Stories from the Sales Frontlines

oldfarmer50

"...What about a CPO G35..."

Am I the only one who sees what's going on? This woman has the hots for GG and will hang around for a long time asking for his "help" without ever buying a car.

I fell for that same deal about 35 years ago. I even had to marry her to get her to buy the car. :sick:

verdugo

I even had to marry her to get her to buy the car.

At least, unlike the car, she didn't depreciate with age. :shades:

oldfarmer50

"...she didn't depreciate with age..."

Heck no. She even mows the lawn for me. I tried that with the car and it just left ruts. :P

As for GG, just remember, women know that the way to a man's heart...is through his garage.

imidazol97

>Um, if you have a Windows based computer, how exactly do you turn it off?
Correct -- "Start > Shut Down".
Do we find that counterintuitive? Or, have we simply become immune to the issue?
Not any more different than using the "End" button to turn on your cellphone!

Since the criticism has been foisted, I'll respond to the bait:
My cellphone has a green button for talk/answer/dial; it has a red button for end and power off. Does that mean you agree the car should have had a separate red button for turning "off" the car?

On my windows computer, I push the hardware start button to turn it on. Pushing the hardware start button while running puts it into hibernate. The "Start" in the system bar (at bottom on most people's setups) is to start something as in do something; therefore by going to the start icon, I can choose to turn the computer off using software. Cars in most people's memories had ignition keys which rotated to choose start or off; most computers I've used in my lifetime have not had ignition keys which rotated to turn the computer on or off. Computers are a different world from automobiles.

graphicguy

You guys are some funny people....;-) Actually, this is a former, sometimes current girlfriend. Weird relationship that has a place on a Dr Phil forum, but not here.

I actually suggested a CPO G. She wanted new. So, that idea was shot down quickly.

While I can negotiate two deals at once, I don't like doing it, especially with someone who can't make up their mind.

I told her to test drive the Accord coupe and the Altima coupe, back-to-back, and then decide. She did, and still liked both. I received several phone calls while she was at both dealerships.

"They're throwing numbers at me. They don't think the one I drove will be here very long. They're promising 'this'. They're promising 'that' ".

Frankly, I was hoping she'd pick the Accord coupe, as I know the dealership personnel at this particular store. And, I knew that I could strike a good, quick and easy deal with them. The Nissan dealership? Just the exact opposite. They like to grind. I can do that. Just don't like to.

I told her to leave the dealerships and have dinner, to discuss what it is she really wanted. Bottom line, she liked the styling of the Altima better than the Accord. I was fairly certain that both (considering there were some left over '09 Hondas, but no '10 Altima coupes to be found) would be within a few hundred of each other). We also decided not to trade her "I", but get it all shiny and slap a "4 sale" sign in it. It runs good. Needs nothing, and would make a nice 2nd car for someone.

We also talked about resale. The '10 Accord would have better value down the road than the '09 Altima. Considering that she keeps her cars for about a decade, that didn't really matter, though.

Have to admit, it was pretty amazing how much sheet metal is the same with the Altima coupe vs the G coupe. A different grill treatment and tail treatment, but other than that, they seem to look like the same sheet metal. Interiors were a bit different. Still, more similarities than differences once you look closely.

Off to the Nissan store. The one she really liked was a white 3.5 coupe, with an aftermarket "blingy" grill.

We walk into the "non-preferred" Nissan store and were immediately greeted by the sales person who had been helping her. As I usually do, I have my little spread sheet with the offer she and I agreed on, with an "out the door" number (including taxes, doc fees, etc). This car had nav, stability control, some sort of premium package and floor mats. What I didn't prepare for was the addendum sticker for the after market grill ($995, according to the addendum). We test drive the Altima one last time.

"You sure this is what you want?"

"Yes"

Get back the showroom and I present our offer (my spread sheet), $29,200 + the taxes and fees (inserted an extra $50 for doc fees). Sales person looks at it, and immediately tells us he has to take it to the SM. 5 minutes go by, and out from his office comes the SM.

"Is everyone being taken care of? Want a soda? Coffee?"

"Nope, just wondering if we've got a deal".

"Well, you've certainly done your homework, except we can't do this deal".

As I look at her, and she looks at me, I stand up, thank them for their time, and begin to head out.

SM looks a bit shocked, and immediately says we're ONLY about $1,300 apart. That I didn't take into consideration the aftermarket grill (he's right), and that the doc fee is actually $275 (maybe, but not today).

Here comes the bump game.

"We're too far apart. She likes the car, but not $1,300 more than what we've offered. We'll keep shopping."

Again, I thank them for their time. She's getting anxious. I shoot a look her way, and she keeps the silence.

This time we get out the door. She's unhappy, but I mention to her they aren't the only Nissan dealer in town. She likes THIS car, though.

As we're getting into her car, the SM comes back out and offers.... "I'll eat the doc fee....let me make some money on the grill. It's not free."

She whispers...."let's at least see if we can get close to your spreadsheet."

I harrumph and acquiesce.

Back into the dealership we go. They know she's "got the new car fever". And, I doubt they'll let us leave without a deal. As a matter of pride, I'm not going to let that fact deter me. I'm resolute.

They make points....great car, not many Atima coupes in the area equipped like the one we drover (probably true), etc.

I make points.....'10 models are only a few weeks from hitting their lots.....we have two other Nissan dealerships we want to visit.

But, right now, we're not negotiating for a car, but for an aftermarket grill.

The grind ensues. They drop the price of the grill by $100. I counter with adding $75 to the offer. They drop their price by $250. I up ours another $150.

We're now $425 apart. SM offers $400. I offer $300. We split the difference.

I add $350 to my offer. Refigure the taxes and add in the tag costs.

Done deal. We shake hands.

One last effort was made in the business office to add in the doc fees. I become a little disturbed. They said, "honest mistake". Doc fee is now not part of the deal (as I had to get the SM back into the office to confirm).

Everybody is happy!

sterlingdog

What a marvelous two-part story! It was well written, and contained striking phrases and a touch of sophisticated verbiage. It flowed so easily, and kept the reader intrigued up to the closing. The story makes a poster want to buy an Altima. Greenpea will be thrilled beyond words.

Also, you exhibited the epitome of negotiation skills. Your grinding enabled the young lady to get a nice automobile, but it also allowed the dealer to make some profit. The perfect balance was struck.

Just think. If the relationship turns to a serious tone, you'll end up with a car that you helped to select. She probably won't mow the grass. Oldfarmer just got lucky. Thanks for a much needed story!

Richard

sterlingdog

I must say that I both salute and admire your response. The justification for your views is so well "posed and prosed" that the critics will never be able to determine if you are correct. Your written expression rises to a level above double talk. It's double entente! :P Congratulations!

Richard

sterlingdog

Since she mows the grass, can we at least assume that you wash the cars? Also, does she do all of the cooking and cleaning? If so, do you realize what a jewel you married?

Richard

graphicguy

Thanks, Richard. Good to know that 16+ years of an education didn't go for naught. The least I could come away with was the ability to read, speak and write.

I'm in the midst of another deal that "Altima woman's" best friend is trying to swing. Kind of got hoodwinked into that one, too. But, once again, she has to decide what it is she wants before I can do my thing.

jimbres

Thanks for the well-told sales story.

boomchek

That's a good story GG. Thanks for sharing it because it sometimes helps me as a salesperson see the customer's point of view and their thinking.

You went in there, all business, and were ready to walk out if the deal didn't make sense to you. In the end it worked out well for both parties. Good job.

stickguy

I will post the full story once it ends, but I am in the process of helping a quasi-relative (in laws cousin) with a purchase, but doing it long distance via email (with her, not the dealer).

Not the easiest way to go about it, but she thinks I am some kind of car shopping savant at this pint.

Of course, whe hasn't bought a car since her current one, and that is a 1998. Plus, whe has a nice case of dealer phobia.

She would be perfectly happy to have me go in and do all the negotiating and groundwaork, but she lives about 2.5 hours away. So, she gets free tips and tricks, plus target prices to offer.

Hopefully it all turns out well.

oldfarmer50

"...do you realize what a jewel you married?..."

Yes I do.

imidazol97

>Congratulations!

You are indeed perceptive and well educated in your assessment. Those thesis-writing skills are useful in twisting the written word. Maybe I should go into politics now that I have some time.

There's nothing wrong with a key or switch that one turns to turn off the darned car--one of those things with an "On" and "Off" setting.

explorerx4

so who is thinking you are a car shopping savant after a pint(or two)?

sterlingdog

"You are indeed perceptive..."

I've just had so much experience. :P

"Maybe I should go into politics..."

Your style of politics would certainly be better than what I see coming out of Washington these days.

Richard

tjc78

There's nothing wrong with a key or switch that one turns to turn off the darned car--one of those things with an "On" and "Off" setting.

You know what's funny? On my last car purchase, I said I HAD to have the "smart key" now that I have it....its cool, but honestly thats where it ends. A minor convenience item. When I drive my 99 S10 its not like I say "Oh crap I have to put the key in"

oldfarmer50

"...I said I HAD to have the "smart key"..."

The Chrysler T&C I sometimes drive at work has what I guess is a "smart key" (not a regular key but a fob that fits into a slot on the dash).

One day I was driving it on a long trip on the interstate. As I shifted in the driver's seat my knee bumped the key and the van died right then and there. I wasn't sure what had happened or how to re start the vehicle while moving. I coasted off the side of the road with no power and tried a re-start once I was stopped. The van started right up and I continued on my way.

I never had that happen with a regular key. Scary.

graphicguy

boom, thanks! Dissecting the deal in hindsight, the dealership set their ceiling when they said "we're $1,300 apart". I set our floor when we offered $29,200.

The rest was just trying to find the number in between that everyone would be happy with. That's where the "grind" comes into play. I'd rather just present my offer, and make it a "go, or no go" proposition. If it's "no go", I'll move on.

It's easier when there aren't legit after market accessories involved (etching, mop & glo, to me, aren't legit value builders). There's certainly some value to an aftermarket grill. But, finding what that is worth is a whole other story....at least to the buyer. Some buyers love that stuff. Personally, I do not. More often than not, I find aftermarket grills, wheels, door handles, etc, to look....well....."pimpy" (for lack of a better word). Some don't see it that way, though.

I don't fault a dealership's efforts in trying to add some value to their product via aftermarket accessories. It's difficult to make money without them, for the most part.

I always try to rely on the fact that the dealership will take a skinny deal, in exchange for a quick, easy deal.

Most don't feel that way though. Most think (both on the dealership's end, and the buyer's end) that it's imperative to sit at the negotiation table for an extended period of time to do in an hour, what could take 10 or 15 minutes.

I realize I'm in the minority in my approach, however.

stickguy

well, my take on the aftermarket stuff is, if I don't want it, and it adds no actual value, I won't pay for it.

so, my offer would be as if it didn't exist. Then the dealer can either throw it in, or feel free to put it back to stock. The origianl grill must be around someplace, right? So put it back on the car.

stickguy

is there any fine print? Do you pay for miles used, or are you required to buy a replacement?

Or maybe it is like best Buy, where they charge you a 15% restocking fee!

tedebear

I did not see any fine print. It says that there's a 4,000 mile limit during the time you have it and the offer is valid for one per household. No restocking fee and you even get back whatever sales tax you paid. DMV plates might cost a few dollars but I had that worked out with a temporary tag, which is very cheap.

driver100

Just back from Baltic cruise. Saw lots of nice cars in Stockholm, Copenhagen Helsinki but was amazed at the number of luxury cars in St Petersburg. Probably about 20to 25% of cars were high end. Low end got pretty low, with quite a few of these.

driver100

though they usually look more like this;

imidazol97

>There's certainly some value to an aftermarket grill.

I find offense at a dealer adding these things before a customer purchases the car. The same goes for the soft addons like wax or spot proofing the upholstery or the canvas roofs and gold ornaments the downtown Dayton dealer used to add to Buicks (and the south dealer Ross).

I like your approach of offer--take it or leave it; call me if you change your mind.

sterlingdog

Welcome home! Hope you enjoyed your trip. I love the square lines of the white car. What is the make , who produced it, what are the options, and how much does it cost in U.S. dollars?

Richard

oldfarmer50

...or the canvas roofs..."

My Chrysler dealer put one of those on a 300. ADM was $2995. :surprise:

cdnpinhead

working the system, which is part of why the system is so f (well, let's say fouled) up. What starts as a reasonable program to help a few people ends up being exploited by those who don't want to pay for what they get -- this GM deal, the Mitsu thing, welfare, you name it.

That's why the Liberals never deliver what they promise -- "safety nets" become abused entitlements in a heartbeat. . .and here we are.

stickguy

well, if you beleive that the used car market is drying up (real tight supply), it probably wouldn't hurt to have a lottle flow of lightly used current MY units to market!

driver100

I love the square lines of the white car. What is the make , who produced it, what are the options

Thanks, nice to be back, but that was a great trip. Norwegian Jewel from England, to Copenhagen, Wundermunde Germany, Estonia, St Petersburg, Helsinki and Stockholm.

I like cars with square lines too, the squarer the better. That's why I really wanted to keep my Jeep Cherokee...I thought it would be a classic one day. Almost every other car looks like a bubble, try to make it all curvy. Women are supposed to be curvy - cars straight.

Believe it or not the white car is a Lada, the same as the red car below it. I actually did see one in Russia that looked very similar. If they are in perfect condition and jazzed up just a bit they can look pretty nice.....most of the ones in St Petes look like they are on their last legs.

I have reviewed all the posts I missed since Sept 5th and I will look into Mac on CarSpace during the week, after I unpack.

oldfarmer50

"...wouldn't hurt to have a little flow of lightly used current MY units..."

Not if they were "lightly" used. I fear that those cars would be among the most abused vehicles ever traded.

I can just see the sales pitch: "Why yes Mr. stickguy, this fine vehicle is a "demo" that was only driven by the owners' grandmother. Yes, the tires are a little bald but that's so you get better traction, like the race car drivers. Oh, and that smoke coming out the back? That's a safety feature so other drivers won't tailgate you." :lemon:

sterlingdog

I agree with you. Those GM cars would probably be pretty abused by people who had no thought of buying them. This has to be one of the dumbest marketing strategies so far. :mad: With the bail out funds and profits from C4C, GM must be willing to splurge a bit. :sick:

Richard

verdugo

This has to be one of the dumbest marketing strategies so far.

I don't think it's a dumb idea. It just smells of desperation. Their cars are supposed to be getting better, so if it brings traffic into the showrooms it might pay off.

sterlingdog

Now that Boomchek has explained the $200 damage clause, it makes more sense. They can always claim that you did something to the car that would cost $200 to fix. Then again, what is to prevent you from just walking out the door? You never signed papers to buy the car. You only tried out the car for two months. I would imagine that there is more fine print here than meets the eye.

"It just smells of desperation."

I think that it smells of something worse than that---deception and entitlement in the market place. What a dangerous combination!

Richard

jwilliams2

You never signed papers to buy the car. You only tried out the car for two months.
You actually do "buy" the car, with all supporting paperwork. The program only gives you the option to return it. So I doubt just dropping the car off and walking away would be an option.

And Boomchek makes an excellent point. If the dealer suspects a joyrider, I'm sure they could find $200 in damages to disallow the return.

graphicguy

Stickguy....I'm with you. I'm not much into aftermarket anything. If I like a car, I like it as it came from the factory. For the most part, aftermarket wheels adversely affects the handling. The other "bling", like aftermarket grills just detracts from the look, IMHO. And, I'm certainly not of the mind to pay for something I don't like.

But, some folks like it. I don't happen to be one of them.

If the aftermarket options add some sort of functional benefit (thinking about things like window tint, cross braces, performance air filters, etc), I'm more likely to be more accepting. But, few dealerships offer those types of functional aftermarket options.

That said, I understand where dealerships are coming from in adding aftermarket options. It's tough to make money on a vehicle as it is equipped from the factory. The competition is too fierce among dealerships. And, it's too easy for the consumer to find out how much money the dealership has tied up in a new car without the aftermarket "bling".

Kirstie_H

I moved some of these to the GM Money-Back Guarantee thread.

dtezla

If I ever go back to working at a dealership, the cars they sell MUST have smart keys. They make life so much easier when moving around the lot - rather than having to key each car seperately, we just walk around with a box with ALL the keys in it - start each car & move on. Cuts the time to rearrange the lot by more than half!

lrguy44

It sure would make a Rodeo much easier

madmanmoo

I have never seen so much rain in my entire life. We have had days upon days of straight rain and it is a downpour. Not drizzling. A deluge.

Unreal.

nortsr1

You should live in Florida during a huricane!!!

michaellno

I have never seen so much rain in my entire life.

Rain?

We don't need no stinkin' rain.

We've got snow here in Colorado today .. not much, mind you (< 1"), but, still.

It's September!

Not looking forward to winter. Not one tiny bit. Wife is already griping about the cold weather and how she wants to move to Arizona.

Some day ... and, should that day ever come, we could get rid of her AWD Saturn VUE and get something else (just to keep this post on topic).

sterlingdog

Please send us some! We are as dry as bones. The forecast has been calling for it for days, but we keep missing it. If we don't get rain soon, we'll be back on "Water Usage Alert".

To stay on topic: I could leave the top down for two weeks, and the car would never get wet.

Richard

sterlingdog

Thanks for pointing that out to me. The paperwork is more extensive than I realized.

Richard

lrguy44

Michael, we are up here freezing in Superior - can you send up ome of that tropical Castle Rock air? The cold is killing car sales.

oldfarmer50

"...never seen so much rain in my life..."

Weren't you people in Georgia just complaining about a drought? Make up your mind will ya. :P

That weather must kill the convertible sales.

fezo

Sorry about all your rain in Georgia. Up here at the Jersey shore we had a rare (for this summer) just perfect drop top day. I made as much good use of that as I could.

Kind of kicking myself about that nice 9-3 that rover had...

british_rover

That got delivered Sat.

I have a 2004 new body vert to replace it in Lime yellow/green. Now that is a car that will get you noticed.

fezo

Might get me noticed but not in a way I might want.....

I'm surprised it only got delivered Saturday. It disappeared from the page. I was oh so close..... It was even a stick.

sterlingdog

Moo, I just saw on CBS where you have had 20 inches of rain since Saturday! You are expecting 4 more inches tomorrow. The flooding looked really bad. This is no time for car sales. Take care and stay dry.

Richard