Stories from the Sales Frontlines

british_rover

Like most car dealers we don't really make any money on the new car side of thing. Almost all car dealerships are that way. Sure we may show 500 or so in gross on a new car but a 500 dollar gross on a 30,000-40,000 dollar car isn't actually a profit. A 500 dollar gross is actually pretty high and doesn't come close to covering all the costs associated with a new car deal.

But on that new car deal maybe we get a nice trade that we can make a couple thousand in gross on.

Plus we will get service and parts business from that new car customer and hopefully the used car customer too. We even do a fair bit of business servicing the off-brand used cars that we sell. Just doing the basic oil changes and brake job type stuff that aren't very make specific.

We have been trying to get back to just breaking even on the new car side of the business over the past few months but it has been tough. Historically we pretty much made zero on the new car side after expenses. With how tough things have been over the past year we have been losing a few thousand dollars every month. We made enough on the used car side to cover those loses but no one is going to be making any significant money till we can get the new car side back to about zero and continue what we are doing on the used car side.

Service always makes money and they make 2/3s to 3/4s, sometimes more, of the profit at a typical dealership.

You put a quick edit in after I posted. All new car dealerships, excluding the exotics and near exotics, operate pretty close to a zero net for the new car sales side.

explorerx4

fez,
hope all is well and if you make any strange posts over the next few days we will just put it down to you taking your meds.
since you can't go to work for the next few days, it gives you plenty of time to do some online car shopping.

explorerx4

richard, a lot of those 'somethings' can be taken care of now, if it turns out to be anything.
nothing like a nice convertible ride to take your mind off things, other than the wind, the temp and local aroma's(plenty of cows still here in ct).
if you don't own a convertible, i recommend buying one.

tidester

That refers to car sales and not health care, medicine or politics. Let's try a little harder to get back to the regularly scheduled program.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

stickguy

Spent the last week or so helping a distant relative (of a sort) car shop. Went through the full process, from narrowing down options (settling on a TSX), to pricing, tactics, etc.

But, it led to a well informed, very focused buyer.

Made some internet/email contacts for initial pricing, then she got a BJs link to see if that was worthwhile. Turns out to have been a very aggressive price, but the dealer was the next state over, and not particularly close or easy to get to.

So, she ended up going to the local guy with that quote (gotta love fixed pricing!), who agreed to match it (claiming to have never sold one that cheap, but first time for everything!)

Used the RWTIV board (thanks to Volvomax) for a realistic trade in value to verify she was getting a fair offer on her old car (she was).

So, as she promised, they met her price and she signed the paperwork. No drama, little time, not number shopping. Just a prepared buyer, and a dealer with a quick (if mini) deal and a unit moved before the month end.

She even had a $200 coupon from the dealer that they added at the end (or, subtracted I guess!) Made the deal even better.

Ended up getting 2010 TSX for ~$30 below invoice, with a fair market value for her trade. SHe is quite pleased.

Plus, the deal ended up being a good 1K less than what she was originally quoted (before I got involved, and she did more detailed research), so it was worth the effort.

jmonroe

I'm back!

Sore as all get out but otherwise OK.

I've been busy (old employer still trying to take advantage of their best consultant ) so I'm just getting caught up on things.

Glad to hear you're only sore. Take it easy.

Edit: oops, I didn't read to post 46212, so ignore this. Same goes for the other guys with events on the horizon.

jmonroe

jmonroe

Plus, the deal ended up being a good 1K less than what she was originally quoted (before I got involved,...

Is your back sore yet? :P

Thanks, just when we needed a sales tale.

jmonroe

cdnpinhead

(settling on a TSX)

Glad to see that she settled on a TSX, rather than settling for one -- I read it wrong the first time. Interesting story & yet more support for being an informed consumer (or at least having a friend who is).

I've been driving a TSX for the past 18 months, and it's been a pleasure. I did, however, settle for it (no RWD), but am pleased all the same. Many variables & a reasonable choice for me.

Hope she feels the same after a few months. Let us know.

stickguy

interesting part of the story, that I bet the salespeople can relate to.

The buyer had actually been researching for a long time (months maybe). Exhaustive amount of research, all over the internet, etc.

But, I think it became info overload. She basically had no idea what to do with all the "data" and opinions, and almost became paralyzed by it.

A good "auto buying consultant" really helps to cut through all the crap to lead the buyer through the maze. How's that for a business model?

Nail down the right choice, then it is a simple matter of basic shopping and negotiating techniqies, and bingo, another satisfied customer.

Unless of course they hate the car (like the BMW X3 guy). Then it is no refunds!

stickguy

the relating part.

Any salespeople (I bet Craig is one!) ever have the research maven that show up with 5 notebooks of printouts and spreadsheets, but has absolutly no idea what they really want or need, and even if they do, how the heck to go about actually getting it purchased?

verdugo

Just thought of something else...I won't find it too liberating after buying a 52 inch LCD TV, to sit in the dark, and wish I could watch it.

wow, here we go again.

Do they have Netflix? Or how about renting DVDs from your library? You just love to complain, don't you?

tidester

Do they have Netflix?

We were trying to get back on topic. Let's continue that pursuit.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

isellhondas

When a shopper arrives with a thick notebook jammed with printouts, everybody runs!

oldfarmer50

"...I would just hate to see this forum get torn apart by...nasty POLITICAL discussions..."

I agree, let's keep it limited to nasty PERSONAL discussions about crooked salespeople and lying customers like it was ment to be. :P

To get back on topic, I hear that Toyota is recalling 3.8 million vehicles because those killer floormats are running wild on the highways. (I blame the problem on the salesman for not showing the customer how to use them properly)

Kirstie_H

Yeah, a lot of people are talking about that in Brand problems swept under the rug. Wonder if it will affect sales?

verdugo

We were trying to get back on topic. Let's continue that pursuit

Believe it or not, I deleted the post. I was suprised to see it back.

OT, I'm in Poland right now and they have tons of cars that we don't have.

Most of the small Fiat ones are pretty ugly. On the other hand there are some very nice Fords.

oldfarmer50

"...a lot of people are talking about that...

Well, I was just being sarcastic, I mean, who doesn't know how to use floormats?

Then I remembered a time I took my Chrysler to the shop to diagnose a squeak that occurred every time I turned the wheel. I was going through all sorts of steering gear problems in my head when my mechanic showed me that the floormat had slid up against the steering column. Every time I turned the wheel it rubbed against the rubber backing of the mat and made a squeak. Wore a groove into the edge of the mat.

I had never been trained in the proper use of floormats.

michaellno

Wonder if it will affect sales?

Dunno, but there is a post in the Lexus IS "Prices Paid" forum from someone wondering if he can negotiate a lower price due to the recall.

lrguy44

Wonder if it will affect sales?

Never saw a recall since the Pinto affect sales at all.

oldfarmer50

"...Most of the small Fiat ones are pretty ugly..."

Could you rent a few and report back to us? I'd like to know what Chrysler will be selling in a few months.

Kirstie_H

Yeah, but this is a scary issue - I don't mean the recall itself, so much. I mean, I wonder if the issue behind the recall will scare people off. Many of the recalls over the past couple of decades have been fairly minor, or at least not of the proportion where people think their vehicle is likely to be responsible for the death of their family.

I hope it turns out to be bad floormat design rather than a mechanical flaw, honestly.

Hey, didn't the tire issue on the Exploder cause a decline in sales for that vehicle?

driver100

Excellent news report on the Lexus floor mats;
4 killed - firey crash (2nd story on news report)

I think this could happen in almost any car, and the report mentions this. Too bad the driver didn't think to turn the ignition off, or put the car in nutral.

fezo

You know what's weird about that news report? They name the two guys killed and show their pictures but the other two victims are just "his wife and child."

Man, I hope this doesn't end up where you have to have stickers all over the car to get you to read how to properly use floor mats. Your car interior will start looking like ladders do now with all sorts of DANGER! stickers all over.

Bad enough that every time I put a visor down there's a warning that I might get myself killed driving this car.

stickguy

it isn't a recall now anywya, right? Just an advisory? so IOW just a warning.

This at least will be a no cost, low effort recall if it becomes one. Just drive in, someone takes out your driver's floor mat, and you leave!

Can you imagine the stink Lexus owners will put up if they get dirty carpets after the mats are removed? that might be worse to them than an acceleration issue!

And look out for the first time a Lexus takes off like that after the mat is removed. If it does turn out to be a mechanical issue, that could bankrupt even Toyota.

stickguy

oh yeah, if I was looking for one of these right now, darned right I would be waving the report all over the showroom trying to get the price knocked down!

tjc78

You know whats bad too is that this is going to send out a panic to everyone with these vehicles. My Mother has an '09 Camry. I just called to talk to her about it and told her to make sure her mats were clipped onto the tabs in the carpet and if the remote chance her accelerator was to get stuck to put the car into neutral. That way she still has full braking and steering. I believe every car today has an electronic rev limiter anyway so the engine would be safe.

lrguy44

Hey, didn't the tire issue on the Exploder cause a decline in sales for that vehicle?

I forgot about the Exploder. I guess time heals all wounds. Actually, it was more devistating for Firestone. They almost did not survive.

lrguy44

I would be waving the report all over the showroom trying to get the price knocked down!

At this point all that would accomplish is improving the circulation in the showroom.

fezo

Don't forget the aerobic benefit for stickguy.....

wlbrown9

This brings back memories. I had a 1984 Pontiac Grand Prix back before the days of little clips to hold the floor mats in place. Wife complained about the throttle sticking. I drove it for a couple of days and it happened to me. Discovered that the floor mat wrinkled at the transiton from flat floor to upslope. That wrinkle at times was just right to catch the bottom of the accelerator and hang. Never a real dangerous event for that one. I immediately picked up some replacements and cured that problem. BUT I guess it could have ended a lot differently.

tallman1

A friend of mine bought a used Corolla and complained about the brakes not working very well. She took it back and the salesman pulled the folded mat down from under the brake pedal. Problem solved.

Those clips were a great idea. I remember rubber mats on rubber floors in my dad's old Ford F250. They used to slide all over the place.

houdini1

My daily driver is a Lexus LS 430. The floor mats, both winter and summer have these little spikes on the back and there is no way they could or would slide around. On the remote (impossible) chance that they did, they would not affect the accelerator.

What has happened to personal responsibility in this country when we don't have enough sense to even glance at our floor mats every now and then?

oldfarmer50

"...What has happened to personal responsibility in this country when we don't have enough sense to even glance at our floor mats..."

I told you, I never had any training in floor mats. I'm sorry, give a guy a break will ya'?

houdini1

Understandable. You're and old guy like me so I will give you a pass....this time. I think they are getting ready to bump us off so we will have to stick together.

murphydog

Driver -

I was reading Karl's weekly post - he reviewed this story, and took a stab and why turning the car off and/or shifting into neutral.

If I remember right the car was a loaner with "keyless go" To turn off the drive would have to know to hold the start/stop button for several seconds to turn it off.

As far as neutral - I think Karl speculated that shifting while the transmission was under load may have prevented it from actually going into neutral.

Either way a very sad story, I can't imagine the terror that must have built up in the car as they were racing along...

mcdawgg

All the newer (at least in the past 10 years) Toyotas have clips. The bottom line is if you follow the directions (GASP!), you will not have any problems. The directions say to use the clips, AND only use one mat (don't put one on top of another). No problems IF you follow these two simple rules.

jmonroe

The directions say to use the clips, AND only use one mat (don't put one on top of another). No problems IF you follow these two simple rules.

For the owner of the car this would work. However, post 46247 said the car was a loaner. If this is in fact the case, I'd say the dealer is in deep you know what.

jmonroe

houdini1

Yes, mine has the hooks also. I will probably get arrested for confessing this...but I took them out. My mats would not move even if Sasquatch was driving.

mcdawgg

True, in this case the DEALER was at fault, not Toyota. But for some reason, Toyota seems to be taking the hit for it.

To stay on topic - All salespeople should tell tell new owners to read the owner's manual and tell them (because how many people actually do read the manuals :sick: ) to use the hooks to secure their floormats and don't put a mat on top of a mat! Sorry for the poor sentence!

verdugo

Could you rent a few and report back to us? I'd like to know what Chrysler will be selling in a few months.

Sorry oldfarmer. We got a Nissan Qashqai. It's about the same size of the Nissan Rogue. It's not bad.

jb_turner

It is not the dealers fault... it is the owners fault. The owners needs to take responsibility to ensure their car is safe to drive especaily in reference to securing the mat and not putting anouter on top.

driver100

We got a Nissan Qashqai.

Verdugo, do you see many luxury cars in Poland? I was surprised by the number of luxury cars on the road in some very poor countries - such as in Estonia and St Petersburg, I would estimate about 20% of the cars are luxury brands.
Seems either you drive a luxury car or a beater car, and i guess that reflects a very small middle class - either you have money or not.
We should consider ourselves fortunate that most people can drive a fairly descent car, and we do have a fairly healthy (though shrinking ) middle class.

driver100

rwith "keyless go" To turn off the drive would have to know to hold the start/stop button for several seconds to turn it off.

That's an interesting point. I don't have keyless, but I do have a push-button, and I am not sure how I would stop it. I would try pressing it, but not sure if I would think that when suddenly going 120 mph.

Also, would be good to know if you could get it into nutral. I could at least do that in my car......it's a standard.

But most people wouldn't have the skill and ability to take these steps. This material should be printed up so people could react if this event does happen, and it could happen in almost any car.

My car has huge patches of velcro so I think it would be hard for a mat to move around.

verdugo

I'm in Gdansk in the North. I haven't seen that many luxury cars. A few BMWs (and not the big ones), a couple of MB, no Audis, or LR.

However, there are some luxury cars of course. I just haven't seen as many. Talking to co-workers here they say that Audi is associated with "Mafiosi" (sp?).

driver100

I haven't seen that many luxury cars

Thanks for the update. I guess I might not get an Audi next time then. (there's a sales story).

stickguy

Better get Michael out before there are no more satursns!

Just curious, but now that it has announced that Saturn will be kaput by this time next year, what is going to happen to their sales? WIll it be the same as POntiac?

I was thinking no, since Saturn is all stand alone stores, and still has enough of that unique braning (hey, some people still supposedly don't realize it is part of GM) to make it different.

at least a lot of pontiac dealers where combo stores.

oldfarmer50

"...We got a Nissan QASHQAI..."

That sounds like something my Polish in-laws would have for dinner.

I asked my wife who speaks a few words of Polish and as near as she could guess it means something like "fried fat". I hope that doesn't relate to it's crashworthyness. :surprise:

oldfarmer50

Was passing by the Manheim auction today and saw a lot of traffic going in since this is auction day. One carrier with 7 cars was unloading out by the road for some reason.

As I drove past I could see a very agitated man standing at the rear of the trailer It looked as if the first car to be unloaded had broken down as they had tried to back it off the carrier and was blocking the unloading of the other 6. The hood was up and the man was yelling and flailing his arms around. I can just imagine what he was saying.

I couldn't tell what kind of car it was but I will be sure to not buy anything silver for the next few weeks. :lemon:

michaellno

Better get Michael out before there are no more saturns!

I'm touched by your concern, but I'm not in the market for anything at the moment; even if I was, it probably wouldn't have been another Saturn. 4 in 7 years will be it.

Just curious, but now that it has announced that Saturn will be kaput by this time next year, what is going to happen to their sales? Will it be the same as Pontiac?

I expect to get letters from both Saturn corporate as well as my local dealer. I'll post the gist of the communication when I get them. I know that my local Saturn dealer also owns a number of other dealerships that sell different makes. Not sure that the Saturn store will be converted into something else or simply shut down.

I was thinking no, since Saturn is all stand alone stores, and still has enough of that unique branding (hey, some people still supposedly don't realize it is part of GM) to make it different.

Correct .. there are no Saturn dealerships that are 'dualed', meaning they sell another brand. One nice thing about the Saturn model was that they didn't want to saturate the market with too many dealerships. In Metro Denver, there were 4 Saturn dealerships total.

Not that I'm planning on selling or trading any of the fleet at the moment, but I've got to believe that the resale value of all my cars has just taken a major hit.

Oh, well. Que sera, sera.

mcdawgg

Normally that's true, but in this case it is the dealer's fault The guy had a rental or loaner car from the dealer.

To stay on topic, dealers should check their loaners.