jipster....haven't driven one yet. But, I do like the looks of the 6. Reviews look good. When did Mazda drop the 4 year/50K mile bumper-to-bumper warranty? To me, that was a major selling point for them.
dino....you did fine. Got yourself a nice car. And, from what you stated, got decent money on the trade. What I've learned, our cars, regardless of what they are, are worth more to us than they are to anyone else. To most of us, (not necessarily me, since I usually buy and sell on a whim) our cars are our pride and joy. We become emotionally attached to them.
To the dealer, it's a business transaction. Whatever deal nets them the most money, is the only determining factor. We take it personally when we find out our trades aren't worth what we thought they were. We're insulted by the offer. It's just business.
UPDATE on the Mercury. No suspense. It sold yesterday. All cash deal. Got within $100 of my target price (advertised for $4,995....was willing to take $4,700....sold for $4,600). While I really didn't do any reconditioning per se, I had a $50 detail done, a $60 newspaper ad, a $40 CARFAX run, $60 to fill up the tank (2X). Another $10 to buy a "For Sale" sign in the window. All total, with minimal "mop & glo" done, no mechanical checks done, I had $200+ in it, just to sell it. I've got a new found understanding about what dealerships put into new cars to get them in saleable condition, which is much more than what I did.
My first inclination, based on the initial response of the newspaper ad, was that it would sell by this weekend. Everybody came out of the woodwork yesterday. For the week, I did 11 test drives, 3 of them just yesterday. Had offers between $3,500 to the final sale price.
kyfdx....the buyer is from Crittendon....long trip to buy a car. Very nice man, though....late 60s.
The older "nit picky" couple showed up unannounced right after I closed the deal. They got a little "put off" because I didn't call them back with a counter offer (didn't know I had to). Another person, who did a test drive earlier in the week came by, also. He also said I should have called him before closing the deal (again, didn't know I was required to do that). One lady who also test drove it earlier this week, called me last night said she was willing to buy for cash. She wanted to know what I sold the Merc for. She wanted to know if $4,700 would have bought the car (it would have, but she didn't make that offer before). I told her it didn't matter, car is sold.
I looked at prices of those particular accessories in my interest. Most have much much less markup. But whatever - I know I could have asked them to put cash on the dashboard, too. Or perhaps Bucs' game pass or CEO's executive package. I'm pretty sure somebody somewhere got it with their car.
They got a little "put off" because I didn't call them back with a counter offer (didn't know I had to). Another person, who did a test drive earlier in the week came by, also. He also said I should have called him before closing the deal (again, didn't know I was required to do that). One lady who also test drove it earlier this week, called me last night said she was willing to buy for cash.
Where do these idiots come from - the same one's who loan money to their good for nothing boyfriends on Judge Judy? The last one I saw she wrote her boyfriend a loan on a $17,000 motorcycle, which he smashed up completely 2 weeks later AND the dope didn't have any insurance on it (you don't have to have insurance in my state - duh). They broke up 2 weeks after she loaned him the money. I digress....... so what do these morons think (I know I am now insulting morons everywhere), they come in at a low price but they can still be in on the bidding if the price goes up? At least with a house if you want a conditional offer you put down a downpayment for an agreed upon price, and if someone matches it you still have first option to buy. These clowns didn't have a downpayment, didn't have anything in writing.....and will only pay a higher amount if someone else thinks the car is worth it - kind of the opposite to dino (I like it, I'll pay this much for it, either you're with me or without me). If you car salesmaen put up with this kind of mentality you deserve a lot of credit.. :mad:
That's why I commented that I would' ve asked for employee pricing on the accessories which depending on what part could be up to 40%.
Just like you salesguys, always tearing apart and questioning the consumers sales stories. Just enjoy them and take them for what they're worth. Don't rain on "dinosaurs" parade.
When did Mazda drop the 4 year/50K mile bumper-to-bumper warranty? To me, that was a major selling point for them.
I think it was 2 or 3 years ago, it was surprising to me as well. When I bought my MPV in 04 it had the 4year/50k warranty. Which, as you stated, was a major selling point. A much better bumper to bumper than Honda or Toyota, or any of the domestics had.
Congrats on selling the Mercury GM. I thought about your selling plight a couple days ago when I saw a couple GM's being advertised in the local paper. I can't recall the details exactly, But they were retailing at a local dealership. They were mid 90's model with low mileage. .one had 40k miles. The asking price was around $4,700, for the car with 40k. The other car with 60k miles was priced around $4,300. So, it sounds like you did pretty good.
GM's They were early 90's (a 91 and 94 perhaps) model with low mileage. .one had 40k miles. The asking price was around $4,700, for the car with 40k. The other car with 60k miles was priced around $4,300. So, it sounds like you did pretty good.
Good car for that guy with the 10 year old Audi he still owed $6000 on!
jipster....learned that the Merc GMs definitely still have a following....mostly the silver hair set. I can understand their appeal. I enjoyed driving it while trying to sell it. The buyer got a very nice car, at a good price. I told him he bought what's probably the best $5K car in the state (I sincerely believe that).
Maybe could have netted another $100 for it. But, you never know how serious the buyer is about an offer until the greenbacks change hands. It's one thing to say you would have paid more. It's another thing entirely to actually pull the trigger with cash.
These folks put more time and effort into buying a $5K, 12 year old used car than I do into buying a new car costing 6X that amount. Met some nice folks. Met just as many crotchety, complaining PITAs, too.
Congrats on the sale, gg. Figured the weekend would do it.
I have normally sold my old cars myself until the last few. I've never run into the lunatics that you have. Makes me wonder of I'll ever do that again... It boggles eh mind what people think you ought to do on their behalf.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
driver100 wrote : "Please explain how a loan is much different? Seems to me you will be a preferred creditor but how much will be left at the end of the day.....inventory and some old car plants "
As you know, I am a free market economist, so chagrin is an understatement as I defend preservation of the three but two would be more likely. You raise valid points and I do not disagree with them. My primary concern is that we don't change the "R" word into the "D" word. Right now we are on the cusp having confidence shaken to the extreme in September and October. My second point is in regard to equity as the auto makers have financing arms , I fail to see how they are different from banks in that they lend. My third is that is that the US suppliers serve not only the big three but a wider audience of Japanese and German names that also manufacture here. And from a standpoint of quality and safety I fear the transferrance of the manufacture of car parts to the Chinese. Has management of the three been abysmal ? I will concur. Has Congress allowed the UAW to price our manufacturers into being non competative ? Ditto. So the term bail out po's all rightly so into umbrage. So make it a loan and if there are two, or one let the last man standing be responsible for the whole tab. Find a way to eliminate the UAW. But when I faulted the House Republicans(132) for defeating the bail out bill, ps. Hank Paulson is a moron. Financial hysteria should never be allowed to take root. Oh well, we'll pay for it. Students of the Great Depression will see that what you do is not as important as doing a calming supportive move quickly. Lost tax revenues and unemployment claims may make this discussion moot.
The Lord Grammarian doth write : "Here is another troubling thought. The banks, auto companies, consumers with bad mortgages, cities, and towns all want bail out monies. Just how much is there to go around? Just how much tax burden can Americans take on in these troubled times? While I certainly don't have any answers, I want my government to be specific as to what can be done with my tax dollars. All of you guys here have your careers on the line. Your representatives need to be told that and more. No one died and made Paulson or Congress king. The sooner that they know this, the better. Keep the faith. " Verily , they know not their hole from an [non-permissible content removed] in the ground, inversion intended. They are making it up as they go along. Apologies to all that wanted their elected representatives and appointee's to have a clue . The legal profession understands business not. Present company excluded. To me, that's what makes it so scary. Our financial lives are in the hands of poseurs. In a rational world, we'd all have a decent accounting of cost/benefit for our 700b. That is a big number. HP asked the treasury dept to provide a big number. When the RTC was passed in the '80's for a half a trillion dollars , the amount actually spent on S&L's was $153 b . Don't get me wrong, Congress spent the entire amount. Had Congress passed quickly and rescinded at leisure to nip hysteria in the bud, but if wishes were horses.... Now, Fugedaboutit, hysteria is so expensive. I acknowledge the grammatical and spelling mistakes of the previous post . Time is so fleeting and Edmunds 1/2 hour limit waits for no man. Or not past 29 minutes.
Such a nice quote, history does repeat itself. Credit to Sinclair Lewis. "His name was George F. Babbitt. He was 46 years old now, in April 1920, and he made nothing in particular, neither butter nor shoes nor poetry, but he was nimble in the calling of selling houses for more than people could afford to pay.
fezo....thanks. Like you, I've sold my fair share of vehicles. Don't know if I'm getting less patient, or if it's something else. But, I'm inclined to think the next time the situation arises, I'll probably trade. That wasn't an option in this case, however.
This particular sale was more a function of the price point, and who the car appealed to. That is, older folks who are much less impulsive, and focused more on the bottom dollar, than the value proposition. If you look at KBB, Edmunds, NADA, the car was worth $3,500. If you look at the value it represented, a very nice car with another 100,000+ miles left in it (as the eventual buyer understood), then he got a good deal.
As a side note, feeling a bit fortunate. Got a call from the guy who indentified himself as the person who had the other '96 GM in the paper with the slick 20 line ad. We talked for a bit. While I can't be certain, it sounded like he was dealing with some of the exact same people I did. I told him mine was sold. He mentioned how nice his car is. I told him mine was very nice, too. He hadn't snagged a buyer yet. But, wanted to know what mine sold for. Didn't get into particulars....only said it was over $4K. He's got even more competition right now. A new ad showed up in the paper this a.m. for a '97 GM, with a few more miles (77K vs his car's 68K). Price advertised is $2,800 for one that's a year newer. His '96 at $4,900 is going to be a tough sale.
j....I'm with you. Yugo, Oldsmobile, Plymouth,....none of them were relevant in today's market.
I think you could make the case that Pontiac (aside from the Aussie G8, what do they offer), GMC and maybe even Buick aren't relevant anymore, either. The G8 could just as easily be an Impala. Anything in the GMC stable is redundant in the Chevy line up. Anything Buick has could be a Cadillac, or maybe slot the LaCrosse above the Impala (Caprice?).
Fact is, GM has more production capability, more models, than the market will bare. I think those issues have to be addressed in parallel to any talk of government loans or buyouts.
...it's not OK to keep demanding floor mats or oil change if there was a commitment of buying when meeting certain conditions.
C’mon ‘dino’, don’t be an old softy. Haven’t you heard that oil is cheap today? I almost feel guilty buying gas for less than $4 a gallon. They would have easily bitten on a free oil change. You screwed up. :P
Other than that, enjoy your new wheels. That was an honest/interesting tale.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm happy for you on the sale. As a tribute to your parents, I'm glad that a nice, older person wanted and needed the GM. It closes the effort with a good feeling. As to those who wanted counter offers by telephone, you are not operating a dealership here. They had their opportunities. They should remember that, "He who hesitates is lost." May you and your mother enjoy the fruits of your labor.
How splendid that we can relate this great author to our varied interests on Edmunds. It was this great investigator for social justice who personally served in the meat packing plants of Chicago to reveal the foul activities being thrust upon an unknowing public. It is most unfortunate that he could not have lived long enough to do the same in our financial houses across this great nation. To the Big Three, you have my sympathy and concern. To AIG and the banks, you have my disgust and my distain.
>I know I could have asked them to put cash on the dashboard, too. Or perhaps Bucs' game pass or CEO's executive package. I'm pretty sure somebody somewhere got it with their car.
Awesome. I love this guys thinking. He knows when he is happy, without upsetting anybody else. Enjoy the new Subie my friend!!
And oh by the way, somebody somewhere got a Subie for free.......
I just talked to a ford dealer about brochure availability for this non-hybrid car. He said it would be available about Oct 2009.
I have read that orders for this car are already being taken and that production will start in late Dec. That should mean that it would be at the dealers in late Feb 2009.
The sales manager knew nothing of this and said that it was all they knew. I have seen the order guide for the 2010 fusion.
Is the dealer ignorant or is the information I have been reading for many weeks wrong?
Sometimes you run into unreasonable buyers. They like the world (market) to stop for them while they shop around, but won't have the courtesy of calling you back if they find another deal (better or worse or different).
I get ticked off sometimes especially with email inquiries about certain cars. Some take 10 email to ask 10 questions, when they could have picked up the phone and asked everything in one phone call.
Others ask for more photos, which you go out and take, and then hear nothing back from them.. :mad:
And then there's the ones that say "call me when you're about to sell it" :confuse: I'm thinking, and you'll do what then... put in an offer.... if you want it buy it now.
For the record, he didn't call me or my Nigerian shipper either
I had somebody repsond to one of our paid full page Buy and Sell ads, saying they want 4 of the same cars.
They then said that if I'm genuine then they're serious about doing business.
They leave a bogus phone number and firewalled email they're questioning if I'm the one that genuine..... NO We run full page ads in print and online advertising a fake dealership and fake cars so that we can attract scammers such as yourself :mad:
I've sold my fair share of vehicles. Don't know if I'm getting less patient, or if it's something else. But, I'm inclined to think the next time the situation arises, I'll probably trade
Yes, sometimes you get more for your trade selling privately, but it takes some time, patience, some money (like you pointed out your recon costs at $200), and a little bit of effort.
By trading in you pay for the convenience. Heck even selling outright to a dealership without trading is an option, but once again you'll pay for the coonvenience (with a typically lower trade in/buy-in value).
I just talked to a ford dealer about brochure availability for this non-hybrid car. He said it would be available about Oct 2009.
I have read that orders for this car are already being taken and that production will start in late Dec. That should mean that it would be at the dealers in late Feb 2009.
Are you asking about brochure or car availibility. Sometimes cars will come out beofre the brochures do. And yes, typically brochures do come out in the fall.
I strung a guy from England along one time for about two weeks on a used Chrysler Van we had. I went as far as to tell him to send the check and have the shipper contact me.
I got his check and all of his info and went back to the bank the check was stolen from and they said they would take the info but probably do nothing about it because it was ONLY $15K. Said that it is so rampant that they do not have time to chase every lead.
Chiko....There was a time when the Stanley Steamer was unique and relevant, too. Today? Not hardly!
The relevance is that history repeats iteslf. The end of the Stanley Steamer, Oldsmobile, Hudson, Studebaker, Plymouth might be as relevant as the loss of GM, Ford and/or Chrysler will be 10 years from now. :surprise:
I donj't get as many of these scammer emails as I used to. But I do get daily offers for millions of dollars in my email. Sometimes I'll play around and bait them for a few weeks. When they ask for the mojney to be transfered I usually tell them I already sent all my money to another banker from his country. :P
The reason I spent so much time with the other was to prove a point to a know it all Green Pea.
He was positive that the deal was legit and I told him from jump it was bull [non-permissible content removed]. So we let it run its course, when I got the check I asked Greeny if he was willing to bet his job on it. He passed.
He should have gone ahead and bet seeing he got fired for being disprespectful to a customer about 3 days later. LOL
Sometimes you run into unreasonable buyers. They like the world (market) to stop for them while they shop around, but won't have the courtesy of calling you back if they find another deal (better or worse or different).
Once I bought a Jeep. I liked the dealer that showed it to me originally and I was ready to buy but I wanted the lease payments to be $25 a month less. Said he wouldn't come down. Had an idea...called the auto club and they sent me to their best price dealer. With no effort they gave me a price $50 a month less and the buy back was $1500 lower at the end of the lease. I called the first guy and explained I am sorry but I bought it somewhere else...I did feel bad. He wasn't very nice about it and I think I would have been better off not calling. The final insult was the dealer I bought from took the car from the first guys lot...right color and equipment.
And then there's the ones that say "call me when you're about to sell it" I'm thinking, and you'll do what then... put in an offer.... if you want it buy it now.
This I do not get. Must be a jealousy complex. I only want it if someone else is going to buy it. Also, I didn't want to pay that much but since someone else will I guess it must be worth it?????? Same as the study that says if you are waiting for a parking space, the man or woman in it, will drive out slower, if they know someone wants their space.....all of a sudden it becomes more valuable :confuse:
I called the first guy and explained I am sorry but I bought it somewhere else...I did feel bad. He wasn't very nice about it
Some salespeople can be rude about it, and they take it personally when they should appreciate that someone at least had the decency to tell them they bought elsewhere.
Whenver I hear it from my customers, I always apologize we couldn't make a deal happen, congratulate them on their purchase, and let them know I am here if they have any questions about our products in the future, No hard feelings. It's just business. And I got a few deals this way too by referrals, and becasue the customers were surprised I wasn't mad at them.
Joel, is employee pricing better than getting a $5,000 rebate on a $30,000 car? Also, I have what is probably another dumb question. When they say, "employee pricing minus the rebate", does that mean that I get the rebate in addition or the rebate no longer applies? Thanks.
And then there's the ones that say "call me when you're about to sell it"
boom....I had a couple of those. They worded it differently, stating, "let me know when you really want to sell the car". Well, I didn't get it all tarted up, put an ad in the paper, nor put a "for sale" sign in if I didn't want to really sell it. To add to that, they got peeved when I didn't call them to tell them I was about to close the deal with someone else.
driver.....in all of the "big 3", Chrysler is the one that's teetered on the brink most often. Daimler stuck their hands in Chrysler's pockets. And, when it came time to update ChryCo's offerings, they ran away like they stole something (which they did). Still, Chrysler made its fair share of blunders (as did Ford and GM). They relied to heavily on Commander, JGC, Patriot, Caliber, Sebring, Avenger, all vehicles that weren't even close to class leading. You can even see Challenger about to quickly lose its luster with the '10 Camaro and Mustang right around the corner.
Ford's shopping spree with Jag, Rover, etc produced little to nothing to the bottom line. Maybe the new F-150 will save them. But, I wouldn't bet the house on that. At least Ford doesn't have 6 different domestic nameplates weighing them down as GM does (Chevy,Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac,GMC, Hummer).
To me, Chevy is relevant. So is Cadillac. The rest? They'll never be missed. You can throw Saab on that scrap heap, too (an acquisition I never did understand).
I remember reading Babbit in high school. After 50 years or so about the only thing I remember about it is the title. I went thru a lot of the school library during study hall. Anything to keep from actually studying.
Well we got one step closer to it being reality today. A political party to be named at the funeral stalled the show today and said that it will be next year some time.
Maybe it's because the midwest (specifically OH, MI have been hit hard by the failures of the auto industry.....especially recently. Wiping out GM, would be devastating to tons of people. I believe GM can be worth saving, and IS worth saving.
10 years from now, we all could be sitting around and saying we had the opportunity to save the U.S. auto industry, but didn't.
At least Ford doesn't have 6 different domestic nameplates weighing them down as GM does (Chevy,Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac,GMC, Hummer).
But, G.G., all that is irelevent. They didn't need all these lines but GM had to maintain their franchise dealer agreements...it cost them more wasted $$$s to get out of Oldsmobile. We can't undo what has been done. Question is what do we do now? Maybe a Chapt 11 would at least let them reorganize and get rid of some major problems. They could continue but be much smaller.
At lest the answer to last years site "Will styling save GM?" will soon be answered, just one year later.
richard64 wrote ; "How splendid that we can relate this great author to our varied interests on Edmunds. It was this great investigator for social justice who personally served in the meat packing plants of Chicago to reveal the foul activities being thrust upon an unknowing public. It is most unfortunate that he could not have lived long enough to do the same in our financial houses across this great nation. To the Big Three, you have my sympathy and concern. To AIG and the banks, you have my disgust and my distain . "
Most agreed. 86 years later, He is still very relevant. Also agreed on your sentiments regarding Aig, who was was bailed out because the risk to the US financial system was too great. 47 trillion in contra party risk is a bit too much . Ouch . Credit default swaps, a truly viscious instrument, it behooves the seller to actually have real collateral to back it up . Better yet, somehow we were able to survive and prosper before their invention. Do away with this self fulfilling prophecy? Though I speak in caged terms, each bail out was done because the risk to the system was too great. The public was not fully informed because it might lead to financial panic. But I guess that is all rather moot now.
h wrote: " I remember reading Babbit in high school. After 50 years or so about the only thing I remember about it is the title. I went thru a lot of the school library during study hall. Anything to keep from actually studying. "
P. Simon wrote " If I remember all the crap I learned in high school. It's a wonder I can think at all ". The classics do endure and we all are richer for them. One anecdote I have stated before is Benjamin Disraeli addressing the upper chamber of Parliment, when he was disparaging the lower chamber , the House of Commons , he stated that half of the members were total and complete idiots. The Speaker of the House demanded that he immediately retract his statements lest he be censured. He stood up and said, Mr. Speaker, I retract my statements, half of the House of Commons are not total and complete idiots. We don't build them like that anymore unfortunately. Today's lot pale in comparison. Thinking that you retained a tad more than you let on.
At lest the answer to last years site "Will styling save GM?" will soon be answered, just one year later.
driver.....Oh So True!
If the bailout does occur, then part of that money (since I'm a taxpayer, and should be allowed to have a say) should go towards shutting down the Hummer, the Buick, the Pontiac, the Saab, the GMC dealerships. If that means a buyout of the franchise, so be it.
What we don't know is if GM truly does have a buyer for Hummer (as has been reported). Hummer was a bad idea from the get go. What did they have? 2-3 years, at most, where people were buying them? I don't know if Saab would be profitable on its own (as it used to be). I see their local franchises (both of them) really in disarray. I'm assuming that the local situation is reflected across the country. It shouldn't take much (relatively speaking) to shutter them in the U.S. The big "nut" would be the combined Pontiac/Buick/GMC franchises.
In my local paper this a.m. the alleged fallout without the bailout would be as follows (full page ad sponsored by GM, probably ran in papers across the country)...
-5.5 million jobs lost within 3 years -Personal income would drop $150.7 billion in the first year -$156.4 billion lost in taxes, unemployment costs and health care assistance -Domestic auto production would fall to zero
Allegedly, these figures come from NADA.
I'll also assume many of those numbers came from dealerships. Fact is, dealerships will, and should close. There's roughly about 25%-30% more production capacity, as well as sales capacity as the market will bare. We can't save everyone. We can save enough of them to let the domestic automakers regroup, and rebuild, while paying the taxpayer back.
Hey GG, you tripped over the same rock I did----GM does not own Hummer. How was I supposed to know? But now I know.
This is from the AM General website, corporate history section:
"In December 1999, AM General and General Motors Corporation finalized an agreement to jointly pursue product, marketing and distribution opportunities for HUMMER. GM acquired the exclusive ownership of the HUMMER brand name worldwide and the current HUMMER was renamed the HUMMER H1. In 2002, AM General began assembling the HUMMER H2, a new "next generation" sport utility vehicle designed by GM, at a new factory in Mishawaka. GM now has responsibility for marketing and distributing all HUMMERs. Although GM acquired the HUMMER brand, they do not own any part of AM General."
Comments
To the dealer, it's a business transaction. Whatever deal nets them the most money, is the only determining factor. We take it personally when we find out our trades aren't worth what we thought they were. We're insulted by the offer. It's just business.
UPDATE on the Mercury. No suspense. It sold yesterday. All cash deal. Got within $100 of my target price (advertised for $4,995....was willing to take $4,700....sold for $4,600). While I really didn't do any reconditioning per se, I had a $50 detail done, a $60 newspaper ad, a $40 CARFAX run, $60 to fill up the tank (2X). Another $10 to buy a "For Sale" sign in the window. All total, with minimal "mop & glo" done, no mechanical checks done, I had $200+ in it, just to sell it. I've got a new found understanding about what dealerships put into new cars to get them in saleable condition, which is much more than what I did.
My first inclination, based on the initial response of the newspaper ad, was that it would sell by this weekend. Everybody came out of the woodwork yesterday. For the week, I did 11 test drives, 3 of them just yesterday. Had offers between $3,500 to the final sale price.
kyfdx....the buyer is from Crittendon....long trip to buy a car. Very nice man, though....late 60s.
The older "nit picky" couple showed up unannounced right after I closed the deal. They got a little "put off" because I didn't call them back with a counter offer (didn't know I had to). Another person, who did a test drive earlier in the week came by, also. He also said I should have called him before closing the deal (again, didn't know I was required to do that). One lady who also test drove it earlier this week, called me last night said she was willing to buy for cash. She wanted to know what I sold the Merc for. She wanted to know if $4,700 would have bought the car (it would have, but she didn't make that offer before). I told her it didn't matter, car is sold.
My Mother is happy, so I'm happy.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Where do these idiots come from - the same one's who loan money to their good for nothing boyfriends on Judge Judy? The last one I saw she wrote her boyfriend a loan on a $17,000 motorcycle, which he smashed up completely 2 weeks later AND the dope didn't have any insurance on it (you don't have to have insurance in my state - duh). They broke up 2 weeks after she loaned him the money. I digress....... so what do these morons think (I know I am now insulting morons everywhere), they come in at a low price but they can still be in on the bidding if the price goes up? At least with a house if you want a conditional offer you put down a downpayment for an agreed upon price, and if someone matches it you still have first option to buy. These clowns didn't have a downpayment, didn't have anything in writing.....and will only pay a higher amount if someone else thinks the car is worth it - kind of the opposite to dino (I like it, I'll pay this much for it, either you're with me or without me).
If you car salesmaen put up with this kind of mentality you deserve a lot of credit.. :mad:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
For the record, he didn't call me or my Nigerian shipper either.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Just like you salesguys, always tearing apart and questioning the consumers sales stories. Just enjoy them and take them for what they're worth. Don't rain on "dinosaurs" parade.
I think it was 2 or 3 years ago, it was surprising to me as well. When I bought my MPV in 04 it had the 4year/50k warranty. Which, as you stated, was a major selling point. A much better bumper to bumper than Honda or Toyota, or any of the domestics had.
Congrats on selling the Mercury GM. I thought about your selling plight a couple days ago when I saw a couple GM's being advertised in the local paper. I can't recall the details exactly, But they were retailing at a local dealership. They were mid 90's model with low mileage. .one had 40k miles. The asking price was around $4,700, for the car with 40k. The other car with 60k miles was priced around $4,300. So, it sounds like you did pretty good.
Good car for that guy with the 10 year old Audi he still owed $6000 on!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Maybe could have netted another $100 for it. But, you never know how serious the buyer is about an offer until the greenbacks change hands. It's one thing to say you would have paid more. It's another thing entirely to actually pull the trigger with cash.
These folks put more time and effort into buying a $5K, 12 year old used car than I do into buying a new car costing 6X that amount. Met some nice folks. Met just as many crotchety, complaining PITAs, too.
I have normally sold my old cars myself until the last few. I've never run into the lunatics that you have. Makes me wonder of I'll ever do that again... It boggles eh mind what people think you ought to do on their behalf.
"Please explain how a loan is much different? Seems to me you will be a preferred creditor but how much will be left at the end of the day.....inventory and some old car plants "
As you know, I am a free market economist, so chagrin is an understatement as I defend preservation of the three but two would be more likely. You raise valid points and I do not disagree with them. My primary concern is that we don't change the "R" word into the "D" word.
Right now we are on the cusp having confidence shaken to the extreme in September and October. My second point is in regard to equity as the auto makers have financing arms , I fail to see how they are different from banks in that they lend. My third is that is that the US suppliers serve not only the big three but a wider audience of Japanese and German names that also manufacture here. And from a standpoint of quality and safety I fear the transferrance of the manufacture of car parts to the Chinese.
Has management of the three been abysmal ?
I will concur. Has Congress allowed the UAW to price our manufacturers into being non competative ? Ditto. So the term bail out po's all rightly so into umbrage. So make it a loan and if there are two, or one let the last man standing be responsible for the whole tab. Find a way to eliminate the UAW. But when I faulted the House Republicans(132) for defeating the bail out bill, ps. Hank Paulson is a moron. Financial hysteria should never be allowed to take root. Oh well, we'll pay for it. Students of the Great Depression will see that what you do is not as important as doing a calming supportive move quickly. Lost tax revenues and unemployment claims may make this discussion moot.
"Here is another troubling thought. The banks, auto companies, consumers with bad mortgages, cities, and towns all want bail out monies. Just how much is there to go around? Just how much tax burden can Americans take on in these troubled times? While I certainly don't have any answers, I want my government to be specific as to what can be done with my tax dollars. All of you guys here have your careers on the line. Your representatives need to be told that and more. No one died and made Paulson or Congress king. The sooner that they know this, the better. Keep the faith. "
Verily , they know not their hole from an [non-permissible content removed] in the ground, inversion intended. They are making it up as they go along. Apologies to all that wanted their elected representatives and appointee's to have a clue . The legal profession understands business not. Present company excluded. To me, that's what makes it so scary. Our financial lives are in the hands of poseurs. In a rational world, we'd all have a decent accounting of cost/benefit for our 700b. That is a big number. HP asked the treasury dept to provide a big number. When the RTC was passed in the '80's for a half a trillion dollars , the amount actually spent on S&L's was $153 b . Don't get me wrong, Congress spent the entire amount. Had Congress passed quickly and rescinded at leisure to nip hysteria in the bud, but if wishes were horses.... Now, Fugedaboutit, hysteria is so expensive. I acknowledge the grammatical and spelling mistakes of the previous post . Time is so fleeting and Edmunds 1/2 hour limit waits for no man. Or not past 29 minutes.
Credit to Sinclair Lewis.
"His name was George F. Babbitt. He was 46 years old now, in April 1920, and he made nothing in particular, neither butter nor shoes nor poetry, but he was nimble in the calling of selling houses for more than people could afford to pay.
“Babbitt”
(1922) "
This particular sale was more a function of the price point, and who the car appealed to. That is, older folks who are much less impulsive, and focused more on the bottom dollar, than the value proposition. If you look at KBB, Edmunds, NADA, the car was worth $3,500. If you look at the value it represented, a very nice car with another 100,000+ miles left in it (as the eventual buyer understood), then he got a good deal.
As a side note, feeling a bit fortunate. Got a call from the guy who indentified himself as the person who had the other '96 GM in the paper with the slick 20 line ad. We talked for a bit. While I can't be certain, it sounded like he was dealing with some of the exact same people I did. I told him mine was sold. He mentioned how nice his car is. I told him mine was very nice, too. He hadn't snagged a buyer yet. But, wanted to know what mine sold for. Didn't get into particulars....only said it was over $4K. He's got even more competition right now. A new ad showed up in the paper this a.m. for a '97 GM, with a few more miles (77K vs his car's 68K). Price advertised is $2,800 for one that's a year newer. His '96 at $4,900 is going to be a tough sale.
To be totally selfish about that...I don't really care about their economy.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I think you could make the case that Pontiac (aside from the Aussie G8, what do they offer), GMC and maybe even Buick aren't relevant anymore, either. The G8 could just as easily be an Impala. Anything in the GMC stable is redundant in the Chevy line up. Anything Buick has could be a Cadillac, or maybe slot the LaCrosse above the Impala (Caprice?).
Fact is, GM has more production capability, more models, than the market will bare. I think those issues have to be addressed in parallel to any talk of government loans or buyouts.
C’mon ‘dino’, don’t be an old softy. Haven’t you heard that oil is cheap today? I almost feel guilty buying gas for less than $4 a gallon. They would have easily bitten on a free oil change. You screwed up. :P
Other than that, enjoy your new wheels. That was an honest/interesting tale.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Richard
How splendid that we can relate this great author to our varied interests on Edmunds. It was this great investigator for social justice who personally served in the meat packing plants of Chicago to reveal the foul activities being thrust upon an unknowing public. It is most unfortunate that he could not have lived long enough to do the same in our financial houses across this great nation. To the Big Three, you have my sympathy and concern. To AIG and the banks, you have my disgust and my distain.
Richard
Awesome. I love this guys thinking. He knows when he is happy, without upsetting anybody else. Enjoy the new Subie my friend!!
And oh by the way, somebody somewhere got a Subie for free.......
Eh? I don't get it.
They are not relevant in today's market, but they were relevant when they were on the top.
I have read that orders for this car are already being taken and that production will start in late Dec. That should mean that it would be at the dealers in late Feb 2009.
The sales manager knew nothing of this and said that it was all they knew. I have seen the order guide for the 2010 fusion.
Is the dealer ignorant or is the information I have been reading for many weeks wrong?
Chiko....There was a time when the Stanley Steamer was unique and relevant, too. Today? Not hardly!
This is true, starts on the 19th of this month.
Dealers complain about it but some of the best months we have ever had have been on employee pricing.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I get ticked off sometimes especially with email inquiries about certain cars. Some take 10 email to ask 10 questions, when they could have picked up the phone and asked everything in one phone call.
Others ask for more photos, which you go out and take, and then hear nothing back from them.. :mad:
And then there's the ones that say "call me when you're about to sell it" :confuse: I'm thinking, and you'll do what then... put in an offer.... if you want it buy it now.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I had somebody repsond to one of our paid full page Buy and Sell ads, saying they want 4 of the same cars.
They then said that if I'm genuine then they're serious about doing business.
They leave a bogus phone number and firewalled email they're questioning if I'm the one that genuine..... NO We run full page ads in print and online advertising a fake dealership and fake cars so that we can attract scammers such as yourself :mad:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Yes, sometimes you get more for your trade selling privately, but it takes some time, patience, some money (like you pointed out your recon costs at $200), and a little bit of effort.
By trading in you pay for the convenience. Heck even selling outright to a dealership without trading is an option, but once again you'll pay for the coonvenience (with a typically lower trade in/buy-in value).
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I have read that orders for this car are already being taken and that production will start in late Dec. That should mean that it would be at the dealers in late Feb 2009.
Are you asking about brochure or car availibility. Sometimes cars will come out beofre the brochures do. And yes, typically brochures do come out in the fall.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I got his check and all of his info and went back to the bank the check was stolen from and they said they would take the info but probably do nothing about it because it was ONLY $15K. Said that it is so rampant that they do not have time to chase every lead.
The relevance is that history repeats iteslf. The end of the Stanley Steamer, Oldsmobile, Hudson, Studebaker, Plymouth might be as relevant as the loss of GM, Ford and/or Chrysler will be 10 years from now. :surprise:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The reason I spent so much time with the other was to prove a point to a know it all Green Pea.
He was positive that the deal was legit and I told him from jump it was bull [non-permissible content removed]. So we let it run its course, when I got the check I asked Greeny if he was willing to bet his job on it. He passed.
He should have gone ahead and bet seeing he got fired for being disprespectful to a customer about 3 days later. LOL
Once I bought a Jeep. I liked the dealer that showed it to me originally and I was ready to buy but I wanted the lease payments to be $25 a month less. Said he wouldn't come down. Had an idea...called the auto club and they sent me to their best price dealer. With no effort they gave me a price $50 a month less and the buy back was $1500 lower at the end of the lease. I called the first guy and explained I am sorry but I bought it somewhere else...I did feel bad. He wasn't very nice about it and I think I would have been better off not calling. The final insult was the dealer I bought from took the car from the first guys lot...right color and equipment.
And then there's the ones that say "call me when you're about to sell it" I'm thinking, and you'll do what then... put in an offer.... if you want it buy it now.
This I do not get. Must be a jealousy complex. I only want it if someone else is going to buy it. Also, I didn't want to pay that much but since someone else will I guess it must be worth it?????? Same as the study that says if you are waiting for a parking space, the man or woman in it, will drive out slower, if they know someone wants their space.....all of a sudden it becomes more valuable :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Some salespeople can be rude about it, and they take it personally when they should appreciate that someone at least had the decency to tell them they bought elsewhere.
Whenver I hear it from my customers, I always apologize we couldn't make a deal happen, congratulate them on their purchase, and let them know I am here if they have any questions about our products in the future, No hard feelings. It's just business. And I got a few deals this way too by referrals, and becasue the customers were surprised I wasn't mad at them.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Richard
boom....I had a couple of those. They worded it differently, stating, "let me know when you really want to sell the car". Well, I didn't get it all tarted up, put an ad in the paper, nor put a "for sale" sign in if I didn't want to really sell it. To add to that, they got peeved when I didn't call them to tell them I was about to close the deal with someone else.
driver.....in all of the "big 3", Chrysler is the one that's teetered on the brink most often. Daimler stuck their hands in Chrysler's pockets. And, when it came time to update ChryCo's offerings, they ran away like they stole something (which they did). Still, Chrysler made its fair share of blunders (as did Ford and GM). They relied to heavily on Commander, JGC, Patriot, Caliber, Sebring, Avenger, all vehicles that weren't even close to class leading. You can even see Challenger about to quickly lose its luster with the '10 Camaro and Mustang right around the corner.
Ford's shopping spree with Jag, Rover, etc produced little to nothing to the bottom line. Maybe the new F-150 will save them. But, I wouldn't bet the house on that. At least Ford doesn't have 6 different domestic nameplates weighing them down as GM does (Chevy,Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac,GMC, Hummer).
To me, Chevy is relevant. So is Cadillac. The rest? They'll never be missed. You can throw Saab on that scrap heap, too (an acquisition I never did understand).
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Right. I don't even know why we are arguing??? :confuse:
If GM disappears, it(GM) will be irrelevant to this discussion 10 years from now, save some jokes like what the Yugo has to :P .
Maybe it's because the midwest (specifically OH, MI have been hit hard by the failures of the auto industry.....especially recently. Wiping out GM, would be devastating to tons of people. I believe GM can be worth saving, and IS worth saving.
10 years from now, we all could be sitting around and saying we had the opportunity to save the U.S. auto industry, but didn't.
But, G.G., all that is irelevent. They didn't need all these lines but GM had to maintain their franchise dealer agreements...it cost them more wasted $$$s to get out of Oldsmobile. We can't undo what has been done. Question is what do we do now? Maybe a Chapt 11 would at least let them reorganize and get rid of some major problems. They could continue but be much smaller.
At lest the answer to last years site "Will styling save GM?" will soon be answered, just one year later.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"How splendid that we can relate this great author to our varied interests on Edmunds. It was this great investigator for social justice who personally served in the meat packing plants of Chicago to reveal the foul activities being thrust upon an unknowing public. It is most unfortunate that he could not have lived long enough to do the same in our financial houses across this great nation. To the Big Three, you have my sympathy and concern. To AIG and the banks, you have my disgust and my distain . "
Most agreed. 86 years later, He is still very relevant. Also agreed on your sentiments regarding Aig, who was was bailed out because the risk to the US financial system was too great. 47 trillion in contra party risk is a bit too much . Ouch . Credit default swaps, a truly viscious instrument, it behooves the seller to actually have real collateral to back it up . Better yet, somehow we were able to survive and prosper before their invention. Do away with this self fulfilling prophecy? Though I speak in caged terms, each bail out was done because the risk to the system was too great. The public was not fully informed because it might lead to financial panic. But I guess that is all rather moot now.
" I remember reading Babbit in high school. After 50 years or so about the only thing I remember about it is the title. I went thru a lot of the school library during study hall. Anything to keep from actually studying. "
P. Simon wrote " If I remember all the crap I learned in high school. It's a wonder I can think at all ". The classics do endure and we all are richer for them. One anecdote I have stated
before is Benjamin Disraeli addressing the upper chamber of Parliment, when he was disparaging the lower chamber , the House of Commons , he stated that half of the members were total and complete idiots. The Speaker of the House demanded that he immediately retract his statements lest he be censured. He stood up and said, Mr. Speaker, I retract my statements, half of the House of Commons are not total and complete idiots. We don't build them like that anymore unfortunately. Today's lot pale in comparison. Thinking that you retained a tad more than you let on.
driver.....Oh So True!
If the bailout does occur, then part of that money (since I'm a taxpayer, and should be allowed to have a say) should go towards shutting down the Hummer, the Buick, the Pontiac, the Saab, the GMC dealerships. If that means a buyout of the franchise, so be it.
What we don't know is if GM truly does have a buyer for Hummer (as has been reported). Hummer was a bad idea from the get go. What did they have? 2-3 years, at most, where people were buying them? I don't know if Saab would be profitable on its own (as it used to be). I see their local franchises (both of them) really in disarray. I'm assuming that the local situation is reflected across the country. It shouldn't take much (relatively speaking) to shutter them in the U.S. The big "nut" would be the combined Pontiac/Buick/GMC franchises.
In my local paper this a.m. the alleged fallout without the bailout would be as follows (full page ad sponsored by GM, probably ran in papers across the country)...
-5.5 million jobs lost within 3 years
-Personal income would drop $150.7 billion in the first year
-$156.4 billion lost in taxes, unemployment costs and health care assistance
-Domestic auto production would fall to zero
Allegedly, these figures come from NADA.
I'll also assume many of those numbers came from dealerships. Fact is, dealerships will, and should close. There's roughly about 25%-30% more production capacity, as well as sales capacity as the market will bare. We can't save everyone. We can save enough of them to let the domestic automakers regroup, and rebuild, while paying the taxpayer back.
This is from the AM General website, corporate history section:
"In December 1999, AM General and General Motors Corporation finalized an agreement to jointly pursue product, marketing and distribution opportunities for HUMMER. GM acquired the exclusive ownership of the HUMMER brand name worldwide and the current HUMMER was renamed the HUMMER H1. In 2002, AM General began assembling the HUMMER H2, a new "next generation" sport utility vehicle designed by GM, at a new factory in Mishawaka. GM now has responsibility for marketing and distributing all HUMMERs. Although GM acquired the HUMMER brand, they do not own any part of AM General."