Stories from the Sales Frontlines

dino001

I guess some people mean exactly what they say - which is probably hard to comprehend for lots of guys who are in sales business of any kind. :P

madmanmoo

I am quite positive that 40% of this board has no sense of humor. I was speaking in reference to his habit of running out to the car to see if he had "negotiated" the best deal. When you have to explain a joke it just isn't funny. :sick:

Ahh well, I'll try again on another joke.

jmonroe

...you wouldn't think to charge him extra just because he thinks MSRP is a good price - wouldn't you?

He just might try it.

You know how those sales guys are. What makes you think they can always recognize a good deal?

jmonroe

carhag2000

I guess some people mean exactly what they say - which is probably hard to comprehend for lots of guys who are in sales business of any kind

If one in twenty customrs mean exactly what they say I would be amazed. Dino you werent implying that sales people dont always mean exactly what they say, were you?

dino001

LOL! Sure I didn't

As we all know both sides tell the truth and nothing but the truth and they mean absolutely everything they say.

dglozman

for some reason I think he would try just that. He stated before that he wants to make as much as possible, and I don't recall that he ever used word "ethics" in his posts.

jmonroe

...When you have to explain a joke it just isn't funny.

I was laughing. You couldn't hear me because of the paint in your ears.

jmonroe

madmanmoo

Its basic negotiation strategy always reject the first offer.

And then drive away. You don't see the humor here? There are any number of reasons why people will let you walk.

Here's a few of the possible reasons:

1. You've got a green salesperson who doesn't know he has a deal and let's you go.

2. The dealer doesn't have the car and won't do it on a dealer transfer.

3. The salesperson doesn't want to sell you a vehicle.

4. The salesperson sees that you are a laydown and are offering a more than acceptable offer. So he lets you go to your car to sit and wait and see if HE is going to chase you out the door. Then, just as you are about to leave he runs out and stops you so he can write up a 3 pounder.

There is a lot of humor to be had there. If that's the way you want to run a car deal, more power to ya. I just think it's hysterical. You're right, when you are pulling into your driveway without a new car, you really know that the dealer didn't want to sell you that vehicle. Without a shadow of a doubt...

In my (not so) humble opinion, I think you guys are living in the stone ages. You know where the invoice is at. You know what holdback is. You got your trade appraised at Carmax. You got a rate from Lending Tree. Who really needs to play those games anymore? Unless you just want to. I'm the salesperson laughing at you as you drive away because you keep looking back over your shoulder to see if I'm chasing you to your car.

grandtotal

I'm the salesperson laughing at you as you drive away because you keep looking back over your shoulder to see if I'm chasing you to your car.

You're laughing as you see your commission driving down the road? You do have a strange sense of humour.

snakeweasel

He talks about being "logical" but to me, since he plans to raise his offer at the next store, why not just raise it at the store he is at already?

Because conceding anything before the other guy even presents his/hers position can be a fatal mistake in negotiations. I do see making a take it and leave it approach going from dealer to dealer as being a little senseless. However I do not think its a good ideal to raise your price when all that was done was give a refusal, you have to counter the offer for me to raise mine.

snakeweasel

I have had that happen too, however on the way home I did happen to buy the car from someone else.

robr2

Not in the business.

Here's a few of the possible reasons:

1. You've got a green salesperson who doesn't know he has a deal and let's you go.

No greenpea is going to say no right away. He's gotta go to the desk and present it. It he comes back with No, that's a management No.

2. The dealer doesn't have the car and won't do it on a dealer transfer.

Their problem, not Bob's.

3. The salesperson doesn't want to sell you a vehicle.

Ibid

4. The salesperson sees that you are a laydown and are offering a more than acceptable offer. So he lets you go to your car to sit and wait and see if HE is going to chase you out the door. Then, just as you are about to leave he runs out and stops you so he can write up a 3 pounder.

That doesn't matter to Bob. The price he offers is the price he is willing to pay. To him, that's the acceptable deal. If it's a 3 pounder for the sales rep, so be it. Isn't that what you guys want - an easy sale?

I couldn't do it Bob's way but it works for him.

Uhmmm, am I actually defending Bob??

madmanmoo

Not in the business.

Then you are obviously more qualified than us to speak on the matter according to this board. Please continue with your dissertation.

Let me explain a little bit further since some folks aren't catching on. There are many different reasons for someone letting you leave. Not all of them are going to include the reason that your price is just too low. So if you don't sit and NEGOTIATE, then you'll miss out on those reasons and you will needlessly raise your offer at the next dealership. Because things may be different at that dealership. Everyone included now?

tsgeisel

The bobst method works best when the dealer has *exactly* the car you want, and you know that the price you're offering is a fair one.

And by fair, I mean, not ridiculously low-ball, but such that if you were an excellent negotiator, you'd have gotten to that price eventually.

It's a technique that only works if you're willing to buy the car right then and there. Otherwise you're just being an [non-permissible content removed].

The most important rule of negotiation is to "embrace the power of No". But the other side of that is "You can't close a deal without eventually saying Yes."

madmanmoo

There are certain times that a salesperson must make the decision to either pass on a deal or take a deal from a customer who is obviously unhappy.

A lady I had been working over the internet from another state agreed on a price. I believed that everything was satisfactorily agreed upon for her delivery. When she arrived at our dealership and took a look at the vehicle and the deal, she went crazy. She accused us of changing the price, of the mileage being too high, and of us being complete liars. Needless to say, we weren't too happy.

Guess what we did? We passed on the deal. But the funniest part about the whole situation was that we WERE lying. I lowballed her on the price, we didn't disclose damage that had been done to the vehicle, and there were more miles on the vehicle than I had told her. Man, you should have seen the look on her face when she realized she was going to need to drive back home a couple hundred miles without a new car. Priceless.

Why'd we do it? Because that's just good business. :shades:

snakeweasel

He talks about being "logical" but to me, since he plans to raise his offer at the next store, why not just raise it at the store he is at already?

Because conceding anything before the other guy even presents his/hers position can be a fatal mistake in negotiations. I do see making a take it and leave it approach going from dealer to dealer as being a little senseless. However I do not think its a good ideal to raise your price when all that was done was give a refusal, you have to counter the offer for me to raise mine.

dino001

You're missing the point entirely. Reasons for not accepting the offer can be plenty, but they are irrelevant. All that counts is Bob thought the car was worth X and they said no. But the only way to make sure the no is for real is to walk away and not be stopped.

Perhaps increasing offer by $100 in the same place would give him the deal, but his personality (and perhaps experience) prohibits turning around and coming back. He may appear to be vulnerable (and indecisive) and there is strong possibility that the thinking will be is if he increased the offer by $100, why not try him for $500? So he goes to a new place with a fresh start and tries $100 more.

It is plane and simple - there is no humor and no sadness there. Just one of approaches - perhaps not that common, but it seems to be working for him, so why change?

snakeweasel

I was speaking in reference to his habit of running out to the car to see if he had "negotiated" the best deal

Thats just it, he doesn't negotiate, he doesn't like to negotiate. He does his research figures out a price makes an offer and its either accepted or rejected. No negotiation involved.

madmanmoo

Much as I would pass on a deal with Bobst, I pass on this thread. I feel like I'm getting dumber as the thread gets longer. Thanks though guys.

snakeweasel

You don't see the humor here?

No humor there, he made an offer it was rejected end of story. Offers are made and rejected all the time, there is no humor in that.

1. You've got a green salesperson who doesn't know he has a deal and let's you go.

Doesn't matter his offer was rejected.

2. The dealer doesn't have the car and won't do it on a dealer transfer.

Doesn't matter his offer was rejected.

3. The salesperson doesn't want to sell you a vehicle.

Doesn't matter his offer was rejected.

4. The salesperson sees that you are a laydown ....

Doesn't matter his offer was rejected.

You see it doesn't matter why the offer was rejected, what matters is that it was rejected. Bobst doesn't like to play the negotiation game so he makes an offer and if its accepted you have a deal, if it is not you don't. Its a very simple concept.

madmanmoo

Yawn. Next topic. We're beating a dead horse.

qbrozen

isn't "purchasing strategies" still open for this discussion? I abandoned that thread long ago, I don't want to have to abandon this one, too.

dino001

But the funniest part about the whole situation was that we WERE lying.

Are you for real? :sick:

robr2

Then you are obviously more qualified than us to speak on the matter according to this board. Please continue with your dissertation.

Thanks for the sarcasm. I may not be in the business but have been around here for years. I have a pretty good feel for what works and what doesn't work and agree/disagree with both sides of the table here.

As noted above, it doesn't matter the reason for the rejection - all that matters is that it was. Bob doesn't like to negotiate back and forth. His method works for him.

snakeweasel

Yep your right, I have to get out from under this bridge.

madmanmoo

act like they own the place

I actually just dropped by to see who WAS in charge. Anyone know?

graphicguy

Let's not get into the "who controls the negotiation" thing. A seasoned buyer doesn't care who controls the negotiations. Your customer can walk out at any time. So, he/she is always in control.

Call it an ultimatum if you want, but a buyer (in this case "bobst") has given you the price he will buy at. If you don't want to accept it, you don't have to. He's not saying you have to sell him the car at the price he offered (THAT would be an ultimatum). And "yes", you do run the risk that another dealer may accept the offer that you rejected if you let him walk.

Like "jmonroe" stated, if you accept the offer, then write it up and close the deal. At that point, all you have to do is to tell the customer they just bought a car and you're going to get it prepped for them to drive home.

cccompson

If this was a serious post, all I can say is you've reinforced ALL of the bad images buyers have about dealers.

If not, you do indeed have a unique sense of humor.

cccompson

No, it wasn't you, I'm in Columbus and bought locally.

carhag2000

I actually just dropped by to see who WAS in charge. Anyone know?

I'm in charge Moo. In charge of the car sales seminar. You know what a sales seminar is don't you? Thats where we get together after work, drink brewskis and swap " you won't believe MY customer" stories.

bobst

I'm glad I could entertain you all for awhile.

Madman, we are pleased that you have joined this forum. By the way, is your story about lying to the lady customer for real?

I guess my son has also learned to make offers without negotiating. A year ago he offered a ring to a very nice young lady and, without even trying to negotiate for a better ring, she accepted.

Just because his first offer was accepted, he did not have second thoughts like, "Hey, maybe I should have proposed to Paris Hilton instead." Being a man of his word, he is going thru with the original deal and they are getting married on Saturday. I guess we raised that boy right.

kdhspyder

But actually he didn't mean what he said because he went to the next dealer and offered $150 more. Essentially he was taking a shot, which is perfectly acceptable, as long as both sides know what is going on. That's part of negotiating.

The walking out part is only face-saving. 'I won't buy it from you if you make me come up on my initial offer. I'll give it to someone else so that I can save face.'

ravichander

You're right, when you are pulling into your driveway without a new car, you really know that the dealer didn't want to sell you that vehicle. Without a shadow of a doubt...

Yea, right....If that is the case why are there so many voice mail the next day (or even the same day) after you walked away, asking you to come and negotiate?

pat

Congrats to your son and soon-to-be daughter-in-law, Bob. Hope things go well Saturday and henceforth.

graphicguy

guess my son has also learned to make offers without negotiating. A year ago he offered a ring to a very nice young lady and, without even trying to negotiate for a better ring, she accepted.

Now....that's funny. I wonder if your son tried to negotiate with his fiance? Do you think she would have said "yes" if the ring cost $1,000 less?

madmanmoo

Grats to you and your family, Bobst!

That's some good stuff. I just found out this morning that I'm going to be having a boy. :surprise:

No, of course that story isn't true. I'm keeding. I'm making fun of the business and the stereotypes.

Have fun on Saturday and don't get too teary-eyed.

-Moo

madmanmoo

Hehe,

I love that seminar. I hope you can top mine. Just make up some ridiculous lies.... I don't care. As long as it's entertaining. That's why I'm here.

carhag2000

I don't care. As long as it's entertaining.

Lie to me, steal from me, cheat me. Just dont bore me.

mark156

I've been reading and posting on Edmunds for a long time. I would certainly use the "Bobst" method if only we had more than one Mercedes/Land Rover/Jaguar/BMW dealer around... just one of each!

M156 :surprise:

explorerx4

i'm ok with the non p-c sales stories, as long as they are true.

jipster

So if you don't sit and NEGOTIATE, then you'll miss out on those reasons and you will needlessly raise you offer at the next dealership.

Good point, and one I have not seen mentioned on this board before. So, if bobst had taken a little time to negotiate, and raised his offer say $100... it could have saved him the hassle of starting the car buying process all over again, as will as saving himself fifty bucks.

If he or anyone else feels the need to walk to find out if their offer will be taken(which I have done), then I still maintain it much more "logical" to pick up the phone and make a counter offer later in the day. Spin it however you want, "I've reconsidered Mr. Sales Dude... and if you accept my final offer at this moment I'll be in to sign the papers. If not then I will be shopping other dealerships in the morning"

snakeweasel

Good point,

It is a good point but it fails to address one simple point. People like Bobst don't like to negotiate. These people would gladly pay $100 or more to avoid what they consider a displeasure.

So, if bobst had taken a little time to negotiate, and raised his offer say $100... it could have saved him the hassle of starting the car buying process all over again, as will as saving himself fifty bucks.

First thing using Bobst method all that is involved in starting the car buying process all over again in walking in the door and making an offer. Its very simple. Secondly t may very well be worth $50 to avoid the hassle that he dislikes. Finally upping his price by $100 could actually cost him more than the additional $100.

bobst

Thanks to everyone for all of your best wishes for our son's wedding.

jipster

bobst may not like to negotiate, but I think it would be much less stress and more "logical" to pick up the phone to make a simple counter offer, than to go to another dealership and confront another salesperson and sales manager
with a take it or leave it offer, things bobst has said he does not like to do.

.. all that is involved in starting the car buying process all over again is walking in the door and making an offer.

LOL... you must be joking?

bobst

Jip, please let us in on the joke.

bmmeup

Does anybody have an actual sales story? I am intimidated by all of these professional car buyers.

jipster

Jip, please let us in on the joke.

bobst:(materializes before dealership doors ala Star Trek) "Excuse me, but here is my first and only offer for that Toyota Corolla LX Package #3."(hands salesperson sheet of paper with offer on it)

salesperson:"Sir, we have no Corolla in package #3... who are you?"

bobst:"Doesn't matter... do you want to sell a car today or not?"

salesperson:"Fine sir... but you are about $5,000 off of what we paid for this vehicle. On what do you base your information?"

bobst:"Divine intervention!... come on buddy, do we have a deal or not?"

salesperson:"Sorry sir, you show up unannounced, don't know what we have on the lot, didn't test drive, you didn't do any research on prices...(pause) We can let you have a LX at invoice."

bobst: "Pound Salt!" (walking to his car... still walking... still walking... getting in... slowly shuts door, slowly starts engine... slowly drives away looking in rear view mirror)

But, seriously. I think it's more complicated than what snake described... even for you.

dkarsch

The more important question...did Bobst's son negotiate a good deal on the engagement ring??

driveright

If I recall correctly, you present a written offer. Would you share what items you include?

bobst

When we bought our Honda Accord in 2005, we wanted mudflaps and two extra valet keys.

We gave them our out-the-door offer, which included transportation, sales tax, dealer prep, tag, title, etc.

Of course, the offer was contingent on us liking tha car after a test drive.

They accepted, we took the car for a test drive, liked it, gave them a check, and drove it home. Car buying is really a lot of fun.