a bad price but clearly not record-setting low, given that we're late in the model year and in the midst of a recession. All in all, it was a reasonably good experience and I learned a lot, much of it from all the seasoned pros responding to my snide remarks about dealer sales techniques. Thanks for being patient, guys.
One last story. I had debated whether to await the redesign on the Honda Pilot before buying my Highlander, thinking that an 8-passenger SUV might come in handy on occasion. But then someone said the expected May release had been pushed out to September so I went ahead with my HL purchase. When I picked up the newspaper today, it was stuffed in a plastic bag with an ad announcing the new 2009 Pilot was now on sale. But I stifled my buyer's remorse and went ahead with my purchase. I think I'm gonna like it just fine.
I've heard you say this before and I have no reason to doubt you. If it's bad for the salesman, which I'm sure this is where you are coming from, then it must be pretty good for the buyers. I believe 'cotmc' said he bought in CA and he lives in AZ so prices must be right. I'm sure he didn't run over there to save $200. IIRC, he bought a used car so if nothing else there must be a good selection to chose from in CA. Either way it still sounds like a good place to buy.
With it being bad for salesmen and good for buyers and there are still plenty of dealerships there, that tells me it's good for the owners. Two out of three ain't bad. You can make a pretty good living with those odds as long as you're not the salesmen.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
We went to a dealer (Ron Tonkin Honda in Portland, Oregon) and began to negotiate. Long story short, they were completely terrible with the negotiation and tried to trick us into paying way more than we needed to for the new car. They did appraise our trade, however, while we were out for a test drive.
When we walked out of the dealership and got back into our car, we immediately noticed the check engine light was on. It wasn't on when we pulled into the lot, and it had never been on before. The gas cap wasn't loose -- a common cause. Of course, the dealer denied doing anything to our car, saying "we didn't even drive it," but come on.....
Is this something that has happened to anyone in the past? Is there an easy way for someone to get the light to turn on?
Maybe this was a tactic to lower the trade value. Or, it could have been insurance against us walking out. Or, I suppose it could have been a huge coincidence.
Incidentally, we later found out that they had stolen the registration and insurance card from the glove box!
As your paying for your 36 month lease... you are paying down $50 - $100 less in principle compared to a purchase. Ask anyone who bought their car to go trade in their car 36 months into a 60 month loan and they are lucky to have any equity. And this person paid roughly $3,600 more, or reduced their principle by $3,600. You on the other hand.. saved money... knew you wanted out after 3 years... yet.. for some odd reason... think that not only did you save $3,600... but you have equity? Again... whatever your smoking.. let us know... we need some of those drugs!
Ok... so... now that you realize you went into the dealership with un-realistic expectations... why was it so bad he appraised your car while you were on the test drive? If you were there... he would have had you stay in his office, while he went to the used vehicle appraiser to have them look at your vehicle. If you think you have a right to be present.. that is fine.. but in the end.. you are asking them to buy your car from you... which... they can decide.. yes.. we want this car or.. NO.. we do not. It is their decision.
Ok.. so after he insulted you with a real market value for your car.. and you were annoyed with his appraisel process... you asked for a price for the new car which again.. you probably wanted to pay $250/month for a $25,000 car correct? haha...
Now the money question.. why would he intentially have the check engine light come on. Answer... to completely piss you off so he can watch with laughter as you come on Edmunds and complain. Seriously... there is in NO way he did anything to intentially have your check engine light come on. That is absurd! Could he have driven it and have it be co-incidence? Sure. Did you have it temporaliy disabled, go have it appraised hoping to get away with it.. only to have it re-appear? Just as likely. In the end.. it is your car, your responsibility and your problem. Not the dealer... not the salesperson... not anyone but you.
Lastly... stop thinking you have built equity in a lease. If you want equity... buy a car and keep it for a long time... this is elementary knowledge!
Turns out that we "made" about $900 on it that was applied to the down payment on a new lease.
In reality, you're absolutely right -- leases rarely build equity. If you drive the full mileage allowance in a car that depreciates rapidly, there's no way that your going to have positive equity at the end of the lease.
As far as the check engine light -- who knows? You've got to admit that its a pretty big coincidence though! And, I had absolutely no problem with appraising my car when I wasn't there... I asked them to appraise it, and gave them the keys. I don't think its right that they fished through the glove box for the insurance and registration though!
Different varieties are adapted to different soils and have different disease resistance. If you plant the wrong one you risk crop failure.
Can you see going to the car dealer and having him tell you: "No I can't sell you a Accord, in this climate it would catch the rust fungus and the wheels would fall off."
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
As to the engine light being on, they may have done a quick diagnostic test while you were on your test drive. That happened to me once. They can adjust the computer system and turn the light off. In fact, something similar happened to my convertible last week. The fuel infusion light came on because I had not closed the gas cap securely. When I dropped by my service department, they offered to correct it or said that I could wait until the car had been started ten or eleven times. Surely enough, the light went off after I started the car the tenth time. Chryslers just do that. I found it really interesting. I am very fortunate to have found a dealer with an excellent service department. These guys really know their mechanics.
I do find it rude that they didn't ask you for the registration and insurance cards. They should not plunder through your glove box. But then I am a person who gets irritated if they change my CD or radio station. After all, the car belongs to me---or it did the last time that I looked at the payment book. :P
Don't worry if some of these posters are rude to you. One or two of them were raised in a barn.
Richard
Hey! :mad:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yesterday I ordered a lawn tractor from Lowe's for my wife. As I knew I would be working a long day I paid $75 to get delivery. Quite a gouge for a 5 mile trip but it seemed worth it to avoid the hassle.
When I returned home my wife was in a bad mood (never a good thing). It seemed that when she tried to mow some grass the mower wouldn't function. I checked the mower and discovered that they had delivered it WITHOUT BLADES.
An angry call to the store went up the chain of command to the Operations manager. I was told that if "You come on down" they would give me the blades.
As I drove to the store I thought to myself, why should I be doing all this running around for free? I deserve some compensation. I also remembered what some of my sales friends here had said: "If you don't ask, you don't get".
Long story short, I marched into the manager's office and demanded that they refund the delivery charge since they had made me deliver part of the machine. Now, maybe it was the confidence that I acquired hanging around here or perhaps it was because I was wearing a ball cap from my son's Karate school, but he caved right in and refunded my delivery charge.
I now stand tall among consumers thanks to the training I have received from you people. I thank you all. :shades:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We went to another dealer and had a slightly better experience. We came in at 9:00PM and finally left at 1:30AM. Their computer went into "backup mode" at 12:30 and they couldn't print the paperwork. The finance guy that was there got the deal at about 11:15PM and was in no hurry to get started. Total pain.. they offered us the new car and to messenger the paperwork for us to sign, but we knew that wasn't a good idea. We decided to take our old car and come back the next morning to complete the deal. Should probably have started over somewhere else. The paperwork still wasn't ready when we got there and a security deposit somehow slipped into the deal overnight... an honest mistake, I'm sure.
Good luck to all those in the car market. My two cents of dealer advice... take it slow and check those numbers carefully! Oh.. and, don't wait until 9:00 at night to buy a car.
drive your car. On a low mileage Honda there is little reason to.
Digging through someone glove box is something we would NEVER do!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Undo the gas cap and start the car, that will do it. IIRC most cars it will take a while to rest.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You are correct. It took four days from the day that I got gas for the fuel emissions light to come on. It took ten starts for the light to go out.
Richard
Oops! I forgot about my farmer friend. Let's say that one or two of them were raised in the jungle. :P
Richard
You should feel great. Remember the $178 you lost on your new car? Now you are only $103 behind---$178-$75=$103. :P As tight as jmonroe is, he could give you some pointers on how to make up the remaining $103.
Richard
HUH, where did you learn your math? :confuse: ‘oldfarmer’ got back $75 alright but it was money he got BACK (Like in, I give you $75 dollars and then you give it BACK to me. I’m not ahead or behind, neither are you. We just spent time playing with the money) so he is no further ahead than when he started, RIGHT, he’s even. Get it.
Furthermore, don’t try to put two transactions together to prove your point. This almost reminds me of trading in a car for a car. Too much room to confuse yourself.
As tight as jmonroe is, he could give you some pointers on how to make up the remaining $103.
No I can’t but I just gave you a math lesson. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
No, you didn't give me a math lesson. The $178 that he gave to the car dealer wasn't given back to him, but the $75 WAS given back to him. Therefore, since he recovered something that he thought that he had lost, it puts him ahead. That is the only difference. You're just trying a psychological trick to make him feel worse.
If you can't think through just two transactions, then you have lost the ability to multitask. :surprise:
Now who is confused? :P
Thinking like that will usually put you behind NOT ahead.
You're just trying a psychological trick to make him feel worse.
Nothing psychological about it, ‘oldfarmer’ just screwed up by feeling sorry for a crying car salesman and he opened his wallet. My theory is; never give a sucker an even break.
If you can't think through just two transactions, then you have lost the ability to multitask.
I’m not a believer in multi-tasking. While you may have more than one thought on your mind you better do only one of them at one time. To do otherwise almost always results in screwing up both tasks. At best, more than one task being performed at one time will produce less than optimum results. We aren’t built that way but people keep trying.
Edit: I'm not going to pull an all-nighter trying to learn you something. Go to bed like I'm going to do. Sleep on it and by morning everthing will have fallen into place.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
In college, I could do an entire research paper with footnotes between midnight and 8am. As a teacher, I could go full speed after 5 hours of sleep. But then, I'm a Type A person.
In my profession, we were multi-tasking before the term became popular. When you have students at 5 learning centers, and the rest in groups of four, you had better be able to multi-task. You have to give individual attention while being aware of what 35 children are doing---all at the same time. It's a natural trait. We're just "built that way". BTW, it has nothing to do with cell phones. I hate shoppers who shop and talk on the phone at the same time. That's not multi-tasking. It's just fulfilling a need to express one's self constantly.
As to the math lesson, of course I understand your approach. You and snake are analytical types. The world needs you. :shades: The rest of us just want people to feel good. We have our own "analytical" way of reasoning that out.
Sleep tight. I'll still be in church by the time that you are. :P
Richard
Teachers are no more multitasking than anyone else. The brain isn't designed for multitasking outside the autonomic nervous system or beyond the trivial simultaneous tasks of walking and chewing gum at the same time. Any task that requires serious brain power will be a solo and dedicated event.
However, some people are pretty good at switching tasks and some do it more rapidly and seamlessly than others. Analyzing Shakespeare while solving the traveling salesman problem isn't going to happen but you can bounce back and forth between them.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Is that why we don't have trouble posting here? :P :shades:
Naturally, I agree. It's just that I can't allow you-know-who to have the upper hand---ever. If he finds out that we really think that he is smart, he'll be applying for the job of Host. The auto industry would never be the same.
Richard
Is that how it's supposed to work?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In Ohio, you pay tax on the total of payments, upfront..
My guess is they had to pay tax to Ohio for just the remaining payments.. At least this way, they didn't lose any money.. If the situation were reversed, they would have paid all of their tax upfront to Ohio, then would have been taxed again on the monthly payment, when they moved to Michigan.. which would have been double taxation on part of the lease..
Lesson: If you live in a "pay upfront" state, don't move in the middle of your lease...
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It still seems like double taxation to me. If they have to pay the tax on the remaining payments to Ohio and they still have to pay the taxes that were worked into their payments from when they bought in Michigan, that's double to me. The only salvation might be if they moved to Ohio toward the end of the lease not somewhere near the middle.
Lesson: If you live in a "pay upfront" state, don't move in the middle of your lease...
If you don't mind me adding another lesson: DON'T LEASE, BUY.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Richard
of course Yes.
If you lived in rough pothole territory, a dealer might warn you not to buy a Ferrari as your daily driver.
So. .if your payment is $318/mo. including 6% tax, when you move to Ohio, with 12 months left, you are paying Ohio tax on 12 payments X $300 (the pre-tax Michigan payment).. So, about the same amount of tax, either way...
If you start out in Ohio, you'd pay the whole 36 month tax bill upfront (or rolled into your payments).. Then, when you moved to Michigan, you'd get taxed on your monthly payment, no matter what it included.
So.... Upfront tax state, then monthly tax state = BAD..
Monthly tax state, then upfront tax state = OK (mostly)
The states that tax the entire selling price of the car upfront... Not just the depreciation or lease payments.. those are the worst.. (IL and TX, for example).
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P.S happy father's day to all you fathers out there!
Especially in PA. Sales tax on a lease is 9% while on a buy it's 6%.
I didn't believe it either until my son leased his BMW- then I looked it up. :surprise:
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Guilty! Last year I purchased a 3-yr old BMW X3 from a dealer in L.A. With used cars, an "apples-to-apples" comparison is more difficult, but I suspect I saved a couple grand, and that's before figuring the Doc Fee savings. We had this car delivered, and so the sales tax was paid when we registered the vehicle here.
Back in 2003, I purchased a new 2004 Lexus RX330 for my wife from a dealer just outside of L.A. This was a few months after the RX330 was first introduced. Local dealers were discounting it about $1000 from MSRP, but invoice was $3000 lower than that. A few Southern Cal dealerships were undercutting our AZ dealers by $1500-$2000. Before we purchased, I gave our local dealer a chance to sell for $500 -above- the California price, but he said he couldn't come close. Final price difference was roughly $1500, not including Doc Fees. So, we made a mini-vacation out of this purchase. We drove a one-way rental ($85 rental fee) to San Diego, and the Lexus sales rep picked us up from our hotel a couple days later. In this case, we paid sales tax to the dealer, but that was credited to us at the time we registered it locally.
Yes, there seems to be more competition in Southern California than here in AZ, especially for some higher-line vehicles. Another benefit to the consumer: dealers in CA have their Doc Fees capped at $55. The Phoenix/Scottsdale dealers can charge as much as $400. Our BMW dealer charges $388.
I don't go out of my way to buy from dealers in CA, but if I feel the locals aren't offering a competitive price (due to higher demand vs lower supply), I will always check things out on the West Coast before I purchase!
Can you back that statement up? Or is it just a guess?
The smallest Toyota that has been tested by Euro NCAP is the Yaris (which achieved a 5 star rating for an adult occupant). The Toyota Aygo, which is smaller than Yaris and larger than iQ has not been tested. The virtually identical Citroen C1 achieved a 4 star rating for an adult occupant. The iQ has not been tested by Euro NCAP.
It's my fault, Mack. I was asking how the sales tax is handled in two states. What I'm curious about is if their lease payment stayed the same, which included a tax for Michigan after transferring car to Ohio and in Ohio they already paid the tax on that remaining portion of lease payments. I'm curious if they have a refund of tax from Michigan due them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A few days ago the wife and I stopped by the local VW Dealer in Tacoma, WA as I was told they had a 2009 Jetta Wagon. I was telling my wife about the car on the drive over and she started in on the old “I don’t want a wagon, I hate them, they look ugly, blah, blah, etc.”
We arrive at the dealer and a nice young man at his second day on the job greets us. I told him I was just here to look and not have any interest in buying until the diesels arrive and he should get back to the paying customers.
We take a quick look at the Jetta Sport Wagon and even Miss Anti Station Wagon was impressed. :surprise:
As I have stated before, we have been looking at the Taurus to replace an aging 93 Explorer, but both of us really like hatch back concept and will either go with a 2009 Escape or maybe the 2009 VW Sport Wagon TDI.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
1. Car sales?
2. Tax questions on cars?
3. Lease vs. buy?
4. Answering poster’s question?
5. All of the above. ( Note, this ain’t an option unless you’ve gone to press with your book
AND all of us get a free autographed first addition copy.)
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
-moo
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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