Stories from the Sales Frontlines

18888898918938942003

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 271,685
    Hey... with all the rain, maybe they can stop stealing Alabama's water supply! ;)

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  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Moo, I just saw on CBS where you have had 20 inches of rain since Saturday!

    Holy Cow! Can you pls send some our way?

    Seriously our *annual* rainfall is 19"! I can't imagine 20" in a few days.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Now you know in the South we just call that sharing. :P

    Richard
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Moo needs to start selling these......

    image
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,302
    Nicely told gg. The quoted dialogue exchanges and detail make for a very good story.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Where are you located? We finally got some of Moo's rain this morning.

    Richard
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Michael, we are up here freezing in Superior - can you send up some of that tropical Castle Rock air?

    Don't you know we're on the dreaded "Palmer Divide"? I saw on the news that we may get 6-12" of snow with the next front. "Western and southern suburbs" - great.

    I'm so glad I've got the painters coming out next weekend to paint my house ...
    :mad: :sick:
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Of course I know that - just kidding. Have fun digging yourself out. If this keeps up I wonder what happens to the low snow year that was predicted. Business has really picked up so maybe folks are preparing for the worst..
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Wow, never seen anything like this in my life. My parents are trapped in their subdivision. 15' of water cover their entire entrance. The bridge, the tennis courts, the pool... everything under water.

    The local soccer park near my house had about 10' of water covering about 3 football fields wide and who knows how long. The goals were completely covered, playground gone...

    I see sunlight poking through the clouds now. We are supposed to get more rain throughout the week, but I think the worst is over. Cleanup begins.

    This is crushing our sales right now. So slow. :(
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    I think this link will get you to a bunch of pictures submitted by readers.

    http://projects.ajc.com/photos/image/metro-atlanta-weekend-storms/1045/
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    I'm in Sacramento, CA. Our rainy season doesn't start until mid/late October. It's supposed to be a wet season thanks to El Nino. We'll see.
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Holy cow. That's a lot of water. Stay safe (and dry).
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    i need some direction. i have a deal to sell my currently leased honda to an out of state dealer. they want to come pick up the van, and take it back to NC where they are located. they say they will have me fill out all the forms, and will make the payoff to Honda. they took all my info. Is this safe to do? let them drive van away while
    it is still technically mine? my dad is freaking out over it. I do have a local buyer
    willing to pay the same price, but I I wont have to pay sales tax if the dealer buys
    the vehicle from honda. I need some help.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,778
    Besides the slow sales from your torrential rain, how's the 1.9% financing from Porsche doing for you? Helping at all or just a bunch of tire kickers?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD, 2025 Integra

  • percussionistpercussionist Member Posts: 204
    I'm certainly no expert, but I would never let anyone take anything that is mine. As soon as they make the payoff to Honda and you can confirm that, sign whatever paperwork they need and then give them the keys, just like you would if you were trading it in at their showroom.

    I'm also not familiar with KY tax laws - why would you pay sales tax when selling something - wouldn't the buyer pay that?

    How much is the tax? If it's negligible, say the same amount it would cost you to drive your van to NC, then I would sell it locally and pay the tax, just to have the peace of mind.
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    i cancelled the deal. just too shady. i should have asked they make the payoff
    first to honda, but this buyer was in such a hurry to come up here and get it. he would have gotten it the next day. as far as the tax goes, honda doesnt allow
    3rd party lease buyouts. I buy it from HOnda, pay the sales tax on purchasing the van, or a usage tax since it is registered to my business. then my buyer has to pay the tax on the price when we transfer the title. absurd. the tax is going to be about $1600. since I am selling it locally, I am going to check with my dealer to see if they can flip it for me. I can pay their doc fees and take them to lunch.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,237
    Scott....this smells. I can't figure out why an out of state dealer would want your Honda van (Odyssey, right?). It's not like this is an exotic, or a rare vehicle. Is the lease buyout price so low that you stand to make some substantial money on selling it on the open market?

    For that matter, why even sell it to any other buyer? Is the lease up? If so, why bother with selling it to someone else. Just turn it back into the leasing company.

    On strictly a business perspective, if you were using the Honda as a business vehicle, and you wrote it off as such, what was the term you used for the right off? You may be stuck with paying the IRS some coin if you dispose of it before the term is up, too (based on the terms you wrote it off).

    I'd hold onto it, based on what you're telling us. I think we need a few more details.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    i have 17 payments left. its a great vehicle, but we have some monthly medical expenses for our son insurance isnt going to cover. I decided it would be best to try and sell the van and buy a used car to drive for a couple of years until our daycare and medical expenses subside. my local buyer is paying my payoff amount, about 25.2K. I am going to be at least 10K over on this lease by the time its up. so rather than pay the mileage penalty, i thought I could sell it and pay the sales tax now, which is going to be less.

    in laymens terms, I have about 10K left to put into this lease only to give it back.
    I would rather take that 10K and buy a car to own now, rather then start over down the road for 4-5 more years of payments. I am dumb when it comes to car buying.
    I will say once this lease was up, i wouldnt lease again. I drive too many miles. I had planned on buying used.
    i just dont want any more car payments.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    i have 17 payments left. its a great vehicle

    Sorry to hear this, I suppose many of us have gone through these situations in life. I always think school would be more helpful if they explained how to make good decisions about money, might be more useful than trigonometry (do they still have that?)

    I heard an ad on the radio the other day for a company called Lease Busters - they will buy up any lease (this is in Canada but I am sure if it is here it must be in the U.S.). If you do sell it privately, I am sure you will come out ahead, but if you really need to sell it might be worth a try.

    You are taking a risk again though I think. You sound like you have thought this through quite well and are very logical in your thinking, but I don't know if buying a used car, and putting lots of miles on it will work out that well too. A one or two year old car will be the best buy, biggest depreciation hit and still lower miles. Personally, I think buying a less expensive new car with a long warranty is less risky...and if you own it you can sell it if you have to.

    Good luck!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,237
    OK....now it's a bit more clear. 17 months left on a lease is quite a bit. Is this a 36 month lease? 48 months? 60 months :cry: ?

    Leasing companies can be off a bit on residual values. But, $10K is quite a bit....especially since it sounds like your Honda has some serious miles (as you point out, you're going to be way over on the mileage terms).

    I'm still trying to wrap my arms around the paying taxes thing. You're buying it from the leasing company, so I understand that part. Then, the new buyer purchases it from you, but those taxes go to the gov't. Not to you.

    $25.2 on a used Odyssey, with some hinky miles sounds like a lot (depending on the year). Why would someone do that? Is the local buyer a dealer, or an individual? How did they come up with a price of $25.2 as its worth?

    Just a quick look at a new, '09 Ody, with leather, the buyer can get one for about $5K more, with no miles, and all the warranty. Even a used Ody, say an '07, with normal miles, can be had for around $25K-$26K.

    I'm trying to figure out how you make this work without some substantial cash coming out of your pocket to dispose of it.

    Don't know what the lease terms are, but even if the mileage penalty is .25/mile, you're looking at $2,500 out of pocket at lease end. Did you put a lot of money down on the lease (cap cost reduction)? If so, how much?

    Ordinarily, any leasee is going to be upside down for the entire term of the lease. That's why I'm trying to figure out how you walk away from this one with 17 payments left.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    36month lease through Honda
    I have $7717 worth of lease payments left, i can't remember what the residual is, somewhere around 18K or so, I was adding in my estimated mileage penalty to the 10K i stated above.

    My payoff is actually $25433, I took an offer of 25.2 from the buyer. If I pay the sales tax and what I owe, I am out around $1800 out of pocket. Unless his bank wants to buy the van from HOnda, relieving me of the sales tax issue. then I am only out $233.
    My van is an EX-L with RES. If he doesn't want to buy new, I got no problem with that. He can buy an extended warranty from Honda. as far as another car goes, I don't want to pay more than $300 per month.
  • dtezladtezla Member Posts: 88
    I'm trying to clarify how a lease buyout works for those confused.

    If you have a residual amount of $18,000 (which was set at the time you signed your lease & Honda generally does not renegotiate this) + your remaining payments of $7,717 ... this would be your current payoff. If you choose to purchase this car, you need to pay sales tax on the total amount, in this case $25,717 or so. Keep in mind that you never actually "bought" this car when you signed the lease. Any taxes that were incorporated into your lease are "usage" taxes, not sales taxes.

    If you turn the vehicle in to Honda with more miles than your lease agreement, you would normally be charged .10 - .20 cents per mile (depending on the lease agreement) as well as any damage charges and a disposition fee. Since you are purchasing the car, Honda doesn't care about excess mileage or damage so your payoff would just be the residual, remaining payments & tax/tag charges.

    Now that you actually "Own" your vehicle, you can sell it, or trade it in toward the purchase of a new or pre-owned vehicle.

    This is why you have to pay tax on a lease buyout.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    To further simplify, on a lease you pay tax on the monthly payment.
  • bmw4me2bmw4me2 Member Posts: 56
    In Illinois you pay all of the taxes on the lease at the time of purchase but when I lived in Florida tax was paid on a monthly basis.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    The only upfront taxes on lease here is city or county tax that the lease company cannot collect. that is usually in the rural areas. In the metro area all are monthly. But even the upfront are based on the monthly payment.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 271,685
    A lot of states collect the tax upfront, though you can add it to your CAP cost... (NY, NJ, OH, for example)

    Some states collect sales tax on the entire purchase price (even though it's a lease)... Illinois and Texas, for example...

    Of course, the most desirable way... are the states that collect the tax each month, with the lease payment.... KY, CA, and a bunch of other ones..

    scottinky.. If you trade your lease in to a dealer, then they should get a payoff from Honda Finance that doesn't include taxes... I doubt you can come close to breaking even, selling to a dealer, but at least you don't have to factor in the sales tax.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    This talk about leasing reminds me about when I leased my 84 Camaro. That was when buy-backs were very low, and miles allowed were very high.

    Just when the lease was up the finance guy at the dealer called me for a meeting. I thought they were going to arrange for getting me into a new car.

    The finance guy and sales manager were there with some papers they wanted me to sign. They said they sold the car to me at too low a price, it was calcualated by a new clerk at the time, and they wanted me to pay an additional $1600, or they wouldn't make any profit on the car.

    I thought I got that car for a really good price, so that made me sure I got a good deal.

    I said "I felt bad for them" (and even though I had tears in my eyes) but I wasn't interested in coming up with $1600 for the dealership.

    I bought my next car somewhere else because I thought they would sure want to make it up on my next purchase.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,582
    ...for the BMW Car Club's annual Oktoberfest. It's going to be held at Lake Lanier Islands Resort- assuming that the place is not underwater... :surprise:
    I'm supposed to instruct at Road Atlanta; maybe I should bring my Wrangler instead of my 318ti... :P

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,582
    The finance guy and sales manager were there with some papers they wanted me to sign. They said they sold the car to me at too low a price, it was calcualated by a new clerk at the time, and they wanted me to pay an additional $1600, or they wouldn't make any profit on the car.

    My dad and his business partner leased two Caprice Classics back in the late 70's. When the lease was up the partner returned his car and then received a phone call from the dealer @ 2 weeks later. They told him the car brought $1200 less than estimated and that he would have to make up the difference. He told them to show him the contract language that made him responsible and to produce all the supporting sales documentation. They never called back.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I bought my next car somewhere else because I thought they would sure want to make it up on my next purchase.

    In reality that doesn't happen. Once a deal is done and delivered, nobody will look back when you come back to buy another vehicle.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,237
    OK....you've got 19 payments left. Based on what you said, you've got a payment of around $400 and change as your lease payment per month. You want to be around $300/mo, plus you want to own the "other" car you want to buy.

    There's a delta of about $100 between your current payment and what you want your payment to be.

    So, $100 x 19 more payments = $1,900. And your out of pocket right now on this sale is $1,800. Kind of a wash.

    But, as you say, you would own a car at some point if you pull this deal off, and buy something else.

    On the other hand, buying something else, even used, you're extending your payments past the 19 months you have left on your current lease (probably, at least an additional 36 months)..

    I say, keep the Ody till the end of the lease. Then, start all over again, only this time on a purchase instead of a lease. To me, that makes the most sense.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    But you also have to figure in the mileage penalty if the van is turned back at the end of the lease.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    Once a deal is done and delivered, nobody will look back

    Interesting, I will keep that in mind (though I think the dealer learned not to give cars away at cost any more) .

    Leasing used to have some great advantages....these days I think it only works if you are leasing a car that doesn't depreciate much, and if you don't drive many miles.

    I suppose that low monthly payment is hard for some people to turn down, but it could lead to problems like our friend here with the Odyssey.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    2 weeks later. They told him the car brought $1200 less than estimated and that he would have to make up the difference

    And we wonder why car dealers get such bad reputations.

    Many are fine and I am sure honest (like the fine people on this post), but a few stories like that certainly lead to a lot of distrust. I really wonder whether these dealerships ever collect from any one in these situations. It's hard enough getting people to part with their money for a legitimate reason.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,430
    these days I think it only works if you are leasing a car that doesn't depreciate much, and if you don't drive many miles.

    Alot of the leases also have very low money factors that help drive the cost down. Actually, with the residuals in the toilet that is really the only way leasing makes any sense. Try and figure a lease at a non-subsidised MF and it will be sky high. Residual on three year leases used to be 55 - 58% now I am seeing mid 40s (even on Lexus) and on a Cadillac board i saw in the 30s! I was happy on my last lease in May to get a 49% and a MF that equated to 1.4 % interest.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,237
    lrguy...you're right. But, I think it depends on how much the OP believes he'll be over on the mileage. I assumed the penalty wouldn't be much, since someone is offering him top dollar on the Ody right now. That tells me the mileage penalty wouldn't be that bad, if they're willing to do that.

    Bottom line, he's paying to relieve himself of the current lease, while extending the time he'll be paying his lower payments for a used car. Plus, he'll get to keep the $1,600 he'd have to pay to do the Ody deal right now.

    To me, riding out the lease seems to be the best option.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Some of the 36 month Saab leases are in the low 30s to high 20s for residual.

    Even the 2010 Volvos have residuals in the mid 40 percent range.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,430
    are in the low 30s to high 20s for residual

    It just can't make any sense to lease those. I would think low intersest financing would work out much better.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    We haven't leased a Saab in hmhh almost two years because there is no lease support for them.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    are in the low 30s to high 20s for residual

    It just can't make any sense to lease those


    I think that would make a used Saab a great buy in 3 years time! :D

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Must be some nice thrifty convertibles coming up.....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Lime yellow 2004 all for you Fezo.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,570
    "...Some of the Saab leases are in the low 30s to high 20s for residual..."

    Ok, educate me here because I know very little about leasing. You're saying that a 3 year old Saab is only worth 30% of the original MSRP after 3 years? Didn't we just have a discussion on one of these boards that used car prices are skyrocketing due to short supply?

    How can depreciation be so high? The worst I've ever heard of is the Kia Sedona being worth only 20% of MSRP after FIVE years. I'm confused. :confuse:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,066
    :):):)
    so rover, you didn't tell 'fez i bought the silver one? :P
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    The silver one! I have a case of non-buyer's remorse.....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,066
    just having a little fun. when you find the right one, you will buy it.
    so many times i have said to myself, if i hadn't just bought a car, or if i just had the extra cash....
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,691
    Didn't we just have a discussion on one of these boards that used car prices are skyrocketing due to short supply?

    Used car prices are going up....but the car companies got burned on risidual values especially for SUVs, so they are going to estimate on the lower end when predicting values 3 years from now. Keep in mind too, the economy hopefully will be back on track by then, and used cars won't be selling as well in 3 years.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    A big part of things is I'd have to sell the Celica first to do such a thing and I haven't brought myself to do that yet.

    At this point nothing will happen until spring though I had the top down today.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • scottinkyscottinky Member Posts: 194
    I am 7K over right now, or about $1400. I Can expect to be probably 10,000 miles over my allotment when the lease is up, so thats a 2K penalty. If i can get out of it
    now for less, isn't that the better option?

    If i ride the lease out, i make 17 more payments, plus the penalty. then have to start over again making payments for at least 48 months depending on what I would buy.
    or I can wait another year, then trade the van in on something. I wont be driving much during the winter time, so by next summer, i could trade down before the warranty runs out. how about that?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    A few points.

    1. No one is actually leasing Saabs at all right now cause you can finance one for less over 60 months. With no one leasing the residuals are really a non-starter there will be no leased Saabs coming back with these too low 30-35% residuals.

    2. I think the residuals for many cars right now are actually too low. A typical overreaction to the too high residuals of the past few years.

    3. These are for residuals three years from now so the current market for used cars has little impact on it. The market for used cars in three years will probably be even tighter then it is now but I can't say that for sure.

    4. On the flip side of all that supporting low residuals we are selling 2009 Saabs for 10,000 dollars or more off MSRP now. That is with all the money back from GM, all the markup from invoice, all the hold back plus thousands of dollars in loses just to keep these cars from becoming curtailed by the bank when they have their birthdays.

    On a 36,000 MSRP car that is already a 72 percent residual before the car is even one month old. A 36 percent residual for three years on a 36,000 MSRP car is $12,960. That $12,960 is a 49% of $26,000 the actual selling price of the car. Now a 49% residual after three years and 45,000 miles sounds about right to me.
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