Stories from the Sales Frontlines

sterlingdog

You're right. I apologize. I guess that I was in a mood.

To Driver: Thanks for being so diplomatic.

Richard

sterlingdog

LMAO!

Richard

imidazol97

>politics

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f1d3f68/521

murphydog

LOL - I thought this was over?

I think people objected when you suggested that some outside object (or persons) should determine the final sales price between two parties. I really did not care where care how a dealer got his/her cars to put up for sale, nor do I care how the buyer planned on paying for his/her new car.

What I do care about is that the "deal" remain between the buyer and the seller for the most part - I am not a fan of snake oil salesmen! They alone can decide what is best for them, and by definition if the deal gets done neither side can claim to be "ripped" off.

driver100

They alone can decide what is best for them, and by definition if the deal gets done neither side can claim to be "ripped" off.

Yeh, I thought it was over too..........but now, I have to respond.

by definition if the deal gets done neither side can claim to be "ripped" off.

Many deals are done, and at least one party gets ripped off, so I have to respectfully disagree on that point.

The seller in this case has a huge advantage, they got the merchandise (the car which they were selling the day before for a few $1000 less). The customer has a coupon worth $4000 which they must spend by a certain date to take advantage of the offer.

Let's go back to the cornflakes and use a stupid example. Let's say the government decided to give the poor folks a coupon to get a $4 box of cornflakes for $2 off, just to help them get a good nutritious start to the day. The stores see cornflakes are selling so move the price up to $5.50. Is it illegal....no! Is it a rip off and gouging of the public?
Yes!

I am a big fan of the free enterprise capitalist system, especially after a trip to St Petersburg Russia, where I'd be lucky to be driving a beat up old Lada. But, it would be better if companies tried to operate with a certain amount of dignity and fairness...........not trying to make every last dollar any way possible.

boomchek

customer has a coupon worth $4000 which they must spend by a certain date to take advantage of the offer......... amount of dignity and fairness...........not trying to make every last dollar any way possible

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............

Time for a sales story:

So I got promoted and got a raise.

I was in charge of internet leads and wasn't taking floor ups. Now the leads have dwindled down to only a handful, so they're gonna be merged with our subprime dept and go to someone else and I'll be in charge of what I wanted to do originally: Internet Marketing.

So I get to be creative and still make comission on anybodsy I bring it but I'll have less pressure on me to move units since my job will be to bring people in the door.

Good timing too with the raise..............

qbrozen

Not a very exciting one, I'll admit, but better than nothing.

We had been looking to trade my '04 G35X for a wagon for the wife. Bullseyed the '03-'05 Passat wagon and were driving far and wide checking out various examples. Any time we'd strike out (or I should say the car did), we'd start driving in and out of lots to see what was there. On many occassions, I pointed out Mazda5s to the wife. She refused each time. I guess I wore her down because she FINALLY agreed to at least drive one.

I wanted to find one close by, any one, to just try it out. I was aiming for an '06-'07 to keep in our pricerange. None were close. But there was an '09 not too far from home. I explained to the salesperson what we were after. She said they had none other than this used '09. She then proceeded to drag us inside to get all the particulars. Now, I gotta say, I didn't like how this all started out. We still hadn't even sat in the vehicle and she starts collecting all of my info, trade, etc, etc. I'm thinking "was I not clear in our intentions?" Thankfully, she stops just short of talking numbers and offers up a test drive.

Wifey likes it! Ok, great. Now I just gotta set about finding an '06-'07 we can cut a deal on. Of course, I'm thinking now I just gotta let the salesperson know to call me when one comes in. But she brings out the manager to try to deal on this one. I insist over and over that the numbers won't work on this one. PLUS, wife wants a moonroof, which this doesn't have. So I throw that out there. He persists. Pulls the "well, if I am able to do X, Y, and Z for you and add moonroof, do we have a deal?" Of course I say yes. I've been here before. I know the routine. He won't be able to hit the numbers.

He comes back again with a big overallowance on my trade and a big discount on the car. Huh. I'll be damned, he's getting REAL close. I'm surprised at how close. I waiver a bit, but no, I gotta stick to my goal. One more time, "OK, how about A, B, and C? THEN do we have a deal?" Yeah. Sure. He sticks out his hand and says to the salesperson, "write it up!" I'm floored. I don't get it. What happened?

Its right about then that it hits me. I know this guy. I've been in this same situation before. I ask the salesperson about the manager and where he's been before. Yup, sure enough, he was the manager at the Dodge dealer where we bought my sister's caliber!

Well, now I'm waiting to hit the F&I office and find out the truth. And ... here's the boring part ... it was all accurate. I'll be damned. No surprises. Turns out, best as I can figure, he made next to nothing on the Mazda5 (unless he got it for way below trade value). Claims he hopes to make it up reselling my G35X. *shrug*

verdugo

Trying to save money by making the cheapest possible part could be very false economy, as when you get exploding Pintos.

The Pinto was before my time, but wasn't that an engineering fault rather than a part that wasn't made to spec?

verdugo

Congrats on the promotion boom!

BTW, I'm in Poland right now :-)

driver100

So I got promoted and got a raise.

Congratulation boom, that is wonderful news. Well deserved too, I can tell by your thoughtful replies that you go the extra mile for your customers.

Good luck with this new position, sounds like it is right on target for your field of interest.
How is the little one doing?

driver100

If you are still out there, I was thinking of something else for you to consider.

I think you said your payments were about $400 a month on the Ody.

You hoped to get a used car that would cost $300 a month.

I think you almost have to build in an extra $100 a month which is only $1200 a year for repairs. Repairs could be less than that, but they could be way more too. I don't think there is much of a safety cushion.
Best plan might be to let the dealer take back if it is only a $433 payment, consider buying a cheaper new car with payments around $300 a month.
Just something to think about.

driver100

Claims he hopes to make it up reselling my G35X. *shrug*

Good story and well told. I think one great factor you had working in your favor was that you were not desperate. Salespeople can probably spot desperation immediately.

I have bought cars when my trade in was a wreck and I didn't know what would break down next - NOT GOOD. I did much better when I wanted the new car, but not that badly.

murphydog

why would anybody buy something if you think you are getting ripped off? you go to the store and see corn flakes are no $5.50 instead of $4.00 and you still buy them?

So as a consumer you have a choice, but the cornflakes anyway, buy a different box of breakfast flakes or...not buy anything at all, right?

Think the cornflakes stay at $5.50 if nobody buys them?

Or better yet my example - Dryers ice cream reduced the size of their ice cream boxes, yet kept the price the same - I decided that this was no longer a good deal and now buy a different brand of ice cream. Did I need somebody else telling them they can't do that? Or that they should always charge $xx.xx per ounce of ice cream? Of course not. I decided to try others and found something I like

Will this impact Dryers in the long run, I don't know, but I impacted my side of the deal and went with something else.

The great thing here is we have multiple substitutes of products, and better yet consumers can decide not to buy most of the time.

Even C4C was the same - lots of brands and dealers to choose from. At the end of the day any consumer looking at a deal that was "bad" was free to shop at lots and lots of other places.

It can't be a bad deal if you voluntarily agree to it, unless there are other factors (e.g. gun to your head, or you have mental challenges etc...)

oldfarmer50

"...I don't get it..."

Did you check the car out real good? Maybe it just swam up from Georgia.

I hope you got a Carfax or a least checked the glove box for catfish.

Otherwise Congrats!

driver100

why would anybody buy something if you think you are getting ripped off?\

Ask the people who bought stocks from bernie Madoff. How about people who bought Edsels, Firenzas, Vegas. How about cars sold that were in floods. How about people who buy vacuum cleaners from door to door salesman and realize they just bought a $3000 vacuum.

Just because a deal is consummated, doesn't mean one party wasn't ripped off.

Hopefully, when a deal is made, all sides are happy, but that isn't always the case.

I would do what you did with the Dryers example.......but sometimes you don't always get the chance to vote with your buying power.

snakeweasel

So I got promoted and got a raise.

Congrats, are you going to buy a new car with your new found wealth?

graphicguy

'Grats Boom. I know you've been working hard. Good to hear it paid off. Well deserved.

oldfarmer50

"...I got promoted..."

Excellent. Well deserved.

murphydog

OK - agreed that criminal transactions are bad -

but are you equating selling a car to a criminal act?

wowza!

stickguy

I alsways like getting the newer model year unless the miles are going to be way out of whack.

Also, they did a model refresh for 2008, which added some nice features to address complaints from owners of the '06-'07 MYs. Stuff like armrests, etc. Small stuff, but things you want.

cdnpinhead

From a used-to-be lower mainlander -- congratulations!

You represent the kind of salesperson I'd dearly love to work with.

Last time, it didn't happen (in a big way).

Anyway, enjoy!

qbrozen

Thanks.

qbrozen

Damn, farmer, and I thought I was a pessimist! ;b

Mind you, I said "he made next to nothing." He did make something. How much, I'm not sure. My rough guess is about $500.

driver100

OK - agreed that criminal transactions are bad -
but are you equating selling a car to a criminal act?

I try to be a careful consumer but the scam artists are always around. How many people pay money down to get home repairs, and then the guy takes off. Ever try to make an insurance claim and the company fights back, and doesn't want to pay you. I've had problems being scammed by my telephone company and cable company. I entered into agreements with them, and they might have been satisfied, but I wasn't. And, in many cases there isn't a competitor I can turn to.

So, although I voluntarily entered into an agreement, I am not satisfied.

.

Selling the car at a bumped up price is not illegal (or a criminal act)....just unethical. It should have been made illegal, just like the example of selling necessities during an emergency (like a flood, or tornado etc.)

snakeweasel

but are you equating selling a car to a criminal act?

It is in Illinois if you do it on a Sunday.

sterlingdog

I can't think of anyone nicer to receive a raise and a promotion other than you. I'm very proud of you. It's perfect timing with the little one about to arrive. As I've said before, you have a new home, a baby on the way, and now a raise and a promotion. You're living the right kind of life. Salesmen like you are the jewels of the auto industry. May your happiness continue.

Richard

sterlingdog

That was a grand story written in good form. We are grateful to have received it. I wish you many happy miles in your new purchase.

Richard

sterlingdog

I thought of all of you today. I was in the Hallmark Shop buying a card for my niece who is moving to Italy to attend design school. There in front of my eyes was a little card section for people who have just purchased cars. I never knew such cards existed! There was one that was especially cute.

The front of the card has a new little car with the words "We send recognition...". It continues on the inside with the words "on your new ignition." There were a few other choices as well. These cards might make a neat follow-up for the salesmen to use. I do declare. You can find most anything these days.

Richard

verdugo

but sometimes you don't always get the chance to vote with your buying power.

Really? I would say that you almost always (if not always) have a chance to vote with your buying power.

driver100

I would say that you almost always (if not always) have a chance to vote with your buying power.

I don't think so. We have cable TV and there isn't an alternative, unless I go to satelite which is very different and would have it's own set of problems. I guess my choice is to put up an aerial which won't work very well with HD-TV.

I sometimes take a plane and Air Canada is the only airline that will get me to some places. I think they have a policy at Air Canada which is "Let's try to aggravate the customer as much as possible". I sometimes don't have an alternative. Lately they have cancelled flights or move you to another plane and you get very different seats than the one you picked.

I entered into an agreement with Bell mobility for my cell phone. We both entered the agreement voluntarily so we should both be happy right? Not when they charged me $250 for a 5 minute call they logged at 5 and a half hours. I was able to prove I talked for less than that because the battery would only last 30 minutes on roaming. Now we have more than one phone company, but my new carrier (since that incident) was just bought by Bell again.....there goes my choice :sick:

Back to C4C. You can't always walk because you might want a particular model and if it is popular dealers were raising the price. You are also limited to the distance you want to travel, and the amount of time you have to spend. So, voting by changing isn't quite as easy as it sounds in some cases.

driver100

I am taking the Odyssey back.

I think you made a wise decision. Most of us know what you were going through and we understand your situation. These situations give you knowledge about how to work out these problems in the future.

I bought new cars during my young family days, and then stayed up all night wondering if I could maintain the payments, or what would happen if I lost my job. One thought that helped was to realize, the worst that could happen is they'll come and take it away. Another thing is a used car that is not reliable could cost you a job - if you are always late for example. But, when I look back I am not sorry I bought any of the cars I did at the time....prices went up and I had good dependable cars.

We can only try to make the most informed and best decision possible, and I think you did the right thing

sterlingdog

Well, in my mind there is "Used" and then there is "Used". My last purchase was a one year old program car. It had 10k miles and two years of remaining warranty. The convertible is just like new but I purchased it for $15k less than when it was new one year earlier. To me, that's quite a savings. If you were making payments, that $15k represents between $250 and $300 per month with finance charges. Also, with the two year warranty you could purchase an extended warranty if you like. For me, it has been the best of both worlds---lower purchase price and fairly new car.

I can certainly appreciate your point of view, and I wish you the best with your decision.

Richard

driver100

For me, it has been the best of both worlds---lower purchase price and fairly new car.

Richard, I don't know if the guy who bought your low mileage almost new Cadillac would agree :shades: Ha ha!

However, I do agree, if you want the best value possible, a low mileage one or two year old car is the way to go. Biggest part of the depreciation has come off - possibly 1/3 of the value, and you still have 80 or 90% of the life of the car left. But, I think in Scott's case, he wouldn't have been further ahead trading in a good used car, and buying another used car, to save a few dollars a month.

Kirstie_H

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sterlingdog

"...the worst that could happen is that they'll come and take it away."

Well, not exactly. Your credit would have been ruined for about seven years, and you would have had difficulty trying to purchase something to get yourself to work. Still, when we were younger we did worry about making those payments.

I think that the trick to buying "used' is not to buy too "used". Over the years, I've enjoyed success with program cars and rentals. Some actually out performed my new car purchases. It's all partly a roll of the dice. You do the research, check the cars out in person, try to find a reputable dealer, and seek out a good salesman. Following all of that, you take a leap of faith and jump in the water.

Such is life. We suffer through our mistakes and enjoy our successes.

Richard

driver100

Well, not exactly. Your credit would have been ruined for about seven years, and you would have had difficulty trying to purchase something to get yourself to work.

Correct, but, you have to try to rationalize these things in your mind. in real life, if I lost my job and had to pay off the car I would have stocked shelves in a grocery store or would have done something to pay off the car. I would collect unemployment insurance if I was really destitute. Only did that once so I could take a course in running my own business. The cost of the course has been repaid many times over from the tax money I generated and the 12 to 15 people we employ who pay taxes....not to mention sales tax on the product.

You do have to take risks somewhere along the line and buying a car is probably a small one in the scheme of things. You can also sell the car and try to pay off the difference, or it might not be worth them coming after you. I tried to pay my cars off faster than the depreciation was falling...to leave a comfort zone, in case I got the axe, which happened quite a few times in my illustrious career.
I built one successful company, but I would never hire myself to work for me!

british_rover

I didn't say if I agreed with the protests or not just that I didn't think this was the place to talk about them. I tried to keep it as neutral as possible so why get your dander up?

Two of the other sites I frequent for discussing automobiles have been almost completely taken over by political sniping in the past couple of months. Much of it was related to CARS and I could kind of let that pass as long as it was constructive but it stopped being constructive pretty quickly. One of those sites even has a specific politics section but threads that have nothing do with politics get overwhelmed by it.

I just don't want to see that happen over here too.

If you want to talk about my opinion on the subject of Richard's post my email is always public.

qbrozen

Thanks, richard.

Part 2 of the story is currently in development. Credit union is giving me a bit of a hard time. They don't like the way the purchase order was constructed. Currently, it reads I owe the dealership $2k. I relayed what I was told, that I bring them a check for $2k plus the title to my Infiniti. CU doesn't understand. They say it should be the total amount there, not just the difference. But then, of course, the dealership would have to turn around and pay BACK the CU for the Infiniti.

Seems to me the dealership was saving a step. Maybe I'm wrong.

british_rover

Ha god credit unions are dumb sometimes. A couple of months ago we had a couple trading in their 203 S60 for a nearly new S40 where the credit union had the loan on the S60 and would get the loan on the S40. There is three or four thousand in equity on the S60.

We could come close to their rate but not match it so they wanted to go with their credit union. They didn't want to pay the extra .3 or .4 percent so they went with the CU.

Our F&I guy trys to handle handle the finance deal with the CU like he always does in this kind of situation. The customer gets the title to their car brings that in with a check from the CU for the difference and everything is all done. Easier paperwork and less money floating around on bank checks.

The CU won't do that which is fine that happens sometimes so we will do the extra paperwork but you guys a check for the payoff on the S60 after they trade it in and you just give them the loan for the full amount of the S40.

No they won't do that either because it is, "not in the best interest of the member," they will only loan the amount of the S40 minus the payoff on the S60 then once they get the payoff on the S60 from us they will send us the balance.

Uhhh no.

Well then just send us the payoff for the S60 now and we will give the full loan check to the member after that check clears in a couple of days.

Uhhh no again.

Its not like they were paying way too much for the S40 either we were well below book value for the car and the amount financed was even farther below that as the equity on the S60 more then covered the little bit of tax and reg fees they owed.

The credit union nearly queered the whole deal because they would not give the customer a check for the right amount. It just devolved from there and got even stupider I don't even know all the details.

We finally got the customer financed through us and they just paid the extra 0.3 or whatever percent.

verdugo

Give yourself some credit.

You have tons of choices with cable. Satellite (just b/c it comes with its own sets of problems doesn't mean it's not an alternative), ditto for aerial, and most radical of all, you could stop watching tv.

Air Canada? Nobody is forcing you to take it. You could always drive. Sure, it'll be a pain, but it's an alternative.

You always have choices. They might not be the most convenient, but there is always a choice.

lrguy44

Most of the local credit unions belonged to an organization that handled indirect lending for them. In fact, the CUs would prefer the member did the paperwork at the dealer. The organization would give approvals within certain criteria (LTV, Credit Score, DTI, term, etc) and would refer close calls to the CU for approval. As the used rates are the same as the new rates all the dealers sent the CUs a ton of business. No markup for the member and 1 stop shopping. Well, the new dealer agreement comes out wanting full dealer recourse on deals that go south. Needless to say, thier indirect business is done.

sterlingdog

I wasn't offended by your request. You even used the word "please". The words "thank you" and "please" go along way with me. I wasn't completely off topic because the comment was related to cars. Still, I can see your point. Also, I have never known you not to be a gentleman on this site.

Richard

sterlingdog

"I don't know if the guy who bought your low mileage almost new Cadillac would agree."

That is just too funny!!! I'm sure that you are correct.

BTW, you might not hire yourself, but I would hire you based on your logical thinking and diplomacy. Then again, you might cause me some trouble on issues like C4C. :P

Richard

british_rover

Oh I know you weren't I should have made it more clear that my response was to Houdini who seemed a bit miffed at me.

As I said ask me whatever you want over my email but I just don't care to get into that particular topic here.

Oh and Cliff I wish our credit union system was set up that way. Getting set up with the one credit union we have took months of jumping through hoops and the two others we tried to get set up with still won't play ball.

I will say once we got set up with the CU we have they have been great. Very reasonable terms, good to work with and don't typically make stupid requests.

lrguy44

Now that is the route we have to go. Just do not understand why the CUs wanted full recourse unless it was a way for all of them to exit the indirect biz. It was a good run for a lot of years and made thousands of deals a year.

driver100

You always have choices. They might not be the most convenient, but there is always a choice.

What if I don't like our electric company? Or gas company? Who do I go to then. I know, I can learn to live without. Or, I can always build a fire.
Thanks!

cdnpinhead

You could always drive. Sure, it'll be a pain, but it's an alternative.

Well, yeah, I suppose you could hitch-hike or walk too.

However, Canada's a pretty big place. The Trans Canada highway is ~4850 miles long, from St. Johns to Victoria. Long drive. Longer walk, but do-able.

jipster

I insist over and over that the numbers won't work on this one

Yeah... this story won't work without the numbers either. How can we tear this thing apart if you don't provide us with the price given for your trade in and the Mazda 5?

You got the 2009 Mazda 5 for roughly the price of a 2007. So, I'm guesstimating you ended up paying around $3,000 - 4,000 less than you thought? That's pretty good for a 6 seater "mini"van with good gas mileage.

I read an article today where dealerships are absolutely dead from all the C4C buying from the previous month. So, the midsize and up sized cars should command a fairly large discount.

Well, now I'm waiting to hit the F&I office and find out the truth. And ... here's the boring part ... it was all accurate. I'll be damned. No surprises.

Well that sucks! After reading the recent Edmunds article on how one should "Beware of the F & I Guy", I thought you would come out of his office minus your undergarments and first born. :P

lrguy44

So you do not have options on all things in life. So what. But when it comes to a consumer purchase you have options. To buy or not to buy, that is an option. To buy X, Y or Z. That is an option. Sorry, but that is life.
The CFC program gave many people more money. Dealers were left out with in some cases many thousands of dollars that they had to carry before being reimbursed by the government. For many dealers that resulted in cash flow problems. Finally, the government's goal was to jump start the industry. Even id prices were higher due to the old capitalist edict of supply and demand, consumer's came out better if not the best.

verdugo

What if I don't like our electric company? Or gas company? Who do I go to then. I know, I can learn to live without. Or, I can always build a fire.

Don't like electric company? Very easy. Go solar. Not enough sun up there? You could always move to a place with more sun.

Don't like your gas company? Use only electricity!

Don't like your gas company and you don't like tthe electric company? Maybe the problem is you? :P