Its not so much he didn't want to it was probably just the load of crap he would have had to take when he told the desk that he can't sell what we got wasn't worth the mini to him. If you are as savy negotiator then he probably remembered you were a mini the last time and would be this time to.
"Bottom line, swaps are a lot of work that most consumers don't understand."
Well, those who hang out here do, which is why I was willing to spend quite a few hundred more for the TSX I got a few months ago -- it was a dealer swap from Denver to AZ. I knew I'd lost most of my negotiating leverage as soon as I learned that the manual transmission (without nav) in a specific color wasn't available anywhere I could find in the Western U.S. The dealer could, so we made the deal. If I can walk onto a lot and discuss a car that's sitting there, life is much better (for me at least).
Anyway, I quietly bent over, paid the man and drove off in exactly the car I wanted. The moron who delivered it to me was in a class by himself, but that's a whole 'nother story.
mackabee said, "Customers are a PITA plain and simple."
And that, my friend, is the kind of attitude that will ultimately drive car buyers to begin shifting their allegiance to car buying services such as CarsDirect. Customers ARE your business. And if you consider them a PITA, then kiss your business good-by. Yes, car trades are probably costly and problematic. And customers are often fickle and leave you holding the bag. But if you can't develop a business model that allows for the timely delivery of what the customer wants at a reasonable price, then you deserve extinction. Every business has its share of frustrations. Those companies that succeed keep customer satisfaction at the top of the list of priorities and get creative about how to optimize it at the lowest cost.
To update my car purchase story, my wife and I took a test drive today at the dealer that was recommended by Costco. Very nice guy, not pushy, very patient. I was ready to give him the deal if 1) he could get my car in a timely manner and 2) he could charge me less than $200 for his test drive (i.e., if he was willing to lower his price to no more than $200 over CarsDirect's price). Well, he told me that he'd put in a bid for a car and would know by next Monday whether he was successful. Then it would be after July 1 before he expected it would come in because it was at sea. So it sounds like he was talking about his dealership's order, not a swap from another dealer.
Rather than simply hang out waiting to see whether this dealer could deliver, I called CarsDirect and was told that they'd have the car I wanted in 2-3 days. And when I complained that the car he had promised lacked crossbars for the roof (a $150 item), he said he'd knock $250 off the price and I could buy after-market ones. I gave him the go-ahead and if he can deliver, I'll call the local dealer and tell him he just wasn't quick enough and didn't have a sharp enough pencil.
If CarsDirect can deliver what I want, when I want it and at the price I want, I can't imagine why anyone would mess with dealerships. Talk about a PITA! Dealerships will survive for awhile because customers still haven't wised up to the alternatives. But when they do, look for a major shift in the car-selling process.
If you are as savy negotiator then he probably remembered you were a mini the last time and would be this time to.
DT's are a PITA and less profitable.
I’d like to think that I’m a savvy negotiator but who amongst us that aren’t in the biz really knows what the true cost of a car is? All I can say is, if you can’t sell at my price I’ll go elsewhere and see if my price works. When I bought in 05’ and 06’, with the knowledge gained through the Internet, the process was pretty simple. I’m sure I left some money on the table, who doesn’t, but when you get your price, how can you complain?
The thing that irked me with the guy that chased me away in 06’ was his arrogance. I would have upped my price (probably up to $150) rather than going to the other side of town if he had laid his cards on the table and explained his additional expense. But he didn’t do that, he didn’t WANT to get the car and that killed the deal as far as I was concerned.
It’s very coincidental that we’re talking about this because last Friday I got a letter in the mail from the dealer I bought from in 06’. It said the salesman I bought from was no longer there. I think he retired because while we were chit chatting, I mentioned that I was semi-retired and he said if things worked out for him he hoped to retire in a couple years. Well we’re at that couple year point now. Anyway, I was turned over to another guy who would take care of me should I need any help.
Since I don’t have any allegiance to this new guy maybe I’ll give the guy that lost the sale in 06’ another shot when I'm ready to buy again. If nothing else, he now knows how I operate.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mack should have said..."SOME customers are a PITA"
And they can be. They can be downright miserable to deal with and they can pull every low down trick known to man.
I have spent my entire life in retail and retail management including high level management and I can tell you that there is a percentage of customers (a very small one) that you simply don't want.
Sorry, you will still need your brick and mortar stores, at least for the time being.
isellhondas restates what's been said before, "CarsDirect doesn't sell cars, Car dealers do." But regardless of the technicality of truth in that statement, CarsDirect IS selling this car to me. They're responsible for establishing the customer interface that allowed me to specify my needs, for securing the product when I needed it, for arranging delivery of said product to me and for negotiating the price. As with the sale of most other products, there are many other organizations involved, e.g., Toyota, Toyota's ad firm, etc. But when I tell people whom I bought this car from, it's not going to include any mention of the dealership that merely drove to my house, delivered the car, completed the docs and took my cash.
And the role of the dealer sales rep who took me for a test-drive? Let's call him a product demo technician. He did far less in selling me on the virtues of this car than the article in Consumer Reports magazine and what I read here on Edmunds.
It's been very clear that the dealer personnel I dealt with were focused on meeting the needs of their dealership. From the outset, CarsDirect was focused on meeting MY needs. A customer can't ask for better than that.
I called CarsDirect and was told that they'd have the car I wanted in 2-3 days. And when I complained that the car he had promised lacked crossbars for the roof (a $150 item), he said he'd knock $250 off the price and I could buy after-market ones. I gave him the go-ahead and if he can deliver, I'll call the local dealer and tell him he just wasn't quick enough and didn't have a sharp enough pencil.
I really hope you get what you are looking for....
The car didn't have cross bars so he took another $250 off. Than he said you could buy after market ones... :confuse: With a statement like that I don't believe you are getting the exact car you want. Why would you buy after market cross bars when you can just go to parts dept and get the real things? I am starting to wonder if the vehicle will side rails to put the cross bars on???
If it doesn't have the side rails I can assure you that you probably won't like the after market ones. Just speaking from experience from watching other people save money... :surprise:
So basically, unless I missed something. some guy at cars direct said " yeah I'll get you the car 2-3 days" And this is a person you never met before.... and you believed him. Wouldn't be the first time a salesman told a customer what he wanted to hear
Another thing. Ahh never mind
I am curious to know which vehicle you are trying to buy. If you have already mentioned please list it again.
Also please let us know how you make out. I am with Mack on this that carsdirect.com doesn't sell cars.
Does that mean they are a licensed dealer in each state? Manufacturers have strict CSI surveys for dealers that sell cars. How do they get rated? Do they handle financing?
Even Fleet sales are a PITA.... I just did my first one.... what nightmare... All for a courtesy... Not worth it with all the paperwork.
Does carsdirect.com have a travelling service department? Ok, Ok I am being funny now.
From what I know all carsdirect is.... Is a place to get "leads" and sell them to dealers...
Think about it... Manufacturers need people to work with the customers and take care of them and their issues. I don't believe a website can do all that.
Rant over
Please let us know how you make out... I would be curious if they sell your lead to the dealer that you visited, and than that dealer contacts you again.
greanpea68, I may yet be disappointed by the CarsDirect experience but I'll report back after all is said and done.
It's very disappointing to continue to hear from car selling biz people that CarsDirect isn't selling cars. You guys just don't get it, do you? From the CUSTOMER perspective (yeah, you remember that guy, don't you?), the guy who establishes the relationship which results in a sale is the guy doing the selling. It's as simple as that. It has nothing whatsoever to do with who's licensed to sell, who's maintaining inventories, who's recognized by the manufacturer as a sale person, etc. And nobody should be surprised that this is so poorly understood by a profession that has a legendary reputation for aggravating, frustrating, demeaning, humiliating and debasing customer experiences (yes, take a bow here, folks).
If you were focused on the customer, it would be easy to see who was selling the car to me...but you're not. I'm just hopeful that CarsDirect can, yet again, minimize the time I have to spend in your presence. Look, I'm willing to acknowledge that some of you are actually honest and are trying to do right by your customers. But clearly you're in a minority. And the existing system for car sales has done more to create this negative environment than any conspiracy of sales people. But the fact remains that you create an experience that people dread and CarsDirect is demonstrating that it doesn't have to be that way.
"When I bought in 05’ and 06’, with the knowledge gained through the Internet, the process was pretty simple."
You guys make it seem like the internet is the holy grail of car buying. Everything that you get on the internet was available before the internet. It was called a library with lots of funny looking rectangular shaped items known as books. Some of you that are older than me might remember those.
Edmund's has been around for decades, I don't think they print the books any longer as I haven't seen them at my local book shop, but they listed invoice, msrp, target price, options, colors, even model numbers. Ooops, here's one:
Looks like a re-hash of what's on the website for those technically challenged.
Like I said plenty of times, car buying is not rocket science.
mackabee asked, "montalvo, are you a shill for carsdirect?"
Fair question. Absolutely not! But if this sale goes as I hope, I'll sure be talking them up. In my original post, I acknowledged that my second CarsDirect experience was less than perfect. And if this one goes south, I'll be the first to rant about how I was mislead...yet again.
But regardless how it comes out, dealership personnel need to accept that they make car-buying a lousy experience. There have been plenty of major pushes to try to get this system to clean up its act. Saturn with their sales model was one approach...but you had to buy a Saturn...yuk! There may be other, better buying services that CarsDirect. If Costco had come in with a better deal, you'd hear me extolling their virtues (I love that place for just about everything else).
No, I'm no shill. But you may only believe me if I report back on Saturday that the whole purchase blew up in my face! In any case, I will let you know how it turned out.
BTW, when the CarsDirect guy called this evening, he quoted me a price with doc fees, tax, license, etc. There were no surprises and he said, "This might not be the final price but I can guarantee that it won't be any higher than that." If it is...yeah, I'll be p*ssed! AND embarrassed when I report back here!
"If you were focused on the customer, it would be easy to see who was selling the car to me...but you're not. I'm just hopeful that CarsDirect can, yet again, minimize the time I have to spend in your presence. "
It's your condescending attitude towards sales people that shows through your posts that's disconcerting. I made the PITA comment in jest to stir the pot a bit as this thread was getting repetitive and boring. I really do care about my customers. I rarely take an up as most of my sales are from repeat customers and referrals. I establish a relationship of trust and I'm also a straight shooter. There is "no BS in me" as one customer told me. Mack :shades:
You know jm is paranoid. He thinks everyone is out to get him.
I’m not nearly as bad as I was when I was younger even though I knew there were plenty of people out to get me back then but I learned to live with it. Give it time, not ALL customers are a PITA, you’ll see.
I’m glad ‘cotmc’ didn’t speak for me because most people don’t know what I’m thinking (go a head, I opened that door for you). Your post could have been taken two different ways (about the 08’ Corolla being upped to an 09’). And I took it the way I posted it, that is, you bait and switched the lady. That’s my take on it and I’m sticking to it.
FWIW, if you ever decide to write that book you’ve threatened us with; you better get a ghost writer to clean up your ambiguous writing. You might want to give Richard a crack at this before the publisher dumps you. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Costco and CarsDirect don’t do anything special. Most stores these days have an internet department (aka Call Center and the Give Away Department). These departments handle all requests from manufactures websites, dealer websites, Costco and CarsDirect or any other lead generator service (aka buying service) you can think of. These departments usually have inexperienced salespeople that work on salary and reply to every request with a predetermined low quote regardless of the source of the request.
Based on my experience with direct request and buying services, the buying services quotes are a few hundred higher than direct quotes. That the few hundred dollars that the dealer (err you) pay to the buying service.
If you go to dealer’s web site and request an itemized Out the Door quote, more than likely you will end up with a lower price and same expirence as you get from CarsDirect.
Once again, it may not have been a matter of WANT. It's entirely possible that car wasn't available to him and he knew it.
isell, that could well have been the case. The dealer I bought from was a direct competitor to the dealer I went to first. In fact, the salesman at the second dealership told me they would do almost anything they could to take a deal away from the dealer that was just a few miles from where I lived. Knowing that, maybe there is this ongoing animosity they have for each other and these two guys just won’t trade with each other.
However, you had to be there to see/hear/feel the arrogance of the guy that I went to first in 06’. What makes this tale almost unbelievable is the fact that he was my salesman in 05’. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You are 100% right. I don't want to waste my time going from dealer to dealer and play games for hours, when I could submit request throw CarsDirect and get the car. In some cases car will be delivered by dealer who called my e-mail offer ridiculous, and now he is selling same car for the price much more low than my initial "ridiculous" price.
You guys make it seem like the internet is the holy grail of car buying. Everything that you get on the internet was available before the internet. It was called a library with lots of funny looking rectangular shaped items known as books. Some of you that are older than me might remember those.
I was around before the Internet and I, like most car buyers at the time, had my hands full with the car buying process, like you didn’t know this. Like I’ve said before, numerous times, people don’t feel on guard when they go refrigerator shopping. I’ve also said, I think the car biz has come a long way from their days of the past. I have to give you guys credit for being able to deal with the legacy that you’ve inherited; I know I couldn’t do it.
Edmund's has been around for decades, I don't think they print the books any longer
As for that library thing, I wouldn’t waste my time going to the library to get a book/magazine then writing or printing the info (hell, I don’t think the library in my burgh even had a copier back then). To get my info stuff I went to the magazine stand, bought an Edmunds magazine, took it home, studied it, then went out to beat up on some poor car salesman. That old Edmunds magazine was pretty good; it kept my head above water several times.
Like I said plenty of times, car buying is not rocket science.
Don’t take all the credit for saying this. I’ve said something about the car buying process being simple too, you know.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mack, I don't think you've chosen the right word to describe my attitude toward sales people. Condescending? No. But distrustful...absolutely. And they've earned my distrust and that of millions of other car buyers with a long and sordid history of outright lies, misleading information and exploitive sales tactics.
But feeling the way I do, I guess I was off-base in believing what you said when you called customers a PITA. I should've known it wasn't true, coming from a car salesman.
I miss the good old days before the internet. Back then Edmunds and Consumer Reports published invoices in a book, and there were several buying services that would give you these numbers. However, most people didn’t know about these sources and I was one of the few who were getting invoice deals. Back then I was getting a good price on the new car and a fair deal on my trade-in (Black Book or above). Now everyone gets an invoice deal or below, so dealers are trying to make up lost profit by giving lower than wholesale trade-in allowances.
Now that everyone has the information I used to have, my deals are nothing special.
And they've earned my distrust and that of millions of other car buyers with a long and sordid history of outright lies, misleading information and exploitive sales tactics.
Someone needs a hug.
Seriously though, there's truth on both sides. Do whatever works best for you. If going through a middle man makes you happy, then so be it. If you like to go into the dealership and pick out a vehicle with a salesman, so be it. Whatever makes you comfortable, I'm happy with.
On the other side of the coin, as is well documented on this forum, some customers are a royal pain. I think this is the 5% rule. 5% are horrible, 5% are fantastic, and the other 90% are normal. That 10% always seems to stand out a little bit more.
Just to throw my opinion in about Carsdirect. These guys have to go through a dealership to get the vehicle. That means that you may be paying more than you need to. They don't stock the vehicles and have an inventory. You're basically doing what I could do for you. Or, you could do for yourself. That's why the salesguys are looking down at Carsdirect.
However, many people will pay extra for the luxury of not having to do all the legwork. Nothing wrong with that. I've paid for room service on a number of occasions. :P
"FWIW, if you ever decide to write that book you’ve threatened us with; you better get a ghost writer to clean up your ambiguous writing. You might want to give Richard a crack at this before the publisher dumps you."
The book is in its early stages right now. I'm trying to figure out the order of the stories. I don't want to put the best one first as that would be anti-climatic.
"But feeling the way I do, I guess I was off-base in believing what you said when you called customers a PITA. I should've known it wasn't true, coming from a car salesman."
moo, you're absolutely right. I'd love to have been able to walk into a car dealership and say, give me your best price on a new Highlander Limited with AWD...and believed that I wasn't going to get taken to the cleaners. But the 90/10 rule that you mention about good vs. PITA customers probably works in reverse with sales people. My guess is that 90% of dealer sales personnel will try every conceivable tactic to extort the most money they can out of the customer. Maybe 10% would actually give you their best price on your first request...but I really doubt it's even that high, don't you?
If you read my initial post, I got three quotes ON THE EXACT SAME CAR through buying services. How can anyone justify $1-2K differences? And I have to believe that Costco feels they're providing their members with a service. People use them because they so thoroughly distrust dealers. Yet even with their service, I clearly wasn't getting the "best price".
As I've said before, the whole process sucks. I can't blame sales personnel. When you see 90% of people in a job acting the same way, it's gotta be because the circumstances make it sensible to act that way. And I know that running everything through CarsDirect or a similar buying service isn't the answer either because no one's gonna be able to take a test drive if the dealers close up shop. I'm just saying that we really need a different model.
A previous (customer) poster stated that he misses having the advantage of being one of the few knowledgeable buyers because in the old, pre-internet days, he could exploit that knowledge without competition from other informed buyers. But I'd like to envision an environment where all customers, irrespective of their level of knowledge, were able to get the same deal.
The thing that irked me with the guy that chased me away in 06’ was his arrogance. I would have upped my price (probably up to $150) rather than going to the other side of town if he had laid his cards on the table and explained his additional expense. But he didn’t do that, he didn’t WANT to get the car and that killed the deal as far as I was concerned.
That's what helped kill my interest in a GTI(well, that and the fact that the Louisville VW dealers have absolutely pathetic service departments). The sales guy basically told me that they don't special order cars. As for the Louisville Mazda dealer I visited(Oxmoor), their attitude was, "So you want a Mazdaspeed3? Well, sign a buyers order, put down a deposit, and we'll let you test drive one. Oh yeah, we don't do dealer trades, so you'll, just have to wait until we get one in the color you want. And when we DO get it it will have a big ADM sticker on the side window." The dealer I eventually bought from(Kings in Cincinnati) did all the right things; the salesperson followed up on my internet request, encouraged me to take a test drive, and found the MS3 I wanted and had it flat bedded in at no charge. It also didn't hurt that the guy was also a SCCA racer and currently owns several Triumph bikes.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The dealer called and now tells me they have to re register with the Calif DMV using current OD reading. This will look like I purchased a new car that had 1900+ miles on it. I was told I am being "unreasonable" when I expressed my concern about resale on a "DEMO" car. Thanks
give me your best price on a new Highlander Limited with AWD
The new Highlander isn't lighting the world on fire and there is a $750 rebate on the table. I can't imagine you not being able to buy this vehicle for $400 - $500 under invoice quite easily.
OK, all you ethical sales guys...here's your chance. Anyone from a Toyota dealership? Tell me what I should be paying for this car:
Highlander Limited AWD Options: Radio: AM/FM/6 CD Changer/9 JBL Speakers Heated Seats Rear Automatic Air Conditioner Power Back Door Rear Spoiler w/High Mount Stop Lamp Power Tilt and Slide Sunroof Towing Prep Package Carpet Floor/Cargo Mat Set/3rd Row Mat
Moo, You wrote a well balanced piece in fairness to carsalesmen and consumers. As customers, we cannot escape one thing: We are all responsible for shaping and controlling our own destinies---whether it be related to careers, houses, cars, etc. The best possible way to do this is to remember that knowledge is power. Edmunds is built on this premise. Thank you for your objectivity.
When I bought my MT TSX, I couldn't find any online, so I just picked up the phone and starting calling Acura dealers in cities I could get to cheaply. Flew to Colorado Springs and had the dealership pick me up at the airport in the courtesy van. BTW, Colorado had a lot of MT TSXs on the lots, I had about 30 to choose from in Denver/CO Springs. I only found 5 in Dallas, and although I had two dealers here that were willing to DT, I have been burned on a DT deal in the past.
I know isell doens't understand why customers get stuck on colors, but I find most of the Honda colors downright ugly and I don't do black. For cars that generally have only 2 or 3 trim levels, it's incredibly hard to find the car I want :mad:
I forgot to add that part about the salespeople in my original post. That's where I was going with that 5% rule. It applies to everyone.
The "one-price" model has been experimented with and simply doesn't seem to work. People like to feel like they are getting a good deal. Big ticket items need to be negotiated on. Why? So that they can be sold. If home prices were only one price, then there would be even more inventory just sitting around waiting on someone to purchase. Flexibility on both sides = more sales. The system is in place and there is no real reason to think it will change anytime soon.
So, we get what we got here. Carsdirect and their ilk and internet requests.
I'll give you a little insight into the "best price" quandary. From the customer's perspective, the "best price" is the lowest possible price that a dealer is willing to sell a vehicle for. From a dealership's perspective, the "best price" is the price that both parties are willing to do. See the problem?
In the first scenario, the dealership ends up being an information service. In the second, you end up buying a car and the dealership sells one. Because of the enormous amount of competition in car sales, we need to have the consumer interacting with us. That's the way to make a sale. So, when you ask for the "best price", there's no real decent answer to that question. (This is coming from a salesman who has run internet departments at Nissan, Honda and Porsche.)
At any rate, the system is not changing at all in the near future. As you mentioned, you still need to come to the dealership to test drive. Why not test drive a salesman as well? Find someone you like and who treats you the way you would like to be treated.
"I'd love to have been able to walk into a car dealership and say, give me your best price on a new Highlander Limited with AWD...and believed that I wasn't going to get taken to the cleaners.
Here is the problem with this statement: IMHO, the fact is when a customer says to give him my best deal, and I do exactly what he asks, they always say it's not good enough. It really doesn't matter. I could give a great deal on the first pencil and the customer wants more. It's really a no win situation doing that way. Very rarely have I had someone say, "wow, where do I sign?" I agree with another poster that said you're acting a little high and mighty (or something to that end, condescending maybe?) like you are better than most sales people. Here's a thought: Do your research, make an out the door offer to a few different dealers and go with the one that meets your request or is the closest to it. There are a lot of times customers make the buying process much more difficult, and much more dramatic, than it has to be. BTW, "extort" is a pretty strong word to use. My personal view is whether I make $1500 or $100 off a deal, if my customer is happy, I am. I go into every deal not thinking at first "how much money can I make off this guy." The first thing is finding something he would consider buying. At that point, yes (Gasp!) I maximize the profit the dealership and I can make. As I said, sometimes that's $100, sometimes a lot more. Should I be ashamed of that? On a personal note, I enjoying reading this thread more than any other. Long time lurker, rare poster.
Comments
I'll answer your question with a answer...
If you were in our shoes, would you rather have a deal in 2-3 days? Or 2-3 months?
Remember this is a right now business. We don't get paid on cars 3 months from now.
Unless it is a GT-R... than we can wait. :shades:
GP
I thought you said it only had like 50 miles and the papaerwork said 1900 miles :confuse:
GP
DT's are a PITA and less profitable.
Mack :shades:
60 city 51 hwy mpg, estimated. More details as I get them.
Mack :shades:
p.s. 5 star crash rating in the EURO NCAP crash tests.
Well, those who hang out here do, which is why I was willing to spend quite a few hundred more for the TSX I got a few months ago -- it was a dealer swap from Denver to AZ. I knew I'd lost most of my negotiating leverage as soon as I learned that the manual transmission (without nav) in a specific color wasn't available anywhere I could find in the Western U.S. The dealer could, so we made the deal. If I can walk onto a lot and discuss a car that's sitting there, life is much better (for me at least).
Anyway, I quietly bent over, paid the man and drove off in exactly the car I wanted. The moron who delivered it to me was in a class by himself, but that's a whole 'nother story.
And that, my friend, is the kind of attitude that will ultimately drive car buyers to begin shifting their allegiance to car buying services such as CarsDirect. Customers ARE your business. And if you consider them a PITA, then kiss your business good-by. Yes, car trades are probably costly and problematic. And customers are often fickle and leave you holding the bag. But if you can't develop a business model that allows for the timely delivery of what the customer wants at a reasonable price, then you deserve extinction. Every business has its share of frustrations. Those companies that succeed keep customer satisfaction at the top of the list of priorities and get creative about how to optimize it at the lowest cost.
To update my car purchase story, my wife and I took a test drive today at the dealer that was recommended by Costco. Very nice guy, not pushy, very patient. I was ready to give him the deal if 1) he could get my car in a timely manner and 2) he could charge me less than $200 for his test drive (i.e., if he was willing to lower his price to no more than $200 over CarsDirect's price). Well, he told me that he'd put in a bid for a car and would know by next Monday whether he was successful. Then it would be after July 1 before he expected it would come in because it was at sea. So it sounds like he was talking about his dealership's order, not a swap from another dealer.
Rather than simply hang out waiting to see whether this dealer could deliver, I called CarsDirect and was told that they'd have the car I wanted in 2-3 days. And when I complained that the car he had promised lacked crossbars for the roof (a $150 item), he said he'd knock $250 off the price and I could buy after-market ones. I gave him the go-ahead and if he can deliver, I'll call the local dealer and tell him he just wasn't quick enough and didn't have a sharp enough pencil.
If CarsDirect can deliver what I want, when I want it and at the price I want, I can't imagine why anyone would mess with dealerships. Talk about a PITA! Dealerships will survive for awhile because customers still haven't wised up to the alternatives. But when they do, look for a major shift in the car-selling process.
1.) Is it coming to the USA?
2.) Diesel or petrol?
3.) 5/6-speed manual, automated manual or automatic?
4.) Are those EPA numbers or manufacturer estimated numbers?
OTOH, some people such as myself just scroll right past them now since we've discovered that the "to be continued" stories never reach "the end".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
DT's are a PITA and less profitable.
I’d like to think that I’m a savvy negotiator but who amongst us that aren’t in the biz really knows what the true cost of a car is? All I can say is, if you can’t sell at my price I’ll go elsewhere and see if my price works. When I bought in 05’ and 06’, with the knowledge gained through the Internet, the process was pretty simple. I’m sure I left some money on the table, who doesn’t, but when you get your price, how can you complain?
The thing that irked me with the guy that chased me away in 06’ was his arrogance. I would have upped my price (probably up to $150) rather than going to the other side of town if he had laid his cards on the table and explained his additional expense. But he didn’t do that, he didn’t WANT to get the car and that killed the deal as far as I was concerned.
It’s very coincidental that we’re talking about this because last Friday I got a letter in the mail from the dealer I bought from in 06’. It said the salesman I bought from was no longer there. I think he retired because while we were chit chatting, I mentioned that I was semi-retired and he said if things worked out for him he hoped to retire in a couple years. Well we’re at that couple year point now. Anyway, I was turned over to another guy who would take care of me should I need any help.
Since I don’t have any allegiance to this new guy maybe I’ll give the guy that lost the sale in 06’ another shot when I'm ready to buy again. If nothing else, he now knows how I operate.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mack should have said..."SOME customers are a PITA"
And they can be. They can be downright miserable to deal with and they can pull every low down trick known to man.
I have spent my entire life in retail and retail management including high level management and I can tell you that there is a percentage of customers (a very small one) that you simply don't want.
Sorry, you will still need your brick and mortar stores, at least for the time being.
Mack :shades:
And the role of the dealer sales rep who took me for a test-drive? Let's call him a product demo technician. He did far less in selling me on the virtues of this car than the article in Consumer Reports magazine and what I read here on Edmunds.
It's been very clear that the dealer personnel I dealt with were focused on meeting the needs of their dealership. From the outset, CarsDirect was focused on meeting MY needs. A customer can't ask for better than that.
I really hope you get what you are looking for....
The car didn't have cross bars so he took another $250 off. Than he said you could buy after market ones... :confuse: With a statement like that I don't believe you are getting the exact car you want. Why would you buy after market cross bars when you can just go to parts dept and get the real things? I am starting to wonder if the vehicle will side rails to put the cross bars on???
If it doesn't have the side rails I can assure you that you probably won't like the after market ones. Just speaking from experience from watching other people save money... :surprise:
So basically, unless I missed something. some guy at cars direct said " yeah I'll get you the car 2-3 days" And this is a person you never met before.... and you believed him. Wouldn't be the first time a salesman told a customer what he wanted to hear
Another thing. Ahh never mind
I am curious to know which vehicle you are trying to buy. If you have already mentioned please list it again.
Also please let us know how you make out. I am with Mack on this that carsdirect.com doesn't sell cars.
Does that mean they are a licensed dealer in each state? Manufacturers have strict CSI surveys for dealers that sell cars. How do they get rated? Do they handle financing?
Even Fleet sales are a PITA.... I just did my first one.... what nightmare... All for a courtesy... Not worth it with all the paperwork.
Does carsdirect.com have a travelling service department? Ok, Ok I am being funny now.
From what I know all carsdirect is.... Is a place to get "leads" and sell them to dealers...
Think about it... Manufacturers need people to work with the customers and take care of them and their issues. I don't believe a website can do all that.
Rant over
Please let us know how you make out... I would be curious if they sell your lead to the dealer that you visited, and than that dealer contacts you again.
GP
It than said someone from My dealer would contact me...(insert Macks little pac-man rolling around laughing)
That's what I thought it was. Great so now I will have my call center calling me. I think I will make a ghost appointment...LOL
Good luck buddy...
I hate to say it but these call centers ussualy have people that have no idea what they are talking about.
GP
It's very disappointing to continue to hear from car selling biz people that CarsDirect isn't selling cars. You guys just don't get it, do you? From the CUSTOMER perspective (yeah, you remember that guy, don't you?), the guy who establishes the relationship which results in a sale is the guy doing the selling. It's as simple as that. It has nothing whatsoever to do with who's licensed to sell, who's maintaining inventories, who's recognized by the manufacturer as a sale person, etc. And nobody should be surprised that this is so poorly understood by a profession that has a legendary reputation for aggravating, frustrating, demeaning, humiliating and debasing customer experiences (yes, take a bow here, folks).
If you were focused on the customer, it would be easy to see who was selling the car to me...but you're not. I'm just hopeful that CarsDirect can, yet again, minimize the time I have to spend in your presence. Look, I'm willing to acknowledge that some of you are actually honest and are trying to do right by your customers. But clearly you're in a minority. And the existing system for car sales has done more to create this negative environment than any conspiracy of sales people. But the fact remains that you create an experience that people dread and CarsDirect is demonstrating that it doesn't have to be that way.
You guys make it seem like the internet is the holy grail of car buying. Everything that you get on the internet was available before the internet. It was called a library with lots of funny looking rectangular shaped items known as books. Some of you that are older than me might remember those.
Edmund's has been around for decades, I don't think they print the books any longer as I haven't seen them at my local book shop, but they listed invoice, msrp, target price, options, colors, even model numbers.
Ooops, here's one:
Looks like a re-hash of what's on the website for those technically challenged.
Like I said plenty of times, car buying is not rocket science.
Time for beddy by. Good night.
:shades:
:shades:
BINGO!Fair question. Absolutely not! But if this sale goes as I hope, I'll sure be talking them up. In my original post, I acknowledged that my second CarsDirect experience was less than perfect. And if this one goes south, I'll be the first to rant about how I was mislead...yet again.
But regardless how it comes out, dealership personnel need to accept that they make car-buying a lousy experience. There have been plenty of major pushes to try to get this system to clean up its act. Saturn with their sales model was one approach...but you had to buy a Saturn...yuk! There may be other, better buying services that CarsDirect. If Costco had come in with a better deal, you'd hear me extolling their virtues (I love that place for just about everything else).
No, I'm no shill. But you may only believe me if I report back on Saturday that the whole purchase blew up in my face! In any case, I will let you know how it turned out.
BTW, when the CarsDirect guy called this evening, he quoted me a price with doc fees, tax, license, etc. There were no surprises and he said, "This might not be the final price but I can guarantee that it won't be any higher than that." If it is...yeah, I'll be p*ssed! AND embarrassed when I report back here!
It's your condescending attitude towards sales people that shows through your posts that's disconcerting. I made the PITA comment in jest to stir the pot a bit as this thread was getting repetitive and boring. I really do care about my customers. I rarely take an up as most of my sales are from repeat customers and referrals. I establish a relationship of trust and I'm also a straight shooter. There is "no BS in me" as one customer told me.
Mack
:shades:
I’m not nearly as bad as I was when I was younger even though I knew there were plenty of people out to get me back then but I learned to live with it. Give it time, not ALL customers are a PITA, you’ll see.
I’m glad ‘cotmc’ didn’t speak for me because most people don’t know what I’m thinking (go a head, I opened that door for you). Your post could have been taken two different ways (about the 08’ Corolla being upped to an 09’). And I took it the way I posted it, that is, you bait and switched the lady.
FWIW, if you ever decide to write that book you’ve threatened us with; you better get a ghost writer to clean up your ambiguous writing. You might want to give Richard a crack at this before the publisher dumps you. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Based on my experience with direct request and buying services, the buying services quotes are a few hundred higher than direct quotes. That the few hundred dollars that the dealer (err you) pay to the buying service.
If you go to dealer’s web site and request an itemized Out the Door quote, more than likely you will end up with a lower price and same expirence as you get from CarsDirect.
These services are a dime a dozen and I have seen a ton of them come and go.
I wish you well.
isell, that could well have been the case. The dealer I bought from was a direct competitor to the dealer I went to first. In fact, the salesman at the second dealership told me they would do almost anything they could to take a deal away from the dealer that was just a few miles from where I lived. Knowing that, maybe there is this ongoing animosity they have for each other and these two guys just won’t trade with each other.
However, you had to be there to see/hear/feel the arrogance of the guy that I went to first in 06’. What makes this tale almost unbelievable is the fact that he was my salesman in 05’. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was around before the Internet and I, like most car buyers at the time, had my hands full with the car buying process, like you didn’t know this. Like I’ve said before, numerous times, people don’t feel on guard when they go refrigerator shopping. I’ve also said, I think the car biz has come a long way from their days of the past. I have to give you guys credit for being able to deal with the legacy that you’ve inherited; I know I couldn’t do it.
Edmund's has been around for decades, I don't think they print the books any longer
As for that library thing, I wouldn’t waste my time going to the library to get a book/magazine then writing or printing the info (hell, I don’t think the library in my burgh even had a copier back then). To get my info stuff I went to the magazine stand, bought an Edmunds magazine, took it home, studied it, then went out to beat up on some poor car salesman. That old Edmunds magazine was pretty good; it kept my head above water several times.
Like I said plenty of times, car buying is not rocket science.
Don’t take all the credit for saying this. I’ve said something about the car buying process being simple too, you know.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But feeling the way I do, I guess I was off-base in believing what you said when you called customers a PITA. I should've known it wasn't true, coming from a car salesman.
Now that everyone has the information I used to have, my deals are nothing special.
Someone needs a hug.
Seriously though, there's truth on both sides. Do whatever works best for you. If going through a middle man makes you happy, then so be it. If you like to go into the dealership and pick out a vehicle with a salesman, so be it. Whatever makes you comfortable, I'm happy with.
On the other side of the coin, as is well documented on this forum, some customers are a royal pain. I think this is the 5% rule. 5% are horrible, 5% are fantastic, and the other 90% are normal. That 10% always seems to stand out a little bit more.
Just to throw my opinion in about Carsdirect. These guys have to go through a dealership to get the vehicle. That means that you may be paying more than you need to. They don't stock the vehicles and have an inventory. You're basically doing what I could do for you. Or, you could do for yourself. That's why the salesguys are looking down at Carsdirect.
However, many people will pay extra for the luxury of not having to do all the legwork. Nothing wrong with that. I've paid for room service on a number of occasions. :P
Good luck.
-moo
The book is in its early stages right now. I'm trying to figure out the order of the stories. I don't want to put the best one first as that would be anti-climatic.
Mack
:shades:
I rest my case. :P
Car buying is simple. It's the customers job to bring home as much money as possible to his family.
On the other hand, it's the salesmans job to bring home as much money for his family as possible. Errrr, wait.........
If you read my initial post, I got three quotes ON THE EXACT SAME CAR through buying services. How can anyone justify $1-2K differences? And I have to believe that Costco feels they're providing their members with a service. People use them because they so thoroughly distrust dealers. Yet even with their service, I clearly wasn't getting the "best price".
As I've said before, the whole process sucks. I can't blame sales personnel. When you see 90% of people in a job acting the same way, it's gotta be because the circumstances make it sensible to act that way. And I know that running everything through CarsDirect or a similar buying service isn't the answer either because no one's gonna be able to take a test drive if the dealers close up shop. I'm just saying that we really need a different model.
A previous (customer) poster stated that he misses having the advantage of being one of the few knowledgeable buyers because in the old, pre-internet days, he could exploit that knowledge without competition from other informed buyers. But I'd like to envision an environment where all customers, irrespective of their level of knowledge, were able to get the same deal.
That's what helped kill my interest in a GTI(well, that and the fact that the Louisville VW dealers have absolutely pathetic service departments). The sales guy basically told me that they don't special order cars. As for the Louisville Mazda dealer I visited(Oxmoor), their attitude was, "So you want a Mazdaspeed3? Well, sign a buyers order, put down a deposit, and we'll let you test drive one. Oh yeah, we don't do dealer trades, so you'll, just have to wait until we get one in the color you want. And when we DO get it it will have a big ADM sticker on the side window." The dealer I eventually bought from(Kings in Cincinnati) did all the right things; the salesperson followed up on my internet request, encouraged me to take a test drive, and found the MS3 I wanted and had it flat bedded in at no charge. It also didn't hurt that the guy was also a SCCA racer and currently owns several Triumph bikes.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The dealer called and now tells me they have to re register with the Calif DMV using current OD reading. This will look like I purchased a new car that had 1900+ miles on it. I was told I am being "unreasonable" when I expressed my concern about resale on a "DEMO" car.
Thanks
The new Highlander isn't lighting the world on fire and there is a $750 rebate on the table. I can't imagine you not being able to buy this vehicle for $400 - $500 under invoice quite easily.
Mack.... would you take this deal to move a unit?
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Who is going to publish or purchase a book that ends with"To be continued"? :P
Richard
Highlander Limited AWD
Options:
Radio: AM/FM/6 CD Changer/9 JBL Speakers
Heated Seats
Rear Automatic Air Conditioner
Power Back Door
Rear Spoiler w/High Mount Stop Lamp
Power Tilt and Slide Sunroof
Towing Prep Package
Carpet Floor/Cargo Mat Set/3rd Row Mat
You wrote a well balanced piece in fairness to carsalesmen and consumers. As customers, we cannot escape one thing: We are all responsible for shaping and controlling our own destinies---whether it be related to careers, houses, cars, etc. The best possible way to do this is to remember that knowledge is power. Edmunds is built on this premise. Thank you for your objectivity.
Richard
I think that would make an intriguing title!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I know isell doens't understand why customers get stuck on colors, but I find most of the Honda colors downright ugly and I don't do black. For cars that generally have only 2 or 3 trim levels, it's incredibly hard to find the car I want :mad:
Ah, so you're a communist/socialist?
The "one-price" model has been experimented with and simply doesn't seem to work. People like to feel like they are getting a good deal. Big ticket items need to be negotiated on. Why? So that they can be sold. If home prices were only one price, then there would be even more inventory just sitting around waiting on someone to purchase. Flexibility on both sides = more sales. The system is in place and there is no real reason to think it will change anytime soon.
So, we get what we got here. Carsdirect and their ilk and internet requests.
I'll give you a little insight into the "best price" quandary. From the customer's perspective, the "best price" is the lowest possible price that a dealer is willing to sell a vehicle for. From a dealership's perspective, the "best price" is the price that both parties are willing to do. See the problem?
In the first scenario, the dealership ends up being an information service. In the second, you end up buying a car and the dealership sells one. Because of the enormous amount of competition in car sales, we need to have the consumer interacting with us. That's the way to make a sale. So, when you ask for the "best price", there's no real decent answer to that question. (This is coming from a salesman who has run internet departments at Nissan, Honda and Porsche.)
At any rate, the system is not changing at all in the near future. As you mentioned, you still need to come to the dealership to test drive. Why not test drive a salesman as well? Find someone you like and who treats you the way you would like to be treated.
-moo
Here is the problem with this statement: IMHO, the fact is when a customer says to give him my best deal, and I do exactly what he asks, they always say it's not good enough. It really doesn't matter. I could give a great deal on the first pencil and the customer wants more. It's really a no win situation doing that way. Very rarely have I had someone say, "wow, where do I sign?"
I agree with another poster that said you're acting a little high and mighty (or something to that end, condescending maybe?) like you are better than most sales people. Here's a thought: Do your research, make an out the door offer to a few different dealers and go with the one that meets your request or is the closest to it. There are a lot of times customers make the buying process much more difficult, and much more dramatic, than it has to be.
BTW, "extort" is a pretty strong word to use. My personal view is whether I make $1500 or $100 off a deal, if my customer is happy, I am. I go into every deal not thinking at first "how much money can I make off this guy." The first thing is finding something he would consider buying. At that point, yes (Gasp!) I maximize the profit the dealership and I can make. As I said, sometimes that's $100, sometimes a lot more. Should I be ashamed of that?
On a personal note, I enjoying reading this thread more than any other. Long time lurker, rare poster.