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Car Brokers always charge for their services. Why should Grap be any different?
It all depends on the dealership or dealer group. Some individual dealerships will just give you a day or two of training, and some will put you on a week long training program, especially if it's a large dealer group that can afford a full time trainer.
However the training and attitude comes more from experience rather than training.
If a newbie starts at an old school dealership with old school ways, he'll pick up all the bad habits that GG witnessed....hounding, following customer arounfd without giving space, not giving straight answers etc... Once someone picks up those habits, and they actually result in some sales, it'll be hard to shake them off. A guy like that will go to another dealership and use the same bad habots on the customers there too. And it's hard to get a guy like this retrained. My old dealership I worked at had a guy like that, a real piece of work....yelling at customers, lying to them etc... He was the top guy the second month but was fired after for bringing too much heat.
The Honda dealer I started at gave me a couple days training, with my manager telling me how to apprach customers, and act towards them etc. I was told to be inquisitive, asking lots of questions, and not asking for the sale until I had all the answers to those questions. Which makes sense.
The Chrysler dealer I work at now is the same. The new guys have a strict process to follow, read process not script, and once again we do a lot of fact finding and then present vehicles that match what the customer is looking for.
However the Honda dealer I originally started at hired a training company to train staff with phoning customers and booking appointments. This training company had phone scripts that sounded so fake as if a customer would be talking to an automated phone system.
Management insisted that everyone get on the scripts, even succesful salesguys who have been there for years. It ticked off many staff and a lot of guys left.
The money the dealership was paying for this training was something crazy to the tune of about $6k - $10k per month.
One of the scripts was when calling customers who already bouight and asking for referrals.
It went something like this:
"How is your car blah blah blah...small talk. Now if you can think of 2 people you know that will be in the market for a vehicle next, who would they be?"
Customer would then say so and so
Then you'd ask inquisitive questions about them. If the customer starts getting ticked off, you'd say "it's ok, that's not why I called. I called to set up your next service appointment" After you'd get right back onto hammering for info like can I have their name and number, and if the customer gets ticked off again, you'd go back to the "That's not why I called" line. :mad:
Not very customer friendly lines.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Thanks for keeping a link to Mack for all of us. I will miss him and his stories. He was a good friend to us. Take care, all.
-Steve
Our store is very professional and we run a tight ship. We are family owned and we maintain what we call a Country Club style. We don't wear ties but we dress nicely. We don't have an "up" system and we don't use scripts.
We train our new salespeople for a week or so before we turn them loose and training is ongoing. We are family owned by the same family who opened this place 28 years ago.
Much of our business comes from repeat and referral customers.
I think you would lose about 10 customers for every 1 that you would get with that method. I would never give a friends name, who might be called....an enemies name maybe.
I guess the good thing is if you have seen that kind of dealer in action, you appreciate where you are now.
**At least we have one post for today :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Car shaped bed? I think so, although not yet.
Because of daddy's fascination with everything automotive, I did give my son the middle name Aston. :shades:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
My wife wouldn't go for it, but she likes the name Aston so we kept it for the middle name.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
if it is a girl, how about Porsche Carrera?
Here's some rehashed sales stories...not sure if I told them a few years ago, but they have to do with superstition when buying a vehicle:
A guy came in and we eventurally do a deal on a new Civic. He asks to see the VIN number. He didn't like the VIN of the car he did a deal on so he asks to show him all other available VINs for the model of Civic he bought. He picks one with "lucky numbers". He then picks a license plate (here in BC plates/tags are available on the spot) with "lucky numbers".
He goes home with his new "lucky" car that day but calls me 30 minutes later saying we sold him a bad car. He said his bumper was falling off. He comes back, but his bumper wasn't falling off. It was just a bumper clip that was loose causing part of the bumper to stick out a few inches. I personally think he bumped it somewhere and made it pop out. Nevertheless he wants his money back, or to exchange the car. Nocando says the Sales Manager. We tell him to come back into service when they're open. After arguing for about 30 minutes he reluctantly agrees. The car ends up being fixed, and everything is good, until he calls me a couple years later saying he totalled it in an accident. So much for "lucky VIN" and "lucky plates".
Another customer makes a deal on a loaded new V6 Accord on a busy sale weekend. The Accords were kept at an offsite compound about 5 minutes away from our showroom because there was no room on the lot. He asks to go and see the exact cars we have in stock so he can pick a "lucky one" that has good vibes. We had about 2 or 3 in stock. We go to the compoud and he sits in all 3. He feels good vibes in only one of them. But he needs to sit in it longer to make sure. About 30 minutes later we return to the dealership, and he gives me a deposit on the one that felt good. It turns out while we were gone someone else bought that "good feeling" unit. So my customer is a bit upset but we get in and go back to the compound so he can sit in the other two and pick a lucky one. Another 15-20 minutes goes by and he picks one that feels good to him (keep in mind all three were identical models with identical options and colors). We go back and do a deal on the one that felt good. Luckily it wasn't sold. Unluckily for him, within about 4 months he started having tranny issues. He got rid of it shortly after.
Moral of the story....Don't be too picky with some things in life otherwise it may turn out to be an unlucky situation in the end..
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
1 out of 2200 ain't too bad
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
He is a doll!
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
if it is a girl, how about Porsche Carrera? "
Wife's cousin has an Enzo and a Porsche.
Second, the real moral of your story is - new Hondas can have tranny problems and they are not indestructible unlike Toyota which is the epitome of engineering and reliability. Ho,ho,,do I smell a retaliation from Honda salesfolks and hopefully stir up both Honda/Toyota folks into venting some sales stories regarding their brands.
And must say,your posts are uhm,uhm,very interesting stories!!
Great stories boom, and cute baby too.
Never even thought of magic numbers or having superstitions about guying a car.
I really learned something today........like there's a lot of strange people out there.
Hopefully, most of your customers are normal, like me
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
My friend is looking at the bill for her rental car, and decides last night is the time to buy. I've got research done on (in order)....
-an '07 Hyundai Sonata lease buyout
-a Hyundai Tuscon
-a Toyota Camry LE
-a Nissan Altima
We go over what it is she really wants...what's important to her. Those are safety and the fact she wants to sit up higher. And, she likes the color silver.
"OK....let's forget about the other cars. You're leaning towards the CR-V, as it hits all of what you want.. Let's go drive one". We do. She likes it.
"Feel good about this vehicle? Like driving it?"
"Yes, I do. Do you like your Accord (I have an Accord waiting in the wings that my son will get upon graduation)?"
"Yes, I like it a lot. Hondas have a great reputation and will serve you for a very long time with little trouble."
That ruled out all of the other mini-SUVs on the market from other brands.
I had prepared for this eventuality. So, I had my research done.
As all of you noted, she needed some nudging. Factors were safety and the fact she wanted to sit up higher (which none of the sales people we talked to, picked up on). A lot more listening, and a lot less talking, would have made them aware of those factors.
She was specifically interested in an '09 since it has $500 in factory cash, and the '10s are on the lot. So, I think the Honda store would want to move the '09s.
We're at my preferred Honda store. I didn't know that she'd been there a few weeks ago, looking around. Apparently, one of the sales people approached her and although she wasn't quite ready to buy yet, handed her his card. He was off last night. But, I also looked at the business card he gave her, and it happened to be the person (Matt) who sold me the Accord. Great sales person...knowledgeable and professional. We showed his card to the sales person. He glances at it.
Anyway, after the test drive our current sales person pre-closes. "You want this CR-V?"
My friend..."well, this one's blue. I want silver."
"I know we've only got one other '09 left. Let's see what color it is and if it's an LX."
We meander around the store. 5 minutes later, he comes back and says..."you're in luck. The other one we have left is in the back lot. It's an LX auto and is silver."
"OK, let's go look at it."
He says he can't find the keys to it. And, that it's not been PDI'd yet. Plus, it's getting dark, so let's just strike a deal and then go look at it.
He mentions, in order....
-lot boy who knows where the keys are, is off for the evening
-there's some sort of vault where the keys might be, but he can't get into the vault
-that his day off is tomorrow, and wants to nail down the deal tonight
"Is Matt here tomorrow? (my Accord sales person). She talked to him first."
"You did? I didn't know that."
"She showed you his card when we first walked in, and you said he was off for the evening. You don't remember that?"
"Oh, yeah....I thought you didn't like him?"
"When did she say that?"
He mumbles a bit and asks us to wait a few minutes to see if he can find the keys. He comes back a couple of minutes later with the missing keys and head to the back lot. There's good reason he didn't want us to see the sliver CR-V. It was all full of bird droppings....not very sightly. He assures us that they can clean it up.
I tell my friend, that it just needs a thorough wash and wax, and that it will indeed look good. If not, she can reject delivery of it. If the bird poo hadn't been sitting on the CR-V too long, there should be no issues with getting it spotless. But, we won't know that until it gets cleaned up. The sales person said he'd personally oversee it's preparation and clean up.
"I thought you were off tomorrow?"
"Why don't you take it home tonight, and bring it back for a clean up?"
"Ummm.....no! You said it still needs PDI, too. Plus, we don't even know if we can strike a deal, yet."
"Let's go run the numbers."
If this deal is going to go down, it's not going to happen until tomorrow, anyway. She can't take delivery until the PDI is done, and some serious wash and wax is done to it. A rush job won't suffice. I resist doing a deal until all this can transpire. But, I've already invested too much of my time, and energy.
"Let's do the numbers."
I'm not going to get into a grinding session on this deal, as I've done that already on another friend's Altima. And, I'm tired of dealing with my friend's journey on her choice. I committed to help. But, not to this degree.
Time for a pause.......
One of my better deals was back abotu 10 years or so (whenever the Jetta was the boxy style and doing a MMC I think). Or maybe when they change from the old style to newer style mid-year?
anyway, a friend from work had her old car die, and decided whe wanted a Jetta. So i did what legwork you could at the time (mostly pre internet), and came up with a target price. Must have been about invoice.
went to dealer, and she liked it. Took a test drive in the salesdudes car. Maybe 5K on it, and all pigged out. And man, they wanted to sell us that one bad! Made a pretty good offer as it was a demo (below invoice).
So, I had the bright idea to counter with "how about the same price on the indentical brand new one?" That, they did not like. Until I told friend to get up, and let's go.
Not sure who had a more pianed look on their face. The dealer people watching their sale head out the door, or my friend who was seeing her spiffy new Jetta disappear.
Can't remember if we made it out the door or not before the "OK, we'll do the deal if you do it right now" came from them, but I know we never made it to the car)
I rarely go to the dealer myself now. Most of my help is lng distance, so I do leg work and pricing estimates, but make the buyer do the face to face part!.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My son didn't sleep through the night until he was about15 months old. Tubes in the ears fixed that problem.
Car shaped bed? I think so, although not yet.
Because of daddy's fascination with everything automotive, I did give my son the middle name Aston.
My son had a car shaped bed, as well as a gray market BMW child seat and Baby Racer ride-on car. At 15 his dream car is a Vantage.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
You talking about his "friend" or the salesman?
I was a bit disappointed in the salesman's "Can't find the keys." excuse. Just not very original these days with the internet and all. Maybe something like, "The lot boy parked the car over a pit of deadly venomous snakes, so we'll have to wait for the Orkin Man to come out and spray tomorrow to look at it."
As per the stories, yes...there are strange folks out there...but whatever turns their crank right?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Regarding the superstitious buyers, I had a couple buy a Lexus from me a few years ago. They were a very nice Indian couple & apparently very religious. When they showed up to pick up the car, they brought a bag of goodies containing prayer cards, a coconut, turmeric (used to make the "bindi" on an Indians forehead) & a few holy books. They proceeded to hang the prayer cards from the rear view mirror & placed a few under the floormats, used the Turmeric to write symbols on the front bumper & read out of the Holy book in (I guess) Hindu. They then placed the Coconut on the ground in front of the passenger front tire & ran over it. I guess it was supposed to break, but it didn't. The husband cracked it open on the pavement & ran around the car praying & spritzing the car with the coconut water.
One of the more interesting deliveries I ever had to do.
.....can't find the keys to it...
.....it's not been PDI'd ye.....
.....Plus, it's getting dark, so let's just strike a deal and then go look at it. .....
-lot boy who knows where the keys are, is off for the evening
-there's some sort of vault where the keys might be, but he can't get into the vault
-that his day off is tomorrow, and wants to nail down the deal tonight
Why some sales people say some things that will just backfire at them later IU could never understand? So he didn't have access to it, but he would after the deal was done? Take it home but it's not PDI'd yet? He must have been a newbie.
Like you said, the real reason he didn't want to show you the vehicle was because it was dirty. Dirty vehicles generally don't show very well and are harder to sell. It's hard to get a customer excited on a dirty vehicle covered in bird poop, even when new, because during negotiations, the customer is thinking about that specific dirty vehicle. If it's a unit that's shiny and smelling new and sitting in the showroom, it evokes a different feeling and a customer is more willing to buy it, and in many cases pay more for it (as in negotiate less of a discount). It's especially true of customers who's motivations are mostly emotional rather than rational. I've seen it happen many times.
Therefore one of the main rules is never show a dirty, or in winter time, cold vehicle.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
With all due respect to Kirstie, I think this is a female thing. The one's I've known will have no particular goal in mind when they're shopping for anything. Maybe find a blouse, a sweater, perhaps a purse or a pair of shoes....no particular goal in mind when heading to the stores.
Personally, if I'm shopping for something, be it a car, or a coat, I know pretty much what it is I'm looking for. For example, I'm not going to buy a pair of shoes, if what I'm looking for is a coat.
boom, what puzzled me the most at the Honda store with the sales person last evening, was what I considered a pretty blatant attempt to edge the other salesperson out of his cut of a deal after we asked for him at the outset by showing him the sales person's card.
I was thinking he may have reported to his manager that we had asked for the original sales person, but he was off. And, that we didn't like the first sales person to begin with, which was untrue. Thus, he could keep the entire deal to himself.
Does this happen often? Or, am I misreading this?
In looking at a vehicle on a cold winter night, the lot guy pulled it around and must have warmed it up and had the heated seats set on broil. Nice touch for showing off the feature, although I hate heated seats!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
So what do you say then? " I got a car that fits you needs, except it's covered in dung. Would you like to come back in an hour and it will be ready for viewing." :confuse:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I was thinking he may have reported to his manager that we had asked for the original sales person, but he was off. And, that we didn't like the first sales person to begin with, which was untrue. Thus, he could keep the entire deal to himself.
Does this happen often? Or, am I misreading this?
It happens sometimes, more so in bigger dealerships with higher traffic when not all salespeople can watch all customers that come in. This is called "skating" in the car biz.
If your customer comes back and asks for you, but the attending salesperson doesn't give you a courtesy call about it, and closes the deal without telling you so to keep it all for himself, that makes him a skater. Nothing worse than having a reputation like that in a dealership, and you won't last very long at any particular store by being a skater.
What you should do is call the original salesperson you wanted to deal with and set up an appointment with him, or if you already did the deal, call him directly and tell him you asked for him upon arrival and you were hoping he'll get half of this deal too and that you appreciate his help too. After that let the salespeople work it out amongst themselves.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Funny you mention that. There's a very large Toyota dealership just north of Cincinnati that has all of their cars in an covered dealership. They've got probably 50-75 cars on display, all clean and shiny in a nice warm dealership.
They need to be rotated around or not parked under lamp posts, but sometimes it's impossible if there's no room for storage anywhere else.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I think it would be nice if you called the salesman on the card and tried to get a price on the phone at this time. He might give you a good deal because it is a sale he might have missed. Also, you seem like serious buyers if the price is right.
I think it would be a good thing if he knew he was being scooped by a fellow salesperson.
It would be nice if she got a good deal, likes the car, and you can get on with your life....though the story is like a thrilling adventure, I almost hope it never ends.
Maybe you and Miss Hard to Please will drive off into the sunset in a new CRV
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Great. You just gave gg a heart attack...
With all the tap dancing the salesman did not to show the car he could have run it through the car wash down the street and picket up GG and friend up in front of the store for the test drive. :confuse: Some people work hard at avoiding work.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Oh, for sure it is. Men shop like the police are chasing them, get in get out. Women make the buying process much more fullfilling, bonding, sharing AND LONGER.
Women are multi-taskers who will study an item's endless possibilities. A man will pick up a hammer and see it pounding nails. A woman will invision countless uses for it (including hitting the man who is impatiently tapping his toe.).
This woman is probably having a wonderful time with you GG. The car buying it only part of it.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I used to have a friend whose surname was Porsche, We kept looking for a girl named Porsche to set up with him. Could you imagine someone named Porsche Porsche? :P
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Hi, this is Porche Porche.
Gesundheit!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
fezo....I'll either have a heart attack, or be arrested for abuse of a car antenna.
driver....it did end....finally!
We got to the point where the sales person wanted to run the numbers. After viewing the bird doo filled car, my friend wasn't so enamored with it (as driver pointed out). After opening the CR-V. the interior was pristine. That alleviated some of her reluctance. I notice there were some very nice rubber mats and a hatch lining. These were in addition to the included carpet floor mats. I look at the MSRP sticker and rubber mats weren't listed on an addendum sticker and make a mental note of it. The sales person starts it up. The odo had 7 miles on it, so this vehicle hadn't even been test driven by anyone. We do a very quick test drive as the sales person reminds us that they still needed to clean it up and do a PDI. Everything seemed in order. The sales person wanted to close the deal (as did I).
She was assured that the car would look sparkling new once their prep dept got hold of it.
Getting back into the Honda store, the sales person pulls out the purchase contract, takes down my friend's essential information, and asks her for her offer. OK, now we're getting somewhere.
I had my trusty spread sheet ready to go. The offer was invoice, minus $500 factory to dealer cash, and then adding in another $200 for them to show a profit and cover the doc fees. Still, this came in at $20,200, which was $200 more than her goal. I had separate lines figuring TTL. It's an '09 leftover, so I figured this was a very doable number. I'm not negotiating.
I presented the spread sheet and mention...."this is a one time offer. Our offer includes everything, as you can see. If you can do it, you've just sold the CR-V. If not, we thank you for your time, and we'll move on."
Since his offer sheet didn't include TTL, he asked if he could take it to his SM. "Sure, by all means."
The salesman staples the spreadsheet to the store's offer sheet. He asks my friend to sign it. She and I both worked on the spread sheet. She knew exactly what the offer was going to be. She starts to hesitate. Before a word comes out of her mouth, I ask for the store's offer sheet back and write....."contingent upon final inspection and satisfactory presentation of the referenced vehicle" and push it towards her. She finally signs it.
Off to the SM our salesman goes. While he's gone, she starts getting nervous. I cut her off at the pass...."you need a car. You like this car....right down to the color. You're spending $30/day renting a car. The longer you wait, the more it's costing you. I don't know that there's a car in the city, that remotely might interest you, that we haven't driven. You chose this one."
Out comes the SM. He looks vaguely familiar, but I can't place him.
"Hi Ms BB.....Mr GG we've met before. You're friends with Mr D (the store's owner). I used to be at his Toyota store as a sales person." We shake hands.
"Well, I haven't seen Mr D in quite some time, as he retired to Florida, but I stay in touch with his daughter on occasion."
He shares the story of how he went from the Toyota store to the Honda store, interesting but not what we're there for.
He looks at both of us, my friend and I, and asks.."who's really buying this CR-V, you or her?"
"I came up with the price. It will be her vehicle and she's paying for it."
"Then why don't I just talk to her?"
"Nothing's stopping you. Go ahead."
My friend then repeats what I said, "he's the person who's working the deal. I'm writing the check."
SM sits down and asks me how I came to the number. I explain it to him....it's a leftover, dealer cash, OTD price, including everything. I also explain to him it's a "yes or no" proposition. If it's "no", we'll shake hands and remain friendly.
He goes on to say that my offer didn't include the dealer options of rubber mats, mud guards, and some other miscellaneous things that cost an additional $600 that comes with ALL of their new cars.
Well, the CR-V we looked at doesn't have mud guards, nor any of the other stuff, but had the rubber mats in it.
"So, the answer is that you can't do this deal. Thanks, appreciate everyone's time. We'll keep shopping."
"Wait.....that's it? Our sales person spent all this time with you, and that's it? You're going to shop us?"
I chuckle a bit and reply...."believe me, whatever time your sales person has invested in this, you can multiply that 10X and still not come up with the amount of time I've got invested. We're right here, right now, ready to buy. So, you can or can't do this deal?"
"Would you cheat your friend, Mr D?"
This irks me more than a little bit......"What? Cheat? Cheat how? We've made you an offer, you can either accept it, or decline it. That's cheating how, again? I've brought you a potential customer. It's up to you to make her a real customer. Look, if that's the way you're thinking, again thank you. We'll move on."
We get up to leave.
Sensing I'm irritated, he asks if we'll give him one minute to check his figures in his office. I'm not inclined to do so, but this time around, my friend asks me to see what he has to say.
He comes back and asks the sales person if the dealer pack items are on the CR-V. They're not, with the exception of the rubber mats and rear rubber tray.
I interject that the mats and tray were already in the CR-V and assumed it was a courtesy of the store to include them since there was no addendum sticker showing them.
"You're going to buy this right now?"
"If you accept our offer we are. yes."
The SM goes back and forth to his office a couple of times, summoning the sales person to give him this or that detail. Sales person asks if we can add another $100 for the mats. I stand up to leave, once again. Seeing this, the SM comes out. finally turns to my friend, says he can't believe he's authorizing this deal, extends his hand, and says...."congratulations, you're the proud owner of a new CR-V and you're getting a helluva deal."
F&I goes smoothly. He does the requisite "extended warranty" pitch, as well as the option of "mop & glo". We decline both. My numbers were dead on correct.
We do the final inspection yesterday, and the CR-V now looks like it just rolled off the factory floor.
She's happy....and owes me at least a couple of ounces of Woodford Reserve. I'm just glad this is done.
Porsche Porsche - well, there's a woman up where I grew up whose name is (voluntarily now - she married the guy) - Allsion Alison.
With all due respect to Kirstie, I think this is a female thing. The one's I've known will have no particular goal in mind when they're shopping for anything. Maybe find a blouse, a sweater, perhaps a purse or a pair of shoes....no particular goal in mind when heading to the stores.
Ha ha... you've picked the wrong female and the wrong thing. When I go shopping for ANYTHING, my main goal upon entering the store is to leave as quickly as possible.
When I bought my last car, I spent a total of 15 minutes (including the test drive) agonizing over which car to purchase once I reached the lot.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I took a vacation to Mexico at one of those "touristy" spots in the Caribbean
Mexico is not in the Caribbean :P
The place was huge enough room for the entire inventory of our Land Rover store times two. It would have made a great dealership but negotiations broke down with Rover on where to put the new point and we never did open the second location.
In retrospect of what has happened to the car business probably a good thing.