:mad: I traded the crippled Gremlin for a Hornet , wasn't a bad vehicle, great in winter. It was ny first 'not so great' experiance with a car salesman.
It must be a sign of the dismal state of affairs in the auto industry since you are the only forum member who has posted a sales story--and you're not even in the business-- in a couple of weeks. Or maybe it's just the only interesting sales story
I've been going on line to the Detroit Free Press website to get a better feel for the tenor of the mood in my home State. All I can say is that it sad and bleak. It's been bad anyway because of the sub-prime fallout, but the current auto manufacturers woe just add insult to injury.
Lost in the plethora of articles about (in)action on Capital Hill was an article about Mazda buying back a significant portion of the shares owned by Ford. It makes me wonder if that 30 year relationship is over.
My cousin's husband received a buyout from Ford in January (30+ years on the assembly line). Their younger son works for a Ford subsidiary and is furloughed indefinitely. The other son only works weekends at a Ford plant--and his plant makes some assembly for the Mustang and Mazda6. Ford may be in the "best" financial position of the Big 3 and sales may still be good in TN where Joel works, but no one else seems to be buying or buying enough.
Ha!!! I knew my C class was sabotaged from the get-go.
I find it a bit hard to believe that they sabotaged cars so that local repais shops would get extra business. Wouldn't may of the cars be emported though out of th earea and out of the country?
Plus if there were immediate problems, wouldn't warranty coever them anyways?
Sales are not fantastic here but we are sustaining. We are selling 4-5 a day, in the last few years we averaged 6-7 a day. So we are off around 60 units a month. Luckily for our dealership that just means are profit is less. We are not losing money just not making as much if that makes any sense.
We have a good owner who saw this coming over a year ago. He put a business plan in place then to deal with what we have now. We have gone from 21 sales people to 15 and dropped some of the convince jobs like an extra porter, extra parts driver, part time receptionist etc, etc. We are succeeding because we were ready for it.
Like he has told us before. We are used to this, Ford has been in its own recession for 5+ years
The dealers who are failing for the most part are the ones trying to operate in 2008 like they did in 1998. Two totally different environments.
Your sales are down roughly 20-40% percent and your dealership is still making a profit? Have you done anything to reduce expenses or was your dealership just doing very very well?
Hopefully some of you remember my story about selling my 2005 Acura TSX to purchase a new 2008 BMW 335i from a few weeks back. Nothing too exicting happening, but thought the board could use something somewhat related to the forum subject.
I was out of the country last week on business travel however my father had shown my vehicle and had a good looking lead on it. My buyer has been slow but is coming by tomorrow evening to do a 'final inspection' and is brining a deposit with him.
The interesting part of the story is that the salesperson has really been following up the last couple of days with both phone calls and emails. She has been eagerly trying to convince me to put a deposit down on the vehicle as 'technically it could sell any minute'. I explained that I was aware of that and understood if it happened but I simply wasn't in a position to put a deposit down. I know how fickle used car buyers tend to be from reading posts from others here. She has been offering to bring the vehicle directly to me, to put snow tires on it (at a charge of course), etc..
Where I am still scratching my head is that I was sitting in her office with my chequebook and none of this effort was put in or else I would have been driving it the last few weeks. Is it simply a game of cat and mouse?
I would still like to purchase the vehicle if mine sells. However she offered to add $500 to the deal when I was trading, and I still expect that $500 even though I have my own buyer, is that reasonable?
gogi....dealerships around me are pretty much the same as they've always been. Couple have changed hands, but nothing in the way of closures. There was only one I can remember....a Ford store in a nice neighborhood. But, that one merged with another dealer group. Had a Chevy dealer go down, but that was a snaky dealership anyway. It was bought out by the Chevy store I bought my Tahoe from....straight up dealership.
Aside from that, not much change.
Like your dealership, I think most of those around me have been around long enough that they've been through more than one downturn, and know how to change their business model to match current economic conditions.
I have noticed that there are fewer sales people around whenever I get my cars serviced at their respective dealerships. Perhaps some peripheral people have been cut, but hard to tell.
One of the two Porsche stores moved to a "tonier" locale and closed their original dealership. But, that was just a change of address.
The one dealership I can't figure out is a small Saab place....only one in the city. They've been in business for awhile, but in the past year, as I drive past, it looks more and more rundown. I've seen no advertising recently from them, either. That tells me they might be on the brink, too. But, if Saab is the only thing you're selling, that's understandable.
A "Smart" store was just opened up in the big auto megaplex. Owned by a large dealer group. I think I've actually seen all of one on the road around here, though. That can't bode well. I've also seen one Smart on a used lot (maybe the same one I saw on the road). Another bad sign.
Gimme a lot full of Mercury GMs, I bet I could sell all of them.......
boom....interesting article about Mercedes. A bit confusing to me, too. Daimler hasn't been real forthcoming about the steps they've taken to turn their quality/reliability conundrum around. May as well blame the employees.
Your sales are down roughly 20-40% percent and your dealership is still making a profit? Have you done anything to reduce expenses or was your dealership just doing very very well?
Like I said we have got rid of porters, parts drivers, and 6 sales people.
all that book smart stuff is great, but look what happens, he buys a Sterling. until i changed the way i drive home, i used to drive by a red one parked on the street every day. sometimes i would be stopped by the traffic light next to or near it. it is still in really nice condition.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
OH MY GOSH!!!!!!!!!!!! How in Southern grits did I ever confuse those two?! My lit professors and my history professors must be spinning in their graves. Let's see now. I could use the following excuses:
1. Sinclair Lewis wrote MAIN STREET which deals with social reform. No, that's too far off the mark. 2. First and last names are easily confused. No, that sounds like GG's Mercedes article. 3. Upton and Sinclair lived in the same century. No, that sounds too much like the Model T and the horse and buggy. 4. Old age has taken its toll on the brain. That's it! I'll use that one. :P
Thanks for the correction. Don't blame Duke. I wrote the incorrect information. Don't tell jmonroe. He'll never let me forget it.
Now, now Kirstie. In 1976, my father purchased a new Buick Regal for my mother. She enjoyed it for 20 years doing only normal maintenance. At her death in 1996, I sold it for $1,000. It looked and drove as it did in 1976. What a car.
I remember when they first announced the Sterling. I'm thinking "Wow! A Honda with a British interior. Should be great." Fortunately by the time I could really think about it the jury was in.....
Ya know, I was going to get to that bit about Sinclair Lewis vs. Upton Sinclair.... Years ago at teh NY Worlds Fair the IBM people had a computer that would spit out the most significant event the day you were born. For me it said I was born on the day Sinclair Lewis died. Nice knowing you....
The Gremlin indeed had to be the most appropriately named car ever. Had a friend who had one. Makes me wonder - I also had a friend who had a PAcer and replaced it with an Alliance. Makes me wonder about what sort of friends I have.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
by 'porters' do you mean the drivers that drop people off somwhere when bringing they vehicle in for service? that would not be good if my main service dealer did that. over the years the morming driver an i have a pretty easy conversational relationship. we talk about vacations, kids(his grandkids), home projects, etc...
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Like every time a major program starts my phone rings off the hook with people telling me we ripped them off in the last few days not letting them buy on the current program.
Out of 6 calls I went 4-1-1. 4 of the calls they came out better on the deal they got because the rebate is lower now and they got as good or better deal, one was so belligerent with me from jump that I was not about to do anything for her, and 1 of them we wrote a check back to for $800.
We didn't have to but it was a young kid buying his first car and I did not want his first experience to be a sour one.
The belligerent one started the conversation off with. "You ripped me off and I am bringing back the car" My first question to her which I thought was a good one was, "Who am I speaking with?" Then she said you mean you rip so many people off you can't even keep us straight?
I know I should not have burst out laughing at that point but it was funny. She never really settled down but told me who she was, called me several names and told me her husband was going to kick my [non-permissible content removed].
I let her vent then said "Mam I am going to ask you one question. If I was to call you 3 days after you bought a car and told you that the programs got worse and I wanted a check for $500 what would you say? She obviously said no. The I pointed out that is what she was asking me to do. She told me her husband would be here at 5:00, I told her to have bail money available because the police would be waiting and all calls here are recorded. (there not) She hung up, 5:00 "clock has come and gone. Just another day in the car biz....LOL
If I could predict the rebates and prgrmas then I would, but unfortunately we can't. Some people just don't understand that.
When I had these situation I tell them it's same even for us sales guys. If we buy a car one month and next month the deals are better, we can't even change our own deals.
The lady thought the universe revolves around her and she must haver been the only cuatomer yuo guys had in the last 2 months, therefore you should have remembered. :P
....and 1 of them we wrote a check back to for $800.
I got about $80 back on a set of new Taylor Made golf clubs using the "nice" approach... basically being myself. Can't see why anyone would expect a refund under the circumstances.
I told her to have bail money available because the police would be waiting and all calls here are recorded. (there not)
Ahhh... reinforcing that old stereotype of salesmen not telling the truth. :P
i'm thinking i will just hire the guy to drive me to work and bring me back if i have to. the other alternative is to have my wife drive me instead, which is a pain for her. our company just cut staff by 10% today, the guy who used to drop me off at the dealer on his way home was one of them. anyways, i think a 4cyl escape would be a good choice for my wife's next vehicle, so i am going to see if she will go to the local auto show this weekend.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
>and 1 of them we wrote a check back to for $800. We didn't have to but it was a young kid buying his first car and I did not want his first experience to be a sour one.
Now that's a class act! :shades:
Reminds me of the first car we ordered from the dealer who has sold us the next 5 or so (I've lost count). My experience had been dealers wanted a small, trivial deposit (Cincinnati). His response was "No, unless it's some combination we would have trouble selling. We're in a small community and a handshake is our word. We try to treat people right."
Dealer in London England actually has a buy one get one free offer going!
That's old news in modern Louisville. The Kia Store has been running the "buy one get one free" deal for nearly a decade. Basically buy a expensive loaded top of the line car, and they throw in a stripped down low end basic as the freebie.
That's old news in modern Louisville. The Kia Store has been running the "buy one get one free" deal for nearly a decade. Basically buy a expensive loaded top of the line car, and they throw in a stripped down low end basic as the freebie.
Yeah, those inane Kia Store radio ads are just awful. It sounds like: First Prize- A New Kia! Second Prize- Two New Kias!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Jag & Land Rover dealer in Lexington, KY closed today. Said they would continue to provide service in their Louisville store by picking up & returning vehicles.
A couple of you may recall me as a long time lurker who reads all but seldom writes. When I saw the Pacer I had to write, I'm always a GM guy, about 37 or so, but in 1976 I bought a brand new Pacer, why I have no idea, and honestly it was lime green.
Now I take it to work the first day and my friends are speechless. I,m a big engine Chevy, Olds tank kind of guy, I took a lot of guff. Anyway about the third day when the full gas tank gets down to about a half, every time I stop there is a very loud slosh noise, take off another loud slosh. Got to be the gas tank baffles.
I take it right away to the dealer, say I'm getting seasick here, the service manager looks me straight in the eye and says, don't worry, they all do that, just keep it filled, don't let the tank get lower than three quarter. Now I know I'm in trouble.
I insisted on a new gas tank with proper baffles, they grudingly installed it and sure enough, "they all do that." Dumped it 4 months later to a retired mail man who had two hearing aids. I LOVE PACERS.
, but in 1976 I bought a brand new Pacer, why I have no idea, and honestly it was lime green.
I guess anything that ugly might as well be lime green..kind of sets off the ugliness. I almost bought one, the big talk at the time was gas economy and the Pacer was supposed to help...but all that heavy glass just wiped out any weight advantage of a smaller car.
So, the Big 3 auto guys come to Washington for a handout - in their own private jets!!!! Couldn't they jet pool?
Seems the union doesn't want to give up anything either, to save their jobs. Let me see, $72 an hour X 40 hours is almost $3000 a week....not bad. Should we plow tax payer money in to save those workers, hate to see them have a lower standard of living?
How do the sales guys feel about it.....maybe if the factory guys took a cut in pay the cost of a vehicle could come down and actually might make the cars more reasonably priced compared to the competition?
I believe the dealerships that have the best chance of survival will be the ones who crank up the customer service.
As most of the sales people here will tell you, a good portion of their business comes from referrals. Only way to get referrals is to give good customer service.
joel....sounds like you handled the "upset" customers about as well as you could regarding the incentives. The ones who felt you treated them right, will tell others. The one that was all up "in your face" probably couldn't be saved, no matter what.
Off topic, but related to customer service, as I mentioned, I had to 'rebuild" a part of my home due to storms we had in Sept. Part of that entailed rebuilding a home theater that I had built and outfitted myself. Does it look like one of those home theaters that you see in the magazines? No, but I got pretty close.
Well, while rebuilding and "re-outfitting" it with new electronics to replace those electronic pieces that met their demise courtesy of a broken water pipe, I went to a place that carried the "higher end" gear. While it was impossible to replace my stuff with "like for like", my insurance company did let me put a number on the ruined equipment. So, with insurance check in hand, I went to what I considered the store most likely to allow me to get as close as possible to what I had before (actually, in some aspects, the new stuff was an upgrade). The store's stock in trade was they offer the "best of" service and equipment. I was actually helped by the store's owner.
After spending about $17,000 in electronics with them several weeks ago, I just found out this week that they are going out of business. Didn't know this until I went to the store to buy more cabling. They were running a "going out of business" sale. Not much left. But the issue of service came up. They didn't care. They said I'd have to find somewhere else to go for any service on expensive AV gear.
Saw the owner again. Now, his response is quite different than it was when I was spending money with him. Now, the tag line is "tough" regarding service.
Can't stop companies, or dealerships from going out of business. But, soften the blow a little bit by making arrangements for your customers to find another avenue for support and service.
> Big 3 auto guys come to Washington for a handout - in their own private jets!!!!
A better question is:
Ask the congressmen how they get to and fro their districts? Do they drive their Prius back to their districts? Do they fly coach? Do they hitch a ride on a donor's corporate jet? As speaker Pelosi needed a larger government plane because she had to have her staff with her. Someone probably has a link to that story. The standard military plane wasn't big enough for her.
Ask how the congressmen got to the Hill that morning? Did they car pool in their limousines? Or their taxis? or their TCH? Bet they had US pay for their chauffeured limo, government-owned.
Hypocrisy on their parts. It's like the media makes a big deal about $150,000 wardrobe.
Instead of fixing problems by doing sound investigation into how to fix, we have politicians making political statements for their next campaign. These speeches are adding to the negative attitudes about the economy and about the US car makers slowing sales in the showrooms. This is slowing sales of any car brands because people are scared to death now that they are going to be jobless, homeless, and living out of a shopping bag at the local shelter.
The people doing the questioning should be business folk with degrees. Or Ross Perot could ask some good questions and offer solutions. Because of the politics being involved, I see even more of a downturn and a lengthening of the recession. I see showrooms and used car lots empty of customers because they are all staying home.
driver.....one of my closest friends works at the local Ford transmission plant. According to him, that $72/hour figure is wildly optimistic. My friend is an engineer, so he's salary. But, he started life on the production floor. Granted, Ford kicked in a good amount towards his education, to become an engineer. And, his benefits are really good.
But, he said the typical hourly guy makes about $50K/year. If they work a lot of overtime (which has been extremely scarce this year) he said some will approach $100K/year.
Ford is trying to shuttle both the hourly and salary guys out the door with "buyouts". Most have no training or skills to snag anything close to what they are currently making, however.
Those folks are either going to be forced out (with a permanent layoff, with nothing to show for it). Or, they are taking their chances that Ford decides to keep them. Ford just shut down one entire plant in the area. Who knows whether the other one will remain open.
Graphic Guy- you are right, when they say the workers make 72 dollars an hour that figure includes benefits. So in reality they probably make 25-30 dollars an hour in "cash," which still is OK.
when they say the workers make 72 dollars an hour that figure includes benefits. So in reality they probably make 25-30 dollars an hour in "cash," which still is OK.
Let's not forget that they probably have no more than a high school diploma, maybe less. Starting salaries for teachers with a masters degree is less, at least here in Florida. Union wages must go for the Big 3 to survive, and that's after they consolidate down to the Big 2.
Also, I love how the press reports this, "Bailing out the auto industry", which is not true at all. The headlines should read, "Bailing out failed American companies in the auto industry".
.....maybe if the factory guys took a cut in pay the cost of a vehicle could come down and actually might make the cars more reasonably priced compared to the competition?
I don’t think so. Honda, Toyota and Nissan pay their workers less yet their cars don’t reflect the reduced operating costs. In fact, you’ll pay more for a similarly equipped Accord than you will for a Malibu.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m in no way endorsing the pay scale of the UAW but a car costs what it is perceived to be worth by the public. Detroit lost that perception long ago but they’re coming back.
Will a bail out work? Who knows for sure but the alternative is going to be worse, a lot worse, in the short run.
I’m for cutting the dead wood (brains really) at the top and working on down. There is a way, it just can’t be like our fathers Oldsmobile.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
>Toyota and Nissan pay their workers less yet their cars don’t reflect the reduced operating costs. In fact, you’ll pay more for a similarly equipped Accord than you will for a Malibu.
Very savvy point there. They should be priced lower.
Maybe even worse than buying a Pacer: When the Pacer came out, my Mother decided that it was so ugly that it was cute and that every woman in the US would want one. So, she bought a bunch of AMC stock... So, at least you got some of your "Pacer" money back!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I basically said the same thing to my Evil Wife as we watched the coverage of the hearings. It does seem, that even those with the best of intentions, once they get to DC they become so insulated to the every day realities of the real world that they don't realize how foolish they look to the REAL, REGULAR, HARD WORKING, MORTGAGE/TUITION/CAR LOAN REPAYING PEOPLE! Who are not members of PACs or Lobbies....
Greed, for lackof a better word, does not work. Greed is not good... :sick:
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
j....I agree. If any given car is priced to high (for the perceived value it represents), it won't sell. Being a marketing person myself, there are a ton of metrics we can use to "predict" what any given product can and will sell for. I'm sure those marketing "types" in the automotive industry have the most minutest metrics that even I've never seen.
Labor costs (all overhead costs) are figured into those metrics.
But, once that car hits the dealer's lot, things get a bit skewed from those metrics. Does the manufacture employ a rebate structure? Is the dealership trying to "blow out" his stock of lime green cars? Or, as we have right now, dealerships are trying to move iron and may sell for less based strictly on the current downward trend in the biz?
If any, or all of those are true, you can throw marketing metrics out the window.
Marysville, OH....home of American Honda, isn't that far away from me. Talk to some of the workers there right now, and you'll find that in the current climate, they're probably making more than their UAW counterparts and the local Ford plant. That's because they're working more hours than those who are employed at Ford.
So, even a fixed cost like labor can be hard to pin down.
When I was shopping for my Accord, I also cross shopped the Malibu. At the time, they were "neck and neck" in terms of real world dollars to buy. Today, you can buy a Malibu cheaper than you can an Accord based solely on the fact that, although Honda is feeling the crunch, it's not nearly as bad as it is for Chevy.
So, even though it's perceived that the Ford or Chevy labor rate is more. In reality, in true dollars paid, those dollars are probably closer than we think.
Dealer in London England actually has a buy one get one free offer going!
Put off any car purchases, it might come to a dealer near you.
That's going to be my new marketing campaign for the rest of the month. I typically test the waters with different marketing strategies that I can run for free online and locally.
If they work we adopt them to our paid print and radio ads.
All dealers are in rocky waters right now. The ones who will survive thedownturn are ones that prepared for it before (as Joel said), ones with good customer base for referrals (as GG said), and ones that have creative marketing that make them stand out from the rest and get people in the doors.
And don't get me wrong..... all my marketing is legit, I don't run any bait and swtich programs, or have mystery base cars that are never in stock.
It will be our secret. It's such a great book and helped lead to some needed reforms although from what I read the meat packing industry still has a long way to go. On the plus side at least they aren't asking for a bailout.
Back in the early 70s the US went through a period where meat prices skyrocketed. There was a clever editorial cartoon that showed police examining a hole used by thieves to burrow under a bank to break into the adjacent butcher shop.
A couple of weeks ago I saw an editorial cartoon that showed a floating Titanic (Chrysler) tethered by a couple of small cables to the Hindenburg Zeppelin (GM). The caption read: A GM-Chrysler Merger.
I don't think a Honda is any more expensive than a comparable Ford or Chevrolet. At the Auto Show earlier this month, I wandered around and looked at the stickers and I sure didn't see much difference.
The domestic makers just shot themselves in the foot by building cars people didn't want and they let quality slip. Quality is much improved now...I know that but the damage was done and some people just won't take a chance.
I really don't want the domestics to fail and the thought of this happening is downright scary when everything is considered.
What I am really getting tired of are customers who are taking pleasure in this downturn. They tell us why we should lose thousands of dollars by taking a loser deal because..." don't you know how bad things are".
Today, you can buy a Malibu cheaper than you can an Accord based solely on the fact that, although Honda is feeling the crunch, it's not nearly as bad as it is for Chevy.
You can buy a Malibu cheaper, even though it probably has more content than a Honda (extras thrown in). The Malibu probably costs more to build at $72 hour including pension, benefits etc. if the Honda costs $48 an hour for labor.......BUT Honda is making a profit and is not going out of business.
One more thing, it's nice to see the U.S. cars catching up to the Japanese for fit, quality and reliability, but what would we be driving if it wasn't for the import competition....the U.S. companies are barely keeping pace, and some like Chryco are way behind, so without that benchmark we'd probably be driving Pacers.
Ask the congressmen how they get to and fro their districts? Do they drive their Prius back to their districts?
True, but they are not coming to Congress begging for a hand out - they can basically take what they need. It is a ludicrous scene, that would make an excellent political cartoon....3 guys on their hands and knees begging for money to keep their companies afloat.....while they each arrive in their own corporate jet. If it wasn't so sad and scary it would be funny. And, how much of the 25 billion will go toward keeping these perks moving.
In Canada the auto workers union has already stated strongly their workers will not accept a cut back in wages. Like why should they suffer?
I am not an economist, or an accountant, (An economist is an accountant with some personality) but what if the government spent some money to use as very low interest loan money to buy cars? Would an indirect stimulus do more than throwing more money down the drain? Kinda like sub-prime car loans, only done with a good down payment.
Comments
By the way, that was Upton Sinclair, not Sinclair Lewis who wrote the well-known indictment of the Chicago meat packers called The Jungle.
Gogiboy :P
It must be a sign of the dismal state of affairs in the auto industry since you are the only forum member who has posted a sales story--and you're not even in the business-- in a couple of weeks. Or maybe it's just the only interesting sales story
I've been going on line to the Detroit Free Press website to get a better feel for the tenor of the mood in my home State. All I can say is that it sad and bleak. It's been bad anyway because of the sub-prime fallout, but the current auto manufacturers woe just add insult to injury.
Lost in the plethora of articles about (in)action on Capital Hill was an article about Mazda buying back a significant portion of the shares owned by Ford. It makes me wonder if that 30 year relationship is over.
My cousin's husband received a buyout from Ford in January (30+ years on the assembly line). Their younger son works for a Ford subsidiary and is furloughed indefinitely. The other son only works weekends at a Ford plant--and his plant makes some assembly for the Mustang and Mazda6. Ford may be in the "best" financial position of the Big 3 and sales may still be good in TN where Joel works, but no one else seems to be buying or buying enough.
Gogiboy
I find it a bit hard to believe that they sabotaged cars so that local repais shops would get extra business. Wouldn't may of the cars be emported though out of th earea and out of the country?
Plus if there were immediate problems, wouldn't warranty coever them anyways?
Interesting but confusing.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
We have a good owner who saw this coming over a year ago. He put a business plan in place then to deal with what we have now. We have gone from 21 sales people to 15 and dropped some of the convince jobs like an extra porter, extra parts driver, part time receptionist etc, etc. We are succeeding because we were ready for it.
Like he has told us before. We are used to this, Ford has been in its own recession for 5+ years
The dealers who are failing for the most part are the ones trying to operate in 2008 like they did in 1998. Two totally different environments.
I was out of the country last week on business travel however my father had shown my vehicle and had a good looking lead on it. My buyer has been slow but is coming by tomorrow evening to do a 'final inspection' and is brining a deposit with him.
The interesting part of the story is that the salesperson has really been following up the last couple of days with both phone calls and emails. She has been eagerly trying to convince me to put a deposit down on the vehicle as 'technically it could sell any minute'. I explained that I was aware of that and understood if it happened but I simply wasn't in a position to put a deposit down. I know how fickle used car buyers tend to be from reading posts from others here. She has been offering to bring the vehicle directly to me, to put snow tires on it (at a charge of course), etc..
Where I am still scratching my head is that I was sitting in her office with my chequebook and none of this effort was put in or else I would have been driving it the last few weeks. Is it simply a game of cat and mouse?
I would still like to purchase the vehicle if mine sells. However she offered to add $500 to the deal when I was trading, and I still expect that $500 even though I have my own buyer, is that reasonable?
Thanks in advance.
It's right out of "Casablanca"--LOL!
"Colonel Strasser has been shot. Round up the usual suspects!"
Aside from that, not much change.
Like your dealership, I think most of those around me have been around long enough that they've been through more than one downturn, and know how to change their business model to match current economic conditions.
I have noticed that there are fewer sales people around whenever I get my cars serviced at their respective dealerships. Perhaps some peripheral people have been cut, but hard to tell.
One of the two Porsche stores moved to a "tonier" locale and closed their original dealership. But, that was just a change of address.
The one dealership I can't figure out is a small Saab place....only one in the city. They've been in business for awhile, but in the past year, as I drive past, it looks more and more rundown. I've seen no advertising recently from them, either. That tells me they might be on the brink, too. But, if Saab is the only thing you're selling, that's understandable.
A "Smart" store was just opened up in the big auto megaplex. Owned by a large dealer group. I think I've actually seen all of one on the road around here, though. That can't bode well. I've also seen one Smart on a used lot (maybe the same one I saw on the road). Another bad sign.
Gimme a lot full of Mercury GMs, I bet I could sell all of them.......
boom....interesting article about Mercedes. A bit confusing to me, too. Daimler hasn't been real forthcoming about the steps they've taken to turn their quality/reliability conundrum around. May as well blame the employees.
Like I said we have got rid of porters, parts drivers, and 6 sales people.
until i changed the way i drive home, i used to drive by a red one parked on the street every day.
sometimes i would be stopped by the traffic light next to or near it. it is still in really nice condition.
1. Sinclair Lewis wrote MAIN STREET which deals with social reform. No, that's too far off the mark.
2. First and last names are easily confused. No, that sounds like GG's Mercedes article.
3. Upton and Sinclair lived in the same century. No, that sounds too much like the Model T and the horse and buggy.
4. Old age has taken its toll on the brain. That's it! I'll use that one. :P
Thanks for the correction. Don't blame Duke. I wrote the incorrect information. Don't tell jmonroe. He'll never let me forget it.
Richard
Now, now Kirstie. In 1976, my father purchased a new Buick Regal for my mother. She enjoyed it for 20 years doing only normal maintenance. At her death in 1996, I sold it for $1,000. It looked and drove as it did in 1976. What a car.
Richard
Hey, I resemble that remark !! Buying that Sterling was just part of my long range plan to take over the universe.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Ya know, I was going to get to that bit about Sinclair Lewis vs. Upton Sinclair.... Years ago at teh NY Worlds Fair the IBM people had a computer that would spit out the most significant event the day you were born. For me it said I was born on the day Sinclair Lewis died. Nice knowing you....
The Gremlin indeed had to be the most appropriately named car ever. Had a friend who had one. Makes me wonder - I also had a friend who had a PAcer and replaced it with an Alliance. Makes me wonder about what sort of friends I have.
that would not be good if my main service dealer did that.
over the years the morming driver an i have a pretty easy conversational relationship.
we talk about vacations, kids(his grandkids), home projects, etc...
Out of 6 calls I went 4-1-1. 4 of the calls they came out better on the deal they got because the rebate is lower now and they got as good or better deal, one was so belligerent with me from jump that I was not about to do anything for her, and 1 of them we wrote a check back to for $800.
We didn't have to but it was a young kid buying his first car and I did not want his first experience to be a sour one.
The belligerent one started the conversation off with. "You ripped me off and I am bringing back the car" My first question to her which I thought was a good one was, "Who am I speaking with?" Then she said you mean you rip so many people off you can't even keep us straight?
I know I should not have burst out laughing at that point but it was funny. She never really settled down but told me who she was, called me several names and told me her husband was going to kick my [non-permissible content removed].
I let her vent then said "Mam I am going to ask you one question. If I was to call you 3 days after you bought a car and told you that the programs got worse and I wanted a check for $500 what would you say? She obviously said no. The I pointed out that is what she was asking me to do. She told me her husband would be here at 5:00, I told her to have bail money available because the police would be waiting and all calls here are recorded. (there not) She hung up, 5:00 "clock has come and gone. Just another day in the car biz....LOL
The
If I could predict the rebates and prgrmas then I would, but unfortunately we can't. Some people just don't understand that.
When I had these situation I tell them it's same even for us sales guys. If we buy a car one month and next month the deals are better, we can't even change our own deals.
The lady thought the universe revolves around her and she must haver been the only cuatomer yuo guys had in the last 2 months, therefore you should have remembered. :P
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I got about $80 back on a set of new Taylor Made golf clubs using the "nice" approach... basically being myself. Can't see why anyone would expect a refund under the circumstances.
I told her to have bail money available because the police would be waiting and all calls here are recorded. (there not)
Ahhh... reinforcing that old stereotype of salesmen not telling the truth. :P
You think you could have whupped him?
Hey this Ole Paratrooper still has a few tricks up his sleeve
the other alternative is to have my wife drive me instead, which is a pain for her.
our company just cut staff by 10% today, the guy who used to drop me off at the dealer on his way home was one of them.
anyways, i think a 4cyl escape would be a good choice for my wife's next vehicle, so i am going to see if she will go to the local auto show this weekend.
Now that's a class act! :shades:
Reminds me of the first car we ordered from the dealer who has sold us the next 5 or so (I've lost count). My experience had been dealers wanted a small, trivial deposit (Cincinnati). His response was "No, unless it's some combination we would have trouble selling. We're in a small community and a handshake is our word. We try to treat people right."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Put off any car purchases, it might come to a dealer near you.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's old news in modern Louisville. The Kia Store has been running the "buy one get one free" deal for nearly a decade. Basically buy a expensive loaded top of the line car, and they throw in a stripped down low end basic as the freebie.
Yeah, those inane Kia Store radio ads are just awful. It sounds like:
First Prize- A New Kia!
Second Prize- Two New Kias!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Now I take it to work the first day and my friends are speechless. I,m a big engine Chevy, Olds tank kind of guy, I took a lot of guff. Anyway about the third day when the full gas tank gets down to about a half, every time I stop there is a very loud slosh noise, take off another loud slosh. Got to be the gas tank baffles.
I take it right away to the dealer, say I'm getting seasick here, the service manager looks me straight in the eye and says, don't worry, they all do that, just keep it filled, don't let the tank get lower than three quarter. Now I know I'm in trouble.
I insisted on a new gas tank with proper baffles, they grudingly installed it and sure enough, "they all do that." Dumped it 4 months later to a retired mail man who had two hearing aids. I LOVE PACERS.
I guess anything that ugly might as well be lime green..kind of sets off the ugliness. I almost bought one, the big talk at the time was gas economy and the Pacer was supposed to help...but all that heavy glass just wiped out any weight advantage of a smaller car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Seems the union doesn't want to give up anything either, to save their jobs. Let me see, $72 an hour X 40 hours is almost $3000 a week....not bad. Should we plow tax payer money in to save those workers, hate to see them have a lower standard of living?
How do the sales guys feel about it.....maybe if the factory guys took a cut in pay the cost of a vehicle could come down and actually might make the cars more reasonably priced compared to the competition?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
As most of the sales people here will tell you, a good portion of their business comes from referrals. Only way to get referrals is to give good customer service.
joel....sounds like you handled the "upset" customers about as well as you could regarding the incentives. The ones who felt you treated them right, will tell others. The one that was all up "in your face" probably couldn't be saved, no matter what.
Off topic, but related to customer service, as I mentioned, I had to 'rebuild" a part of my home due to storms we had in Sept. Part of that entailed rebuilding a home theater that I had built and outfitted myself. Does it look like one of those home theaters that you see in the magazines? No, but I got pretty close.
Well, while rebuilding and "re-outfitting" it with new electronics to replace those electronic pieces that met their demise courtesy of a broken water pipe, I went to a place that carried the "higher end" gear. While it was impossible to replace my stuff with "like for like", my insurance company did let me put a number on the ruined equipment. So, with insurance check in hand, I went to what I considered the store most likely to allow me to get as close as possible to what I had before (actually, in some aspects, the new stuff was an upgrade). The store's stock in trade was they offer the "best of" service and equipment. I was actually helped by the store's owner.
After spending about $17,000 in electronics with them several weeks ago, I just found out this week that they are going out of business. Didn't know this until I went to the store to buy more cabling. They were running a "going out of business" sale. Not much left. But the issue of service came up. They didn't care. They said I'd have to find somewhere else to go for any service on expensive AV gear.
Saw the owner again. Now, his response is quite different than it was when I was spending money with him. Now, the tag line is "tough" regarding service.
Can't stop companies, or dealerships from going out of business. But, soften the blow a little bit by making arrangements for your customers to find another avenue for support and service.
A better question is:
Ask the congressmen how they get to and fro their districts? Do they drive their Prius back to their districts? Do they fly coach? Do they hitch a ride on a donor's corporate jet? As speaker Pelosi needed a larger government plane because she had to have her staff with her. Someone probably has a link to that story. The standard military plane wasn't big enough for her.
Ask how the congressmen got to the Hill that morning? Did they car pool in their limousines? Or their taxis? or their TCH? Bet they had US pay for their chauffeured limo, government-owned.
Hypocrisy on their parts. It's like the media makes a big deal about $150,000 wardrobe.
Instead of fixing problems by doing sound investigation into how to fix, we have politicians making political statements for their next campaign. These speeches are adding to the negative attitudes about the economy and about the US car makers slowing sales in the showrooms. This is slowing sales of any car brands because people are scared to death now that they are going to be jobless, homeless, and living out of a shopping bag at the local shelter.
The people doing the questioning should be business folk with degrees. Or Ross Perot could ask some good questions and offer solutions. Because of the politics being involved, I see even more of a downturn and a lengthening of the recession. I see showrooms and used car lots empty of customers because they are all staying home.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But, he said the typical hourly guy makes about $50K/year. If they work a lot of overtime (which has been extremely scarce this year) he said some will approach $100K/year.
Ford is trying to shuttle both the hourly and salary guys out the door with "buyouts". Most have no training or skills to snag anything close to what they are currently making, however.
Those folks are either going to be forced out (with a permanent layoff, with nothing to show for it). Or, they are taking their chances that Ford decides to keep them. Ford just shut down one entire plant in the area. Who knows whether the other one will remain open.
Quite the conundrum.
Let's not forget that they probably have no more than a high school diploma, maybe less. Starting salaries for teachers with a masters degree is less, at least here in Florida. Union wages must go for the Big 3 to survive, and that's after they consolidate down to the Big 2.
Also, I love how the press reports this, "Bailing out the auto industry", which is not true at all. The headlines should read, "Bailing out failed American companies in the auto industry".
Pacer Video
I don’t think so. Honda, Toyota and Nissan pay their workers less yet their cars don’t reflect the reduced operating costs. In fact, you’ll pay more for a similarly equipped Accord than you will for a Malibu.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m in no way endorsing the pay scale of the UAW but a car costs what it is perceived to be worth by the public. Detroit lost that perception long ago but they’re coming back.
Will a bail out work? Who knows for sure but the alternative is going to be worse, a lot worse, in the short run.
I’m for cutting the dead wood (brains really) at the top and working on down. There is a way, it just can’t be like our fathers Oldsmobile.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Very savvy point there. They should be priced lower.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
People will pay more for a product they belive in with a good reputation.
Not really. Workers wages only account for 20% of the cost of an automobile.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Greed, for lackof a better word, does not work. Greed is not good... :sick:
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Labor costs (all overhead costs) are figured into those metrics.
But, once that car hits the dealer's lot, things get a bit skewed from those metrics. Does the manufacture employ a rebate structure? Is the dealership trying to "blow out" his stock of lime green cars? Or, as we have right now, dealerships are trying to move iron and may sell for less based strictly on the current downward trend in the biz?
If any, or all of those are true, you can throw marketing metrics out the window.
Marysville, OH....home of American Honda, isn't that far away from me. Talk to some of the workers there right now, and you'll find that in the current climate, they're probably making more than their UAW counterparts and the local Ford plant. That's because they're working more hours than those who are employed at Ford.
So, even a fixed cost like labor can be hard to pin down.
When I was shopping for my Accord, I also cross shopped the Malibu. At the time, they were "neck and neck" in terms of real world dollars to buy. Today, you can buy a Malibu cheaper than you can an Accord based solely on the fact that, although Honda is feeling the crunch, it's not nearly as bad as it is for Chevy.
So, even though it's perceived that the Ford or Chevy labor rate is more. In reality, in true dollars paid, those dollars are probably closer than we think.
Put off any car purchases, it might come to a dealer near you.
That's going to be my new marketing campaign for the rest of the month. I typically test the waters with different marketing strategies that I can run for free online and locally.
If they work we adopt them to our paid print and radio ads.
All dealers are in rocky waters right now. The ones who will survive thedownturn are ones that prepared for it before (as Joel said), ones with good customer base for referrals (as GG said), and ones that have creative marketing that make them stand out from the rest and get people in the doors.
And don't get me wrong..... all my marketing is legit, I don't run any bait and swtich programs, or have mystery base cars that are never in stock.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
It will be our secret. It's such a great book and helped lead to some needed reforms although from what I read the meat packing industry still has a long way to go. On the plus side at least they aren't asking for a bailout.
Back in the early 70s the US went through a period where meat prices skyrocketed. There was a clever editorial cartoon that showed police examining a hole used by thieves to burrow under a bank to break into the adjacent butcher shop.
A couple of weeks ago I saw an editorial cartoon that showed a floating Titanic (Chrysler) tethered by a couple of small cables to the Hindenburg Zeppelin (GM). The caption read: A GM-Chrysler Merger.
Gogiboy
The domestic makers just shot themselves in the foot by building cars people didn't want and they let quality slip. Quality is much improved now...I know that but the damage was done and some people just won't take a chance.
I really don't want the domestics to fail and the thought of this happening is downright scary when everything is considered.
What I am really getting tired of are customers who are taking pleasure in this downturn. They tell us why we should lose thousands of dollars by taking a loser deal because..." don't you know how bad things are".
Scary times indeed.
You can buy a Malibu cheaper, even though it probably has more content than a Honda (extras thrown in). The Malibu probably costs more to build at $72 hour including pension, benefits etc. if the Honda costs $48 an hour for labor.......BUT Honda is making a profit and is not going out of business.
One more thing, it's nice to see the U.S. cars catching up to the Japanese for fit, quality and reliability, but what would we be driving if it wasn't for the import competition....the U.S. companies are barely keeping pace, and some like Chryco are way behind, so without that benchmark we'd probably be driving Pacers.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Ask the congressmen how they get to and fro their districts? Do they drive their Prius back to their districts?
True, but they are not coming to Congress begging for a hand out - they can basically take what they need. It is a ludicrous scene, that would make an excellent political cartoon....3 guys on their hands and knees begging for money to keep their companies afloat.....while they each arrive in their own corporate jet. If it wasn't so sad and scary it would be funny. And, how much of the 25 billion will go toward keeping these perks moving.
In Canada the auto workers union has already stated strongly their workers will not accept a cut back in wages. Like why should they suffer?
I am not an economist, or an accountant, (An economist is an accountant with some personality) but what if the government spent some money to use as very low interest loan money to buy cars? Would an indirect stimulus do more than throwing more money down the drain?
Kinda like sub-prime car loans, only done with a good down payment.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No, s/he is just another person with an opinion.
Economists are great for telling us what just happened.