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Come on Boomer...you always give such sane common sense information. These guys pay book value no matter what. They didn't even look at the trade in - they could have done it over the phone, they just wanted to make sure it was running with no damage. They aren't even trying. They are reducing the price on the 08 because BMW gives them a rebate on 08's and they are probably keeping part of that - which they shouldn't. Run from that dealer as fast as possible!
I remember when I had a V8 and gas went up in 84. Dealers said we can't give you much for an 8 cylinder. When I get a 6 they say people want 8s. If you trade in a car they say they'd give you more if it was an SUV. Now, they won't give you much for an SUV. This dealer says there are too many Acuras around. I looked it up and I can't find any in New Brunswick. I wouldn't have the patience. I'd buy a car from a competitor and then drive up and ask them why the other dealer could put a deal together!!!!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I didn't see that one listed on the color charts. Artic white maybe, never old peoples white.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Recently I've seen an 08 Accord sedan with the fake convertible treatment. Man, that was ugly!
I don't particularly see that working on any cars nowadays but at least if are going to do it put it on a Marquis - not on anything Japanese!
Excellent advice. I would second the motion. There are many good salespeople out there who would appreciate your biz and treat you right.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
and I really like one of those big horses protruding from the hood.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I never ever give trade in values over the phone. Just like a buyer would never buy one of our used cars over the phone without even seeing a picture of it. I've seen cars that needed thousands of dollars in repairs that their owners claimed over the phone were in very good condition.
Until I see your vehicle and sit in it and take it around the block, for all I care it's worth a dollar.
Bringing it in for the dealer to see in person is the effort you as a customer have to put in if you want to get a "better deal" or save money. It doesn't come so easy with a phone call about "what's my car worth"
As for Albert's deal, yeah the dealer may not be willing to deal as much as Abler wanted but I'm trying to find out where he is pricing wise right now.
If as I understand they're at $2k over invoice on a $50k BMW, how much more do they need tyo go down to make a deal?
I know he wants a better deal and dumping his TSX is his main concern. But if they don't want to pay top book (few if anyone pays top book or over book on trades) that's their decision.
Otherwise, yeah if Albert isn't happy with the results he should go to another dealer to see if the numbers will be same, better, or not doable.
I posted on one of my earlier posts: a local dealer that undercut everyone just closed their doors here locally. You can't just run a business on minimal margins these days. You won't last very long.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I know he wants a better deal and dumping his TSX is his main concern. But if they don't want to pay top book (few if anyone pays top book or over book on trades) that's their decision.
I am guessing the $2000 over invoice is not a special. BMW gives their dealers rebates on last years models when the new models come out. I imagine it is $2000 or $3000 dollars....so that makes $2000 over invoice more like $5000 over invoice.
I wouldn't expect a dealer to give a dollar value on a trade in over the phone (although they could say book value is but it could be worth more or less...depends, why don't you bring it on down) but I would expect them to inspect it and use some expertise to resell it. Like I said, we got $2000 more than I expected on my wife's MB station wagon because the dealer worked with an MB dealership who really wanted that car. These guys did next to nothing, don't even call back or try to come to some kind of deal. The only reason they are in business is because they have cars that are selling...it sure ain't the sales team
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No, yeah I see your point, and what I meant to say was $2k over invoice, plus Albert gets all the rebates ($3k?) therefore making it $1k under invoice.
But yeah, judging from what Albert wrote they seem unenthusiastic in making a deal. :sick:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Well, it was easy enough for you to tell me to go buy a car that I was just casually interested in wasn’t it? Now that the wrench is on a different nut, it ain’t so easy is it? :surprise:
Have I finally lost what little mind that I have left?
That’s not for me to say, but I’m wondering what you said when you left the dealership; I’ve got to sleep on it, pray on it you know how much they like hearing that stuff, so what did you say? :confuse:
When I was on vacation in Florida in 07’, I rented a Grand Marquis and I liked everything about it. Especially the softness of the leather seats. Yeah, you’ll like it.
Hope you’re feeling better.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You can't continue to sell below cost and survive, but you can't compete in a shrinking market without cutting your price. It's a tough call and it is getting worse. Auto industry needs more cash. GM burns through a billion $s a month, serious talk of GM and Chrysler having to merge - and all that will be left of Chrysler will be Jeep, trucks and mini-vans. It almost makes me want to buy an American car to help the industry survive.....come
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
boomcheck, I just wanted to comment on one thing you mentioned. I totally agree that they are entitled to offer what they believe the vehicle is worth to them, which in this case is what the wholesaler probably said. My only frustration was that they would not even offer a range over the phone knowing I was two hours away, and I had already been in to the salesroom, just with a different vehicle than my trade. I don't live in a densely populated area, so some of the more expensive dealerships are spread around. When I purchased the TSX, I traded in an A4 and was able to do the deal over the telephone. The Acura dealer said "I can give you X as long as it is in good shape. I take very good car of my car, and he honored the $14 and I purchased the TSX. Very smooth.
My hope was to get something similar from this dealership. I had asked for over book value, which I know is asking for a lot. However, they should have known without a doubt they would not offer that without me bringing the vehicle in.
We were currently at $16,500 for my trade and $3000 over invoice for the BMW. Last we spoke I asked for another $1500 and I would do the deal. They were supposed to get back to me, that was lunchtime yesterday and I have not heard a peep. When I do sell the TSX, I may simply purchase an 09 from another dealer. I will also mention they still have an 07 335i they have discounted $8000. I don't have hard feelings against the dealer, just confused more than anything. I would have expected the dealer to attempt to get creative with such a small range to make up to sell the vehicle. Couldn't they move the discount over to the trade to get big portion in taxes? (13% sales tax here).
As an update I had posted the vehicle locally this morning for $20,900 and have two appointments this weekend so wish me luck.
In general, and especially in this market, they should be the ones hounding you with calls to come back and do a deal.
Even when I get a customer with whom we're too far apart on a deal, I still call them the next day, even if I don't have a better deal, and ask them if there's any unanswered questions, if they changed their mind, or if there's anything I can do other than the price that would get them to come back in. I don't understand why that dealer is so nonchalant about a "hot" customer.
Maybe they don't take anything less than 3% profit (the $1500 you offered), or maybe the salesperson just doesn't care, I don't know.......
Out of curiosity, why did you choose this dealership 2 hours away, are they the closest to you?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
"Well, I know it sounds crazy because we have had these discussions before. I see where the '08 Grand Marquis has a $6,500 rebate. Yes, yes, I know it is the "old man's" car. Still, it drives and rides like a dream. With all of the bells and whistles, I can get it for $21,000 plus $9,000 for my "03 Explorer. This sounds really tempting. I mean we're only looking at $12,000 plus T&T. "
Verily you should do it. What beats bad times is panic sales and you might even shave a hair off the forementioned. Nothing beats panic for deals. Once the big two get congressional funding,Working will advise, they lack motivation to give away and rather wait it out.
So strike when the iron is hot and drive that comfortable old man or as the British would say oap car. PS, ask for your senior discount.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
selling a car at invoice on month end :sick:
ROFLMAO :P
Good one Jip
GP
MSRP.............$xxxxx.xx
Discount...........$xxxx.xx
Rebate............$xxxx.xx
Trade value........$xxxxx.xx
Total amount.... $xxxxxx.xx
I hear your frustration. But I do agree with Boomer....1) A dealership has a much better chance of selling you a vehicle if you are there! 2) it is the best and safest practice to value your trade in person.
It took me a long time to understand that myself eve after being in the business... Lets just say I said $15,000 for any old Mucker.... You say great and come down to the dealership.... When you get there and after I look at it, it has some issues what ever they may be, but now I think it is really worth $12,000.... Ye know what happens.... I painted myself into a corner. Because no matter what you get to say "You told me it is worth $15,000 on the phone and that is what I want!"
Here's another scenario.... I tell you $12,000 on the phone because I am not evaluating your trade because I am not looking at it I am just giving numbers over the phone.... You go somewhere else and they look at it and give you$15,000.... It can go both ways. That is why it is the fairest way to have the dealer look at it. The issue with your trade is there may not be that many buyers for that vehicle in that area... I don't know
I wish you the best of luck selling your car.
GP
GP, Many people just want a ball park figure to see if it is even worth looking into.
This is all very true, and I am the last one to make a promise over the phone, but I think a sales person could say, "value of your car is somewhere between 12k to 18k but it can be more or less depending on condition and demand, it's best to bring it in and we'll take a look and do the best we can ". This is probably BS anyway because most dealers want their expert appraiser to do it, then the appraiser is the bad guy and the sales person is still on your side. That's why I liked slimy Andy with the cigar. He got on the phone and called his buddies at the used car dealerships and they paid more. They don't have wheeler dealers like Andy too often these days.
My guess is that this BMW dealership is a family business and they have the attitude that they hold the cards, their business is based on the principle that we have to make full profit on every car, sales people are laid back because they are on the family payroll, no one can make a decision or take a chance because daddy will get very mad :mad:
Also, GP, I am only guessing that there is a factory rebate for a one year old model (I don't think Albert actually ever mentioned special rebates). This what BMW wisely does at the end of the year.
Rebate............$xxxx.xx
If you trade fairly often you might actually get a better deal on a new 09 model.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
greanpea, here are the exact numbers:
MSRP.............$53,050
Discount...........$2300
Factory Rebate (delivery credit)............$4990
Trade value........$16500
Admin fee $400
Freight+PDI $1995
Total amount.... $31655
Taxes: 4115.15
OTD: 35770.15
So would you guys let that customer walk out the door when he drove two hours to see you with his spare tires in the backseat and his cheque book on the backseat in clear view? I figured the 'NOW' factor would allow us to make a deal.
53050 - 48245 + $400 (admin fee) - 2300 (discount) = $2905. 6% seems like a lot for end of the year to be their bottom line.
I told them I would do it for another $1500 which leaves them at $1405 or roughly 3%, is that not reasonable for a BMW dealership even at the end of the year?
To Jipster: Thanks for snapping me back to reality. I'll have to erase those demerits by doing some "brain surgery" for the Team Jipster.
To Houtini1: You're right. I'm getting lazy in my old age. A black car is beautiful when it is clean, but you must clean it every other day. I guess that I could just go to the local car wash three times a week at $16 a pop---wow! That's $48 per week or $192 per month. Not a good plan. Not only am I lazy, but I'm insane. I paid the yard man $40 today to trim the shrubbery on the front of the house and blow off the driveway! Even HE was amazed that I was willing to pay that much.
To jescue and fezo: I love that remark about the coach lights. It cracked me up! Yep. The coach lights and the gold package would fix that car right up.
To Jmonroe: You wanted to know what I told the salesman when I left the lot. I hope you're sitting down. Though it was the absolute truth, it was one of those old excuses. I told him that the wife would have to see it before we could complete the deal. How bad was that?! He was very nice about it, but as I walked to my Explorer, I could feel his eyes just rolling around.
To my white car advocate: The Grand Marquis in white just doesn't have the personality that a black one has.
The wife will join me on the lot today to put in her two cents. Believe me, it will be more than two cents worth---more like a dollar's worth.
Richard
I have had similar remarks or eye rolls made when I say I have to let my wife see it first. They treat you like a whimp because you want your wife to see it before you lay down half a years pay on a car :sick: Well, there not there when the fighting begins if you buy it and take it home without pre-authorization.
One lady that works for us had a new car bought for her...by her husband. It was a nice birthday present and it is a nice car, but I get the feeling she would have been much happier if she could have picked it out - at least the color!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
We were looking for a larger car as my wife takes freqent trips to visit her mother on the weekends, and wanted extra cargo room. I researched the Grand Marquis and really liked what I read . It never got to the point of a test drive though, as my wife had her heart set on a minivan.
Good luck today with your car shopping... sounds like a very good deal.
I love black cars but my late father always said he wanted to get every color of car except black - because that would be the color of the last car he would ride in.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree that it doesn't sound like they are working real hard. I wonder if they overallowed on the trade? Perhaps the market is super soft on TSX's. I don't know the exact miles, condition and year, but that could be a reason. I know you saw some being listed at mid $20k's, but that's just the asking price.
At any rate, you don't feel good about it. You've given them what appears to be a very fair offer. I would find another dealer or find another car. Actually, just find another dealer. I like those 3 series.
From what I have read, the dealer was heavily involved in "Real Estate' and evidently, he lost $$ in that area. (Which, when times were good) helped carry the dealership.
"
I did speak to my manager yesterday and he was able to get another $500 for your trade (making it $17,000). Not sure if that will help or if you have any takers on a private sale but please let me know.
"
I get the impression they were banking on me coming back to make the deal and after a couple of days of silence thought better of it.
I know I'm not allowed to advertise here......but here are the particulars....
'96 GM LS....all loaded up including leather.
35,000 original one owner miles
It needs absolutely nothing. Never been wrecked or had any body work done on it whatsoever. Paint is really good. As is the interior.
Probably the best "under $5,000" car that can be bought.
Yeh, I'd let them try a little harder to get more for the trade in. I think their price on the new car is reasonable, that's the deal across Canada right now as advertised in the Globe n Mail. Then they are taking off standard $2500 on their own. It is the Trade in that's the problem. At $18,000 it might be worthwhile....especially not trying to sell it to idiots that will have to deal with privately and the matter of difference in tax. On the other hand, if you sell it privately for more within a week, you might be better off, especially if they will do a Courtesy Sale for you....and you save the difference in taxes.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
35,000 original one owner miles
It needs absolutely nothing. Never been wrecked or had any body work done on it whatsoever. Paint is really good. As is the interior.
Probably the best "under $5,000" car that can be bought.
Sounds pretty good gg, thanks.
Even though my Buick Regal is starting to show it's age (turns 10 years old this Dec. 31, leather starting to crack, 3 dings from numbskulls who can't park), I'm going to try to squeeze another year or two out of her. I'll have close to 100,000 miles on it by then. Doubt I'll go new... maybe 3 or 4 years old. Though the type of car you are offering would be very tempting as well.
Now, there's 4 cars (including the GM) sitting in the driveway for 2 drivers.
I haven't tried too hard to sell it, though. There's something about those big body on frame cars that offer a ride that can't be duplicated. Steering is overboosted. You aren't going to take it to a rally course. But, put it on the highway on a long trip, ain't nothing better. I took it on a "min' road trip to Chicago recently. Only a 5 hour drive for me, but it got 28 MPG to boot.
I wouldn't hesitate to take it cross country if the need arises.
While I don't see me in the new car showrooms anytime soon, I don't think there's a whole lot of people who are thinking any differently than you. Drive'em till they drop, then find another (used) car to do the same thing with.
Think I mentioned that I had a friend who was in the market for a Mustang Shelby. He looked and looked. Most dealers were trying to hold to above MSRP. He just scored one last week. He found one that was at a Mom and Pop Ford store about 2 hours away. It had been sitting on the show room floor since February. It had "flat spots" on the tires it had been sitting so long. Dealer agreed to replace the tires. But, he got it for $500 over invoice.
Winter is just around the corner. He can't drive it much between now and next Spring. So, he also bought one of their '08 F150s for $11K off MSRP.
He just dropped $60K+ on two vehicles. He said he got a good deal. In today's climate, I think that's crazy.
This vehicle was leased and I have 6 payments remaining. The $20K gets me out at basically even within a few hundred bucks.
If they're giving you $17k for it, then you need to come up with $3k to get out of it,. Plus there is no equity in the car to lower the bottom line on the BMW.
I am missing something here. :confuse: Either your car is totally paid off and you have $17k of equity in it, or you're planning to pay off $20k to Acura, and use the TSX as a downpayment.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
How in the world can you use a leased car as a trade-in??? There is no equity built-in for the consumer.
It's no different than the negative equity you might have, trading a lease in early..
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that is the case when your vehicle has actually appreciated or you plunked down a large down-payment and therefore owe less than the market value. Got it!
Moo, he lives in Canada so it is worth at least 20% more in Cdn $$$$s.
Moo, you're spending too much time on "How My Salesman Misled Me", so try to keep current - he said he was from Canada :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Traded out of an Accord lease, twice.. and, came out slightly ahead, each time. And, both leases were done with no cap cost reduction.
If more banks used realistic residuals (which is starting to happen), it wouldn't be such a rare occurrence. Of course, negotiating a low selling price helps a lot, too..
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Albert's 05 TSX would retail for low $20s, meaning a dealer would pay high teens for one. A customer could probasbly buy one for $20k off a dealer's lot.
Looking at Auto Trader there are some TSXs that reatil for mid $20s ($25k, $26k), but who cares if they're sitting on the lot for months and nobody is interested in them at that price.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I gave them new payments (up by about $35/month) and they said they'd think about it. They called me back trhe same day asking me about a more loaded model.
I gave them even higher payments and they wewre pretty excited about it (better value, way more stuff for another $20/month).
They call me today and say they need to put it off, as it's too much. I asked them toomuch by how much?
They said just too much in general and buying a new truck is not possible for them right now (they have very good credit etc...).
I ask them if the deal would be same a slast months' would they still consider it? They'd say not for at least 6 months. :confuse:
What I don't understand is, as we touched on this topic before in this Forum, if you know you're not ready to buy a new vehicle, why would you be out shopping, and wasting everyone's time only to say at the end that you can't afford ANY car at all. :confuse:
Don't people kinda figure out their budget BEFORE they get into this? :mad: Frustrating sometimes as we spent a lot of time on this deal........
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Sorry, I'm getting some good tips over there. I'll do better at my reading comprehension instead of skimming.
Canada actually makes a lot more sense. The number seemed high.
This is so you don't feel all alone. I am getting A LOT of this right now. People come by, tell me what they want to spend, test drive and then tell me they need to weigh their options. After a couple days, I follow up and they tell me that they are no longer in the market due to the economy or some such.
I would love to know what is going through their mind, but I suppose I never will. Why would you do all that work and then suddenly have a realization that the market is in flux. I don't get it.
At any rate, I keep shaking hands, replying to leads and answering phones. I'm not going down without a fight.
It's like going to a grocery store, and loading up the shopping cart with groceries, spending an hour doing so, and then after the items are scanned at the checkoout you decide that you don't really need the groceries, and you can live on the food you have at home for another 3 weeks until you have more money, and walk away :confuse:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX