"Mack.... would you take this deal to move a unit?"
In a New York minute. We have them coming out of our ears.
"give me your best price on a new Highlander Limited with AWD"
The problem with this type of question is that the customer doesn't have a clue of the current market price in his area. What's a best price? the lowest price? I tell customers to look at the whole picture, price, financing, service after the sale, etc,etc, . That's why Isell and me keep preaching to ask around for a good salesperson that will be there for you when you need something from the service department, i.e they are packed that day but I go talk to one of my service advisors and get them to take your car in. Take you to parts and get you the Mack discount which is 20% off instead of the 10% off you have to ask for but don't get from the parts counter guy. Get the picture? Mack
I know where Montalvo is coming from. The car buying process can be a real joke sometimes. When you run into issues with a number of different salespeople, you'll get tired of it. Hell, you might even pay someone else just to do the legwork for you. I don't have any qualms with that.
The business has changed dramatically over the last few years and will continue to get better. My opinion is that people like to swap stories and car salesmen are fun targets. It's rare that I've heard so much venom towards mortgage brokers. I guess that one hits too close to home. The people who put together loans on your homes and make 3 points on you over 30 years..... those are the ones to be complaining about. Not the poor schlep who you've just ground to death and who is making a mini.
bmw3434, you make some good points but (he said, defensively) I think I've been fairly balanced in condemning sales rep behavior, rather than claiming it's a character fault. Sales reps do what the sales model requires. If you're totally honest, you're not going to last in a dealership sales job because you'll only get low-margin business. It's sensible behavior...but that doesn't mean customers shouldn't object to it.
But here's a point that you miss when you compare home sales to car sales. Cars are a commodity; homes are unique. If you examine commodity markets, there's one price for corn. It doesn't matter whether it comes from Iowa or Kansas...corn's corn. So a customer can justifiable feel cheated when he finds that the exact same car that he just purchased was sold on the same day across town for $1K less than he paid. That comparability is what impugns the integrity of car sales personnel and leads to feelings of distrust among consumers.
If you quoted a price to every customer that the dealership required to maintain its target profitability, you'd eliminate the inconsistencies in pricing that customers interpret as dishonesty. Instead, you over-price your commodities for the timid, the uninformed and the ignorant and you under-price for everyone else in order to maximize volume. As I said, there's no one to blame. It's a model that's destined to create hard feelings.
I'm not smart enough to suggest a better model (despite Mack's claim that I'm condescending). I'm just saying that the current model continues to create hard feelings among your customers and that's something that business owners should try to rectify.
Think about it... Manufacturers need people to work with the customers and take care of them and their issues. I don't believe a website can do all that.
The day the car becomes a commodity, and not a capital expense, websites will work the way OP / carsdirect.com think about the process.
A salesman is not dishonest simply because he tries to make the most money on you possible. He's dishonest if he LIES to you. The salesman is there to SELL the product. The sizzle sells it. The best example of this is door to door vacuum salesman. He has a presentation that will boggle your mind and make you want to pay full retail for his product. Why? Because he showed you how awesome it is.
The fact that some people pay more for the vehicle means that you can pay less. Simple as that. If noone wants to buy the car, then the price drops even more.
If you quoted a price to every customer that the dealership required to maintain its target profitability, you'd eliminate the inconsistencies in pricing that customers interpret as dishonesty. Instead, you over-price your commodities for the timid, the uninformed and the ignorant and you under-price for everyone else in order to maximize volume. As I said, there's no one to blame. It's a model that's destined to create hard feelings.
Right, then they would take that price and go to the dealership that says they will beat any quote. The entire system would need to be on board and that isn't going to happen. It's called capitalism. Get used to it.
We don't overprice anything. The MSRP is the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Not the DRP. Dealership's Retail Price.
The timid, uninformed, ignorant people have a lot more to worry about than car sales. They have a whole life ahead of them with obstacles. We don't live in a society that holds everyone's hands, although some would like that. It's simply not realistic. Get rid of the "wishes and hopes" and start dealing with reality. You don't have to pay full retail because other people do. Pretty nice setup, I think.
Mack, there may be some customer somewhere who's thinking about such things as after-sale service when they buy a new car, but I gotta believe such people are very few and far between. People will often drive across town to get a lower price, knowing they're never going to visit that dealership again and will get the car serviced at their local dealer. For the vast majority of people, the "best price" means "the lowest price on this commodity, delivered in a timely fashion"...period. And if the customer were schooled in finance, they'd say more correctly, "the lowest net present value of discounted cash flows associated with the purchase of this car at my cost of capital". That would take into account all the lease/financing issues that, as you rightly point out, do influence the ultimate sales price.
"Best price" ultimately is all about value: what do I get and what does it cost? Since the "what do I get" is defined so precisely by the manufacturer, all emphasis is placed on "what does it cost".
Yeah but cars aren't commodities so your premise is flawed. I guess the absolute most mass market cars are sort of a commodity but not really.
Some colors and options are hard ton find or location specific. I sold two cars last week where both people overpaid by over 1,000 dollars and they overpaid for a variety of reasons. Both cars were very difficult to find and one was actually the only one in the whole country so it was trucked in from over 500 miles away. Another reason they overpaid was because of convenience like moo was talking about. I handled everything over the phone for them, including conference calls between myself and the buyers as it was a husband and wife who were not even in the same country, and one of them never ever set foot inside the dealership.
When the car was ready I drove it to their house did the paperwork with them and went over the car. I did everything I could to accommodate their busy schedule and was rewarded with a little extra profit for my trouble. I have no problem with that.
I do have a problem when someone grinds me down to almost nothing and then wants me to take the car to their house two hours away and waste more of my time but those are two different stories.
Oh and another thing I am not a farmer so I don't know about corn but my father was in the oil business for a very long time and there are most definitely different grades of crude oil. You might see one commodity price for a barrel of oil but there are different types of crude that are worth different amounts. Some crude is better for fuel some is better for distillates and some is better for making resins to be used in plastics etc. All crude oil can be made into those things but some kinds are easier then others and some kinds will get greater proportions of certain products.
"there's one price for corn. It doesn't matter whether it comes from Iowa or Kansas...corn's corn."
Although I was not the one that compared buying a car to buying a home, one thing is for sure: Buying a car is nothing like buying a can of corn, ear of corn or anything dealing with corn.
"So a customer can justifiable feel cheated when he finds that the exact same car that he just purchased was sold on the same day across town for $1K less than he paid"
There are so many variables, whether it's a new or used car. How do you know that the car across town is the same, what if it's a demo, what if it's been damaged by a lot boy, etc... And why in the world is the customer still shopping price when they've already bought and taken delivery of a car. Be happy with your new car for crying out loud! Again, there are so many variables that I feel are important when buying a new car. Dealership, sales person, management, service, parts.... They all should go hand in hand. And I absolutely believe price should too. I'm not saying price is last on the list, I just think the whole picture should be taken into account. This type of thinking is why I feel as though I've been successful (thus far) in the car business.
can I use your name in the book? Edmund's I mean.?
I can't give legal advice but generally I don't see a problem naming any public site or forum. People do that all the time. There may be copyright issues when quoting content but permissions are usually easy to get.
OK, moo, your last post caused me to stop and reflect on the fact that I am, after all, a dedicated free market advocate. And I clearly would be opposed to a legal mandate that stipulated that every car had to be sold at MSRP or any other price, for that matter. And yes, I believe in caveate emptor, "let the buyer beware". So philosophically, you've got me beat.
That said, it still seems like it would be to the manufacturers advantage to remove some of the distasteful experiences from the car purchasing process. What finally happened to the Saturn one-price, no-haggling experience anyway? Clearly it didn't get adopted industry-wide. But is it still in effect?
I know where Montalvo is coming from. The car buying process can be a real joke sometimes. When you run into issues with a number of different salespeople, you'll get tired of it. Hell, you might even pay someone else just to do the legwork for you. I don't have any qualms with that.
That, my friend, is the whole reason, dealerships came into existence.
Imagine, if you, the customer had to talk to each manufacturer, and arrange for the shipment of your car from the plant to your house. PITA.
In a New York minute. We have them coming out of our ears.
I thought so!
a good salesperson that will be there for you when you need something from the service department
On one occasion the service department really screwed up my car for the second time (moonroof problem) when they wouldn't do what I wanted I simply called my salesperson and told her the situation. In ten minutes she said come pick up your loaner and your car will be right by tommorow.... (they ended up replacing the enitire moonroof assembly rather than waiting for a small backordered part) that is why I have bought 3 cars from her....
Really? Unless it is a custom home, you can find a home that looks just like yours, maybe with a few accessories more or less
It doesn't matter whether it comes from Iowa or Kansas...corn's corn.
How about potatoes? Why Idaho or Russett? Why not just potatoes?
Same for Rice. If you think Rice is Rice, man you lived in the US for too long and you have no idea how many varieties and how much the price differs (1000%)
Once I've decided what I want, a new car is a commodity. No, that doesn't apply to used cars, demos, damaged cars, cars for which you must wait six months, etc. But the car I'm buying is going to be identical whether it comes from one dealership or another. And that ease of comparability is what allows people to focus on price as an indicator of whether they're getting a "fair" deal. Now this may all be customer perception but for your customers, perception is reality and I think you guys would benefit from recognizing that.
british rover, the example you cited was one where you were clearly NOT selling a commodity. But those are the tiniest minority of new car sales.
Once I've decided what I want, a new car is a commodity. But the car I'm buying is going to be identical whether it comes from one dealership or another
So? There are many other factors. Too many to list. examples:
Why pay more for bread at the gas station convenience store when you can pay less at Walmart?
Why pay for Genuine Rolex when you can get a fake one that shows the time just as accurate?
Why buy the highlander when you get get a Mazda CX-7 for much cheaper?
Your thinking is "socialism", bordering on communism.
Anybody, irrespective of their level of knowledge, can walk into our local Albertson's and buy a gallon of milk for $2.59. I have a hard time grasping the concept of Albertson's being socialistic let alone bordering on communistic. :P
In any case, I don't think we want to do the dealer vs. customer smackdown ordeal here. Perhaps some new stories from the sales frontlines would be in order? Consider that nudge.
I can take a hint, tidester. Time for me to bow out. Thanks for the spirited discussion, sales folks. I think I really did learn something and I hope you did, too (even if it's just reinforcement that customers are a PITA!)
Anybody, irrespective of their level of knowledge, can walk into our local Albertson's and buy a gallon of milk for $2.59. I have a hard time grasping the concept of Albertson's being socialistic let alone bordering on communistic.
because the cost of the product is too low for Albertson's to afford a full time salesman who will give them a test drive of the milk they wish to buy, plus any other convenience.
That said, Tom Thumb (the nice store by Alberstons) charges few cents more for the same milk, across the street because they do have cashiers who treat you with respect, offer to take out your groceries and load them up in your car.
By the way, if milk is $2.59, send a six of them. please. Over here, it is $$4.99 or more, depending on the brand and the store you buy it from.
and this is the frontline. How products are priced and why they are priced that way. I am continuing on this topic.
Funny thing that. MIlk is well over $4 a gallon everywhere over here except at Costco where it is indeed $2.59 a gallon. Where do you need it shipped?
The stories and theories have been interesting. My personal dealings have things to support both sides. Unfortunately I have more bad dealership stories than good ones.
When I bought my daughters car I made a point to go to the salesman who I've experienced do all the right things - putting in a word with service when needed, providing loaners, etc. Unfortunately he was selling a 97 Accord for a good $2K more than the Edmunds TMV and off the scale for any book I'd seen even if you plug in outstanding - and it wasn't outstanding. It was very good but had a rear bumper that needed repainting and that was not included in the sales price. Dealership wouldn't budge and the salesman was genuinely surprised when we went elsewhere. For that extra $2k I'd need a heck of a lot of free oil changes.....
I don't dicker down to the last nickel. As long as I'm in the ballpark of a fair price I'm fine. However, I'm not an open wallet for the dealership's dreams.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
The book is in its early stages right now. I'm trying to figure out the order of the stories. I don't want to put the best one first as that would be anti-climatic.
Hint you better put a VERY good story in the lead off position. That will make them want to read on. Save your best tale for the clean up position. I’d suggest making that close to the last one. This way, you’ll have something that they will be expecting in a sequel.
Come to think of it, this sounds like you need a marketeer, like me.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
has said it best. Albertsons charging $2.95 for Milk is hardly a communist/socialist practice.
Of course it is not. But there is a reason why it is not. (read my reply to dear host to find that out)
Come to India. There you will find that Mom/pop stores are selling the same product to different people for different prices high & low. The govt had to step in and rule that each and every packaged product (bread, lipstick, razor blades, shampoo, etc) will now on have a MSRP printed on them to prevent this practice of overpricing (??).
different from auto sales how? Every car I have has a window sticker with MSRP on it. Pay that and you get no arguments from me. Believe me, I think everyone should pay the same price...STICKER.
different from auto sales how? It is different because there is a salesperson in front of the customer.
If there was no salesperson, then the customer will pay what is marked on the sticker.
Customers just like to haggle with the salesperson. It is basic human nature. The lack/absence of any salesperson on the sales floor will lead to no haggle pricing.
Try this, if you can.
Tell your customer that you cannot change any prices. The prices have been set by the owner and he is not reachable. The customer will either buy it (low chance), or go to store where he can "utilize" his bargaining skills with somebody with some authority. But if all the dealerships had no salesperson, and only cashiers with no price change authority, the customer will buy from the place that offers him the most convenience/comfort/warm/fuzzy feel/solace and be done with it.
Sure, just make stickers relevant and peole may pay them. As long as stickers have nothing to do with the value of the car, people will refuse to pay them...
One (sticker) price may be a good concept - as long as the sticker makes sense.
?? making sense is always in reference to something.
If all dealers had the same sticker price, what is there to NOT make sense?
Either you buy it or you don't !!!
As long as stickers have nothing to do with the value of the car, people will refuse to pay them... So how do you determine value? When you go to guy a handbag, you can buy one for $20.00 at the local accessories store or spend $1200 or more if you shop at LVMH store (Louis Vuitton). How do you determine your value?
mind folks, I'm selling BMW's. The sticker has everything to do with the value. If people can't afford it, there are many great manufactureres that can meet your budget. They ain't for everybody.
I know I will get crushed for being arrogant. Arrogance is thinking I should discount a BMW like a Ford.
I have a good idea for a book. We'll take all of the posts for the last three years and divide them into chapters---each chapter named for one of the regular posters here. Each chapter will open with a brief one page biography of the poster, followed by his "rant and rave" posts. A brief positive or negative critique will follow each post---done by our two wonderful Hosts. In the back of the book, we will have a glossary of terms and acronyms used in the posts. This will really educate the reader.
You will market the book as the only negotiable priced book ever sold. MSRP for the book will begin at $29.95 with an invoice of $9.95. Like "Mop and Glow", we'll add a fancy book jacket, a lovely bookmark, and a CD of the book for an extra $15.95. We will accept trade-ins of old books---only if they are car related. Salesmen will be on hand to "test drive" or read portions of the book to the customers. A "service department" will be maintained to answer questions about the posts in the book. The book will have a limited warranty covering the book jacket, book cover, and worn pages. There will be a yearly depreciation on the book of $5.00 per year. The "Parts Department" will replace book bindings, book marks, CD's, etc. for a nominal fee of $10.95.
The design of the book jacket is as follows: Our two illustrious Hosts surrounded by all of the regular posters, standing in front of a child's red pedal car.
After the initial sales of the book to the public, it will then be sold to universities for use in their Psychology 101 classes---as a study on abnormal psychology. Then it will be sold to the English departments---as a study in new language patterns. Each poster will serve as a visiting consultant to tell students about their individual chapters---at a rate of $1,000 per hour plus expenses. Greenpea will be in much demand by the English departments, and jmonroe will be in much demand by the Consumer Finance departments. Mack will be needed by the Public Service departments, and Joel will be invited to appear before the ROTC classes. Oldfarmer can talk to the transportation departments, and Moo will do presentations before the political science classes regarding diplomacy issues. Isellhondas will be needed to promote the book before car manufacturers, and snakeweassel will convince accountants that the book could be a tax deduction under the right circumstances. Everyone will have a job to do.
I will not proof the book. It will serve the public better in its raw, natural, colorful state. A portion of the profits will be donated to the charity called TROUAB---The Rehabilitation Of Uneducated Automobile Buyers.
(I really should make better use of my Friday afternoon. :sick: )
You guys might not have cash on the hoods or in the trunk but there is plenty in the way of incentives built into the BMW leases. In fact I know I saw a few stories showing that european brands have more in the way of incentives then domestics but it is all tied into incentivized leases so it is a little better hidden.
Edmunds.com estimates that the domestic automakers offered an average of $3,268 on each vehicle sold in June as they tried to clear out the supply of 2007 models to prepare for the new model year. That was up $113 from June. European brands overtook the U.S. automakers, as they upped incentives by $350 to $3,292 per vehicle.
I saw some incentive breakdowns at some Land Rover training last year and it gave the dollar amount various manufacturers were spending to get their lease payments down to a certain level. For BMW they were spending over 10,000 dollars in enhanced residuals and money factors to buy down the lease payment for a X3. It is not something the dealer sees really or even something the customer sees but they are there.
Honestly I think it is a better way to put the incentives in then how the domestics do it because it cuts down on the fire sale mentality and protects resale. It is very hard to compete against too when your brand doesn't have the volume and/or cash to support that kind of incentive spending on a lease.
My Highlander is being delivered to my house tomorrow between 11 and 1:00. The price was as agreed and I'm paying with a personal check. The dealership is located about 100 miles from my house.
Discounting the dealer contacts which were for comparative purposes, this experience has been outstanding and, while others may well have a different experience with CarsDirect, it was terrific for me.
Here's wishing all you sales reps a steady stream of "timid, uninformed and ignorant customers", providing you with high margins to help you weather the recessionary sales slump.
Here's wishing all you sales reps a steady stream of "timid, uninformed and ignorant customers"
Oh man you really don't like us do you? Those are the worst customers for several reasons...
1. They are timid so they can't make a decision and drag the process out for much longer then it can take.
2. They are uninformed which normally means they think they can buy everything for invoice which is just not the case with many vehicles.
3. They are ignorant which means I have to spend two hours going over the most basic features that anyone who has bought a car in this century should know.
I don't want ignorant/uninformed customers. I want educated customers, it makes my job much easier. Again, you may have a different mindset sitting on my side of the desk.
Congratulations on the new ride. Toyota makes a wonderful trouble free unit. I wish you safe and happy motoring for years to come.
Comments
In a New York minute. We have them coming out of our ears.
"give me your best price on a new Highlander Limited with AWD"
The problem with this type of question is that the customer doesn't have a clue of the current market price in his area. What's a best price? the lowest price? I tell customers to look at the whole picture, price, financing, service after the sale, etc,etc, . That's why Isell and me keep preaching to ask around for a good salesperson that will be there for you when you need something from the service department, i.e they are packed that day but I go talk to one of my service advisors and get them to take your car in. Take you to parts and get you the Mack discount which is 20% off instead of the 10% off you have to ask for but don't get from the parts counter guy. Get the picture?
Mack
I know where Montalvo is coming from. The car buying process can be a real joke sometimes. When you run into issues with a number of different salespeople, you'll get tired of it. Hell, you might even pay someone else just to do the legwork for you. I don't have any qualms with that.
The business has changed dramatically over the last few years and will continue to get better. My opinion is that people like to swap stories and car salesmen are fun targets. It's rare that I've heard so much venom towards mortgage brokers. I guess that one hits too close to home. The people who put together loans on your homes and make 3 points on you over 30 years..... those are the ones to be complaining about. Not the poor schlep who you've just ground to death and who is making a mini.
-moo
Mack :shades:
Mack :shades:
Mack
Mack
Mack
:shades:
Richard
But here's a point that you miss when you compare home sales to car sales. Cars are a commodity; homes are unique. If you examine commodity markets, there's one price for corn. It doesn't matter whether it comes from Iowa or Kansas...corn's corn. So a customer can justifiable feel cheated when he finds that the exact same car that he just purchased was sold on the same day across town for $1K less than he paid. That comparability is what impugns the integrity of car sales personnel and leads to feelings of distrust among consumers.
If you quoted a price to every customer that the dealership required to maintain its target profitability, you'd eliminate the inconsistencies in pricing that customers interpret as dishonesty. Instead, you over-price your commodities for the timid, the uninformed and the ignorant and you under-price for everyone else in order to maximize volume. As I said, there's no one to blame. It's a model that's destined to create hard feelings.
I'm not smart enough to suggest a better model (despite Mack's claim that I'm condescending). I'm just saying that the current model continues to create hard feelings among your customers and that's something that business owners should try to rectify.
The day the car becomes a commodity, and not a capital expense, websites will work the way OP / carsdirect.com think about the process.
A salesman is not dishonest simply because he tries to make the most money on you possible. He's dishonest if he LIES to you. The salesman is there to SELL the product. The sizzle sells it. The best example of this is door to door vacuum salesman. He has a presentation that will boggle your mind and make you want to pay full retail for his product. Why? Because he showed you how awesome it is.
The fact that some people pay more for the vehicle means that you can pay less. Simple as that. If noone wants to buy the car, then the price drops even more.
If you quoted a price to every customer that the dealership required to maintain its target profitability, you'd eliminate the inconsistencies in pricing that customers interpret as dishonesty. Instead, you over-price your commodities for the timid, the uninformed and the ignorant and you under-price for everyone else in order to maximize volume. As I said, there's no one to blame. It's a model that's destined to create hard feelings.
Right, then they would take that price and go to the dealership that says they will beat any quote. The entire system would need to be on board and that isn't going to happen. It's called capitalism. Get used to it.
We don't overprice anything. The MSRP is the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Not the DRP. Dealership's Retail Price.
The timid, uninformed, ignorant people have a lot more to worry about than car sales. They have a whole life ahead of them with obstacles. We don't live in a society that holds everyone's hands, although some would like that. It's simply not realistic. Get rid of the "wishes and hopes" and start dealing with reality. You don't have to pay full retail because other people do. Pretty nice setup, I think.
-moo
"Best price" ultimately is all about value: what do I get and what does it cost? Since the "what do I get" is defined so precisely by the manufacturer, all emphasis is placed on "what does it cost".
BTW, my zip is 95746.
Some colors and options are hard ton find or location specific. I sold two cars last week where both people overpaid by over 1,000 dollars and they overpaid for a variety of reasons. Both cars were very difficult to find and one was actually the only one in the whole country so it was trucked in from over 500 miles away. Another reason they overpaid was because of convenience like moo was talking about. I handled everything over the phone for them, including conference calls between myself and the buyers as it was a husband and wife who were not even in the same country, and one of them never ever set foot inside the dealership.
When the car was ready I drove it to their house did the paperwork with them and went over the car. I did everything I could to accommodate their busy schedule and was rewarded with a little extra profit for my trouble. I have no problem with that.
I do have a problem when someone grinds me down to almost nothing and then wants me to take the car to their house two hours away and waste more of my time but those are two different stories.
Oh and another thing I am not a farmer so I don't know about corn but my father was in the oil business for a very long time and there are most definitely different grades of crude oil. You might see one commodity price for a barrel of oil but there are different types of crude that are worth different amounts. Some crude is better for fuel some is better for distillates and some is better for making resins to be used in plastics etc. All crude oil can be made into those things but some kinds are easier then others and some kinds will get greater proportions of certain products.
Your thinking is "socialism", bordering on communism.
USA follows capitalism.
Ah, so you're a communist/socialist?
ahh.....my long lost brother......I have to visit you.
we don't speak often, but we sure do think alike :shades:
Although I was not the one that compared buying a car to buying a home, one thing is for sure: Buying a car is nothing like buying a can of corn, ear of corn or anything dealing with corn.
"So a customer can justifiable feel cheated when he finds that the exact same car that he just purchased was sold on the same day across town for $1K less than he paid"
There are so many variables, whether it's a new or used car. How do you know that the car across town is the same, what if it's a demo, what if it's been damaged by a lot boy, etc... And why in the world is the customer still shopping price when they've already bought and taken delivery of a car. Be happy with your new car for crying out loud!
Again, there are so many variables that I feel are important when buying a new car. Dealership, sales person, management, service, parts.... They all should go hand in hand. And I absolutely believe price should too. I'm not saying price is last on the list, I just think the whole picture should be taken into account.
This type of thinking is why I feel as though I've been successful (thus far) in the car business.
I can't give legal advice but generally I don't see a problem naming any public site or forum. People do that all the time. There may be copyright issues when quoting content but permissions are usually easy to get.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Those UPS skills do come in handy with zip codes from time to time. That zip code is mid way up the state maybe near San Francisco?
Ehh well no probably not that close to the coast so probably a good bit east of San Francisco.
That said, it still seems like it would be to the manufacturers advantage to remove some of the distasteful experiences from the car purchasing process. What finally happened to the Saturn one-price, no-haggling experience anyway? Clearly it didn't get adopted industry-wide. But is it still in effect?
That, my friend, is the whole reason, dealerships came into existence.
Imagine, if you, the customer had to talk to each manufacturer, and arrange for the shipment of your car from the plant to your house. PITA.
I thought so!
a good salesperson that will be there for you when you need something from the service department
On one occasion the service department really screwed up my car for the second time (moonroof problem) when they wouldn't do what I wanted I simply called my salesperson and told her the situation. In ten minutes she said come pick up your loaner and your car will be right by tommorow.... (they ended up replacing the enitire moonroof assembly rather than waiting for a small backordered part) that is why I have bought 3 cars from her....
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
My dictionary defines commodity as "articles of commerce" so I don't see why cars would be excluded.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Really? Unless it is a custom home, you can find a home that looks just like yours, maybe with a few accessories more or less
It doesn't matter whether it comes from Iowa or Kansas...corn's corn.
How about potatoes? Why Idaho or Russett? Why not just potatoes?
Same for Rice. If you think Rice is Rice, man you lived in the US for too long and you have no idea how many varieties and how much the price differs (1000%)
british rover, the example you cited was one where you were clearly NOT selling a commodity. But those are the tiniest minority of new car sales.
So? There are many other factors. Too many to list. examples:
Why pay more for bread at the gas station convenience store when you can pay less at Walmart?
Why pay for Genuine Rolex when you can get a fake one that shows the time just as accurate?
Why buy the highlander when you get get a Mazda CX-7 for much cheaper?
Anybody, irrespective of their level of knowledge, can walk into our local Albertson's and buy a gallon of milk for $2.59. I have a hard time grasping the concept of Albertson's being socialistic let alone bordering on communistic. :P
In any case, I don't think we want to do the dealer vs. customer smackdown ordeal here. Perhaps some new stories from the sales frontlines would be in order? Consider that nudge.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
because the cost of the product is too low for Albertson's to afford a full time salesman who will give them a test drive of the milk they wish to buy, plus any other convenience.
That said, Tom Thumb (the nice store by Alberstons) charges few cents more for the same milk, across the street because they do have cashiers who treat you with respect, offer to take out your groceries and load them up in your car.
By the way, if milk is $2.59, send a six of them. please. Over here, it is $$4.99 or more, depending on the brand and the store you buy it from.
and this is the frontline. How products are priced and why they are priced that way. I am continuing on this topic.
The stories and theories have been interesting. My personal dealings have things to support both sides. Unfortunately I have more bad dealership stories than good ones.
When I bought my daughters car I made a point to go to the salesman who I've experienced do all the right things - putting in a word with service when needed, providing loaners, etc. Unfortunately he was selling a 97 Accord for a good $2K more than the Edmunds TMV and off the scale for any book I'd seen even if you plug in outstanding - and it wasn't outstanding. It was very good but had a rear bumper that needed repainting and that was not included in the sales price. Dealership wouldn't budge and the salesman was genuinely surprised when we went elsewhere. For that extra $2k I'd need a heck of a lot of free oil changes.....
I don't dicker down to the last nickel. As long as I'm in the ballpark of a fair price I'm fine. However, I'm not an open wallet for the dealership's dreams.
Hint you better put a VERY good story in the lead off position. That will make them want to read on. Save your best tale for the clean up position. I’d suggest making that close to the last one. This way, you’ll have something that they will be expecting in a sequel.
Come to think of it, this sounds like you need a marketeer, like me.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Therefore, all those here with a like mindset will pay full sticker from now on.
Let the whining, and crying begin.
Seriously, some people's idea of a good price is the discount off MSRP. Others is how much can they grind down below invoice.
People asking me for the "best price" are already "playing the game" I'm out on that.
Of course it is not. But there is a reason why it is not. (read my reply to dear host to find that out)
Come to India. There you will find that Mom/pop stores are selling the same product to different people for different prices high & low. The govt had to step in and rule that each and every packaged product (bread, lipstick, razor blades, shampoo, etc) will now on have a MSRP printed on them to prevent this practice of overpricing (??).
Every car I have has a window sticker with MSRP on it. Pay that and you get no arguments from me. Believe me, I think everyone should pay the same price...STICKER.
...so that's what you've paid for all the cars you've purchased???
only new car I have ever bought was a MINI cooper S and those only go for sticker
It is different because there is a salesperson in front of the customer.
If there was no salesperson, then the customer will pay what is marked on the sticker.
Customers just like to haggle with the salesperson. It is basic human nature. The lack/absence of any salesperson on the sales floor will lead to no haggle pricing.
Try this, if you can.
Tell your customer that you cannot change any prices.
The prices have been set by the owner and he is not reachable.
The customer will either buy it (low chance), or go to store where he can "utilize" his bargaining skills with somebody with some authority. But if all the dealerships had no salesperson, and only cashiers with no price change authority, the customer will buy from the place that offers him the most convenience/comfort/warm/fuzzy feel/solace and be done with it.
One (sticker) price may be a good concept - as long as the sticker makes sense.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
?? making sense is always in reference to something.
If all dealers had the same sticker price, what is there to NOT make sense?
Either you buy it or you don't !!!
As long as stickers have nothing to do with the value of the car, people will refuse to pay them...
So how do you determine value? When you go to guy a handbag, you can buy one for $20.00 at the local accessories store or spend $1200 or more if you shop at LVMH store (Louis Vuitton). How do you determine your value?
I know I will get crushed for being arrogant. Arrogance is thinking I should discount a BMW like a Ford.
You will market the book as the only negotiable priced book ever sold. MSRP for the book will begin at $29.95 with an invoice of $9.95. Like "Mop and Glow", we'll add a fancy book jacket, a lovely bookmark, and a CD of the book for an extra $15.95. We will accept trade-ins of old books---only if they are car related. Salesmen will be on hand to "test drive" or read portions of the book to the customers. A "service department" will be maintained to answer questions about the posts in the book. The book will have a limited warranty covering the book jacket, book cover, and worn pages. There will be a yearly depreciation on the book of $5.00 per year. The "Parts Department" will replace book bindings, book marks, CD's, etc. for a nominal fee of $10.95.
The design of the book jacket is as follows: Our two illustrious Hosts surrounded by all of the regular posters, standing in front of a child's red pedal car.
After the initial sales of the book to the public, it will then be sold to universities for use in their Psychology 101 classes---as a study on abnormal psychology. Then it will be sold to the English departments---as a study in new language patterns. Each poster will serve as a visiting consultant to tell students about their individual chapters---at a rate of $1,000 per hour plus expenses. Greenpea will be in much demand by the English departments, and jmonroe will be in much demand by the Consumer Finance departments. Mack will be needed by the Public Service departments, and Joel will be invited to appear before the ROTC classes. Oldfarmer can talk to the transportation departments, and Moo will do presentations before the political science classes regarding diplomacy issues. Isellhondas will be needed to promote the book before car manufacturers, and snakeweassel will convince accountants that the book could be a tax deduction under the right circumstances. Everyone will have a job to do.
I will not proof the book. It will serve the public better in its raw, natural, colorful state. A portion of the profits will be donated to the charity called TROUAB---The Rehabilitation Of Uneducated Automobile Buyers.
(I really should make better use of my Friday afternoon. :sick: )
Richard
Edmunds.com estimates that the domestic automakers offered an average of $3,268 on each vehicle sold in June as they tried to clear out the supply of 2007 models to prepare for the new model year. That was up $113 from June. European brands overtook the U.S. automakers, as they upped incentives by $350 to $3,292 per vehicle.
Older story I know but you see what I mean.
link title
I saw some incentive breakdowns at some Land Rover training last year and it gave the dollar amount various manufacturers were spending to get their lease payments down to a certain level. For BMW they were spending over 10,000 dollars in enhanced residuals and money factors to buy down the lease payment for a X3. It is not something the dealer sees really or even something the customer sees but they are there.
Honestly I think it is a better way to put the incentives in then how the domestics do it because it cuts down on the fire sale mentality and protects resale. It is very hard to compete against too when your brand doesn't have the volume and/or cash to support that kind of incentive spending on a lease.
Discounting the dealer contacts which were for comparative purposes, this experience has been outstanding and, while others may well have a different experience with CarsDirect, it was terrific for me.
Here's wishing all you sales reps a steady stream of "timid, uninformed and ignorant customers", providing you with high margins to help you weather the recessionary sales slump.
All the best.
Oh man you really don't like us do you? Those are the worst customers for several reasons...
1. They are timid so they can't make a decision and drag the process out for much longer then it can take.
2. They are uninformed which normally means they think they can buy everything for invoice which is just not the case with many vehicles.
3. They are ignorant which means I have to spend two hours going over the most basic features that anyone who has bought a car in this century should know.
Congratulations on the new ride. Toyota makes a wonderful trouble free unit. I wish you safe and happy motoring for years to come.
It sounds like you don't mind paying for that service and that's a good thing.
Hope it all works out well for you.