"...I'm still on the fence on keeping it or not..."
I've just got to help you out here. My last offer was $4K and you drove it over to me in NY, right? Well forget that, I've got a better offer.
What I'll do is still give you the $4000 but I'll take care of the shipping. What I'll do is sent you a check for $6000 and you then send the extra $2K to my shipper in Nigeria. He'll then come and ship the car to me. Whatcha say, deal?
Just came back from a long week-end in the Tampa area. That place is awash in car dealers of every size and shape. All seem to be screamer types with flags and banners and wirrly-gigs flying about. The only thing missing were customers.
In the few days I was there I drove past numerous car lots and NEVER SAW A CUSTOMER. I mean it was like a ghost town at store after store. I thought I might brighten some poor sales guy's day by window-shopping but my wife had the crazy idea that we hadn't flown 1500 miles to look at used cars. Go figure. I really wanted to see for myself if the Florida car market is the shark pit some of you guys say it is. The prices I saw in the local paper seemed very attractive but I don't know if they would slam me with a bunch of fees on top of that.
I always toyed with the idea of buying a nice rust-free car in the south and then taking a driving vacation back home. I usually get "that look" from the wife when I mention that fantasy. I guess I'll just have to wait until GG's car comes by boat from Africa.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Ya, I haven't seen it but this puppy sounds rough. Bad Carfax, paintwork, 80k miles and 14k worth of repairs needed to actually getting it running.......
If someone tells me they'll remove a tree in my front yard for $75 and they leave 1/3 of it there, it's still wrong even if I got it at a major discount.
Tell me, if you have one guy telling you $75 and three others telling you $500 would you expect good service from the $75 dollar guy?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Althoughthe Grand Cherokee sounds nice, it is approaching 12 years old, and it's a V8. The market overall is soft for limited use SUVs (only 2 rows, and a big V8).
You gotta really find a collector who wants that specific model. Like gg said, run an ad and see the response you get.
Put it on craigslist, but you'll have to somehow squeeze into the title that it only has 28k miles, otherwise people assume it's a high mileage overpriced unit and won't click on your ad.
graph, the only time i sold a car on my own, i put and ad in a couple of publications for 2 weeks. on the last day, 2 people showed up just about the same time. told prospect #2, i would talk to him after done with prospect #1. car sold immediately to first buyer with no haggle. after #1 left, #2 said "a lot of those young guys can't come up with the money. here's my number in case he doesn't." i will only say this since you seem to be making an honest effort to sell a decent car, come on, we are talking 5 grand or less. talk to one of your neighbors about driving up as another prospective buyer while someone is looking at the car. :surprise:
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Here is a story from my sales guy (which means I tell in first person story from point of view of the guy who just blew my sale).
This foreign guy calls me. He's been our service customer for last five years and tells me right away he saw '08 Subaru STIs have a blowout sale from mfr. It's zero percent and (darn) he already knows about the tiered bonus program. Moreover, he wants the VIP program (which is 2% below invoice minus all incentives). So I come to his place, give him full 360, we drive around, he likes the car. We talk a lot, he makes a few market condition remarks, but all is nice and smooth, I sort of deflect that comment with all our "everything is great" mantra, you know the drill. We make an appointment to show his car to my UCM. It's a nicely maintained WRX, which was all serviced all in our garage, so I make all these nice comments to keep him interested. He brings the car this evening (I wasn't there), the UCM put a number on it. We pick it up next day for a full quote.
As I said, he takes away everything (as VIP requires) - it's practically a tripple net (2% under invoice) for us minus all bonuses, Subaru pays us a fee for the delivery. So I quote him that and our used car number - [non-permissible content removed] said no. Stupid KBB and Edmunds :mad: . They say it's over 8 grand, close to $8.5K. We put $6K on it. I know it's a little stingy, but you know those books are always wrong and they don't send checks - and the guy looked like he will take that STI. Well, if it's not meant to be ... What a stroke
Now note from the author (the stroke customer in this story):
I understand they want and need something to sustain them and "program" sales take away pricing power. So the trade is the only place to make real money. However, I must say 6 grand was a theft attempt. First they give me all that talk that when if it's about the money, there is no problem and my car is so great (uh and ah), because it looks so well and they have all records in their file and then ... $2200 below "good" $1100 below "fair" in KBB (btw KBB is kind of a king when it comes to all price comparisons in our region, together with Black Book) :confuse: . When I think back, I did expect something like $8500 (just because all the uhs and ahs and "we will take it to our lot" statements), but that probably was unrealistic. I would probably accept something like $7500-7800, which means anything above seven grand, while a lowball, would keep in in the game. BUT SIX ???? Who do they think I was? I was quite clear that I CAN take that STI, but I DON'T NEED IT, i.e. I really like my car and can keep it for a while - that STI was a good upgrade, but not a necessary and most desirable one anyway. After all it was all about the price and I made it clear. Yet - they practically slammed the door and took out a possibility of a "refinement". This much apart on a 30K deal I just don't see happening. I don't get offended by people thinking something is worth less that I think, but that six grand was as close to an insult as it gets without actually being one.
So - I'm a stroke at the end Well, but to eying that BMW for 15 grand more :sick:
Lesson for salespeople - don't make statements you can't back up. Don't say "price will not be a problem" without some kind of qualification (like "reasonable" clause) because you put ideas in customers' heads. Don't uh and ah a trade car if later you put some lowball wholesale value on it - again, you put wrong ideas in peoples' heads.
Nice 2 sided story Dino. You should have sold you ride privately, and bought the STi anyways.
If you think about it, they can't stay in business selling new cars at below invoice while overpaying for trades. Maybe yours was worth top book, I don't know, but the market is so tight right now that nobody wants to be stuck with a trade in that came in too high. To resell your trade, they'll have to deal with grinders too who'll lowball them on it.
As to your point: they said "price won't be a problem" well it wasn't, you coulda hada Subie STi for under invoice.
Maybe your trade was uh and ah, but that's all they were willing to pay for it. If it be in crappy condition, then they'd pay $4k for it. I don't know.
And besides you can't expect a dealer not to "admire" your trade, no matter what shape it's in.
If you're worried about the trade, sell it privately.
Perfectly understood. It's all OK, albeit slightly disapointing after certain signals. I don't take that personally - just don't think they made all the effort or perhaps somewhat misjudged my commitment to that new piece of iron. I may be wrong - and it may be only six grand. Only time will tell.
Truth to be told, I'm too lazy/busy to sell it myself, but too stingy/cheap to give it away for that. I'm willing to "pay" for that convenience service - just this time the price seemed too steep to me. Yeah, if they offered something like seven and change, I might just say "low, but screw it" - at six it really smacked me. It may be that I'm unreasonable, but for for today I like my car, money and time more than I like to have that new STI - and it also looks like they wanted my car far less than they wanted to sell me a new one. It of course is today and tomorrow everything can change. It will be ackward next time at the place when I do an oil change and come across the guy, but that's allright - not everything has to be success.
Just to be clear - the sale part was not a complete zero for them, as they collect $500 "doc/whatever" fee (perhaps not a pure profit, but definitely significant gross) and they probably collect a few hundreds from Subaru for the VIP sale. So it's not exactly "nothing". For the trade being worth what's worth - well, just a few months ago (early summer) Subaru had a guaranteed trade program (loyalty) and then it was $11.5K or so (which was grand or so over book value). Values do go down, as the circumstances do change and manufacturer's money (then) is different than dealer's (now). All understood. I guess I just don't want that STI yet. With my luck they will run out of them and then bring the trade program back .
I was poking around the showroom of a local Ford dealership while a friend was at the parts department when in the corner I saw a fully restored 1949 Ford F-3 for sale. Used car sticker on it and everything. I asked a salesman about it and it was just recently sold and awaiting its owner. Man that was a mighty fine looking truck.
Any of you guys ever have a classic like that in your dealership?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
explorer....you're right, it's $5K. A price point that should be a slam dunk decision if anyone really wants the car. But, $5K is still $5K. And, there are a ton of these vehicles (at least this body style and drivetrain) in the market. As I mentioned, there aren't many changes they've made over the years for this 12 year old example.
What I'm noticing, people who are interested in this car, are also interested in 3 others exactly like it, albeit not in as good of shape, and with tiny miles.
Plenty of interest, but as I'm sure a lot of sales people on these boards will tell you, people are being very careful with their money right now. My theory.....while I've got the cream of the used GM lot sitting in my driveway, there's no shortage of others on the market that people want to see/drive.
I'll either get close to the "ask" price. Or, I'll keep it (for reasons I can't really explain).
But, like your sale, I've got two people coming this a.m. to look at it. One is returning after seeing it (which means they've been shopping and found nothing better for the price). The other, via our phone conversation, thinks that if the car is what I say it is, would be perfect for them. Neither may show up, however. But, if they do, I'll be in the same situation you were in.
I'm not out to rape anyone here. I just want what I consider a fair price.
dino.....tough situation, from both the dealer's perspective, as well as yours.
You've got the recent "guaranteed" trade value program, which has now expired (which was probably funded by the manufacturer). And, you've got the dealership, who's trying to make as much money as they can on used cars, since they can't make much money on the new side of the house.
As you note, Edmunds, KBB, NADA, etc are guides. I've yet to see a situation where they were "dead on" in their used appraisals. But, since the dealer's done all the servicing, and they know the car is a fine example of the breed, I'd be a bit perplexed why they'd go "skinny" on the appraisal.
Personally, I'd shop your car to a couple of different dealerships to get a "feel" for what the true trade value is. It might be $6K. It might be $7K. It might be $8K. You don't know unless you get more than one dealership to put a number on it.
I definitely wouldn't have considered you a stroke, though
talk to one of your neighbors about driving up as another prospective buyer while someone is looking at the car.
I didn’t have to resort to that when I was trying to sell a 67’ Impala (283 cid) in the mid 70’s with it’s share of rust and metal plates pop riveted to it in a few places, especially behind the rear wheels on both sides. It had low miles and ran great but it was definitely a beater and I had a price of $150 on it. I knew it was going to sell for that price and while a guy was looking at it for his son (not with him) he starts the typical negotiating, when all of a sudden Mrs.jmonroe comes out of the house and motions to me to come over to her. I said, “can it wait a minute”? The guy says, “let me listen to it again while you talk to your wife”. I talk, then he still wants me to take $50 off the price. I told him he’s the first one that’s come to look at it and if the guy on the phone doesn’t give me what I’m asking I’ll consider his offer.
SOLD, no more negotiating.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I got some great information from everyone who passed on comments regarding Snow/Winter tires. This is very worthwhile so I wanted to post it here as well. Sometimes I think dealers are not the best place to get work done....but I won't think that again!
Just wanted to let you know what happened; Called 3 tire stores and total packages with rims were about $2000 Cdn or about $1600 U.S. Then I realized they probably weren't giving me prices for Run Flat Tires, so I checked and they weren't. One dealer had tires for $200 each and he said there was no advantage to putting them on rims...in fact it was more costly because of the air pressure sensers, so he could put on snows for under $1000. He said run flats would be $500 each - $400 U.S.
Then I thought, maybe the dealer price of $1700 on with rims was better especially if they are talking Run Flats. So, the dealers price includes 4 RFTs, on steel rims, all balanced and ready to go, plus 4 tote bags, they know 2 will fit in the trunk and 2 on the back seat....and thats about $1300 U.S. installed so not bad considering. They are Blizzacks and I just looked up a great article that explained why the Blizzack won't last as long;
Michelin claims its new tire will last 75 per cent longer than its main rival. The unnamed rival, I suspect, is the Bridgestone Blizzak. And that vast difference in wear rate would be based on the fact the Blizzak is a multicell compound for only 55 per cent of its tread depth. The remaining 45 per cent of the tire is a standard winter compound.
Your comments were a big help. I really thought 2 snow tires would be enough, and I thought I would try to get through the winter without snow tires. But for $1700 the peace of mind is well worth it.
kyfdx.....yeah, I saw that ad. Actually, his/hers is a 20 line ad with a big WOW teaser at the top. Compared to my "dinky" 4 line ad. If it's any consolation to me, I bet his ad cost $100. Mine didn't cost near that much.
Mine is the same car, with 1/2 the miles. Only difference is I didn't list all the "stuff" like that seller did. I also didn't get into the hyperbole that he listed like "immaculate", "premium" and "mint", although I could have.
I just stated the facts.
Guess I'm in a bidding war with some more competition. Now, it's a matter of pride as to "who's is better". I almost HAVE to sell it to prove my worthiness!
I told him he’s the first one that’s come to look at it and if the guy on the phone doesn’t give me what I’m asking I’ll consider his offer.
Two things come to mind when I hear something like that from a seller. The first is "B"... the second is "S".
Oldest trick in the book. I'm sure it happens from time to time, but I wouldn't let it influence me in paying more than I wanted.
oldfarmer....tell you what. I'll send the car to you, with a deposit into your bank account for $10M more, if you agree that I'm the national treasurer of Nigeria, and send me your bank account numbers along with you SS# so I can make the deposit. :P
explorer....you're really stuck on these GMs. You've found yourself the preferred black one. If I were you, I'd pull the trigger on it. Or, buy mine. I'll even take it to Earl Schieb to make it the color you want.
Update.....I'm in competition with another person selling a GM. This is bad. Sounds like we've both got a good car (mine's better 'cause I have 33k fewer miles on mine, though). Two sets of prospective buyers bouncing the latest offer from one to the other. The old KY couple has already called me twice trying to "play off" offers they got from my competition.
I can't believe I'm losing out to someone with a prettier newspaper ad, with 2X the mileage, for essentially the same price (we're talking less than a $150 delta here).
These old folks are trying to grind me. I don't buy that way. I won't sell that way.
No “trick” involved. When I asked him for his phone number so I could get back to him (if I had to) he’s reaching for his wallet. So, I told Mrs. jmonroe to tell the guy on the phone that it’s SOLD.
I knew I had that car priced too low; the phone never stopped ringing for three days after the sale. I found out from a couple late callers, that asked what I sold it for, that I didn’t have it priced high enough. Because when they asked what I sold it for and I told them $150, just like my add stated, they said, “I would have given you more”. :mad: :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"...oldfarmer...tell you what..." "...explorer...buy mine...I'll even take it to Earl Schieb..." "...I'm in competition with another person selling a GM..." "...I'm losing out to someone with a prettier newspaper ad..." "...These old folks are trying to grind me..."
GG, whatever business you are in, quit. You should go right into car sales full time.
You sound just like the sales guys in here.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
i only mentioned painting it black because oldfarmer wanted a black one. if it was a maurader, well that's different. someone posted a picture of one a few days back.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
i had heard that about blizzaks, but since i had no personal experince with them, i didn't say anything. i went with awd, cost less than 2k, but i don't have to buy tires/rims. does cost some gas mileage all year round.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I didn't mean to imply you were b.s-ing the guy. But, whenever it has been said to me, the person saying it had what Judge Judy would call "Roman" eyes. Not judging anyone, but I wouldn't do it.
I would have too, but my model doesn't come in all wheel drive.....I don't think there are any all wheel drive convertibles. My last 3 cars were AWD and my wife's last 2. It is well worth it, if you can do it.
i went with awd, cost less than 2k, but i don't have to buy tires/rims. does cost some gas mileage all year round.
AWD doesn't help you at all to stop. That's what winter tires are for. A lot of people get over confident with AWD thinking they can drive like they usually do, and they get into trouble.
Apologies to our hosts for the off topic, but I felt it was important to clarify this common misconception.
LOL......you know oldfarmer, you're right. I am starting to sound like a car sales guy.
Truth is, if I ever did get into the car sales, I'd probably be fired the first day. I like easy transactions. I don't have the temperament to deal with people who try to slam a good car. Nor, do I have the patience to play games for $100.
While I don't buy by grinding, I do have a new found respect for what the sales guys here go through. Some of these people are spending more in gas, than what they'd save. Most are from KY (I'm in OH). It's a 35-40 minute trip, one way, to get from northern KY to where I live.
richard...my apologies. I knew someone wanted a black GM. Just didn't remember who.
When I had my 3 Series, I can relate what having only two rear snow tires did. It really threw off the handling. Things got real squirrely on both wet and dry pavement....to the point that I considered it dangerous. And, I'm a fairly fearless man.
We have sold our 3 Challenger SRT8s for over sticker
The 09 Challengers are selling well too.
We still have some new 07 models sitting in the showroom :surprise:
When times are tough, I go and ask for a raise from my boss and get it
Many sub prime customers with horrible credit want loaded Hemis, and Ram Diesels that they can't afford... but they end up driving away happy in used Aveos and Cobalts.
I haven't smoked for almost 3 months and saved nearly $1000.
In this uncertain economy I take on as much responsibility as I can and learn as much as I can (dealership functions) so that in worst case scenario if I have to work elsewhere I'll have a ton of knowledge and experience.
only two rear snow tires did. It really threw off the handling. Things got real squirrely on both wet and dry pavement....to the point that I considered it dangerous.
And here is why;
So winter tires are the answer if you enjoy stopping in a straight line after Jack Frost visits.
And that would be four winter tires, not two, no matter what kind of drive system your car may use. Try running down the street with one winter boot and one summer shoe if you need a graphic experience to reinforce the idea that a car should have balanced traction.
In this uncertain economy I take on as much responsibility as I can and learn as much as I can (dealership functions) so that in worst case scenario if I have to work elsewhere I'll have a ton of knowledge and experience.
That is a great attitude. I came to realize you get out of work what you put into it. People who are lazy or want to avoid work hate being at work. Throw yourself into it and you get something out of it.
Another thing is I had some crappy jobs along the way, especially when I had to take another job quicly after being downsized. But, the things I learned from those jobs was very valuable, I couldn't have started my own company without that knowledge. The knowledge was more valuable than the pay check.
Boomer, you always go the extra distance to answer questions and reply, I think that and the willingness to do extra at the dealership will pay off one day. For every guy who will do extra, there's about 100 who won't (the one's who stand around and gripe all day), and that makes a difference.
New 07s in general. We have a Charger, a Compass, and I think a Sebring.
New 07's. How does that happen? What are they worth? Chrysler does have excess inventory.
What do you think about bailing out the Detroit Big 3? Or is that on another topic? Personally, I think it could be considered, but one thing is I would like to see the execs take a 90% pay cut until the company is in the black. And, I would like to see the auto workers take a 33% cut in pay until there's a turnaround. I think everyone has to do their part to get out of the mess. Be interesting if the government could remove some taxes on new cars...for a limited time!
Here is a pretty good article that was in todays Automotive News.
The cost of GM's death
Automotive News | November 14, 2008 - 12:28 pm EST
If Congress thinks a bailout of General Motors is expensive, it should consider the cost of a GM failure.
Let’s be clear. The alternative to government cash for GM is not a dreamy Chapter 11 filing, a reorganization that puts dealers and the UAW in their place, ensuring future success.
No, even if GM could get debtor-in-possession financing to keep the lights on (which it can’t), Chapter 11 means a collapse of sales and a spiral into a Chapter 7 liquidation.
GM’s 100,000 American jobs will die. Health care for a million Americans will be lost or at risk. Hundreds of GM’s 1,300 suppliers will die. Their collapse could take down Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC, perhaps even North American transplants. Dealers in every county of America will close.
The government will face greater unemployment, more Americans without health insurance and greater pension liabilities.
Criticize Detroit 3 executives all you want. But the issue today is not whether GM should have closed Buick years ago, been tougher with the UAW or supported higher fuel economy standards.
In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn out the lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other alternative is fantasy.
The $25 billion in loans that Congress approved to partially fund improvements in fuel economy? Irrelevant. Dead automakers do not invest in technology.
The collapse of the global financial system has crushed the American car market, dried up revenues for the Detroit 3 and highlighted their weaknesses.
Each of the Detroit 3 is in crisis. But Ford, which borrowed big two years ago and thus has more cash today, may skip a bailout and the strings attached. Cerberus, which bought Chrysler last year, doesn’t deserve money. Government cash might help sell Chrysler to a strategic owner.
Some Detroit critics want their pound of flesh: Throw the bums out and install a government czar. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson won’t use any of his $700 billion bank bailout money to help manufacturers. In any case, he’d need a guarantee that a bailout would make Detroit “viable.”
Well, nobody -- not even AIG -- is insuring guarantees for viability.
The taxpayer needs protection and an upside. GM’s top management may need to go. Government-as-shareholder deserves a big voice. Those details can be worked out.
The Detroit 3 CEOs and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger had better tell two critical congressional hearings next week what sacrifices they are prepared to make.
But the stark fact remains: Absent a bailout, GM dies, and with it much of manufacturing in America. Congress needs to do the right thing -- now
Here is a pretty good article that was in todays Automotive News.
Thanks for the information...it was very interesting.
I am not totally convinced government money and saving GM is really going to save jobs if people aren't buying their cars. Won't other companies come in and take up the slack? Won't the other companies hire more workers and buy more steel to boost production? Won't we get rid of cars that aren't selling, and executives that steered the company down the wrong path, and workers who get $75 an hour to build inferior product? Do we try to keep the dinosaur alive when it needs more cash and creative ideas than it will ever come up with? Will more money go down the drain? Other people are losing their jobs too....but the unions won't cut pay or benefits. I am not saying I have the answers. I am just presenting the other side of the story.
And, cynically thinking, where will the money go? Executive golden-parachutes? AIG-like luxury farewell parties? Bonuses? UAW jackets for all! Can the folks who currently run the show be trusted to do the right thing?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Comments
I've just got to help you out here. My last offer was $4K and you drove it over to me in NY, right? Well forget that, I've got a better offer.
What I'll do is still give you the $4000 but I'll take care of the shipping. What I'll do is sent you a check for $6000 and you then send the extra $2K to my shipper in Nigeria. He'll then come and ship the car to me. Whatcha say, deal?
Just came back from a long week-end in the Tampa area. That place is awash in car dealers of every size and shape. All seem to be screamer types with flags and banners and wirrly-gigs flying about. The only thing missing were customers.
In the few days I was there I drove past numerous car lots and NEVER SAW A CUSTOMER. I mean it was like a ghost town at store after store. I thought I might brighten some poor sales guy's day by window-shopping but my wife had the crazy idea that we hadn't flown 1500 miles to look at used cars. Go figure. I really wanted to see for myself if the Florida car market is the shark pit some of you guys say it is. The prices I saw in the local paper seemed very attractive but I don't know if they would slam me with a bunch of fees on top of that.
I always toyed with the idea of buying a nice rust-free car in the south and then taking a driving vacation back home. I usually get "that look" from the wife when I mention that fantasy. I guess I'll just have to wait until GG's car comes by boat from Africa.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Good luck!
Tell me, if you have one guy telling you $75 and three others telling you $500 would you expect good service from the $75 dollar guy?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
You gotta really find a collector who wants that specific model. Like gg said, run an ad and see the response you get.
Put it on craigslist, but you'll have to somehow squeeze into the title that it only has 28k miles, otherwise people assume it's a high mileage overpriced unit and won't click on your ad.
Good luck,
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
the only time i sold a car on my own, i put and ad in a couple of publications for 2 weeks.
on the last day, 2 people showed up just about the same time.
told prospect #2, i would talk to him after done with prospect #1.
car sold immediately to first buyer with no haggle.
after #1 left, #2 said "a lot of those young guys can't come up with the money. here's my number in case he doesn't."
i will only say this since you seem to be making an honest effort to sell a decent car, come on, we are talking 5 grand or less.
talk to one of your neighbors about driving up as another prospective buyer while someone is looking at the car. :surprise:
This foreign guy calls me. He's been our service customer for last five years and tells me right away he saw '08 Subaru STIs have a blowout sale from mfr. It's zero percent and (darn) he already knows about the tiered bonus program. Moreover, he wants the VIP program (which is 2% below invoice minus all incentives). So I come to his place, give him full 360, we drive around, he likes the car. We talk a lot, he makes a few market condition remarks, but all is nice and smooth, I sort of deflect that comment with all our "everything is great" mantra, you know the drill. We make an appointment to show his car to my UCM. It's a nicely maintained WRX, which was all serviced all in our garage, so I make all these nice comments to keep him interested. He brings the car this evening (I wasn't there), the UCM put a number on it. We pick it up next day for a full quote.
As I said, he takes away everything (as VIP requires) - it's practically a tripple net (2% under invoice) for us minus all bonuses, Subaru pays us a fee for the delivery. So I quote him that and our used car number - [non-permissible content removed] said no. Stupid KBB and Edmunds :mad: . They say it's over 8 grand, close to $8.5K. We put $6K on it. I know it's a little stingy, but you know those books are always wrong and they don't send checks - and the guy looked like he will take that STI. Well, if it's not meant to be ... What a stroke
Now note from the author (the stroke customer in this story):
I understand they want and need something to sustain them and "program" sales take away pricing power. So the trade is the only place to make real money. However, I must say 6 grand was a theft attempt. First they give me all that talk that when if it's about the money, there is no problem and my car is so great (uh and ah), because it looks so well and they have all records in their file and then ... $2200 below "good" $1100 below "fair" in KBB (btw KBB is kind of a king when it comes to all price comparisons in our region, together with Black Book) :confuse: . When I think back, I did expect something like $8500 (just because all the uhs and ahs and "we will take it to our lot" statements), but that probably was unrealistic. I would probably accept something like $7500-7800, which means anything above seven grand, while a lowball, would keep in in the game. BUT SIX ???? Who do they think I was? I was quite clear that I CAN take that STI, but I DON'T NEED IT, i.e. I really like my car and can keep it for a while - that STI was a good upgrade, but not a necessary and most desirable one anyway. After all it was all about the price and I made it clear. Yet - they practically slammed the door and took out a possibility of a "refinement". This much apart on a 30K deal I just don't see happening. I don't get offended by people thinking something is worth less that I think, but that six grand was as close to an insult as it gets without actually being one.
So - I'm a stroke at the end
Lesson for salespeople - don't make statements you can't back up. Don't say "price will not be a problem" without some kind of qualification (like "reasonable" clause) because you put ideas in customers' heads. Don't uh and ah a trade car if later you put some lowball wholesale value on it - again, you put wrong ideas in peoples' heads.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
If you think about it, they can't stay in business selling new cars at below invoice while overpaying for trades. Maybe yours was worth top book, I don't know, but the market is so tight right now that nobody wants to be stuck with a trade in that came in too high. To resell your trade, they'll have to deal with grinders too who'll lowball them on it.
As to your point: they said "price won't be a problem" well it wasn't, you coulda hada Subie STi for under invoice.
Maybe your trade was uh and ah, but that's all they were willing to pay for it. If it be in crappy condition, then they'd pay $4k for it. I don't know.
And besides you can't expect a dealer not to "admire" your trade, no matter what shape it's in.
If you're worried about the trade, sell it privately.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Truth to be told, I'm too lazy/busy to sell it myself, but too stingy/cheap to give it away for that. I'm willing to "pay" for that convenience service - just this time the price seemed too steep to me. Yeah, if they offered something like seven and change, I might just say "low, but screw it" - at six it really smacked me. It may be that I'm unreasonable, but for for today I like my car, money and time more than I like to have that new STI - and it also looks like they wanted my car far less than they wanted to sell me a new one. It of course is today and tomorrow everything can change. It will be ackward next time at the place when I do an oil change and come across the guy, but that's allright - not everything has to be success.
Just to be clear - the sale part was not a complete zero for them, as they collect $500 "doc/whatever" fee (perhaps not a pure profit, but definitely significant gross) and they probably collect a few hundreds from Subaru for the VIP sale. So it's not exactly "nothing". For the trade being worth what's worth - well, just a few months ago (early summer) Subaru had a guaranteed trade program (loyalty) and then it was $11.5K or so (which was grand or so over book value). Values do go down, as the circumstances do change and manufacturer's money (then) is different than dealer's (now). All understood. I guess I just don't want that STI yet. With my luck they will run out of them and then bring the trade program back
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Any of you guys ever have a classic like that in your dealership?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The models are:
F-1: 1/2 ton (4,700 GVWR max)
F-2: 3/4 ton (5,700 GVWR max)
F-3: Heavy Duty 3/4 ton (6,800 GVWR max)
F-3: Parcel Delivery (7,000 GVWR max) & optional rear spring pkg (7,800 GVWR max)
F-4: 1 ton (7,500 GVWR max) & optional 1 1/4 ton pkg (10,000 GVWR max)
F-5: 1 1/2 ton: Conventional, school bus, and cab over engine (C.O.E.) (10,000-14,500 GVWR)
F-6: 2 ton: Conventional, school bus, and C.O.E. (14,000-16,000 GVWR)
F-7: Conventional (17,000-19,000 GVWR)
F-8: Conventional (20,000-22,000 GVWR)
What I'm noticing, people who are interested in this car, are also interested in 3 others exactly like it, albeit not in as good of shape, and with tiny miles.
Plenty of interest, but as I'm sure a lot of sales people on these boards will tell you, people are being very careful with their money right now. My theory.....while I've got the cream of the used GM lot sitting in my driveway, there's no shortage of others on the market that people want to see/drive.
I'll either get close to the "ask" price. Or, I'll keep it (for reasons I can't really explain).
But, like your sale, I've got two people coming this a.m. to look at it. One is returning after seeing it (which means they've been shopping and found nothing better for the price). The other, via our phone conversation, thinks that if the car is what I say it is, would be perfect for them. Neither may show up, however. But, if they do, I'll be in the same situation you were in.
I'm not out to rape anyone here. I just want what I consider a fair price.
dino.....tough situation, from both the dealer's perspective, as well as yours.
You've got the recent "guaranteed" trade value program, which has now expired (which was probably funded by the manufacturer). And, you've got the dealership, who's trying to make as much money as they can on used cars, since they can't make much money on the new side of the house.
As you note, Edmunds, KBB, NADA, etc are guides. I've yet to see a situation where they were "dead on" in their used appraisals. But, since the dealer's done all the servicing, and they know the car is a fine example of the breed, I'd be a bit perplexed why they'd go "skinny" on the appraisal.
Personally, I'd shop your car to a couple of different dealerships to get a "feel" for what the true trade value is. It might be $6K. It might be $7K. It might be $8K. You don't know unless you get more than one dealership to put a number on it.
I definitely wouldn't have considered you a stroke, though
I didn’t have to resort to that when I was trying to sell a 67’ Impala (283 cid) in the mid 70’s with it’s share of rust and metal plates pop riveted to it in a few places, especially behind the rear wheels on both sides. It had low miles and ran great but it was definitely a beater and I had a price of $150 on it. I knew it was going to sell for that price and while a guy was looking at it for his son (not with him) he starts the typical negotiating, when all of a sudden Mrs.jmonroe comes out of the house and motions to me to come over to her. I said, “can it wait a minute”? The guy says, “let me listen to it again while you talk to your wife”. I talk, then he still wants me to take $50 off the price. I told him he’s the first one that’s come to look at it and if the guy on the phone doesn’t give me what I’m asking I’ll consider his offer.
SOLD, no more negotiating.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Just wanted to let you know what happened;
Called 3 tire stores and total packages with rims were about $2000 Cdn or about $1600 U.S. Then I realized they probably weren't giving me prices for Run Flat Tires, so I checked and they weren't.
One dealer had tires for $200 each and he said there was no advantage to putting them on rims...in fact it was more costly because of the air pressure sensers, so he could put on snows for under $1000. He said run flats would be $500 each - $400 U.S.
Then I thought, maybe the dealer price of $1700 on with rims was better especially if they are talking Run Flats. So, the dealers price includes 4 RFTs, on steel rims, all balanced and ready to go, plus 4 tote bags, they know 2 will fit in the trunk and 2 on the back seat....and thats about $1300 U.S. installed so not bad considering.
They are Blizzacks and I just looked up a great article that explained why the Blizzack won't last as long;
Michelin claims its new tire will last 75 per cent longer than its main rival. The unnamed rival, I suspect, is the Bridgestone Blizzak. And that vast difference in wear rate would be based on the fact the Blizzak is a multicell compound for only 55 per cent of its tread depth. The remaining 45 per cent of the tire is a standard winter compound.
To read more; Snow Tire Info
Your comments were a big help. I really thought 2 snow tires would be enough, and I thought I would try to get through the winter without snow tires. But for $1700 the peace of mind is well worth it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
New 10-line ad in the paper today.. Same asking price... 68K miles..
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Mine is the same car, with 1/2 the miles. Only difference is I didn't list all the "stuff" like that seller did. I also didn't get into the hyperbole that he listed like "immaculate", "premium" and "mint", although I could have.
I just stated the facts.
Guess I'm in a bidding war with some more competition. Now, it's a matter of pride as to "who's is better". I almost HAVE to sell it to prove my worthiness!
Two things come to mind when I hear something like that from a seller. The first is "B"... the second is "S".
Oldest trick in the book. I'm sure it happens from time to time, but I wouldn't let it influence me in paying more than I wanted.
explorer....you're really stuck on these GMs. You've found yourself the preferred black one. If I were you, I'd pull the trigger on it. Or, buy mine. I'll even take it to Earl Schieb to make it the color you want.
Update.....I'm in competition with another person selling a GM. This is bad. Sounds like we've both got a good car (mine's better 'cause I have 33k fewer miles on mine, though). Two sets of prospective buyers bouncing the latest offer from one to the other. The old KY couple has already called me twice trying to "play off" offers they got from my competition.
I can't believe I'm losing out to someone with a prettier newspaper ad, with 2X the mileage, for essentially the same price (we're talking less than a $150 delta here).
These old folks are trying to grind me. I don't buy that way. I won't sell that way.
No “trick” involved. When I asked him for his phone number so I could get back to him (if I had to) he’s reaching for his wallet. So, I told Mrs. jmonroe to tell the guy on the phone that it’s SOLD.
I knew I had that car priced too low; the phone never stopped ringing for three days after the sale. I found out from a couple late callers, that asked what I sold it for, that I didn’t have it priced high enough. Because when they asked what I sold it for and I told them $150, just like my add stated, they said, “I would have given you more”. :mad: :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"...explorer...buy mine...I'll even take it to Earl Schieb..."
"...I'm in competition with another person selling a GM..."
"...I'm losing out to someone with a prettier newspaper ad..."
"...These old folks are trying to grind me..."
GG, whatever business you are in, quit. You should go right into car sales full time.
You sound just like the sales guys in here.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
if it was a maurader, well that's different.
someone posted a picture of one a few days back.
i went with awd, cost less than 2k, but i don't have to buy tires/rims.
does cost some gas mileage all year round.
I didn't mean to imply you were b.s-ing the guy. But, whenever it has been said to me, the person saying it had what Judge Judy would call "Roman" eyes. Not judging anyone, but I wouldn't do it.
I would have too, but my model doesn't come in all wheel drive.....I don't think there are any all wheel drive convertibles. My last 3 cars were AWD and my wife's last 2. It is well worth it, if you can do it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
does cost some gas mileage all year round.
AWD doesn't help you at all to stop. That's what winter tires are for.
A lot of people get over confident with AWD thinking they can drive like they usually do, and they get into trouble.
Apologies to our hosts for the off topic, but I felt it was important to clarify this common misconception.
I don't know how common the misconception is but it is a point worth making.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
LOL......you know oldfarmer, you're right. I am starting to sound like a car sales guy.
Truth is, if I ever did get into the car sales, I'd probably be fired the first day. I like easy transactions. I don't have the temperament to deal with people who try to slam a good car. Nor, do I have the patience to play games for $100.
While I don't buy by grinding, I do have a new found respect for what the sales guys here go through. Some of these people are spending more in gas, than what they'd save. Most are from KY (I'm in OH). It's a 35-40 minute trip, one way, to get from northern KY to where I live.
richard...my apologies. I knew someone wanted a black GM. Just didn't remember who.
I'd say it's pretty common, judging by the amount of Subarus and SUVs flying by at 80MPH during our nor'easters! :sick:
Common enough that after major snowstorms the vast majority of the cars I see in the ditch have AWD.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Putting on 4 like show tires solved that problem.
Audi A4 Cabrio is available with Quattro AWD.
Perfect for the winters in Colorado (as I watch the snow fall today outside my office window).
The 09 Challengers are selling well too.
We still have some new 07 models sitting in the showroom :surprise:
When times are tough, I go and ask for a raise from my boss and get it
Many sub prime customers with horrible credit want loaded Hemis, and Ram Diesels that they can't afford... but they end up driving away happy in used Aveos and Cobalts.
I haven't smoked for almost 3 months and saved nearly $1000.
In this uncertain economy I take on as much responsibility as I can and learn as much as I can (dealership functions) so that in worst case scenario if I have to work elsewhere I'll have a ton of knowledge and experience.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
So have you been by a GM dealership lately to collect some brochures? Certainly looks like the Ram isn't going to be "tough" much longer.
The 09 Challengers are selling well too.
We still have some new 07 models sitting in the showroom
??? Ummm... uhhhh... If you have an '07 Challenger ... well... I'd be real surprised. Then I'd ask how much yer discounting it. ;b
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Why won't the Ram be tough?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
This has happened more than twice with me now in the last 10 days.
People have referred to my posts, but rather than attributing it to me, they say "someone"......hmmm
Only problem is it isn't a "hardtop" convertible....which BMW does have.
Also, not available in Canada...not enough demand...but thanks for the tip.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And here is why;
So winter tires are the answer if you enjoy stopping in a straight line after Jack Frost visits.
And that would be four winter tires, not two, no matter what kind of drive system your car may use. Try running down the street with one winter boot and one summer shoe if you need a graphic experience to reinforce the idea that a car should have balanced traction.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That is a great attitude. I came to realize you get out of work what you put into it. People who are lazy or want to avoid work hate being at work. Throw yourself into it and you get something out of it.
Another thing is I had some crappy jobs along the way, especially when I had to take another job quicly after being downsized. But, the things I learned from those jobs was very valuable, I couldn't have started my own company without that knowledge. The knowledge was more valuable than the pay check.
Boomer, you always go the extra distance to answer questions and reply, I think that and the willingness to do extra at the dealership will pay off one day. For every guy who will do extra, there's about 100 who won't (the one's who stand around and gripe all day), and that makes a difference.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
New 07's. How does that happen? What are they worth? Chrysler does have excess inventory.
What do you think about bailing out the Detroit Big 3? Or is that on another topic? Personally, I think it could be considered, but one thing is I would like to see the execs take a 90% pay cut until the company is in the black. And, I would like to see the auto workers take a 33% cut in pay until there's a turnaround. I think everyone has to do their part to get out of the mess. Be interesting if the government could remove some taxes on new cars...for a limited time!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The cost of GM's death
Automotive News | November 14, 2008 - 12:28 pm EST
If Congress thinks a bailout of General Motors is expensive, it should consider the cost of a GM failure.
Let’s be clear. The alternative to government cash for GM is not a dreamy Chapter 11 filing, a reorganization that puts dealers and the UAW in their place, ensuring future success.
No, even if GM could get debtor-in-possession financing to keep the lights on (which it can’t), Chapter 11 means a collapse of sales and a spiral into a Chapter 7 liquidation.
GM’s 100,000 American jobs will die. Health care for a million Americans will be lost or at risk. Hundreds of GM’s 1,300 suppliers will die. Their collapse could take down Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC, perhaps even North American transplants. Dealers in every county of America will close.
The government will face greater unemployment, more Americans without health insurance and greater pension liabilities.
Criticize Detroit 3 executives all you want. But the issue today is not whether GM should have closed Buick years ago, been tougher with the UAW or supported higher fuel economy standards.
In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn out the lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other alternative is fantasy.
The $25 billion in loans that Congress approved to partially fund improvements in fuel economy? Irrelevant. Dead automakers do not invest in technology.
The collapse of the global financial system has crushed the American car market, dried up revenues for the Detroit 3 and highlighted their weaknesses.
Each of the Detroit 3 is in crisis. But Ford, which borrowed big two years ago and thus has more cash today, may skip a bailout and the strings attached. Cerberus, which bought Chrysler last year, doesn’t deserve money. Government cash might help sell Chrysler to a strategic owner.
Some Detroit critics want their pound of flesh: Throw the bums out and install a government czar. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson won’t use any of his $700 billion bank bailout money to help manufacturers. In any case, he’d need a guarantee that a bailout would make Detroit “viable.”
Well, nobody -- not even AIG -- is insuring guarantees for viability.
The taxpayer needs protection and an upside. GM’s top management may need to go. Government-as-shareholder deserves a big voice. Those details can be worked out.
The Detroit 3 CEOs and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger had better tell two critical congressional hearings next week what sacrifices they are prepared to make.
But the stark fact remains: Absent a bailout, GM dies, and with it much of manufacturing in America. Congress needs to do the right thing -- now
Sold a used one and sealed up another ordered car. Let's get more of this going!
I'm off to China for 10 days in December and need some spending dough.
Thanks for the information...it was very interesting.
I am not totally convinced government money and saving GM is really going to save jobs if people aren't buying their cars. Won't other companies come in and take up the slack? Won't the other companies hire more workers and buy more steel to boost production? Won't we get rid of cars that aren't selling, and executives that steered the company down the wrong path, and workers who get $75 an hour to build inferior product? Do we try to keep the dinosaur alive when it needs more cash and creative ideas than it will ever come up with? Will more money go down the drain? Other people are losing their jobs too....but the unions won't cut pay or benefits. I am not saying I have the answers. I am just presenting the other side of the story.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)