they tell me that they are no longer in the market due to the economy or some such.
From the salesman's perspective (there's that word again) he wonders why people come in and shop, and then decide they can't afford it.
From the customers perspective, my emotions are telling me I NEED a new car, maybe I can swing it because they are probably giving them away....then the reality hits; *the cost is higher than expected *my trade in isn't worth as much as I thought *house prices are down as well as the stock market - maybe I don't have as much money as I thought I had, *my neighbor lost his job, maybe I'll be next, *what is better, a new car in the drive or sleeping at night not worrying about how it will get paid off,
So, I guess they get a shot of reality once the dreaming is over. No one is at fault, and there are people who take their groceries up and when the final amount is added up, they leave behind 4 items because they don't have the money on them, and I am usually the one behind them :sick:
boom...I empathize with you, and the rest of the people in the car sales profession. I'm only guessing here, but I'd say people wake up confident one morning, thinking they're going to buy a car. But, the next day, they talk to their broker, read the newspaper, and all of a sudden don't feel so good about pulling the trigger on a deal.
I don't think the vast majority of people actually NEED a new car. Up until this point, they probably bought because they WANTED a new car. Reading the headlines posted regarding the liquidity of GM (due to run out by the end of the year), the continued massive losses at Ford, even Toyota seeing a huge drop off, I'd think people are content to stay with what they've got. That kind of news kind of snow balls.
Some are looking at Christmas bills coming up. And, all of a sudden the equation tips more towards "what I need" as opposed to "what I want".
I'm an optimist, however. There are some silver linings. As bad as gas prices were this past summer, I'm now paying less than half of what I was spending then. That's probably less than I was actually spending two years ago, IIRC.
There's a real concern, not with inflation, but with deflation right now. Certainly, that's true in the car biz if I'm gauging correctly. The money has to flow at some point. It's not like there are fewer people around. There's just fewer people buying.
As we all know, these down periods are usually followed up by a period of "boom" periods.
I'm sure this does happen, but let's take a recent example. They told me exactly what they were looking to spend, no trade, cash deal. I found them exactly what they wanted, invited them in for a test drive on the vehicle and then they said they wanted to think about, weigh their options. No return call or e-mail the first couple of days. When I finally got an e-mail back after 4 days, he tells me that when the time is right they will move forward. Now is not the right time.
........
Before I spent $50k, I would have a pretty good idea if it was something I wanted to do. But, whatever....
Oh guys, what an afternoon. I'll never be able to show my face at this dealership again. I took Her Majesty to see the car. As we drive up, the nice salesman comes out to greet us. After introductions, we walk over to the car. The wife immediately takes the conversation in hand with the following remarks:
1. Why do we need a gas hog like this? (Though sticker says 24 mpg on hwy) 2. Why did you fix up the Explorer if you weren't going to keep it? 3. With the economy the way it is, we don't need to pull out money for a new car. 4. It looks like a funeral home car to me. 5. When we trade again, I want a CRV. I thought that you knew that.
I pushed for her to take a test drive. She wasn't interested. After about ten minutes, I apologized to the salesman for wasting his time. He gave me one of those looks which said, "I know who the boss is in that house."
I forgot a very valuable lesson that I learned years ago. After you do your car research, you need to negotiate at home before negotiating at the dealership. :sick:
Oh guys, what an afternoon. I'll never be able to show my face at this dealership again.
Well Richard, it made a great story. I once heard that at least when you have a bad experience at least you usually get a good story out of it. You deserve a lot of credit too for your telling of it too. Better go and check out CRV's. Another dream shattered - cruisin the highways with a big cigar in your all black Marquis
Before I spent $50k, I would have a pretty good idea if it was something I wanted to do. But, whatever....
Remember too, the guy who has a few hundred thou in the bank and was getting 10% profit a year has seen his original nest egg down about a third or a half, way less income from investments, and if he withdraws money now it will never get a chance to increase again. What an economic mess.
People don't put this together until they actually crunch numbers and figure out how they are going to pay for the NEW CAR.
1. Why do we need a gas hog like this? (Though sticker says 24 mpg on hwy) Doesn't the Explorer gets worse mileage? You'll actually be saving money on gas.
2. Why did you fix up the Explorer if you weren't going to keep it? So you could get a higher trade in value for it, of course.
3. With the economy the way it is, we don't need to pull out money for a new car. If you've got enough socked away for a comfortable life, why not indulge yourself?
4. It looks like a funeral home car to me. Perhaps you could rent it out to local funeral homes - hey, extra income!
5. When we trade again, I want a CRV. I thought that you knew that. Doesn't she drive the Sebring? Or is the Explorer "her" car? If it is, then oh well; 4 out of 5 isn't bad.
I agree that it doesn't sound like they are working real hard. I wonder if they overallowed on the trade? Perhaps the market is super soft on TSX's. I don't know the exact miles, condition and year, but that could be a reason. I know you saw some being listed at mid $20k's, but that's just the asking price.
I have to agree with Moo....
I would have to see the car to see if you were recieving enough for your trade?! Is there anyway you could drive it down to Boston so I could take a look at it?
I get the impression they were banking on me coming back to make the deal and after a couple of days of silence thought better of it.
I would have to say yes they were expecting you to go back and make the deal. Why wouldn't a salesperson think that?
I also think they are offering you $500 more to make the deal. You are obviously a person who does research on your decisions. You are a informed buyer. If was in there shoes and I wanted to make a deal I would be emailing and sending the same message.
Did you say you started this search for a new vehicle at the end of October or the beginning of this month?
k wrote: " It's a new color - Geriatric Snow. $200 off if your hair color matches the vehicle color. "
So that explains why I've seen GS on so many auto models ! Thanks for the elucidation. So LS would be the Lipitor Snow ? I might add automatic always. If you choose the Viva Viagra option then a stick shift becomes confusing.
>I don't think the vast majority of people actually NEED a new car. Up until this point, they probably bought because they WANTED a new car. ...
>Some are looking at Christmas bills coming up. And, all of a sudden the equation tips more towards "what I need" as opposed to "what I want".
I think we're going to see a lot more shock-tightening of purse strings than many expected to see with Christmas coming up and lots of jobs being cut. It's going toget much harder to sell things people don't "need" like a car if it's not a "have to buy" situation.
Lots of cities and counties are cutting back and people who thought their jobs were fairly safe are being laid off because of loss of income for the cities' overspending. I see lots of months of lower spending just like in the old recessions.
gg wrote: "I'm only guessing here, but I'd say people wake up confident one morning, thinking they're going to buy a car. But, the next day, they talk to their broker, read the newspaper, and all of a sudden don't feel so good about pulling the trigger on a deal. " Another great post gg, as per usual. Recessions are truly evil, consumers don't buy because they believe prices will go lower and manufacturers cut production because they believe consumers won't buy leading to layoffs which reinforces the cycle and so on. Inflation though not good at least means a healthy economy. Not being in car sales also but in sales, I express my honest beliefs. Imho, this is a great time to buy a car/truck.Though the economy may get weaker before turning, the buyer has the fear factor to extract an exceptionally great deal.Negotiate your best deal. Then extract a tad more. Let it go to the sales manager. You won't walk out with out a new vehicle at historic low levels. Slip your salesman some cash on the way out for being your advocate. The good ones that I have seen here will pay you back with vip service, advising you when to buy, no come back in November, xxx will have this deal going on and telling you when not to buy. The models changing in '12, wait till then. As always, don't disrespect honesty when it is presented. You need a new car when the age of your present vehicle suggests that your outlay on repairs will not be recouped by waiting . In every vehicle life there is a " sweetspot " where trade in vs. holding makes more sense.
imadazol97 wrote : " Lots of cities and counties are cutting back and people who thought their jobs were fairly safe are being laid off because of loss of income for the cities' overspending. I see lots of months of lower spending just like in the old recessions. "
I agree completely. Months not years or multi years. Third or fourth quarter of '09 , the greater the punishment taken upfront, the lesser on the backside. Hard to imagine more taken up front. Hedge funds have been de-leveraging, dumping muni's as they have unwound their unprofitable mortgage spreads. Some such as Jefferson Co, Al have made truly dumb decisions and will pay the consequences. Others are merely victims of the crunch and those that buy at 40% over treasuries will be rewarded. Non technical explanation to the board. Anyone expect tax rates to go down? Cities that have over spent will be punished. Talking Heads: As was it ever was. As was it ever was.
Being married THAT many years, I'm really surprised he didn't see it coming. I wonder what would've happened if he first bought the car and brought it home without the consultation part. :surprise:
I wonder what would've happened if he first bought the car and brought it home without the consultation part.
My friend's wife's car broke down one day. She walked across the road and bought a new car on the spot (Plymouth Sundance). Shortly after she became the ex-wife or as he says, "The Hex".
I took a hiatus from SFTSF to get my home back in order. But, had some sales stories I ran across in the interim.
Took the Merc GM to get it detailed last week. Washed, waxed, shampooed....did the full boat.
Anyway, while all this was happening, I struck up a conversation with the guy who owns the place as I have him detail my corral of cars twice/year. This guy has been in business for a pretty long while. As such, he runs across all sorts of cars people are trying to unload their cars, and they come to him to get them "pretty".
He relayed a story to me about a local businessman who had an '04 Lexus LS that he bought new. Guy was trying to sell it to get (moo you'll appreciate this) a new 911. The guy who owns the detail place says he might be interested in buying the LS. I don't know what an '04 LS is worth, but they settled on a price of $24K.
Come to find out the guy didn't actually own the car....it was a lease. As such, it was going to take an extra $14K out of the owner's pocket to make the deal. That deal went south real fast.
You'd think that the LS owner, supposedly a successful businessman, would know he was going to be upside down by a substantial amount. That begged the question...."how long did he actually least the car for?......how can you possibly be upside down that amount after 4 years?"
But, it's a little bit of "trickle down" economics. Lexus as a no sale. But, that meant the 911 sitting at the Porsche dealer was also a "no sale".
Another one.....after getting the GM all pretty, I put a 4 sale sign in it. Taped the original MSRP sticker in the window, together with the CARFAX report. Got a call last night from someone who had seen it. I'm asking $4,500 for it. Clearly states that on the sign.
Guy agrees to buy it for that amount. He begins writing a personal check. I tell him I prefer a money order or a cashier's check, otherwise I'd have to keep possession of the car until his check clears. He starts doing the back pedaling and asks me if I'd accept 11-$400 monthly payments with $100 cash down payment.
Good thing you didn't accept the check. You know it would have bounced. Hence the monthly payment offer. :mad:
I frequently run ads with "easy approval" lines and so on. A week ago a guy calls me and wants to borrow some money.
He tells me some sotry how he's fighting with his injury compensation board, and will be back at work soon, and he's got a van he can use as a collateral (although he'd need to keep it to get to work).
GP....no doubt in my mind that the check would have been rubber. On top of that, I'd say after I signed the title over to him, I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that the car, with him in it, would have been in another state before the ink dried.
Whenever I sell a car privately I always get their info, copy their driver's license on my printer/scanner/copier, and sign a one page contract, in case anything goes sour. And I always take cash or bank draft.
Personal checks these days are almost meaningless....
I just think it's a good idea. I never misrepresent the cars I sold privately, and so that idiots who feel the world owes them something don't come back a week later asking for money back or whatever.
Here's a short story from a private computer sale frontline
I bought a new computer 2 months ago and advertised my old one for sale for $60 on craigslist.
My old one still worked well, had original Windows XP with the original CD, decent speed (2GHz, 80gb HD, 512MB Ram, video card, 19" CRT monitor, etc.... It was just too slow for many new programs and games that I use.. Good for office stuff, web surfing , had no problems.
Some guy called me and try to bargain on the price. When I told him that it won't run new high memory programs well, he tried to tell me that there's problems with it. After bargaining down to $40 (over the phone) he wanted me to give him warranty for it. I yelled at him that it's a used computer for $60 bucks!!!! :mad: "If you want warranty, go buy a new one for $1000!!!"
Nevertheless he calls me a few days later and wants to come over and try out his memory chips to see if they're compatible, and he wanted to try installing his programs to se if they work etc.....basically wasting my time. I told him the price is now $60 cause somebody is coming by to buy it for that much (3 people called). He got upset and said I must sell it to him for $40 cause I told him that a few days earlier. I said: " I can sell it to whoever I want for as much as I want. Unless you were here with cash in hand in person, as far as I'm concerned there's no deal. For all I know you could have bought something else, as I haven't heard from you for 4 days. I am supposed to hold onto my items until your royal highness decides to do me a favor and buy my computer a week later? You snooze you lose buddy..."
He finally said ok to the $60 but thankfully another fella called and came by 5 minutes before the idiot, and bought it for $60 no questions asked, no time wasting.
I just can't believe some people act like everyone owes them something. I'm glad I sold the pc to someone more level headed.
"Being married THAT many years, I'm really surprised he didn't see it coming."
I guess that's what keeps marriage interesting after 41 years. You never know what is around the corner. In this case, I managed to find out last night. The wife was basically worried about the economic future. You first have to understand that she never takes care of the books at our house. I do the budget each month, balance the checkbook, take care of the investments, etc. While I know what we can afford, she doesn't. She buys the groceries and goes to the beauty shop. That's about it.
In fact, I purchased the Explorer 5 years ago by myself. She simply said, "Pick out a pretty color for us." She drives it and I drive the convertible as a rule. I think that all of the bad news about the stock market, etc. has her spooked. I assured her last night that after both of us worked for forty years, that we are in good shape. She knows that I am pretty frugal with a penny. This experience turned out to be a good thing. I showed her our monthly budget, our investments, our pension plans, etc. She really needs to know this in case I reach the car lot in the sky before she does. She said that if I really wanted the Mercury GM, it was clear with her.
To Michael: You had excellent responses to her complaints. I pointed them out to her, especially the mpg of the Explorer as compared to the GM. Thanks for the tips.
To those who have not been married as long as I have: There is no purchase worth discord in the home. Both parties need to be on the same page with a little give and take. That's what makes marriage work. Just my opinion.
Now. What about the car deal? I really don't know. :confuse:
"I don't think that the vast majority of people actually NEED a new car."
I have to agree with that statement. If I had the furnished apartment and the one nice used car that we started out with 41 years ago, I could be satisfied and pretty happy. It's like many people are just programmed to add purchases to their lives once they get married and start a family. For the next 3 or 4 years, we may see a change in that attitude. Young couples today are having to really stretch those dollars. New furniture, cars, large homes, etc. may come more slowly to them and with more thought and planning. That part may be a good thing.
In the mean time, my heart goes out to the car salesmen here. This is certainly not an easy time for you, or your families.
>Before I spent $50k, I would have a pretty good idea if it was something I wanted to do. But, whatever....
Not exactly. People in general start shopping when they are expecting money to come in, say from a parents will or a jump in sales in their business or in anticipation of a raise in salary. But if it does not come in or the prospects of coming in start looking bleak, then they start getting cold feet for their purchases.
Don't blame the consumer. If people only went to the market to buy IF they had cash in the pocket, your sales would be less than half.
advertised my old one for sale for $60 on craigslist. My old one still worked well, had original Windows XP with the original CD, decent speed (2GHz, 80gb HD, 512MB Ram
Hey, Boom, do you still have another one of those computers, I'll give you 60 bucks cash!
Once a neighbor was selling his car with an ad in the paper...very good price, almost no miles on it. Another neighbor went and asked a few questions, said he was interested but wanted to think about it. Someone else came and wrote a cheque out right away. The neighbor that was interested was yelling and screaming and cursing the very old man selling the car. I had to tell him, all he needed was a downpayment to hold it...can't expect someone to wait until he decides. :mad:
Now. What about the car deal? I really don't know.
Keeping peace at home is Job 1.
But really, you will have a great new car for less than $1500 a year and it will be reliable. The old Explorer can blow up anytime soon too. Also, Ford might not be around when you are ready to buy
19 out of 20 ain’t bad but it isn’t good enough. :mad:
I dropped off my 05’ XG 350 this morning for a tire rotation and balancing as part of my tire purchase agreement last November. I also got an oil change while I was there. Before I left the parking lot I checked ALL of the lug nuts to insure I was satisfied with how they were put on. Most of them were so tight I could barely break them lose but I managed. About 4 were much loser than I would have tightened them and 1 was so tight I couldn’t break it lose. So, I go back into the office and tell the guy at the desk about it and he said, “what did you do, check it with a torque wrench”? I said, “no, I was trying to get them OFF; you guys are the ones that put them on, remember”? :confuse: He then said, “Oh, we’ll take care of that but what are you trying to get them off with, those wrenches that come with cars are a POS”. I said, “I know, that’s why I carry a quality 20 inch 4-way in my trunk”. They immediately send a guy out armed with a 2 foot breaker bar and 13/16 impact socket like I recommended.
Everything is fine now but what would I have done with that right rear tire if I was on the road and had a flat? No need to answer this rhetorical question but that’s why I always check lug nuts when someone other than me touches them. I’d be willing to bet that if most people checked theirs, they would find the same thing as I did.
FWIW, I asked for 10W-30 oil but how can I prove that’s what was used? That’s why I usually do oil changes myself but I still had 2 oil change/filter coupons from when I bought a coupon book of 5 about 10 years ago and decided to use one of them.
Interesting thing on the bottom of my receipt, in big bold letters, were the words “SAFETY COMES FIRST”. I believe that but I also believe that you have to insure that for yourself.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Sorry driver, the computer is sold. I would have kept it as it was decent, but I just have no room for it. Our apt is small. As for the nieighbour, yeah, if you want it buy it, don't make somebody wait for your indecisiveness.
Some people are unreasonable. I gotta put my life on hold cause you want to think about buying something but won't give me a commitment. :confuse:
When I was moving a year ago I put a FREE ad on craigslit for VHS movies -recent titles, about 30 of them for free.
A fella called and said he wanted to "have a movie night". I said "good for you, when can you come and pick up your FREE movies" He said it's kinda far to drive (not very far - only 15 minutes from where he was) and asked me to deliver it to him, I told him to get lost. He calls back later and asks if I can meet him half way. I told him no. Finally when he decided to call back and said he'll pick them up (a couple days later) somebody else already took them. I was happy I gave them to someone that appreciated them.
I took a hiatus from SFTSF to get my home back in order.
I hope it’s back to the way it was. It sounded like you had a real mess on your hands.
I decline and suggest he find a good BHPH lot.
Did it really have to be a “good” one?
$4500 for that prettyed-up Grand Marquis sounds like a good deal for some old fart. Have you given any thought about hooking up with Richard? I think all you have to do is give him 9K for his Explorer and you’ll have a deal.
How is the job thing going?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I bought a new set of tires some years ago from Montgomery Ward. About half the lug nuts fell off before I could get home. Seriously. They could have cared less.
You have to be careful with lug nuts. You can also get them too tight. If they are over tightened they will stretch and weaken the bolt giving it a tendency to break off. Not a good thing.
FREE movies" He said it's kinda far to drive (not very far - only 15 minutes from where he was) and asked me to deliver it to him, I told him to get lost. He calls back later and asks if I can meet him half way
Love it, surprised he didn't ask you to bring over an old VCR for him to use!
A fella called and said he wanted to "have a movie night". I said "good for you, when can you come and pick up your FREE movies" He said it's kinda far to drive (not very far - only 15 minutes from where he was) and asked me to deliver it to him
Exact same thing happened too me when I was giving some stuff away by running a Craigslist ad. It blew me away. And you were way to nice with the guy who was a [non-permissible content removed] about the $60 computer.
About half the lug nuts fell off before I could get home.
Geez, you ought to be the poster child (no pun intended) for checking lug nuts.
If they are over tightened they will stretch and weaken the bolt giving it a tendency to break off. Not a good thing.
That is very true and unless you use a torque wrench (which I have) you can over tighten them with a lug wrench. The torque spec for most cars is around 90 ft. lbs., at least it is for the cars I’ve owned. However, I tighten my lug nuts with my trusty 20 inch 4-way and it usually turns out to be a little more than 90 ft. lbs. but not by much (it’s a feel thing and I’m satisfied) but the important thing is I’ve never had any problems. I’m not totally anal about this but I am paranoid.
The last couple of times I’ve gone to NTB, I’ve noticed that they use a torque wrench for the final tightening after using their pneumatic lug tool set to a low torque to speed up the process of installing all those lug nuts and I’m comfortable with that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That's what happens when you're trying to be too nice.... if you're not careful people will walk all over you.
You give away free stuff and they'll want even more :mad:
But yeah, the $60 computer, I mean I would have rather donated it than sell it to some idiot who'd bug me about it daily for next 3 months.
Oh well......
Decent day today... sold a base Challenger to a guy who called me yesterday. He drove an hour to our dealer because the local dealer tried to bump him $2000 when he went there so he was a bit choked. I gave him a straight up price over the phone, he came, he saw, he test drive, he was happy, and we did a deal. 30 minutes, no fuss.
Years ago I had a 69 Volvo. Had the local knucklehead mechanic (this episode is how I discovered what a knucklehead he was) take off the snow tires and put the regulars back on. Months later, when I actually had to do something with a wheel, I find out he replaced the metric nuts with standard ones, stripping all the threads. Had to get someone else to retap the lugs. Gak!
Meanwhile, I had another episode of eye assault on the road today while heading up to the Rutgers football game. Some guy in a two generation ago Hyundai Sonata with a cloth top and fake portholes. I'm still recovering. MAybe Richard could use these idea when he buys the GM....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Thanks j.....moved back in 10 days ago. Still smells like "new paint". I acted as my own general contractor. That was a real learning experience. Remodeling subcontractors are a different breed, with seemingly no sense of what punctuality means. Some I had to watch like a hawk. Others were efficient and trustworthy.
Still, glad to be in my own home, in my own bed. Living out of a hotel/motel for an extended period got real old, real fast. Had to wrestle with the insurance adjuster a bit. But, they came through in the end.
It's hard to put a number on a 12 year old Grand Marquis with teeny miles and no need of anything as far as reconditioning. I've had a few offers. One person showed me the "EDMUNDS" printout and offered me $3,000. I declined and asked him to let me know when he finds another car, in immaculate condition, with tiny miles on it for less than $5K. Best legit offer I've had was $3,750.....all cash deal.
I'm going to hold out for another couple of weeks to see if I can hit the $4,500 mark.
As the pros will say, "it's worth what someone else is willing to pay".
I told my Mother that I may just keep it. Not because I need it. But, for sentimental value. I doubt it's going to appreciate, that's for sure. She doesn't drive any more. I'd hate to see it just sit and rot.
Took it to one LM dealer. They offered me $2,300 for it....straight up sale. Saw a couple of new ones. These beasts have barely changed. Gauges are a little different. Trim a bit different. But, really that's about it.
I've been tooling around in it. As maligned as these cars are, they're a nice drive. Quality of the materials are a step above most anything else. They aren't sports cars. But, what they do (smooth, quiet, easy drive), they do well.
I've quit going to those "quicky lube" places for the very reasons you ran across. You ask for something like 5W30. I had one place use 10W30. They tried to convince me that the label on the oil hose was wrong. I finally made them re-drain, and re-fill it with the correct weight. They weren't real pleased over that.
Still, even if you take it to the dealership, where you can't see what they're doing, you have to wonder.......
explorer.....give me $5K for it and I'll paint it any color you want.
This particular one is white with grey leather.
j....forgot to answer your question about the job. I've had a couple of offers. But, either my ego, or just the general malaise in the economy, I felt they were weak offers. I figure that if I take a 30% pay cut from what I was making before may make me less than dedicated.
Right now, I'm doing contract work. More specifically, I'm putting marketing plans in place for companies (usually small ones) who want a strategy to get their products on equal footing with some of the big guys, but can't afford a full time "cracker jack" marketing person. The down side, I'm still not making what I was before. The upside is I get to spend my time the way I see fit. I get to pick and choose what I will, and what I won't do. At least I feel like I've got some semblance of control.
I'm doing a lot of hustling, that's for sure. I'm always looking for that next company who's willing to plunk down money for what I do. It's a one man band type of thing....I'm selling. I'm writing marketing plans. I'm answering the phone. I'm sending out invoices. And, I'm trying to collect on those invoices.....kind of walking the fine line between being a collections person, all the while not crossing the line because I want more work from the slow payers.
Enough of that.......in my parents household, my Mother was a Cadillac person. My late Father was a Lincoln person. I remember when my Father bought the Grand Marquis. He was appalled at what a new Lincoln cost (IIRC, they were in the low $30s at the time). He drove the Grand Marquis (I've still got the original MSRP....$25K and change). Decided that there was very little difference in the way it drove compared to the Lincoln (he was right). Bought it and pocketed the difference.
I don't even think Lincoln Town Cars are made anymore. But, you can still score a Grand Marquis.
Comments
From the salesman's perspective (there's that word again) he wonders why people come in and shop, and then decide they can't afford it.
From the customers perspective, my emotions are telling me I NEED a new car, maybe I can swing it because they are probably giving them away....then the reality hits;
*the cost is higher than expected
*my trade in isn't worth as much as I thought
*house prices are down as well as the stock market - maybe I don't have as much money as I thought I had,
*my neighbor lost his job, maybe I'll be next,
*what is better, a new car in the drive or sleeping at night not worrying about how it will get paid off,
So, I guess they get a shot of reality once the dreaming is over. No one is at fault, and there are people who take their groceries up and when the final amount is added up, they leave behind 4 items because they don't have the money on them, and I am usually the one behind them :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't think the vast majority of people actually NEED a new car. Up until this point, they probably bought because they WANTED a new car. Reading the headlines posted regarding the liquidity of GM (due to run out by the end of the year), the continued massive losses at Ford, even Toyota seeing a huge drop off, I'd think people are content to stay with what they've got. That kind of news kind of snow balls.
Some are looking at Christmas bills coming up. And, all of a sudden the equation tips more towards "what I need" as opposed to "what I want".
I'm an optimist, however. There are some silver linings. As bad as gas prices were this past summer, I'm now paying less than half of what I was spending then. That's probably less than I was actually spending two years ago, IIRC.
There's a real concern, not with inflation, but with deflation right now. Certainly, that's true in the car biz if I'm gauging correctly. The money has to flow at some point. It's not like there are fewer people around. There's just fewer people buying.
As we all know, these down periods are usually followed up by a period of "boom" periods.
........
Before I spent $50k, I would have a pretty good idea if it was something I wanted to do. But, whatever....
1. Why do we need a gas hog like this? (Though sticker says 24 mpg on hwy)
2. Why did you fix up the Explorer if you weren't going to keep it?
3. With the economy the way it is, we don't need to pull out money for a new car.
4. It looks like a funeral home car to me.
5. When we trade again, I want a CRV. I thought that you knew that.
I pushed for her to take a test drive. She wasn't interested. After about ten minutes, I apologized to the salesman for wasting his time. He gave me one of those looks which said, "I know who the boss is in that house."
I forgot a very valuable lesson that I learned years ago. After you do your car research, you need to negotiate at home before negotiating at the dealership.
No GM for me.
Richard
GG, Perfect answer....couldn't have said it better myself.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Exactly..... but as others have said we might be seeing a bit more of this..... waffle type customers...
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Well Richard, it made a great story. I once heard that at least when you have a bad experience at least you usually get a good story out of it.
You deserve a lot of credit too for your telling of it too.
Better go and check out CRV's.
Another dream shattered - cruisin the highways with a big cigar in your all black Marquis
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Remember too, the guy who has a few hundred thou in the bank and was getting 10% profit a year has seen his original nest egg down about a third or a half, way less income from investments, and if he withdraws money now it will never get a chance to increase again. What an economic mess.
People don't put this together until they actually crunch numbers and figure out how they are going to pay for the NEW CAR.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Doesn't the Explorer gets worse mileage? You'll actually be saving money on gas.
2. Why did you fix up the Explorer if you weren't going to keep it?
So you could get a higher trade in value for it, of course.
3. With the economy the way it is, we don't need to pull out money for a new car.
If you've got enough socked away for a comfortable life, why not indulge yourself?
4. It looks like a funeral home car to me.
Perhaps you could rent it out to local funeral homes - hey, extra income!
5. When we trade again, I want a CRV. I thought that you knew that.
Doesn't she drive the Sebring? Or is the Explorer "her" car? If it is, then oh well; 4 out of 5 isn't bad.
I have to agree with Moo....
I would have to see the car to see if you were recieving enough for your trade?! Is there anyway you could drive it down to Boston so I could take a look at it?
GP
I would have to say yes they were expecting you to go back and make the deal. Why wouldn't a salesperson think that?
I also think they are offering you $500 more to make the deal. You are obviously a person who does research on your decisions. You are a informed buyer. If was in there shoes and I wanted to make a deal I would be emailing and sending the same message.
Did you say you started this search for a new vehicle at the end of October or the beginning of this month?
GP
I have to agree with Boom and Moo....
I am not trying to question you too much, I actual forgot about the negative equity in your lease.
Like i said before I am dumb sometimes.
i want you to get this new vehicle. So the best way to help you is to understand everything on the break down.
GP
LOL... that's a good one richard. I can definitely empathise with you on that one.
It looks like a funeral home car to me.
That's a good one from your wife. You should have given her one of those Boris Korloff looks. :surprise:
... I thought that you knew that
I hear that from my wife all the time too. I wonder why. :confuse:
You gave it the old college/Team Jipster try though Richard. It just wasn't meant to be... better luck next time.
" It's a new color - Geriatric Snow. $200 off if your hair color matches the vehicle color. "
So that explains why I've seen GS on so many auto models ! Thanks for the elucidation. So LS would be the Lipitor Snow ? I might add automatic always. If you choose the Viva Viagra option then a stick shift becomes confusing.
>Some are looking at Christmas bills coming up. And, all of a sudden the equation tips more towards "what I need" as opposed to "what I want".
I think we're going to see a lot more shock-tightening of purse strings than many expected to see with Christmas coming up and lots of jobs being cut. It's going toget much harder to sell things people don't "need" like a car if it's not a "have to buy" situation.
Lots of cities and counties are cutting back and people who thought their jobs were fairly safe are being laid off because of loss of income for the cities' overspending. I see lots of months of lower spending just like in the old recessions.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"I'm only guessing here, but I'd say people wake up confident one morning, thinking they're going to buy a car. But, the next day, they talk to their broker, read the newspaper, and all of a sudden don't feel so good about pulling the trigger on a deal. "
Another great post gg, as per usual. Recessions are truly evil, consumers don't buy because they believe prices will go lower and manufacturers cut production because they believe consumers won't buy leading to layoffs which reinforces the cycle and so on. Inflation though not good at least means a healthy economy. Not being in car sales also but in sales, I express my honest beliefs. Imho, this is a great time to buy a car/truck.Though the economy may get weaker before turning, the buyer has the fear factor to extract an exceptionally great deal.Negotiate your best deal. Then extract a tad more. Let it go to the sales manager. You won't walk out with out a new vehicle at historic low levels. Slip your salesman some cash on the way out for being your advocate. The good ones that I have seen here will pay you back with vip service, advising you when to buy, no come back in November, xxx will have this deal going on and telling you when not to buy. The models changing in '12, wait till then. As always, don't disrespect honesty when it is presented. You need a new car when the age of your present vehicle suggests that your outlay on repairs will not be recouped by waiting . In every vehicle life there is a " sweetspot " where trade in vs. holding makes more sense.
" Lots of cities and counties are cutting back and people who thought their jobs were fairly safe are being laid off because of loss of income for the cities' overspending. I see lots of months of lower spending just like in the old recessions. "
I agree completely. Months not years or multi years. Third or fourth quarter of '09 , the greater the punishment taken upfront, the lesser on the backside. Hard to imagine more taken up front. Hedge funds have been de-leveraging, dumping muni's as they have unwound their unprofitable mortgage spreads. Some such as Jefferson Co, Al have made truly dumb decisions and will pay the consequences. Others are merely victims of the crunch and those that buy at 40% over treasuries will be rewarded. Non technical explanation to the board. Anyone expect tax rates to go down? Cities that have over spent will be punished. Talking Heads: As was it ever was. As was it ever was.
That, or. . .
My friend's wife's car broke down one day. She walked across the road and bought a new car on the spot (Plymouth Sundance).
Shortly after she became the ex-wife or as he says, "The Hex".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Took the Merc GM to get it detailed last week. Washed, waxed, shampooed....did the full boat.
Anyway, while all this was happening, I struck up a conversation with the guy who owns the place as I have him detail my corral of cars twice/year. This guy has been in business for a pretty long while. As such, he runs across all sorts of cars people are trying to unload their cars, and they come to him to get them "pretty".
He relayed a story to me about a local businessman who had an '04 Lexus LS that he bought new. Guy was trying to sell it to get (moo you'll appreciate this) a new 911. The guy who owns the detail place says he might be interested in buying the LS. I don't know what an '04 LS is worth, but they settled on a price of $24K.
Come to find out the guy didn't actually own the car....it was a lease. As such, it was going to take an extra $14K out of the owner's pocket to make the deal. That deal went south real fast.
You'd think that the LS owner, supposedly a successful businessman, would know he was going to be upside down by a substantial amount. That begged the question...."how long did he actually least the car for?......how can you possibly be upside down that amount after 4 years?"
But, it's a little bit of "trickle down" economics. Lexus as a no sale. But, that meant the 911 sitting at the Porsche dealer was also a "no sale".
Another one.....after getting the GM all pretty, I put a 4 sale sign in it. Taped the original MSRP sticker in the window, together with the CARFAX report. Got a call last night from someone who had seen it. I'm asking $4,500 for it. Clearly states that on the sign.
Guy agrees to buy it for that amount. He begins writing a personal check. I tell him I prefer a money order or a cashier's check, otherwise I'd have to keep possession of the car until his check clears. He starts doing the back pedaling and asks me if I'd accept 11-$400 monthly payments with $100 cash down payment.
I decline and suggest he find a good BHPH lot.
ROFLMAO.....
Thanks GG... I needed a good laugh
GP
Good thing you didn't accept the check. You know it would have bounced. Hence the monthly payment offer. :mad:
I frequently run ads with "easy approval" lines and so on. A week ago a guy calls me and wants to borrow some money.
He tells me some sotry how he's fighting with his injury compensation board, and will be back at work soon, and he's got a van he can use as a collateral (although he'd need to keep it to get to work).
I politely declined.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
GP....no doubt in my mind that the check would have been rubber. On top of that, I'd say after I signed the title over to him, I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that the car, with him in it, would have been in another state before the ink dried.
Whenever I sell a car privately I always get their info, copy their driver's license on my printer/scanner/copier, and sign a one page contract, in case anything goes sour. And I always take cash or bank draft.
Personal checks these days are almost meaningless....
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Boom are we "Curbing cars"?????? :surprise:
GP
I just think it's a good idea. I never misrepresent the cars I sold privately, and so that idiots who feel the world owes them something don't come back a week later asking for money back or whatever.
Here's a short story from a private computer sale frontline
I bought a new computer 2 months ago and advertised my old one for sale for $60 on craigslist.
My old one still worked well, had original Windows XP with the original CD, decent speed (2GHz, 80gb HD, 512MB Ram, video card, 19" CRT monitor, etc.... It was just too slow for many new programs and games that I use.. Good for office stuff, web surfing , had no problems.
Some guy called me and try to bargain on the price. When I told him that it won't run new high memory programs well, he tried to tell me that there's problems with it. After bargaining down to $40 (over the phone) he wanted me to give him warranty for it. I yelled at him that it's a used computer for $60 bucks!!!! :mad: "If you want warranty, go buy a new one for $1000!!!"
Nevertheless he calls me a few days later and wants to come over and try out his memory chips to see if they're compatible, and he wanted to try installing his programs to se if they work etc.....basically wasting my time. I told him the price is now $60 cause somebody is coming by to buy it for that much (3 people called). He got upset and said I must sell it to him for $40 cause I told him that a few days earlier. I said:
" I can sell it to whoever I want for as much as I want. Unless you were here with cash in hand in person, as far as I'm concerned there's no deal. For all I know you could have bought something else, as I haven't heard from you for 4 days. I am supposed to hold onto my items until your royal highness decides to do me a favor and buy my computer a week later? You snooze you lose buddy..."
He finally said ok to the $60 but thankfully another fella called and came by 5 minutes before the idiot, and bought it for $60 no questions asked, no time wasting.
I just can't believe some people act like everyone owes them something. I'm glad I sold the pc to someone more level headed.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I guess that's what keeps marriage interesting after 41 years. You never know what is around the corner. In this case, I managed to find out last night. The wife was basically worried about the economic future. You first have to understand that she never takes care of the books at our house. I do the budget each month, balance the checkbook, take care of the investments, etc. While I know what we can afford, she doesn't. She buys the groceries and goes to the beauty shop. That's about it.
In fact, I purchased the Explorer 5 years ago by myself. She simply said, "Pick out a pretty color for us." She drives it and I drive the convertible as a rule. I think that all of the bad news about the stock market, etc. has her spooked. I assured her last night that after both of us worked for forty years, that we are in good shape. She knows that I am pretty frugal with a penny. This experience turned out to be a good thing. I showed her our monthly budget, our investments, our pension plans, etc. She really needs to know this in case I reach the car lot in the sky before she does. She said that if I really wanted the Mercury GM, it was clear with her.
To Michael: You had excellent responses to her complaints. I pointed them out to her, especially the mpg of the Explorer as compared to the GM. Thanks for the tips.
To those who have not been married as long as I have: There is no purchase worth discord in the home. Both parties need to be on the same page with a little give and take. That's what makes marriage work. Just my opinion.
Now. What about the car deal? I really don't know. :confuse:
Richard
I have to agree with that statement. If I had the furnished apartment and the one nice used car that we started out with 41 years ago, I could be satisfied and pretty happy. It's like many people are just programmed to add purchases to their lives once they get married and start a family. For the next 3 or 4 years, we may see a change in that attitude. Young couples today are having to really stretch those dollars. New furniture, cars, large homes, etc. may come more slowly to them and with more thought and planning. That part may be a good thing.
In the mean time, my heart goes out to the car salesmen here. This is certainly not an easy time for you, or your families.
Richard
Not exactly.
People in general start shopping when they are expecting money to come in, say from a parents will or a jump in sales in their business or in anticipation of a raise in salary.
But if it does not come in or the prospects of coming in start looking bleak, then they start getting cold feet for their purchases.
Don't blame the consumer. If people only went to the market to buy IF they had cash in the pocket, your sales would be less than half.
You are an informed buyer. (remember your vowels a, e, i,o ,u)
>If was in there shoes
If I was in their shoes
Sorry Richard.....I had to jump on this.
My old one still worked well, had original Windows XP with the original CD, decent speed (2GHz, 80gb HD, 512MB Ram
Hey, Boom, do you still have another one of those computers, I'll give you 60 bucks cash!
Once a neighbor was selling his car with an ad in the paper...very good price, almost no miles on it. Another neighbor went and asked a few questions, said he was interested but wanted to think about it. Someone else came and wrote a cheque out right away. The neighbor that was interested was yelling and screaming and cursing the very old man selling the car. I had to tell him, all he needed was a downpayment to hold it...can't expect someone to wait until he decides. :mad:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Keeping peace at home is Job 1.
But really, you will have a great new car for less than $1500 a year and it will be reliable. The old Explorer can blow up anytime soon too.
Also, Ford might not be around when you are ready to buy
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I dropped off my 05’ XG 350 this morning for a tire rotation and balancing as part of my tire purchase agreement last November. I also got an oil change while I was there. Before I left the parking lot I checked ALL of the lug nuts to insure I was satisfied with how they were put on. Most of them were so tight I could barely break them lose but I managed. About 4 were much loser than I would have tightened them and 1 was so tight I couldn’t break it lose. So, I go back into the office and tell the guy at the desk about it and he said, “what did you do, check it with a torque wrench”? I said, “no, I was trying to get them OFF; you guys are the ones that put them on, remember”? :confuse: He then said, “Oh, we’ll take care of that but what are you trying to get them off with, those wrenches that come with cars are a POS”. I said, “I know, that’s why I carry a quality 20 inch 4-way in my trunk”. They immediately send a guy out armed with a 2 foot breaker bar and 13/16 impact socket like I recommended.
Everything is fine now but what would I have done with that right rear tire if I was on the road and had a flat? No need to answer this rhetorical question but that’s why I always check lug nuts when someone other than me touches them. I’d be willing to bet that if most people checked theirs, they would find the same thing as I did.
FWIW, I asked for 10W-30 oil but how can I prove that’s what was used? That’s why I usually do oil changes myself but I still had 2 oil change/filter coupons from when I bought a coupon book of 5 about 10 years ago and decided to use one of them.
Interesting thing on the bottom of my receipt, in big bold letters, were the words “SAFETY COMES FIRST”. I believe that but I also believe that you have to insure that for yourself.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Some people are unreasonable. I gotta put my life on hold cause you want to think about buying something but won't give me a commitment. :confuse:
When I was moving a year ago I put a FREE ad on craigslit for VHS movies -recent titles, about 30 of them for free.
A fella called and said he wanted to "have a movie night". I said "good for you, when can you come and pick up your FREE movies" He said it's kinda far to drive (not very far - only 15 minutes from where he was) and asked me to deliver it to him, I told him to get lost. He calls back later and asks if I can meet him half way. I told him no. Finally when he decided to call back and said he'll pick them up (a couple days later) somebody else already took them. I was happy I gave them to someone that appreciated them.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I hope it’s back to the way it was. It sounded like you had a real mess on your hands.
I decline and suggest he find a good BHPH lot.
Did it really have to be a “good” one?
$4500 for that prettyed-up Grand Marquis sounds like a good deal for some old fart. Have you given any thought about hooking up with Richard? I think all you have to do is give him 9K for his Explorer and you’ll have a deal.
How is the job thing going?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You have to be careful with lug nuts. You can also get them too tight. If they are over tightened they will stretch and weaken the bolt giving it a tendency to break off. Not a good thing.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Love it, surprised he didn't ask you to bring over an old VCR for him to use!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Exact same thing happened too me when I was giving some stuff away by running a Craigslist ad. It blew me away. And you were way to nice with the guy who was a [non-permissible content removed] about the $60 computer.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Geez, you ought to be the poster child (no pun intended) for checking lug nuts.
If they are over tightened they will stretch and weaken the bolt giving it a tendency to break off. Not a good thing.
That is very true and unless you use a torque wrench (which I have) you can over tighten them with a lug wrench. The torque spec for most cars is around 90 ft. lbs., at least it is for the cars I’ve owned. However, I tighten my lug nuts with my trusty 20 inch 4-way and it usually turns out to be a little more than 90 ft. lbs. but not by much (it’s a feel thing and I’m satisfied) but the important thing is I’ve never had any problems. I’m not totally anal about this but I am paranoid.
The last couple of times I’ve gone to NTB, I’ve noticed that they use a torque wrench for the final tightening after using their pneumatic lug tool set to a low torque to speed up the process of installing all those lug nuts and I’m comfortable with that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You give away free stuff and they'll want even more :mad:
But yeah, the $60 computer, I mean I would have rather donated it than sell it to some idiot who'd bug me about it daily for next 3 months.
Oh well......
Decent day today... sold a base Challenger to a guy who called me yesterday. He drove an hour to our dealer because the local dealer tried to bump him $2000 when he went there so he was a bit choked. I gave him a straight up price over the phone, he came, he saw, he test drive, he was happy, and we did a deal. 30 minutes, no fuss.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Years ago I had a 69 Volvo. Had the local knucklehead mechanic (this episode is how I discovered what a knucklehead he was) take off the snow tires and put the regulars back on. Months later, when I actually had to do something with a wheel, I find out he replaced the metric nuts with standard ones, stripping all the threads. Had to get someone else to retap the lugs. Gak!
Meanwhile, I had another episode of eye assault on the road today while heading up to the Rutgers football game. Some guy in a two generation ago Hyundai Sonata with a cloth top and fake portholes. I'm still recovering. MAybe Richard could use these idea when he buys the GM....
Still, glad to be in my own home, in my own bed. Living out of a hotel/motel for an extended period got real old, real fast. Had to wrestle with the insurance adjuster a bit. But, they came through in the end.
It's hard to put a number on a 12 year old Grand Marquis with teeny miles and no need of anything as far as reconditioning. I've had a few offers. One person showed me the "EDMUNDS" printout and offered me $3,000. I declined and asked him to let me know when he finds another car, in immaculate condition, with tiny miles on it for less than $5K. Best legit offer I've had was $3,750.....all cash deal.
I'm going to hold out for another couple of weeks to see if I can hit the $4,500 mark.
As the pros will say, "it's worth what someone else is willing to pay".
I told my Mother that I may just keep it. Not because I need it. But, for sentimental value. I doubt it's going to appreciate, that's for sure. She doesn't drive any more. I'd hate to see it just sit and rot.
Took it to one LM dealer. They offered me $2,300 for it....straight up sale. Saw a couple of new ones. These beasts have barely changed. Gauges are a little different. Trim a bit different. But, really that's about it.
I've been tooling around in it. As maligned as these cars are, they're a nice drive. Quality of the materials are a step above most anything else. They aren't sports cars. But, what they do (smooth, quiet, easy drive), they do well.
I've quit going to those "quicky lube" places for the very reasons you ran across. You ask for something like 5W30. I had one place use 10W30. They tried to convince me that the label on the oil hose was wrong. I finally made them re-drain, and re-fill it with the correct weight. They weren't real pleased over that.
Still, even if you take it to the dealership, where you can't see what they're doing, you have to wonder.......
This particular one is white with grey leather.
j....forgot to answer your question about the job. I've had a couple of offers. But, either my ego, or just the general malaise in the economy, I felt they were weak offers. I figure that if I take a 30% pay cut from what I was making before may make me less than dedicated.
Right now, I'm doing contract work. More specifically, I'm putting marketing plans in place for companies (usually small ones) who want a strategy to get their products on equal footing with some of the big guys, but can't afford a full time "cracker jack" marketing person. The down side, I'm still not making what I was before. The upside is I get to spend my time the way I see fit. I get to pick and choose what I will, and what I won't do. At least I feel like I've got some semblance of control.
I'm doing a lot of hustling, that's for sure. I'm always looking for that next company who's willing to plunk down money for what I do. It's a one man band type of thing....I'm selling. I'm writing marketing plans. I'm answering the phone. I'm sending out invoices. And, I'm trying to collect on those invoices.....kind of walking the fine line between being a collections person, all the while not crossing the line because I want more work from the slow payers.
Enough of that.......in my parents household, my Mother was a Cadillac person. My late Father was a Lincoln person. I remember when my Father bought the Grand Marquis. He was appalled at what a new Lincoln cost (IIRC, they were in the low $30s at the time). He drove the Grand Marquis (I've still got the original MSRP....$25K and change). Decided that there was very little difference in the way it drove compared to the Lincoln (he was right). Bought it and pocketed the difference.
I don't even think Lincoln Town Cars are made anymore. But, you can still score a Grand Marquis.