Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,237
    Scott....I'm still thinking that there isn't much benefit to sell now. You've got the tax liability (right?). That pretty much washes out the overage mileage at the end of the lease. Plus, you'd be extending your payments on a used vehicle for an additional 20 months (given you have 19 more lease payments to make and your stated 48 month term).

    I just can't see a significant financial benefit on the deal you're proposing. Maybe a little bit, but you'll be paying a higher interest rate on the purchase of a used car.

    I still say you complete the lease on the Ody. Turn it in. Try to limit the mileage (as you say, you won't be driving much this winter). Start all over again when the lease is up. This time, on a purchase.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • wlbrown9wlbrown9 Member Posts: 867
    I was not able to read all the fine print on the ad, but the VW ad I watched last night was showing $299/month for 36 months. Saw if a couple of time before I noticed the $3299 or so DUE at closing. Just about another $92 a month up front so the effective payment is roughly $391 (does not include fees, taxes, etc of course).

    No wonder I stay away from leases. Misleading and BS IMHO.

    bill
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    my dealer is offering to buy it back for $25K. $433 shy of my payoff. I can walk away from this lease early for $433. this term was only 36 months. My payment is $421
    on this 08 EX-L with Rear DVD

    I can put 10K more into this Odyssey and give it back and start all over again, financing a car for at least 48 months, or I can buy a nice 12K car, pay it off in nearly the same amount of time, and be done until my monthly expenditures drop way down (kids out of daycare).
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    ALL leases are structured this way. It is neither misleading or BS since it was disclosed on the ad you were reading.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    I just can't see a significant financial benefit on the deal you're proposing.

    I agree with GG. I think it sounds good in theory not to have a lease hanging over your head, and you can buy a used car and make lower payments....but the reality is you lose money on the trade because you will be paying out additional tax money, you are imagining that you can get a used car which will be more reliable than your current car.

    IMHO you are better off with GGs plan....ride out the rest of the lease, then decide. If you are over on mileage and the car runs well you might be better off buying your Ody....at least you will know it was looked after.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,430
    no more misleading than the Sunday screamer ads... "BRAND NEW 2009 MOOMOBILE XL DELUXE $9995* "

    *with $3,500 cash or trade, and $500 loyalty, $500 college grad, $500 active military credits.

    Gotta love advertising. As long as it gets people into the dealerships.

    As for the leases, as has been said before people are monthly payment shoppers so how great do some of those advertised leases sound? Also, most customers don't realize how bad it is to put a lot of money down on a lease.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    financing a car for at least 48 months, or I can buy a nice 12K car, pay it off in nearly the same amount of time,

    I just don't think it is as simple as it sounds. You can pay now, or you can pay more later.
    My opinion is that it doesn't cost that much more to drive a new car than a used one, unless you are extremely lucky with the used car you buy.

    That $12k used car will probably have 50k to 80k miles on it, so the best half of it's life will be over. It will be reaching the point of needing many repairs. You might save a few thousand dollars a year driving the used car....or you could end up with one repair after the other.

    If you do go used, the best chance is a one or two year old used car....most of the depreciation has come off, but the best part of the cars life hasn't been used up.

    If you can get out of your lease for $433 then you should probably do that for your own peace of mind. I don't think you stated that before. I'd be surprised if the dealer will actually do that....doesn't sound profitable enough for them. :confuse:

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,237
    Scott....I'm with everyone else here. If it's your dealer making you this offer, then there's something else here that he's trying to make money on. The dealer's going to have to make $1,500-$2,000 on your Ody. That means, he's going to have to price it very close to a new one, which won't fly (especially if you have higher miles on it).

    I'm guessing the dealer will only do this if you buy something else from them? Perhaps a used car worth maybe $8-9K, but selling it to you for $12K?

    Somebody, somewhere has to make some money. It doesn't sound like they are doing it by taking back your Ody with just a $433 out of pocket on your end, without some other deal that nets them a profit.

    Even if you do find the elusive "cream puff" of a used car (where were you several months ago when I was selling an absolute cream puff Merc GM?), it will take 48 months to get your payment to that $300/mo range). You note that you're putting lots of miles on your vehicle. That means you're going to be faced with some higher maintenance costs, on top of your payment.

    I'm trying to see how this is beneficial on your end. I just can't.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • canadiantoyotacanadiantoyota Member Posts: 148
    To all of the salespeople who participate in this forum.....

    I have just read an article (in the Globe and Mail) which states that car sales have slumped in September. This is due to the cash for clunkers program having pulled sales from September into August.

    Is there any traffic? Sales? How are things going?

    Just curious....
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Scott....I'm with everyone else here. If it's your dealer making you this offer, then there's something else here that he's trying to make money on. The dealer's going to have to make $1,500-$2,000 on your Ody. That means, he's going to have to price it very close to a new one, which won't fly (especially if you have higher miles on it).

    I agree that he should proably keep the Ody but there is another possibility. Honda/Honda Finance may have some funny thing going with lease forgiveness if someone buys/leases a new, hell maybe even CPO honda, and has a honda lease they are getting out of.

    Earlier this week I had someone who called us because his Acura dealer called him saying he could get him out of his MDX lease 11 months early and into a new MDX for the same lease payment and only XXX amount out of pocket. He called us cause he doesn't want a MDX but wants an XC90. I looked everything over and told him no way can I do that. Your are at least 4,000 in the hole on your lease, not to mention you have 1,000-1,500 worth of body work and the MDX is a funny looking color, and the XC90 leases higher.

    I told him there must be some kind of owner loyalty or lease forgiveness program to make it work or there is something the other dealer isn't telling you cause the math doesn't work straight out on just the merits of your trade.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,206
    well, totally anecdotal, but I stopped at an Acura dealer at lunch time today. I was the only customer in or near the place. Went next door to the chevy store (this was a 1 dealer automall arrangement), and I think their might have been 1 other person in the store that didn't work there.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,570
    "...Saabs for 10,000 dollars or more off MSRP..."

    Ahhh, now I understand. When you calculate from the actual selling price it doesn't seem quite so bad. Still, a $26,000 car losing $13,040 in value in 3 years is scary.

    I guess, since I never get rid of a car until it's begging to die I never really looked at how fast they lose value. :lemon:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 271,685
    If you can get out of it for $433, then do it...

    Assuming this isn't tied to you buying a car from them... If it is, better make darn sure you have a good deal on that end, as well...

    Echoing the other comment.... Sometimes Honda Finance will sell a leased car to a dealer for less than the payoff... especially, if they think they are looking at a loss in the near future...

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  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    there is no deal I have to make with them, $433 and done. I do have some issues
    buying used. I would by lying to say I wasn't concerned with the possibility of
    maintenance costs. the residual on my Ody is around 17k and change, probably will have close to 50K on it. out of warranty as well. I am in the same boat either way really. $2400 out of mileage may be cheaper than potential repairs.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Scott,
    I'm glad that you can get out of the lease for $433, but it is difficult for me to wrap my brain around that picture. With the miles and all, I can't imagine how the dealer is going to take your problem off your hands and make money on it. If you decide to turn in the keys, I would be sure to get a full release of my obligation in writing---and read it carefully.

    As for buying used, I have done it several times. I buy a one year old car with no more than 10k miles on it. This gives you two years of factory warranty and about 5k in saved mileage. You can get a pretty good deal and have a fairly new car.

    If the $433 deal doesn't work out for you, I would listen to graphicguy and driver. They always give good advice, and they are honest guys. Good luck to you. It's been a hard lesson for you to learn, but we have all been there at some point in our lives.

    Richard
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,066
    here is hoping for a great fall season.
    my convertible isn't coming out of the garage until next year, but i still plenty of them out ther with the top down.
    my fusion has a moonroof. so i still get some sunshine on my head if i need it. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yeah, the Celica is a year round car. The biggest break it gets is living in the garage when not in use in the winter.

    Another nice one today.

    It gets really nice when you hit a decent day one the leaves start falling. Having them fall right into the car is pretty neat. I could really like fall if it didn't mean winter was next....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,570
    I drive past the local Manheim Auction location several times a day so I've gotten used to seeing car carriers going by with a variety of used vehicles on board. This week I saw a few unusual shipments.

    One afternoon I saw a carrier with two cars on board. One was a nothing special older domestic but the second was a newer Volvo with the entire side smashed in. It looked as if someone had dragged the driver's side along a wall and tore up the sheet metal for the whole length of the car.

    Do they Auction off such cars?

    The second shipment was two near identical pick-ups. On the back of one was written "CLUNKER". I didn't see that carrier pull into Manheim but it makes you wonder what may end up on some buy here pay here lot.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,430
    On the back of one was written "CLUNKER". I didn't see that carrier pull into Manheim but it makes you wonder what may end up on some buy here pay here lot.

    I believe all the clunker cars have to have the engines destroyed and then go to scrap lots.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,237
    Scott.....if you want out of the Ody, have at it. Sounds like your mind is made up.

    Just a quick gander at trade values, and just using Edmunds (which can be high at times), trade is worth ~$23,500. Sell price would be right around $26K.

    So, the dealer is overallowing on your Ody on the purchase side. And, after shining it up, doing an inspection, not making much (if any) money when they resell it.

    Doesn't make much sense to me, but it they're willing and you want to do it, go ahead.

    Was there a large down payment (cap cost reduction) you made? You'll lose that, too.

    I don't lease for the same reasons you say you won't, again. I turn cars over too quickly (haven't recently, though). Breaking a lease is a costly endeavor.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    no, first and docs, about $600. I am 8k over on mileage, and only going up.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    There are salvage/junk auctions too. Some of those clunker cars will go there.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,629
    The stipulation for the C4C program was that the clunkers would be scrapped. So none of those clunkers are supposed to be sold unless for scrap metal. One of the reasons for the program was to take gas guzzlers off the road not swap owners.

    Hi Tony

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Well, sorts...

    It requires that the engine and transmission get scrapped. The rest of the vehicle is fair game. That's a whole lot of parts. On the right vehicle a clunker could be very profitable.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    Just read an interesting little article. It says GM is going to try a lot harder to pay it's suppliers on time (still late but better than before).
    Seems that other customers such as BMW (the company mentioned in the article) got the latest technology first, because suppliers would withold it from GM and Chrysler due to their slow payments.

    Although I owned many GMs in the past I haven't considered one lately because I didn't want to buy a car put together with parts from the lowest bidders. But, this is another reason that confirms my original thoughts.

    It also confirms my own thoughts on business. I always pay suppliers on time to build a solid trusting relationship. Most MBAs or business people tell me it is crazy, you should use other peoples money for as long as possible. But, I am offered supplies first and become a preferred customer.......because I actually pay on time.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    I didn't want to buy a car put together with parts from the lowest bidders.

    Most parts on most machines are made by the lowest bidder. The auto industry as a whole is notorious for putting pressure on all suppliers.
    I remember back in the day at flight school at Pensacola we spent time on ejection seat training. At the end of the module, the instructor made sure we knew that the seat in any aircraft was made by the lowest bidder. That is when I knew I would never jump out of a perfectly good airplane.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yes, that is what salvage auctions are. The car must be scrapped but the salvage yard has 180 days to salvage everything but the engine from the car.

    Read the rule at http://www.cars.gov/files/official-information/rule.pdf

    CTRL+F for auction and see how many times salvage auction is reported.

    Even Mannheim is mentioned a couple of times.

    From page 22-23

    With these points in mind, the agency consulted with representatives of the
    salvage auction industry. The agency believes it is practicable to provide for the
    participation of salvage auctions in the transfer of trade-in vehicles to disposal facilities
    under the CARS program, in order to broaden the avenues of disposal available to
    dealers. Therefore, salvage auctions may receive a CARS trade-in vehicle, provided that,
    as a condition of participation, these entities agree to limit their auction sales of CARS

    23
    trade-in vehicles to the disposal facilities described above that appear on the agency’s list.
    We believe that including listed disposal facilities, and requiring salvage auctions to sell
    at auction the scrap trade-in vehicles only to approved disposal facilities strikes the
    appropriate balance between program and environmental accountability, on the one hand,
    and geographic distribution and dealer access, on the other.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,629
    I didn't want to buy a car put together with parts from the lowest bidders.

    You must walk a lot because I don't know any company that buys from a higher bidder (unless its a favor for a friend).

    Hi Tony

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Since my tax dollars made the C4C possible, I would like to have my percentage of the profits from the scrap metal sales! :mad:

    Richard
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    You must walk a lot because I don't know any company that buys from a higher bidder

    Some companies have certain standards, and they might not compromise just to get the lowest price possible. Not buying from the lowest bidder is not the same as only buying from the highest bidder. It might mean getting the best possible part made to the best possible standards....at that particular price. That's the main thing....what standards are you willing to compromise to get the price really cheap....and a company with no R&D money and is losing money isn't going to have very high of standards.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,357
    I think that is a big reason why Hyundai depreciation looks so bad. They calculate the depreciation off of msrp but the actual selling price is much lower.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    Since my tax dollars made the C4C possible, I would like to have my percentage of the profits from the scrap metal sales!

    A good point, but that is the American way....make a buck however you can.

    I got into trouble with 80% of the audience when I suggested your hard earned tax dollars should go mostly to the C4C purchaser since that was the intention of the plan (bring cost down so more cars could sell), but most think it is fair that the dealer take a giant share of your tax dollars right off the top.

    Do you really care if the dealer or the scrap yard makes money off your tax dollars :confuse: At least you are spreading it around a little more.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,570
    "...put together with parts from the lowest bidder..."

    Don't ever get on the Space Shuttle then. :P

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    That is when I knew I would never jump out of a perfectly good airplane.

    Damn, how did this happen? We actually agree on something. :P

    When I was in the Navy (enlisted man) I was an Airdale and was lucky enough to be on a flight crew for about 2 years. Flew so much as a crew member of a transport squadron I was actually tired of it before I was discharged after serving 3 years. Anyway, I and anyone that was part of a flight crew had the opportunity to sign up for classes then jump out of a plane the following weekend. I was about to sign up once but I couldn’t get the words of one of my plane commanders out of my head:

    “Unless you’re a paratrooper and that’s why you signed up, why would anyone want to jump out of a plane that still works? I hope I don’t have anyone on my crew that thinks like that. I’m trying like hell to make sure it stays up.” :confuse:

    I never did take those classes.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    Don't ever get on the Space Shuttle then.

    And we know what happened to a few of those rockets. And, don't worry, I won't get on one of them and that is one reason.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    , why would anyone want to jump out of a plane that still works?

    I might try it on my 98th birthday, not too much to lose by then. :shades:

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,629
    It might mean getting the best possible part made to the best possible standards

    Actually no company tries to get the best possible standards. What companies do is set minimal standards for what they want and usually go to the supplier who can deliver the needed amount at the needed time for the least amount of money.

    In other words the lowest bidder.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Some companies have certain standards, and they might not compromise just to get the lowest price possible

    But I'll be tyou that 99 times out of a 100, they'll go with the lowest bidder that meets their requirements.

    Snake explained it much better in the previous post.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I might try it on my 98th birthday, not too much to lose by then.

    Well, just because your mind stopped working why would you want to give up your legs. But if you were in a chair, it WOULD make it easier on the "pusher". :D

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I didn't want to buy a car put together with parts from the lowest bidders.

    The car manufacturer sets the specifications and those specifications will be met whether it's the lowest bidder or the highest bidder. A higher bidder will not provide any more than the specs. Why would you go with anyone but the lowest bidder? If there's a complaint, it should be directed at those who set the specifications.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Not that I have to deal with it anymore but that has been a constant problem at work. We have to go with the low bidder by law which allowed people who got terminated reapply and again being the low bidder they'd be right back. If they gave us a choice of, say, one of the three low bidders life would be much easier.

    What we end up doing instead is being insanely precise about what we want. This is a bear when you are bidding out a contract for janitorial services. The only way to enforce things is to have absolutely everything in the contract.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    If I hadn't cared, I wouldn't have been in D.C. on 9/12. No one deserves to make a profit off our tax dollars unless the people say that they can. A czar does not represent the people. Congressmen do not represent czars. They are supposed to represent their constituents.

    Richard
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    In other words the lowest bidder.

    Ok, I guess you and the Tidester are politically correct on this point, and I do concede (not seen here too frequently).

    What I should have said was "I didn't want to buy a car made from the cheapest possible parts". Unfortunately, almost all companies will buy from suppliers with the lowest bid..........some companies do have a higher standard for the actual part being made.

    Trying to save money by making the cheapest possible part could be very false economy, as when you get exploding Pintos.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,760
    >I didn't want to buy a car put together with parts from the lowest bidders.

    If you go out this weekend for a steak at Outback, Texas Roadhouse, etc., ask the manager if the beef they use is from the highest bidder in Argentina or Australia or wherever? Same for the lettuce from the salads. Only Michelle would go out for the highest price on arugulas. :P

    The lowest bidder excuse is a red herring.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    If I hadn't cared, I wouldn't have been in D.C. on 9/12.

    In Canada we have spent a lot of money on stimulus packages too, though no C4C thank goodness. Our Conservative Party was forced into spending money by a Liberal party. It is nice to see that both countries seem to be making a recovery.......I think we would have had similar results though with no extra spending.

    I am sorry your money went to car dealers and junk dealers though.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,357
    Richard, how many people were actually there? Those on the left say about 70,000 and those who know better say around 2 million. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Off topics politics is over here

    Seriously please don't bring this in here.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,357
    Careful, you may be fined for trying to impersonate a host. And doing it badly.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    I think he did it pretty well.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Police told us about one million. Looked like it to me.

    Richard
This discussion has been closed.

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