You guys got me curious so I crunched the numbers. I wondered how much of the $1 TRILLION you would have to spend each day so that you would finish it off after 2,000 years and given that interest was compounded daily. Here are the results:
For reference, you would have to spend about $1,368,925 each day with 0% interest.
At a mere 1% apr, that figure explodes to about $27,378,507. And you would have spent a total of about $20 TRILLION give or take a half million. At 4% apr, those numbers approximately quadruple.
Now if you had left that $1 TRILLION in a 1% apr interest bearing account (compounded daily) it would be worth almost $500 BILLION TRILLION today, enough to both stimulate the economy and generate stories from the sales frontlines like there's no tomorrow! On the other hand, a loaf of bread might go for a million bucks or so with the ensuing inflation.
Wow, that begs the question of what in the world happens to all the tax money paid in the U.S. It is hard to come up with a total figure, counting all taxes collected from all sources but it is supposed to be about 30% of the GDP. The GDP is about $15 trillion so that would make the total taxes in the neighborhood of $5 trillion.
Given your figures etc. how can all this, and more, be spent each year? Very frightening !! :mad:
Richard....you'll be fine. You'll come home in a new GM, and be happy with the price. Just remember, the best negotiating tools you possess are your feet. But, I suspect things are going to go smoothly.
snake....'grats on the new member of the family. I'm waiting on the day when my son comes up to me and says......"Dad, guess what?". Hopefully, not any time in the near future, though.
1. It does not help the economy for us to lose money to sell you a car. 2. When leasing you want the residual to be HIGH because you end up paying less for the car. 3. Sales people have families too and have the right to earn a living just like anyone else. 4. Throwing your trade in at the last minute does not help anyone. It just makes the process take longer. 5. We sit around and make fun of you people who try to buy cars based on some stupid book or method you read about on line. Fact is we know what you are doing before you do. 6. You come to us for help purchasing a car. We do not go looking for you. 7. Paying freight or processing fees is normal. You are not so special that you don't have to pay what everyone else does. 8. If you shop too hard you can shop yourself right out of the market. Going to 20 different dealerships might save you 3 dollars a month, but was it really worth your time to do that? 9. If you won't pay KBB or Edmunds Fair market value for my car, why should I pay it for yours? 10. Everyone in the car business in the same area knows everyone else. We do talk to the other dealers when we have a completely unreasonable customer. 11. It does not help you to lie to us about the numbers you received from another dealer. We all buy the cars for the same price, so we can all sell them for the same price. 12. We spend a substantial portion of our lives at work. We do not enjoy when you come here 30 minutes before we close and try to hard line us in to taking a ridiculous price. We have families and lives we would like to get back to. 13. Do not ask for holdback. You won’t get it.
14. While all customers are due common courtesy, so is your sales person. They are people too. Being rude to your sales person is not a negotiating tactic. 15. Please shower, and do not eat smelly food before forcing someone to go on a test drive with you. 16. If you have a credit score in the mid 600’s and you are offered an interest rate of 6%, please do not tell us the interest rate is too high. Take the gift you were given and run with it. 17. Contrary to popular belief, most of the products offered by the finance people do have some validity. Even if you have no intention of purchasing any additional items, please be kind enough to allow them to finish their presentation. They are required to tell you about all of your options to prevent the dealership from being sued because they didn’t offer something. 18. In the event that your new/used car breaks down, please do not come in to the dealership yelling at the person that sold you the car. He/She is not a mechanic and is unable to diagnose/fix the problem. 19. The average amount of time required to complete a car deal is somewhere in excess of two hours. It is completely unreasonable to expect to be finished in 30 minutes or less. After all you are not ordering a pizza. 20. Set reasonable expectations. If you are trying to buy a $30,000 car and you owe more money than your trade is worth, there is no way you will get to a $350 payment. On the average you are looking at about $20 per thousand financed on a 60 month loan. 21. You will not get extra discounts for paying cash. The great depression was in 1930’s. That is the last time paying cash would work that way. 22. If you buy a cheap car, you get what you pay for. Don’t be surprised if you spend a lot of time in the service department. 23. Big gas guzzling SUV’s have terrible resale value. Either keep the car or sell it yourself and save us the argument. 25. Cars are ordered from the manufacturer based on what sells. You need to decide before coming to the dealership what is more important, color or options. Sometimes it is just impossible to find the perfect car. Be flexible.
If the link doesn't work (and it doesn't look like it will from my end),
The link worked fine and the article was very interesting and right on topic.
It taught me that if I had any dreams of ever selling cars I have now permanently lost any desire to do so. I forget about sitting there while morons are test driving new cars.
"...how can all this, and more, be spent each year? Very frightening!!..."
More frightening is how little we have to show for it. I propose that 1% of all taxes collected each year go to buy Edmunds posters the car of their choice. The gov't will never miss it and it will make us all VERY happy.
Who knows it might even get Richard off the dime on the GM purchase. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Thanks. I appreciate your point of view. I have some random responses on my own.
1. I care only to and extent. If somebody volunteers to lose money on a deal, why should I stop them. You woudn't stop some poor sap to pay sticker for this lot queen sitting for a year on your lot, would you? If there are too many dealers, I'm going to use that to my advantage, just as you'd use to yours if there were too few cars.
2, 4, 14, 15, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23 - agree
3. So do customers, so let's not bring that to the table. It's a business transaction. That 100 bucks is a week of groceries, so it's not "nothing". 5. Yeah - and we sit around and laugh at those ADM stickers put by some dealers on those "hot" Malibus or Sorentos. Let's focus on the goal rather than enter some spitting contest, shall we? 6. Yes, I do. I hope YOU realize that if I didn't, you wouldn't have your job. So we do need each other and I dare to say you might need me more and I need you... 7. True, I don't have to like it though, especially your "take from rear end" fees (my local dealers are all over $500 now). I can voice my general dissatisfaction with that practice as being disingenuous ($500 cannot be called "reimbursement" anymore). But don't worry - I'l simply reduce my price target by the amount I deem reasonable for your reimbursement to offset your fee. Suit yourself, I don't care. 8. Agreed. But I don't show "per month". BTW, $3/month on 60 month is already $180. Not enough to make a trip to another state, but might be enough to get it from a guy next door. 12. I agree - so just say no and go home. 13. I just wittnessed dealer surrendering (or at least a portion) it to my coworker. So you may not, but others may. See Item 1 for follow up. 17. I promise I will as long at it doesn't last three hours and doesn't involve F&I guy questioning my intelligence just because I declined. 22. There are plenty of cheap car of high quality. You sound like a BMW/MB salesman, but I may be wrong (like those cars don't spend a lot of time in a service garage, do they ) 25. Sure, just don't blame me for trying to get my perfect car.
Thanks. I appreciate your point of view. I have some random responses on my own.
I agree with you dino. The guy has some legitimate points but he also has a real attitude, don't think I'd buy a car from him.
Hey where's Richard? Left at 8 a.m., 2 hour drive makes it 10. 3 hours to sign papers makes it 1, 2 hours home makes it 3. Hope he didn't get beaten like a baby seal.
22. If you buy a cheap car, you get what you pay for. Don’t be surprised if you spend a lot of time in the service department. 23. Big gas guzzling SUV’s have terrible resale value. Either keep the car or sell it yourself and save us the argument. 25. Cars are ordered...
Typical car sales guy, always leaving something out, not counting right, etc. :surprise:
...just a series of thoughts.
And I agree with most of them. I also agree that there is an attitude here.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"...Fact is we know what you are doing before you do..."
Just how do you do that? Mind reading? Voodoo? Do you break into our houses and go through our personal stuff. Was that you going out the bedroom window when I came home early the other night?
My wife said it was the Kirby salesman but now I'm beginning to wonder. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
For # 3, it may sound harsh but I don't care. If you can't provide for your family in this job maybe you should be looking for another job. I have a family too and I have a right to keep as much of my money as possible.
For # 5 We walk out laughing at those who put $4K ADM on a $16K compact that nobody thinks will sell all to well.
For #15 same goes for the salesman.
For # 22 my current car is the least expensive new car I have ever bought (adjusting for inflation) yet it has been the most reliable car I have ever owned. Contrary to that I have a friend who owns a German luxury car that costs 4 times what mine cost and its been in the shop more times than I can count. Paying more does not mean getting better,
For # 24 all I can say is
For #25 If the manufacturer can configure the trim, color and options then I should be able to get that, even if I have to special order it.
The rest seems ok.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
25. Cars are ordered from the manufacturer based on what sells. You need to decide before coming to the dealership what is more important, color or options. Sometimes it is just impossible to find the perfect car. Be flexible.
One of the primary reasons I didnt buy a GTI was because none of the local VW dealers showed any willingness to order a car the way I wanted. Contrast that with the dealer where I purchased my Mazdaspeed3; they found and flatbedded in a car that was exactly what I wanted.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I think this salesman thinks you are supposed to hand him your wallet and your checkbook and your life, and be happy that he is showing you a car.
The only thing I might differ on is; Contrary to that I have a friend who owns a German luxury car that costs 4 times what mine cost and its been in the shop more times than I can count.
I'll take my chances even at 4X the amount. Few will be in the shop that much and for pure driving pleasure there is nothing like a Euro car......and if it is in the garage more often and costs more so be it........cut down on your beer consumption or something.
If low price and reliability are your main objectives in your life than don't bother with a Euro car.
25. Cars are ordered from the manufacturer based on what sells. You need to decide before coming to the dealership what is more important, color or options.
Good point. Your only spending $20,000 or $30,000 (in Richards case $15,000) of your hard earned cash, so shouldn't you at least get the color you want. Is this guy the car [non-permissible content removed], "here's your car, don't argue, just take it the way it is"?.
I was kind of wondering the same thing. Heck, when I am buying a used car there's still things I'll accept and things I won't. I'm sure not going to compromise what I want because this guy needs to get rid of something.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
...there is nothing like a Euro car......and if it is in the garage more often and costs more so be it........
If I had a car, regardless of who made it, that was in the garage and cost me what ever it did, I damn sure wouldn't have that "ah what the heck" attitude. I'd be looking for something else. Prestige would mean nothing to me if I couldn't count on the car to do what I expected of it.
If low price and reliability are your main objectives in your life than don't bother with a Euro car.
To me, low price is nice but reliability is a must regardless of the name on it. If you are implying that Euro's are that unreliable I don't know why anyone would want one. I've heard quite a few people say they will get rid of their Euro's when the warranty runs out but I can't remember ever hearing someone say that about their Honda or Toyota.
I can't drive prestige, I have to have a car that gets me from point A to B without me holding my breath when it's beyond infancy.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm sorry to be so late posting my experience. I took my wife shopping afterward and out to dinner. We then stopped on the way home to see my sister and brother-in-law.
Allow me to preface my experience by saying that some of you will agree with my decision, and some of you will not. Opinions are like elbows, we all have at least two. Still, I did what I thought was best for me in terms of what I wanted, and in terms of how my money should be spent. With all of the advice in the world, it is you who must make the final decision. With that said I progress.
We arrived at the dealership around 10:30. As we were getting out of the car, we were warmly greeted by the internet sales manager, the used car sales manager, and the owner of the dealership. After introductions, the owner went on his way; the used car sales manager drove away in my trade; and the internet sales manager brought the Grand Marquis around to the front.
As the Grand Marquis pulled up, my heart sank. The smokestone exterior looked awful---unlike any pictures that I had seen. It was a mixture of silver and tan, but mostly silver. In the sunlight, parts of the car looked tan. In the shade, parts of the car looked silver. From all of the pictures that I had seen, I thought that it would be a tan metallic color. I had seen actual GM's in tan metallic, but they must have been older than an '08 model. The interior of the car was exactly what I had hoped it would be---a beautiful cream colored leather. The internet guy pointed out all of the features and we left for a test drive. The car drove beautifully. It took railroad tracks and bumps very softly. It cornered well and stopped on a dime. The steering didn't feel loose at all. I had a feeling of complete control, even though it floated like a cloud. The leather was unusually nice quality and the wood trim and dash were not cheap looking at all. The automatic pedal controls were a nice feature, as well as the lumbar seats. It is a perfect road car.
Upon returning to the dealership, we met the used car manager outside. He commented on how nice my Explorer had been maintained. He and the internet salesman excused themselves for a few minutes. It gave me a chance to ask my wife what she thought about the GM. She was a sweetheart. She said that she wanted me to have what I wanted, and that she would abide by my decision.
When the internet guy returned, he said that he would honor our previous agreement on the figures with one exception. They were going to give me an extra $500 on the trade. I was very pleased to hear that, and it was unexpected. I believe that this covers the $250 that we joked about earlier. I told him that I appreciated all of his emails and the time that he had spent with us; but that the exterior color was just one that I didn't like at all. He asked me to come to his office for a moment. He pulled out the color chart for 2008. There were no tans or golds for that year. They only made the smokestone, the dark red, light blue, sea foam green, white, silver, and black. He called in the used car manager. We discussed the possibility of a black with a camel interior. Though doubtful, he said that he would try to find one for me.
These guys were so very nice. If they were even once irritated, it didn't show. This dealership has been in business since 1953. They rely on repeat customers, and have been doing fairly well during these hard times. While we there, other salesmen spoke to us cordially, and even the secretary came out of her office to introduce herself. Though it was a disappointment, they certainly made the experience as pleasant as possible.
On the way home, my wife made the comment that she really didn't like the exterior color but that she loved driving the car.. I told her that I agreed. She told me not to worry because I would eventually find what I wanted. I guess that is one of the nice things about being married 42 years.
They stood together on the display floor, two guys who might have the toughest job in America.
The stock market has tanked, the economy is comatose, jobs are disappearing, banks are reluctant to lend, and people are afraid to spend. There might never have been a tougher time to do what Tom Creenan and Lou Berti do: sell cars. (MORE AT LINK;) http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/571081.html
She told me not to worry because I would eventually find what I wanted.
I'm sorry to hear that you didn't get what you wanted but as you decided (and correctly so) there is no sense buying something you won't be happy with regardless of the price.
You've been around long enough to know that there are plenty of cars on the floors and lots.
Look at it like this, if you bought it that would have ended all the car talk here because the biz guys aren't doing anything, at least they're not saying anything.
Happy hunting,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
. Though it was a disappointment, they certainly made the experience as pleasant as possible.
Richard, it sounds like the dealership was outstanding........it was a surprise to me. I thought it was going to be a bait and switch deal for sure.
You did the right thing. I think of it as a learning experience. You might formulate a little better in your mind what you do want. You do know you like the car....it's just the color. The price was a good one, and it is amazing that you could get so much for an older SUV (not to put it down but it won't be an easy sell for them).
You could buy it and have it painted, might cost a bit but then you could get the colour of your choice. You could buy it and sometimes you get used to the color and if you don't get it painted in a year or two.
You might ponder the whole thing for awhile and decide to go with it......there are a lot of GMs down here, new and old, and they do look good and solid and comfortable. Sleep on it a bit and don't forget you can always get it repainted, which is nice too, it would feel like a new car again if you do it in a few years.
You could buy it and have it painted, might cost a bit but then you could get the colour of your choice.
Sleep on it a bit and don't forget you can always get it repainted, which is nice too, it would feel like a new car again if you do it in a few years.
You said that twice (repaint the car) so I think you'd actually consider this. I'd never let a thought like that enter my cranium. Is that something you Euro car buyers do to change your luck with cars that go to the shop so often or has the Florida sun cooked your brains out? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I can't drive prestige, I have to have a car that gets me from point A to B without me holding my breath when it's beyond infancy.
First, getting there is half the fun. If the car is just more fun to drive then getting from A to B is going to be part of the enjoyment experience.
The difference in reliability isn't that great these days. BMW is right up there just behind Toyota. If a BMW requires an extra bit of sevice here or there, but you have more enjoyment driving it and it is safer many would prefer that.
If a car is simpler it will probably be more reliable. Less to go wrong. Toyotas have relatively straight forward designs there is less to go wrong. The more features you have the more possibility of a problem.
Euro cars generally have brakes that fade faster, because they want to make them work better. It takes twice as long to stop my rental Ford Fusion as my BMW, but I am sure the brakes in the Fusion will last longer.
Newer Euro cars are not that unreliable....those are stories made up by Toyota salespeople to keep the myth going. Mercedes has a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty, and BMW a 4 year bumper to bumper. I have not paid for a repair and I believe to the best of my ability these cars only went back to the dealer once for warranty work. If you are worried you can get extended warranties at a reasonable price...mainly because the manufacurers know these cars will stay on the road. Over 90% of all the Mercedes sold in the US are still on the road today, so they can't be that unreliable.
If you want to be practical you can drive a a box with a steering wheel and 4 wheels......and for many people that is right for them. Nothing wrong with that, in my mid age adult years I would have done that, bought the most practical car possible. Especially, when money is tight, family considerations, mortgage payments etc.
Now I realize life is short, we are here for a good time not a long time, I prefer reliability, but I don't want boring reliability. And though Toyotas might be reliable, there's more chance I'll see a 10 or 20 year old Mercedes or BMW on the road than a 10 or 20 year old Toyota
Is that something you Euro car buyers do to change your luck with cars that go to the shop so often
Nah, repainting won't fix a broken down car. I am guessing a good paint job would cost $1500. That's $150 a year if Richard keeps his dream car for 10 years. I know that buys a beer almost a day, for a year, 3 meals out in a year, a coffee every week day for a year, a chocolate bar every other day for a year.
If it is the perfect car and it's just a matter of color then it could be considered. The dealer would probably do it for cost. If I really wanted a car but I wanted a certain color I would really CONSIDER getting it painted. In fact when I got my 2000 Jeep Cherokee I wanted red. The only one left in the model I wanted was silver. I bought it and I thought if I liked the car I'd get it painted in 2 years. I got to like the silver and traded it after 3 years.......so yes, I would think about getting it painted (for the 5th time now).
First, getting there is half the fun. If the car is just more fun to drive then getting from A to B is going to be part of the enjoyment experience.
If you mean the fun comes from quick starts and seeing how well a car takes corners and can it be nimble going in and out of traffic, I'll let you have all of that.
Now I realize life is short, we are here for a good time not a long time, I prefer reliability, but I don't want boring reliability.
You said it again. At your age why would you want to make it even shorter? Do you really drive differently now than in your younger years?
Now is the time to make sure you take care of yourself.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Each has been in the business for about 40 years. Neither can remember a time when fewer folks walked through the showroom door.
It's really tough out there. I think we have had worse recessions, but this one is worse for D3 dealers because people aren't buying their cars as much...and there's more choice. Also, this credit problem seems to be new. Hope the stimulation package works.
Some European countries are giving tax relief for trading in clunkers for new cars...which reduces the price by about 20%. That might help, but of course we do need credit first.
If you mean the fun comes from quick starts and seeing how well a car takes corners and can it be nimble going in and out of traffic, I'll let you have all of that.
No, I drive more carefully than ever. The driving experience is good enough enjoyment, have no desire to drive fast and reckless.
It's more like if you had a classic car. You just drive along and enjoy the experience...being in harmony with the car, the purr of the engine, the control of shifting your own gears, the feel of the road. In fact, you do less of the reckless stuff, because the enjoyment comes from just driving. I believed exactly like you, but then when I test drove my first Euro car (about 10 years ago), there was a complete difference in feel, and it can't be explained, it has to be experienced.
I don't drink much wine, but I guess if your an expert, the only way to see a difference, is to try it.
I'll take my chances even at 4X the amount. Few will be in the shop that much and for pure driving pleasure there is nothing like a Euro car......and if it is in the garage more often and costs more so be it........cut down on your beer consumption or something.
Most German luxury cars will be in the shop far more than most non luxury cars of any make. As for me driving pleasure is not driving to the shop every third month or being stranded someplace.
If low price and reliability are your main objectives in your life than don't bother with a Euro car.
Reliability is an issue for me. If I can buy a $12,500 in 2000 and have a car that goes 160K miles (so far) with no issues then I expect at least that much from a $50,000 car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Comments
At the hospital visiting my brand new grand daughter.
Anyway the numbers all look good.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
You know as well as I do...he's a goner.
A
lambseal on the way to theslaughter housedealership.How much you wanna bet he coughs up another $250? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The fun is just starting. You'll see, the more the merrier.
Congratulations.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You guys got me curious so I crunched the numbers. I wondered how much of the $1 TRILLION you would have to spend each day so that you would finish it off after 2,000 years and given that interest was compounded daily. Here are the results:
For reference, you would have to spend about $1,368,925 each day with 0% interest.
At a mere 1% apr, that figure explodes to about $27,378,507. And you would have spent a total of about $20 TRILLION give or take a half million. At 4% apr, those numbers approximately quadruple.
Now if you had left that $1 TRILLION in a 1% apr interest bearing account (compounded daily) it would be worth almost $500 BILLION TRILLION today, enough to both stimulate the economy and generate stories from the sales frontlines like there's no tomorrow! On the other hand, a loaf of bread might go for a million bucks or so with the ensuing inflation.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Best wishes + Congrats SW! Not only is she cute, she's got lots of hair!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have faith in Richard. I'll bet you one brand new vinyl moonroof he won't cave in
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Given your figures etc. how can all this, and more, be spent each year? Very frightening !! :mad:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
snake....'grats on the new member of the family. I'm waiting on the day when my son comes up to me and says......"Dad, guess what?". Hopefully, not any time in the near future, though.
And you don't? :confuse:
Thankfully, I don't have that problem.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You must see something there that I don't. :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
He must be tied up with the new granddaughter - he's not trying to correct any of the trillion dollar numbers!
Come on, Richard! What the heck happened? You can be worse than stickguy on pulling the trigger!
By:
Anonymous Sales Manager
1. It does not help the economy for us to lose money to sell you a car.
2. When leasing you want the residual to be HIGH because you end up paying less for the car.
3. Sales people have families too and have the right to earn a living just like anyone else.
4. Throwing your trade in at the last minute does not help anyone. It just makes the process take longer.
5. We sit around and make fun of you people who try to buy cars based on some stupid book or method you read about on line. Fact is we know what you are doing before you do.
6. You come to us for help purchasing a car. We do not go looking for you.
7. Paying freight or processing fees is normal. You are not so special that you don't have to pay what everyone else does.
8. If you shop too hard you can shop yourself right out of the market. Going to 20 different dealerships might save you 3 dollars a month, but was it really worth your time to do that?
9. If you won't pay KBB or Edmunds Fair market value for my car, why should I pay it for yours?
10. Everyone in the car business in the same area knows everyone else. We do talk to the other dealers when we have a completely unreasonable customer.
11. It does not help you to lie to us about the numbers you received from another dealer. We all buy the cars for the same price, so we can all sell them for the same price.
12. We spend a substantial portion of our lives at work. We do not enjoy when you come here 30 minutes before we close and try to hard line us in to taking a ridiculous price. We have families and lives we would like to get back to.
13. Do not ask for holdback. You won’t get it.
14. While all customers are due common courtesy, so is your sales person. They are people too. Being rude to your sales person is not a negotiating tactic.
15. Please shower, and do not eat smelly food before forcing someone to go on a test drive with you.
16. If you have a credit score in the mid 600’s and you are offered an interest rate of 6%, please do not tell us the interest rate is too high. Take the gift you were given and run with it.
17. Contrary to popular belief, most of the products offered by the finance people do have some validity. Even if you have no intention of purchasing any additional items, please be kind enough to allow them to finish their presentation. They are required to tell you about all of your options to prevent the dealership from being sued because they didn’t offer something.
18. In the event that your new/used car breaks down, please do not come in to the dealership yelling at the person that sold you the car. He/She is not a mechanic and is unable to diagnose/fix the problem.
19. The average amount of time required to complete a car deal is somewhere in excess of two hours. It is completely unreasonable to expect to be finished in 30 minutes or less. After all you are not ordering a pizza.
20. Set reasonable expectations. If you are trying to buy a $30,000 car and you owe more money than your trade is worth, there is no way you will get to a $350 payment. On the average you are looking at about $20 per thousand financed on a 60 month loan.
21. You will not get extra discounts for paying cash. The great depression was in 1930’s. That is the last time paying cash would work that way.
22. If you buy a cheap car, you get what you pay for. Don’t be surprised if you spend a lot of time in the service department.
23. Big gas guzzling SUV’s have terrible resale value. Either keep the car or sell it yourself and save us the argument.
25. Cars are ordered from the manufacturer based on what sells. You need to decide before coming to the dealership what is more important, color or options. Sometimes it is just impossible to find the perfect car. Be flexible.
Not a sermon, just a series of thoughts.
link title
It is written primarily from the Salesman's perspective. :surprise:
If the link doesn't work (and it doesn't look like it will from my end), you can copy and past this in you browser:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_- cars/how_to_get_that_new_car_test_drive_feature/(page)/1
The link worked fine and the article was very interesting and right on topic.
It taught me that if I had any dreams of ever selling cars I have now permanently lost any desire to do so. I forget about sitting there while morons are test driving new cars.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And you don't?
Thankfully, I don't have that problem.
That's good...... I wished for brains, personality, and to be a great kisser instead.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
More frightening is how little we have to show for it. I propose that 1% of all taxes collected each year go to buy Edmunds posters the car of their choice. The gov't will never miss it and it will make us all VERY happy.
Who knows it might even get Richard off the dime on the GM purchase. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1. I care only to and extent. If somebody volunteers to lose money on a deal, why should I stop them. You woudn't stop some poor sap to pay sticker for this lot queen sitting for a year on your lot, would you? If there are too many dealers, I'm going to use that to my advantage, just as you'd use to yours if there were too few cars.
2, 4, 14, 15, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23 - agree
3. So do customers, so let's not bring that to the table. It's a business transaction. That 100 bucks is a week of groceries, so it's not "nothing".
5. Yeah - and we sit around and laugh at those ADM stickers put by some dealers on those "hot" Malibus or Sorentos. Let's focus on the goal rather than enter some spitting contest, shall we?
6. Yes, I do. I hope YOU realize that if I didn't, you wouldn't have your job. So we do need each other and I dare to say you might need me more and I need you...
7. True, I don't have to like it though, especially your "take from rear end" fees (my local dealers are all over $500 now). I can voice my general dissatisfaction with that practice as being disingenuous ($500 cannot be called "reimbursement" anymore). But don't worry - I'l simply reduce my price target by the amount I deem reasonable for your reimbursement to offset your fee. Suit yourself, I don't care.
8. Agreed. But I don't show "per month". BTW, $3/month on 60 month is already $180. Not enough to make a trip to another state, but might be enough to get it from a guy next door.
12. I agree - so just say no and go home.
13. I just wittnessed dealer surrendering (or at least a portion) it to my coworker. So you may not, but others may. See Item 1 for follow up.
17. I promise I will as long at it doesn't last three hours and doesn't involve F&I guy questioning my intelligence just because I declined.
22. There are plenty of cheap car of high quality. You sound like a BMW/MB salesman, but I may be wrong (like those cars don't spend a lot of time in a service garage, do they
25. Sure, just don't blame me for trying to get my perfect car.
I have a feeling we could do business
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Yeah, but snake's grandkid doesn't have to rely on hair from a spray can. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Is that still available...it would go well with vinyl sun roof.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree with you dino. The guy has some legitimate points but he also has a real attitude, don't think I'd buy a car from him.
Hey where's Richard? Left at 8 a.m., 2 hour drive makes it 10. 3 hours to sign papers makes it 1, 2 hours home makes it 3. Hope he didn't get beaten like a baby seal.
Maybe he's out celebrating..... :shades:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You'll see, the more the merrier.
The mom said "never again"
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well its not from my side of the family. :sick:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
23. Big gas guzzling SUV’s have terrible resale value. Either keep the car or sell it yourself and save us the argument.
25. Cars are ordered...
Typical car sales guy, always leaving something out, not counting right, etc. :surprise:
...just a series of thoughts.
And I agree with most of them. I also agree that there is an attitude here.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
God is great,
God is fair,
Some he gave brains,
The rest he gave hair.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Just how do you do that? Mind reading? Voodoo? Do you break into our houses and go through our personal stuff. Was that you going out the bedroom window when I came home early the other night?
My wife said it was the Kirby salesman but now I'm beginning to wonder. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yeah, yeah, I've heard that before.
Moms have a way of changing their minds. They all have those genes, right?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
For # 3, it may sound harsh but I don't care. If you can't provide for your family in this job maybe you should be looking for another job. I have a family too and I have a right to keep as much of my money as possible.
For # 5 We walk out laughing at those who put $4K ADM on a $16K compact that nobody thinks will sell all to well.
For #15 same goes for the salesman.
For # 22 my current car is the least expensive new car I have ever bought (adjusting for inflation) yet it has been the most reliable car I have ever owned. Contrary to that I have a friend who owns a German luxury car that costs 4 times what mine cost and its been in the shop more times than I can count. Paying more does not mean getting better,
For # 24 all I can say is
For #25 If the manufacturer can configure the trim, color and options then I should be able to get that, even if I have to special order it.
The rest seems ok.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
One of the primary reasons I didnt buy a GTI was because none of the local VW dealers showed any willingness to order a car the way I wanted. Contrast that with the dealer where I purchased my Mazdaspeed3; they found and flatbedded in a car that was exactly what I wanted.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Excellent!
I think this salesman thinks you are supposed to hand him your wallet and your checkbook and your life, and be happy that he is showing you a car.
The only thing I might differ on is;
Contrary to that I have a friend who owns a German luxury car that costs 4 times what mine cost and its been in the shop more times than I can count.
I'll take my chances even at 4X the amount. Few will be in the shop that much and for pure driving pleasure there is nothing like a Euro car......and if it is in the garage more often and costs more so be it........cut down on your beer consumption or something.
If low price and reliability are your main objectives in your life than don't bother with a Euro car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Good point. Your only spending $20,000 or $30,000 (in Richards case $15,000) of your hard earned cash, so shouldn't you at least get the color you want. Is this guy the car [non-permissible content removed], "here's your car, don't argue, just take it the way it is"?.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If I had a car, regardless of who made it, that was in the garage and cost me what ever it did, I damn sure wouldn't have that "ah what the heck" attitude. I'd be looking for something else. Prestige would mean nothing to me if I couldn't count on the car to do what I expected of it.
If low price and reliability are your main objectives in your life than don't bother with a Euro car.
To me, low price is nice but reliability is a must regardless of the name on it. If you are implying that Euro's are that unreliable I don't know why anyone would want one. I've heard quite a few people say they will get rid of their Euro's when the warranty runs out but I can't remember ever hearing someone say that about their Honda or Toyota.
I can't drive prestige, I have to have a car that gets me from point A to B without me holding my breath when it's beyond infancy.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Allow me to preface my experience by saying that some of you will agree with my decision, and some of you will not. Opinions are like elbows, we all have at least two. Still, I did what I thought was best for me in terms of what I wanted, and in terms of how my money should be spent. With all of the advice in the world, it is you who must make the final decision. With that said I progress.
We arrived at the dealership around 10:30. As we were getting out of the car, we were warmly greeted by the internet sales manager, the used car sales manager, and the owner of the dealership. After introductions, the owner went on his way; the used car sales manager drove away in my trade; and the internet sales manager brought the Grand Marquis around to the front.
As the Grand Marquis pulled up, my heart sank. The smokestone exterior looked awful---unlike any pictures that I had seen. It was a mixture of silver and tan, but mostly silver. In the sunlight, parts of the car looked tan. In the shade, parts of the car looked silver. From all of the pictures that I had seen, I thought that it would be a tan metallic color. I had seen actual GM's in tan metallic, but they must have been older than an '08 model. The interior of the car was exactly what I had hoped it would be---a beautiful cream colored leather. The internet guy pointed out all of the features and we left for a test drive. The car drove beautifully. It took railroad tracks and bumps very softly. It cornered well and stopped on a dime. The steering didn't feel loose at all. I had a feeling of complete control, even though it floated like a cloud. The leather was unusually nice quality and the wood trim and dash were not cheap looking at all. The automatic pedal controls were a nice feature, as well as the lumbar seats. It is a perfect road car.
Upon returning to the dealership, we met the used car manager outside. He commented on how nice my Explorer had been maintained. He and the internet salesman excused themselves for a few minutes. It gave me a chance to ask my wife what she thought about the GM. She was a sweetheart. She said that she wanted me to have what I wanted, and that she would abide by my decision.
When the internet guy returned, he said that he would honor our previous agreement on the figures with one exception. They were going to give me an extra $500 on the trade. I was very pleased to hear that, and it was unexpected. I believe that this covers the $250 that we joked about earlier. I told him that I appreciated all of his emails and the time that he had spent with us; but that the exterior color was just one that I didn't like at all. He asked me to come to his office for a moment. He pulled out the color chart for 2008. There were no tans or golds for that year. They only made the smokestone, the dark red, light blue, sea foam green, white, silver, and black. He called in the used car manager. We discussed the possibility of a black with a camel interior. Though doubtful, he said that he would try to find one for me.
These guys were so very nice. If they were even once irritated, it didn't show. This dealership has been in business since 1953. They rely on repeat customers, and have been doing fairly well during these hard times. While we there, other salesmen spoke to us cordially, and even the secretary came out of her office to introduce herself. Though it was a disappointment, they certainly made the experience as pleasant as possible.
On the way home, my wife made the comment that she really didn't like the exterior color but that she loved driving the car.. I told her that I agreed. She told me not to worry because I would eventually find what I wanted. I guess that is one of the nice things about being married 42 years.
As we used to write in elementary school: THE END
The stock market has tanked, the economy is comatose, jobs are disappearing, banks are reluctant to lend, and people are afraid to spend. There might never have been a tougher time to do what Tom Creenan and Lou Berti do: sell cars.
(MORE AT LINK;)
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/571081.html
dealerships:
http://www.newzjunky.com/court/090203dm_gmac.htm
I'm sorry to hear that you didn't get what you wanted but as you decided (and correctly so) there is no sense buying something you won't be happy with regardless of the price.
You've been around long enough to know that there are plenty of cars on the floors and lots.
Look at it like this, if you bought it that would have ended all the car talk here because the biz guys aren't doing anything, at least they're not saying anything.
Happy hunting,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Richard, it sounds like the dealership was outstanding........it was a surprise to me. I thought it was going to be a bait and switch deal for sure.
You did the right thing. I think of it as a learning experience. You might formulate a little better in your mind what you do want. You do know you like the car....it's just the color. The price was a good one, and it is amazing that you could get so much for an older SUV (not to put it down but it won't be an easy sell for them).
You could buy it and have it painted, might cost a bit but then you could get the colour of your choice. You could buy it and sometimes you get used to the color and if you don't get it painted in a year or two.
You might ponder the whole thing for awhile and decide to go with it......there are a lot of GMs down here, new and old, and they do look good and solid and comfortable. Sleep on it a bit and don't forget you can always get it repainted, which is nice too, it would feel like a new car again if you do it in a few years.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Sleep on it a bit and don't forget you can always get it repainted, which is nice too, it would feel like a new car again if you do it in a few years.
You said that twice (repaint the car) so I think you'd actually consider this. I'd never let a thought like that enter my cranium. Is that something you Euro car buyers do to change your luck with cars that go to the shop so often or has the Florida sun cooked your brains out? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
First, getting there is half the fun. If the car is just more fun to drive then getting from A to B is going to be part of the enjoyment experience.
The difference in reliability isn't that great these days. BMW is right up there just behind Toyota. If a BMW requires an extra bit of sevice here or there, but you have more enjoyment driving it and it is safer many would prefer that.
If a car is simpler it will probably be more reliable. Less to go wrong. Toyotas have relatively straight forward designs there is less to go wrong. The more features you have the more possibility of a problem.
Euro cars generally have brakes that fade faster, because they want to make them work better. It takes twice as long to stop my rental Ford Fusion as my BMW, but I am sure the brakes in the Fusion will last longer.
Newer Euro cars are not that unreliable....those are stories made up by Toyota salespeople to keep the myth going. Mercedes has a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty, and BMW a 4 year bumper to bumper. I have not paid for a repair and I believe to the best of my ability these cars only went back to the dealer once for warranty work. If you are worried you can get extended warranties at a reasonable price...mainly because the manufacurers know these cars will stay on the road. Over 90% of all the Mercedes sold in the US are still on the road today, so they can't be that unreliable.
If you want to be practical you can drive a a box with a steering wheel and 4 wheels......and for many people that is right for them. Nothing wrong with that, in my mid age adult years I would have done that, bought the most practical car possible. Especially, when money is tight, family considerations, mortgage payments etc.
Now I realize life is short, we are here for a good time not a long time, I prefer reliability, but I don't want boring reliability. And though Toyotas might be reliable, there's more chance I'll see a 10 or 20 year old Mercedes or BMW on the road than a 10 or 20 year old Toyota
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Nah, repainting won't fix a broken down car. I am guessing a good paint job would cost $1500. That's $150 a year if Richard keeps his dream car for 10 years. I know that buys a beer almost a day, for a year, 3 meals out in a year, a coffee every week day for a year, a chocolate bar every other day for a year.
If it is the perfect car and it's just a matter of color then it could be considered. The dealer would probably do it for cost. If I really wanted a car but I wanted a certain color I would really CONSIDER getting it painted. In fact when I got my 2000 Jeep Cherokee I wanted red. The only one left in the model I wanted was silver. I bought it and I thought if I liked the car I'd get it painted in 2 years. I got to like the silver and traded it after 3 years.......so yes, I would think about getting it painted (for the 5th time now).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If you mean the fun comes from quick starts and seeing how well a car takes corners and can it be nimble going in and out of traffic, I'll let you have all of that.
Now I realize life is short, we are here for a good time not a long time, I prefer reliability, but I don't want boring reliability.
You said it again. At your age why would you want to make it even shorter? Do you really drive differently now than in your younger years?
Now is the time to make sure you take care of yourself.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It's really tough out there. I think we have had worse recessions, but this one is worse for D3 dealers because people aren't buying their cars as much...and there's more choice. Also, this credit problem seems to be new. Hope the stimulation package works.
Some European countries are giving tax relief for trading in clunkers for new cars...which reduces the price by about 20%. That might help, but of course we do need credit first.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
OK, I'm right. That Florida sun is especially tough on Canadians. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
No, I drive more carefully than ever. The driving experience is good enough enjoyment, have no desire to drive fast and reckless.
It's more like if you had a classic car. You just drive along and enjoy the experience...being in harmony with the car, the purr of the engine, the control of shifting your own gears, the feel of the road. In fact, you do less of the reckless stuff, because the enjoyment comes from just driving. I believed exactly like you, but then when I test drove my first Euro car (about 10 years ago), there was a complete difference in feel, and it can't be explained, it has to be experienced.
I don't drink much wine, but I guess if your an expert, the only way to see a difference, is to try it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Most German luxury cars will be in the shop far more than most non luxury cars of any make. As for me driving pleasure is not driving to the shop every third month or being stranded someplace.
If low price and reliability are your main objectives in your life than don't bother with a Euro car.
Reliability is an issue for me. If I can buy a $12,500 in 2000 and have a car that goes 160K miles (so far) with no issues then I expect at least that much from a $50,000 car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D