Those markets are dog eat dog. A lot of dealers in a small area. The greedy shoppers pit one dealer against the others and the dealers struggle to survive.
They pull every trick they can get away with. They turn over their sales staff constantly and treat them like grammar school kids.
From the customers' perspective I can only say that you did the right thing here.
I was a repeat customer when I bought my '05 Odyssey last year. We agreed on price and they went and got it from an out of town store in Dayton. Heck, they even offered to let me go pick it up! I signed nothing prior to delivery.
It's definitely a lot tougher than my previous market (Denver, CO). One advantage is year-round sellling, and we never have to scrape ice off of windshields
The funny thing is, dealers could put their foot down and make a killing, but we're so busy undercutting each other the customers must think they're just "smarter" here lol...
I was a repeat customer when I bought my '05 Odyssey last year. We agreed on price and they went and got it from an out of town store in Dayton. Heck, they even offered to let me go pick it up! I signed nothing prior to delivery.
What town are you in you might have bought it from me!
i'm going to put 'tjw1308' on a card or something next time negotiate a vehicle purchase. anytime i think i might be 'caving in', i'll take a look at it and be inspired to renegotiate.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
The greedy shoppers pit one dealer against the others and the dealers struggle to survive
As Tjw says - they just do their job and they do it well... Comething tells me poor CA dealers somehow survive this terrible experience, since they haven't closed their stores in this horrible place.
Since the car can be had for sticker in 6 months, here are 5 things that I'd rather do with the money:
1 - Get a new driveway. Lord knows I need it 2 - Pay down my HELOC which is getting pricey 3 - Put it into my kid's college savings account so that it will grow to 20 grand by the time it's needed. That should cover books for one semester by then 4 - Go back to Hawaii 5 - Sock it away for some serious performance upgrades once I buy the car in 6 months.
I'm not talking about a car like a Z06. The rarity and performance results in it's demand/supply curve. Rather if we're talking a Magnum, GTO, Camaro or Mustang GT, being the first one to have one with a blower will be a much bigger thrill than just being the first one to have one.
What kinds of things do customers say that are lies?
1) Another dealer promosed the same car to me at the same price and gave me 3,000 more for my trade. ( especially when I am at an invoice deal or less, just not possible) 2)Negotitating a price and when they come back for delivery say " didnt you say you would throw in floor mats, splash guards etc..." 3)My dad, brother-in-law, cousin etc... told me they can buy the exact same car for thousands less. 4) My trade in is in showroom condition just give me a value for it over the phone and " I wont hold you to it" 5) My trade in has never been wrecked, damaged, painted etc. 6) There is nothinbg wrong with my car ( after the appraiser and I have to walk back from a test drive because it was over heating.)
You know its not so much the lies as it si the insult to my intelligence.
i had a guy come in and say his brother in law could get a titan for 10k off sticker in the boston area (story takes place 2 years ago). i told him to give me the name of the dealer, because at that price, i'll buy one too!
even with the rebate and our deal at nothing, we were only about 5500-6k off sticker...
3)My dad, brother-in-law, cousin etc... told me they can buy the exact same car for thousands less.
The buyer could be telling the truth. There are people that insist that they can get the best deal on everything. I just had some heat work done on my house. My best estimate was $3800 and a neighbor insisted that he could get it done for $1500. I asked and waited a couple of weeks but he never came up with a phone number.
I haven't seen a four-square since I was buying cars with my dad - around 20 years ago. Dealers are still using those? LOL.
FWIW, I paid sticker on my Yaris as well, like tjw1308. Wasn't worth it to grind for a few hundred bucks - I spent that time arguing over my trade-in. :P I'm a lousy negotiator but I figure that puts me smack dab in the middle of the pack between those who can wring out every last cent and those who buy everything in F&I, finance at some ridiculous rate and throw in an upside down balance to a loan.
A friend of mine asked a local tire shop if they could match Tire Rack's price. The guy said, "No way! Tire Rack sells 'em for less than I pay for 'em." My friend replied, "Then why don't you buy your tires from Tire Rack?"
Does it really matter what discount or trade value is offered? Isn't the DIFFERENCE you pay really where you should focus?
Say you want a Supreme X-mobile that normally sells for $30,000 and have a 4 year old non-Supreme X-mobile to trade. You determine from your research that the dealer has $3,000 between Invoice and MSRP. You also research your trade in value to be $17,000. In the ideal buyers world would you haggle over the discount and the trade in or would you focus on the difference of "your trade and $10,000 or something close to $10,000"?
I think some of us (both those in the sales profession and those of us who are car buyers) are constantly on the lookout for that "great deal".
Fact is, we all know what the numbers are. They're posted here and elsewhere.
Said it before...say it again....if you buy from soneone you trust, and you do your research, my guess is there's not going to be a few hundred difference between what any of us can buy a car for. The mere fact that we're all here discussing this shows that we at least have a passing knowledge of what any car, any brand, any model will sell for....in our area.
Some choose to make an offer based on our research and observations (market conditions, stock levels, etc). It's either accepted, bumped or rejected. The buyer shooses whether to walk on those paramters, or to get bumped, or to negotiate further.
Personally, I'm confident in my research and my numbers. I don't get insulted if my number is rejected. If I'm that far off on my number that it's not accepted, it just means I need to go back and do more research....since some parameter I thought was right, really wasn't right.
I only traded in a car one time. I figured the new car would cost $16600 OTD and our car was worth about $3000, so I offered to give them $13600 and our car to get the new one.
They declined my offer.
I went to another dealer, offered $13750 plus the old car, and they took it.
if you buy from soneone you trust, and you do your research, my guess is there's not going to be a few hundred difference between what any of us can buy a car for.
Agree with you on new cars.
Disagree with you on used car where the prices are generally more elastic. However, paying more for a better condition car may be better in the long run.
In either case, the more informed you are, the less you generally pay.
Now it show you've been here too short to hear about "bobst method" of car purchase: shortly firm offer, adjusted only when refused. How do you know for sure, it's been refused? When they don't chase you at the parking lot after you leave the place. I'm pretty sure, it wasn't a joke. Actually - you thinking it was, is funny :P
(I have also never chased anyone. It's a car deal, not a matter of life or death.)
I chased a guy down once, but only after he looked me straight in the eye and said something I wouldnt dare repeat here. Sales manager beat me to him and physically escorted him to his car.
Why didn't you just raise your offer at the first store?
I'll second that. Why put yourself thru the hassle of finding another dealership, another salesperson, and another car with the color, options and miles you are looking for? My times worth to much to be going thru all of that a second, third, or fourth time.
bobst says he didn't know his offer was refused until he got in his car and drove away. But, he could very well have picked up the phone later that day and counter offered. Salespeople do it all the time.
CarHag2000...I recently purchased a Chrysler product. My offer was for the invoice price, less the $2000.00 rebate and a firm "NO ADDED DEALER FEES" except for tax, tags and title fee (which I already had a pretty good idea of what that should be). My trade-in (from looking up NADA, KBB, and Edmunds, plus getting opinions from the Edmunds Trade-in forum experts was expected to bring between 12,000 and 13,000 dollars. My offer of above was accepted...but...then they offered me $10,000 tade-in. I said "No thanks and walked out to get in my car. The salesman rushed out and offered $10,500.00. I said "forget it". He then said, "I will be right back, don't leave". He came back within two minutes with $11,00.00 offer. I started up my engine and said, "I am leaving' He said I will be right back. To make this long story shorter, this went on for "THREE" more bumps to finally $12,500.00. I said "SOLD". Went back inside, signed all the papers )their normal $799.00 DOC.FEE was "preprinted" on the form and they in turn just added the $799.00 to the $12,550 (making the trade $13,299.00).. offer to NEGATE the $799.00 FEE. Several days later the salesman called me to make sure that when I got the Chrysler Survey I would give him an "excellent" rateing. I told him that he was AOK but that I sure wouldn't give the "OVERALL EXPERIENCE" and "excellent" and that they should change their sales approach. Of course, I guess most sales are a series of better offers on the trade-in (maybe and maybe not????)
I have had an offer rejected (amicably) in the showroom. I then left to drive home, by the time I got home there was a voicemail waiting for me saying come on back my offer was acceptable. It ain't over till it's over. Sometimes you do have to leave to find out if your offer was really unacceptable.
In my experience, these situations happen because there is no control by the salesman. What you are doing isn't a negotiation, it's an ultimatum. If that's what you like to do, great. But it's still hysterical to me. Ranks up there with workplace violence.
In your experience, you make an offer and then leave. If it's accepted in the parking lot, then you win. If it's not, then you move onto the next dealership for $150. :confuse:
Mmkay. I think Isell covered my thoughts on this.
By the way, what part of the country are you buying in? To my knowledge, these are car buying and selling tactics that were used a long time ago. Perhaps some parts of the country are still catching up.
See, life is very simple when you think logically.
:confuse:
Sidenote: What would you do if someone immediately accepted your offer? Would you tell the salesperson you needed to think about it and go sit in your car? And then leave?
Bobst will simply present a check to the salesperson for that amount. Why would he need to think about it? I'm sure if somebody walks into your dealership and pays the price that is printed on the car window you wouldn't think to charge him extra just because he thinks MSRP is a good price - wouldn't you?
It works that way sometimes if you have the patience to deal this way. Counseled my mother (88 at the time) who lives about 100 miles west of here. Researched a Buick Century and found one at a dealer about half way between where she lives and here. Figured a good price with rebates and reasonable trade on her old Century...not outragous, but gave her a pretty good idea of what she should be able to buy for.
She and a friend went over one afternoon and tried to work out the deal. She called me and said they were somewhat apart on making the deal...maybe $800-1000. I forget now since it has probably been a little over a year. I told her that was a little too much and she said okay, they were going to leave and go back home then. Well, about 45 minutes later she called and said they were waiting on the paperwork to be completed. She got in the car and was cranking up to leave when the sales guy came out the front door and said they had decided to accept the offer.
So, to do business this way, you just have to be ready to walk...be nice about it, but stick to your guns. Eventually you will make the right offer and make a deal, might have to adjust a little.
Why? He is right, the only way to know if the deal has really been rejected is to see if they let you drive away. If he would have raised his price at that first dealer it could very well have been a case of the dealer saying to the first offer "Hey thats an acceptable price but lets reject it and get him to offer more". Its basic negotiation strategy always reject the first offer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Comments
I make no less profit than the general sales floor.
I got lied to just as much on the sales floor.
There are markets I couldn't work in however. California comes to mind. I'm from there and it is a snakepit!
They're SPEED holes! They make the car go faster!!! :P
T
Hot or competitive markets are BRUTAL for internet sales.
But it still beats standing out on the point all day
T
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
They pull every trick they can get away with. They turn over their sales staff constantly and treat them like grammar school kids.
No fun!
I was a repeat customer when I bought my '05 Odyssey last year. We agreed on price and they went and got it from an out of town store in Dayton. Heck, they even offered to let me go pick it up! I signed nothing prior to delivery.
Maybe it's an Ohio thing....
The funny thing is, dealers could put their foot down and make a killing, but we're so busy undercutting each other the customers must think they're just "smarter" here lol...
T
What town are you in you might have bought it from me!
What kinds of things do customers say that are lies?
As Tjw says - they just do their job and they do it well...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
1 - Get a new driveway. Lord knows I need it
2 - Pay down my HELOC which is getting pricey
3 - Put it into my kid's college savings account so that it will grow to 20 grand by the time it's needed. That should cover books for one semester by then
4 - Go back to Hawaii
5 - Sock it away for some serious performance upgrades once I buy the car in 6 months.
I'm not talking about a car like a Z06. The rarity and performance results in it's demand/supply curve. Rather if we're talking a Magnum, GTO, Camaro or Mustang GT, being the first one to have one with a blower will be a much bigger thrill than just being the first one to have one.
1) Another dealer promosed the same car to me at the same price and gave me 3,000 more for my trade. ( especially when I am at an invoice deal or less, just not possible)
2)Negotitating a price and when they come back for delivery say " didnt you say you would throw in floor mats, splash guards etc..."
3)My dad, brother-in-law, cousin etc... told me they can buy the exact same car for thousands less.
4) My trade in is in showroom condition just give me a value for it over the phone and " I wont hold you to it"
5) My trade in has never been wrecked, damaged, painted etc.
6) There is nothinbg wrong with my car ( after the appraiser and I have to walk back from a test drive because it was over heating.)
You know its not so much the lies as it si the insult to my intelligence.
even with the rebate and our deal at nothing, we were only about 5500-6k off sticker...
-thene
The buyer could be telling the truth. There are people that insist that they can get the best deal on everything. I just had some heat work done on my house. My best estimate was $3800 and a neighbor insisted that he could get it done for $1500. I asked and waited a couple of weeks but he never came up with a phone number.
FWIW, I paid sticker on my Yaris as well, like tjw1308. Wasn't worth it to grind for a few hundred bucks - I spent that time arguing over my trade-in. :P I'm a lousy negotiator but I figure that puts me smack dab in the middle of the pack between those who can wring out every last cent and those who buy everything in F&I, finance at some ridiculous rate and throw in an upside down balance to a loan.
Say you want a Supreme X-mobile that normally sells for $30,000 and have a 4 year old non-Supreme X-mobile to trade. You determine from your research that the dealer has $3,000 between Invoice and MSRP. You also research your trade in value to be $17,000. In the ideal buyers world would you haggle over the discount and the trade in or would you focus on the difference of "your trade and $10,000 or something close to $10,000"?
He doesn't make much on them, that way.... but, he has very loyal customers..
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Yeah I hear you, buy an overpriced guitar and get a free VW.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Fact is, we all know what the numbers are. They're posted here and elsewhere.
Said it before...say it again....if you buy from soneone you trust, and you do your research, my guess is there's not going to be a few hundred difference between what any of us can buy a car for. The mere fact that we're all here discussing this shows that we at least have a passing knowledge of what any car, any brand, any model will sell for....in our area.
Some choose to make an offer based on our research and observations (market conditions, stock levels, etc). It's either accepted, bumped or rejected. The buyer shooses whether to walk on those paramters, or to get bumped, or to negotiate further.
Personally, I'm confident in my research and my numbers. I don't get insulted if my number is rejected. If I'm that far off on my number that it's not accepted, it just means I need to go back and do more research....since some parameter I thought was right, really wasn't right.
They declined my offer.
I went to another dealer, offered $13750 plus the old car, and they took it.
Agree with you on new cars.
Disagree with you on used car where the prices are generally more elastic. However, paying more for a better condition car may be better in the long run.
In either case, the more informed you are, the less you generally pay.
How else are we buyers supposed to know that an offer has been refused?
Wait a minute, aren't you the guy that left the biz for a position in Waste Management (post 4391) and they have already given you a day off!
See, it's getting better for you already. You might even have to change your handle.
Happy painting and don't get any on yourself,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Why?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
And I got plenty on myself.....my nose hairs are white. Sucks.
I'm laughing my [non-permissible content removed] off at the comment by bobst, Dino.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It WAS a joke wasn't it?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
My laughter has quickly turned to into tears. Bobst is apparently a master negotiator and user of his time. Wow!
There, I took the bait.
(I have also never chased anyone. It's a car deal, not a matter of life or death.)
I chased a guy down once, but only after he looked me straight in the eye and said something I wouldnt dare repeat here. Sales manager beat me to him and physically escorted him to his car.
Not because of a car deal, hehe.
With our last three car purchases, they didn't accept our offer until we walked out.
With our last purchase, we had left the showroom and were getting in our car when the salesman came out and told us our offer was accepted.
That's why a buyer only should make one offer on each visit to the dealer.
See, life is very simple when you think logically.
I'll second that. Why put yourself thru the hassle of finding another dealership, another salesperson, and another car with the color, options and miles you are looking for? My times worth to much to be going thru all of that a second, third, or fourth time.
bobst says he didn't know his offer was refused until he got in his car and drove away. But, he could very well have picked up the phone later that day and counter offered. Salespeople do it all the time.
He likes driving from store to store and presenting drop dead take it or leave it offers.
He talks about being "logical" but to me, since he plans to raise his offer at the next store, why not just raise it at the store he is at already?
Makes no sense to me.
My offer of above was accepted...but...then they offered me $10,000 tade-in. I said "No thanks and walked out to get in my car. The salesman rushed out and offered $10,500.00. I said "forget it". He then said, "I will be right back, don't leave". He came back within two minutes with $11,00.00 offer. I started up my engine and said, "I am leaving' He said I will be right back. To make this long story shorter, this went on for "THREE" more bumps to finally $12,500.00. I said "SOLD".
Went back inside, signed all the papers )their normal $799.00 DOC.FEE was "preprinted" on the form and they in turn just added the $799.00 to the $12,550 (making the trade $13,299.00).. offer to NEGATE the $799.00 FEE.
Several days later the salesman called me to make sure that when I got the Chrysler Survey I would give him an "excellent" rateing. I told him that he was AOK but that I sure wouldn't give the "OVERALL EXPERIENCE" and "excellent" and that they should change their sales approach.
Of course, I guess most sales are a series of better offers on the trade-in (maybe and maybe not????)
In your experience, you make an offer and then leave. If it's accepted in the parking lot, then you win. If it's not, then you move onto the next dealership for $150. :confuse:
Mmkay. I think Isell covered my thoughts on this.
By the way, what part of the country are you buying in? To my knowledge, these are car buying and selling tactics that were used a long time ago. Perhaps some parts of the country are still catching up.
See, life is very simple when you think logically.
:confuse:
Sidenote: What would you do if someone immediately accepted your offer? Would you tell the salesperson you needed to think about it and go sit in your car? And then leave?
It was a matter of life and death. His.
I'd tell them to start writing it up.
Why else would I be at the dealership?
That's a very easy decision to make.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm sure if somebody walks into your dealership and pays the price that is printed on the car window you wouldn't think to charge him extra just because he thinks MSRP is a good price - wouldn't you?
She and a friend went over one afternoon and tried to work out the deal. She called me and said they were somewhat apart on making the deal...maybe $800-1000. I forget now since it has probably been a little over a year. I told her that was a little too much and she said okay, they were going to leave and go back home then. Well, about 45 minutes later she called and said they were waiting on the paperwork to be completed. She got in the car and was cranking up to leave when the sales guy came out the front door and said they had decided to accept the offer.
So, to do business this way, you just have to be ready to walk...be nice about it, but stick to your guns. Eventually you will make the right offer and make a deal, might have to adjust a little.
Why? He is right, the only way to know if the deal has really been rejected is to see if they let you drive away. If he would have raised his price at that first dealer it could very well have been a case of the dealer saying to the first offer "Hey thats an acceptable price but lets reject it and get him to offer more". Its basic negotiation strategy always reject the first offer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D