Stories from the Sales Frontlines

madmanmoo

Snakeweasel,

You are probably the most mature wise person I have ever spoken with. Let me bask in your glory. You are obviously a cut above the rest of us working stiffs who sometimes have bad days. Please, swami, let me indulge in your knowledge. Someday I hope to be enlightened. Until then, I can only whine.

Moo

madmanmoo

Jmonroe,

I believe you are second only in wiseness to Snakeweasel. Thanks for your input. It has been extremely enlightening. I have now moved onto a business in waste management. Low pay, but boy there ain't no stress.

Moo

Kirstie_H

Folks, this discussion IS primarily for salespeople to tell their stories. We have 100s of consumer-focused discussions, and a lot of our members who are salespeople participate in those, and they get beaten up plenty.

Friendly banter and legitimate questions are fine, but snide remarks, personal comments, and outright accusations aren't welcome in the Forums. If you want to talk about negative behavior by salespeople, there are tons of discussions for that. Let me know if you need directions to any of them, but some comments are being removed without notice.

isellhondas

Notice how most of the veterans have left?

I think we get tired of telling stories only to be responded to with nasty retorts.

After awhile, the topic get's shut down, people lose interest and go away.

snakeweasel

If I overstepped my bounds I sincerely apologize. While I read this topic I rarely (or used to rarely) partake in it. And then its usually (or was usually) to give reference from the other side of the table.

Again if I overstepped myself you have my apology.

Kirstie_H

Merci beaucoup - but it's never one member, and perhaps I/we should've stepped in awhile ago. If it were you specifically, you'd have received a patented Nastgram2006™ with optional BanThreat.

We'll all just go forward from here :shades:

bigdveedubgirl

They are a needle in a haystack. At our store we have a summer employee who is a student at SMU. He does pretty well and he wants to own a dealership someday.

If you are a student it is a very difficult business to be in while doing your studies. Your hours are not always engraved in stone and psycologically you have to give 100% to be successful. Also, salespeople who are there 50-75 hours a week really do not take well to someone who comes in 20 hours a week. Just my 2 cents

jlawrence01

Merci beaucoup - but it's never one member, and perhaps I/we should've stepped in awhile ago. If it were you specifically, you'd have received a patented Nastgram2006™ with optional BanThreat.

And if I may add, they are always very well written ...

bigdveedubgirl

I have not used this forum to vent in a very long time......

I had a client walk in last saturday, interested in our 2007 A6. It was one of only two in the city with these options. I asked 3 times for the client to drive the car to makes sure they liked in and they said they already did. Fine. They said flat out that they were looking for the best deal and had been to other 2 dealers. We were the farthest one out so to me either they were being unreasonable in there wants or they were not treated right.

We worked a payment difference, of 32k with there trade at a minimum profit. They had to think about it and would get back to me. I took a deposit on the car. Monday I worked payments on the car and said it was including tt&l. I made a mistake and said that the TTL was included in the 32k. But the payments were including ttl. I apologized profusely.And they talked to my salesmanager, and they seemed fine. Then 2 minutes later they said that they were not doing the deal, that that we were not a repuable dealer, and that they were going to go on the radio and blast us. Come to learn later that, My other salesmanager who worked the deal with the customer,said the customer never mentioned tt&l. It is common knowlege unless brought up at the beginning of negotioations, that all prices are plus tax. This whole debacle cause a argument, that was so loud, that the Audi dealership in Louisiana heard it. I was so in trouble for this small mistake that really was not mistake, but anyway...........

My salesmanager, who worked the deal called the customer, and he starts talking about how we are liars and starting cursing, and saying he was going to protest in front of our dealership. My salesmanager starts yelling to and it got pretty ugly.(Audi stores are pretty serene quiet places where people rarely raise their voices) So they hang up on each other. Then an hour later he calls my manager back and apologizes and says he will do the deal if we split the difference. Fine its a loss, but its a deal. He said he would call back on a time he was going to come in.

3 hours later, when I was getting 2 other deals put together
The receptionist tells me he calls and says"If they want to sell a car we will be there in a hour" So I scramble get the car in detail and get it ready for them. They come in and say they want to drive the car first. SO we go on this 45 test drive, and they talk and then the wife says" I dont like the gas pedal on this car I have to think about it"

So all this yelling screaming and me almost quitting my job to be a underwater basket weaver in the Bahamas, could of been avoided if they FREAKIN DROVE THE CAR FIRST!!!

So to all who want talk numbers first. Drive the car and save everyone some time.

madmanmoo

Thank goodness you had a couple of other deals going. You must have had the patience of a saint to put up with those folks.

"I dont like the gas pedal on this car I have to think about it"

Btw, best quote ever!

Hang in there. Moo

carhag2000

So all this yelling screaming and me almost quitting my job to be a underwater basket weaver in the Bahamas, could of been avoided if they FREAKIN DROVE THE CAR FIRST!!!

So to all who want talk numbers first. Drive the car and save everyone some time

This is why my dealership wont let me have a firearm in my car. When this happens to me I go into super follow up/prospecting mode. I call at least once or twice a day every day to see if they are ready to take the car. Not really trying to effect a sell but pestering these people until they submit.

isellhondas

You are so much better off WITHOUT this customer!

In any business there always just a few customers you simply don't want. Not worth the stress and a bad survey.

bigdveedubgirl

Ya I know, but the Audi world is a small world, and all we need is this Yayhoo getting on some consumer advocate radio show and spouting off things that are not even true. Our owner is the most seen Audi owner in the south (commercials, print, charity,ect....) his biggest pet peeve is bad press. But he did give us the okay to give this guy the heave ho. Plus they will not take it to us for service thank goodness. They live on the other side of DFW.

madmanmoo

Bigd,

Tell me if you agree with me or not, but I think folks like this are typically self apparent.

Remember the lady who found a finger in her chili at Wendy's? Turns out she had been trying these different scams with a ton of other folks as well. No lawsuit came up, Wendy's still sells lots of Chili, and there is one person out there who doesn't have a finger....

I hope that if these people complaine that people will see through the disguise. This is just a case of an unhappy couple taking out their aggressions on their latest target. It's not unusual to see them complaining.

Some folks just aren't happy unless their unhappy.

snakeweasel

I hope that if these people complaine that people will see through the disguise.

Well first off if this is a large metro area the vast majority of the people won't hear about it. Secondly most people take the occasional complaint with a grain of salt, especially if its from someone they don't know.

gasman1

Some folks just aren't happy unless their unhappy.

You sure said a mouth full of truth with that one. While reading Big Vee Dub's posting I kept thinking that it shouldn't be illegal to shoot idiots. I'm in the propane business and have a few cusotmers just like them. I guess every business has them. What a shame... Just file them in the OT (oxygen thief) category.

carhag2000

Some folks just aren't happy unless their unhappy

I had an older friend who was a wealth of sayings and logic. He always used to tell me, " some people would complain if you hung em with a new rope."

snakeweasel

While reading Big Vee Dub's posting I kept thinking that it shouldn't be illegal to shoot idiots.

If it wasn't we all would be shot at some point in time.

gasman1

madmanmoo

I recently worked with an individual who was so aggressive that he would throw people into bushes who were going for the ups that he wanted. He would push folks out of the way when trying to get a phone-up. He duct taped one salesman (with the help of other guys at the dealership) and placed him in the back of a pickup truck. They drove around with him taped to that chair in the back of the truck for a mile or so and then hosed him down with water and dumped him in the woods near the dealership. Why? I'm not sure. But it was pretty hysterical. This salesperson is a psychopath.... I probably have 100 stories surrounding things that he did. Anyone else know someone like thaT?

-Moo

dino001

How long did it take for managers to learn about it and how long did it take them to fire him. Or - didn't they?

snakeweasel

Yeah I once worked with someone like that. The owner knew that this person was aggressive and tried to talk to her about it. It went to far when she started stealing my clients I finally went to the owner and said enough is enough, its either her or me. The next day he fired her.

He duct taped one salesman (with the help of other guys at the dealership) and placed him in the back of a pickup truck. They drove around with him taped to that chair in the back of the truck for a mile or so and then hosed him down with water and dumped him in the woods near the dealership.

I hope everyone involved was fired after that. You have assault, battery, false imprisonment and infliction of emotional duress. And I am sure a smart lawyer would be able to find a few more torts in that.

madmanmoo

Depends on which store he's worked at. Everyone seems to know everyone and he's been bounced from store to store and returned to work at several of the stores again after getting fired. Crazy industry, but I think he's sufficiently worn out his welcome at 2 stores that I know of. Remember though, there are a ton of dealerships in Atlanta, he'll always have a job.

madmanmoo

I hope everyone involved was fired after that. You have assault, battery, false imprisonment and infliction of emotional duress. And I am sure a smart lawyer would be able to find a few more torts in that.

This is what is so unbelievable about the industry. Some stores (normally family owned), will put up with and even encourage this type of behavior. Old school stuff where an owner might think the aggression is a good thing. Don't get me wrong, it was very funny, but it should have never happened. Because it was in fun at that time, but compile that with all the other things he had his hand in... it starts to add up. You realize you've got a psychopath on your hands.

I watched one day as the receptionist paged new car sales to get a phone-up. He and another salesman ran to get to the closest phone. He is 6'4", 220 lbs. The other salesman is 5' 9", 160 lbs. They shove each other to get the phone-up. While they scuffle, I answer. I start to get information from the guy who called. Everything seemed to be calm. Psycho stood near the door with back against the wall.

All of a sudden, the little streaks out from the right side and shoves Psycho with all his might. Psycho hits the wall and then decides to wrestle little guy to the ground. Psycho eventually has little guy pinned on the floor and is choking him in the middle of the showroom while the receptionist is freaking out and screaming. Little guy has a bloody nose and goes to the bathroom. Psycho waits on another up.

Can you believe that noone was fired? By the way, this still goes down as one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life. But something should have been done.

There's more.

dino001

Well, if workplace violence is ever funny to you, we must be born on different planets.

jipster

Sounds like a guy I'd like to have on my sales force... highly competitive(eliminates the competition), quirky sense of humor(at the expense of others), and ability to improvise and adapt(with people he has taken hostage of that is). I'm surprised he hasn't been promoted to general manager yet.

Sounds like he is one of those dudes who inhales to much helium when putting up those goofy balloons on dealership lots. :sick:

snakeweasel

Well its all fun and games until the dealership gets hit with a multi million dollar lawsuit. Thats what gets me on the business side, that you open yourself up to a massive liability if your the owner and this rough housing goes overboard.

madmanmoo

There are a huge number of things that are funny to me. Workplace violence is just one of them. :P

Just enjoy the story, Dino.

madmanmoo

LOL!

bigdveedubgirl

Already sold a car today! (yay!) So I havent had too much time to deal with the crazies, but they called today and said that they do not want that car, and they want another one because the throttle is too tight. Okay I researched "tight gas pedal on A6." nothing, I have my service manager driving it....seems normal. 2 teks have drove it. Normal. These people are from another planet.

tsgeisel

Sounds like desperate cherry-pickers to me. Waiting all day for that perfect customer, and desperate when nobody has come in... :P

bigdveedubgirl

All in fun, when I worked for VW we used to see cars pull up and I would say "Oh there is Flo, my appointment" and makes sure I was outside first.....Hee Hee.....then occasionaly me and my co-worker would call the front desk and have each other paged on our internal pagers so he would leave the front to get the phone....aw the good ol days.....Audi is very civilized. We fight in hushed tones.

tsgeisel

1) What are your prejudgings on customers who walk onto a lot, rather than drive up?

When I was in my "I've done all I can online" phase, I did most of my shopping at auto rows/malls, so rather than just keep my car (which I wasn't trading) in, say, a Toyota lot while I was looking at, say, a Honda, I'd find street parking, and just walk between dealerships. I'm curious where that sort of behaviour falls.

2) Back when I was doing commissioned sales, I've seen salesmen just drop off mid-conversation with someone, in an effort to talk to someone who looked like an "easier" sale. Has anyone seen this sort of behaviour?

graphicguy

To me, today would be a perfect day to shop for a car. It's a Monday. It's grey outside....looking like it wants to rain. It's chilly.

Just a perfect day when there should be little to no traffic in any car store.

tjw1308

While I do understand customers not wanting to "buy us lobster and steak for a month", lost on me is how they figure by buying the car for invoice less holdback that we are STILL somehow making thousands...

It just doesn't work that way.

My favorite line is the old "I know you guys have to make a profit...". Really? That's a good one. You might as well just offer me below net cost and get it over with.

And please spare me the whole "I'm not like that when I buy a car" bologna... I'D DO IT TOO No blame here, it's just why there is inherent friction. I'm sure you (the fair customer) just offer Edmunds TMV and smile politely

Most salespeople work on 100% commission. It's a tough gig, but it's ultimately a choice we all made at one time or another (again, no blame for our own life decisions). But we don't villify the community because we have to discount cars. We DO get villified for trying to make as much as possible. I'm sorry, but don't try and paint it as a two way street.

T

gsemike

"He duct taped one salesman (with the help of other guys at the dealership) and placed him in the back of a pickup truck. They drove around with him taped to that chair in the back of the truck for a mile or so and then hosed him down with water and dumped him in the woods near the dealership"

What is hysterical about that? How could the guy balance himself duct taped to a chair in the back of a pickup? If he would have tumbled over, he could have been killed or paralyzed. And then they spray him with water??? If I would have worked with this guy I would have either beat the crap out of him or had him arrested.

I'd have to question the judgement of anyone that finds that "hysterical"

tjw1308

1) What are your prejudgings on customers who walk onto a lot, rather than drive up?

All depends on how busy we are. Usually I'll talk to ANYONE. If it's a super busy day, everyone becomes guilty of "Cherry Picking" to some extent, and I think a walk-up is slightly less desireable (everyone has a story though lol).

2) Back when I was doing commissioned sales, I've seen salesmen just drop off mid-conversation with someone, in an effort to talk to someone who looked like an "easier" sale. Has anyone seen this sort of behaviour?

All the time. Called a lot-drop. I like to pick them up, because from time to time they'll buy just out of spite :P

T

dglozman

Its all supply and demand. If you are selling Fords for example you will be happy to sell the car for invoice, less holdback, less rebates, less discount for being a student, less military rebates, less third uncle worked for Ford 20 years ago special discount, less... you get the picture.

--"And please spare me the whole I'm not like that when I buy a car" bologna... "-- and you please spare me - we never charge above MSRP for a new hot model" So far not one salesperson here admitted that. I remember when I was shopping for new Honda Odyssey 5 years ago, I visited 3 dealerships in my area and all wanted at least extra $1000 above MSRP. So next time I feel perfectly fine when a car I'm looking is not in demand to offer "invoice less holdback". And you know what there is a big chance this offer will be accepted!

So yes it is a two way street...

madmanmoo

I'd have to question the judgement of anyone that finds that "hysterical"

I recently ate a baby. I wonder if that was poor judgement as well. :confuse:

isellhondas

I wouldn't work in a store like that for a day!

This is where the sterotypes come from.

gsemike

You sell cars so you're able to relate to most people??? :confuse

Are you able to turn of this madmanmoo persona when you need to?

dino001

figure by buying the car for invoice less holdback that we are STILL somehow making thousands...

How about:
1. Trade $2000 below its market value
2. Bloated interest rate
3. Nice $799 dealer fee?
4. Nice "protection package" ($50 improvements and services priced at $699)
5. Extended warranty

A lot of ways to make people believe they paid "below invoice" and have thousands coming.

You may occasionally face is a guy with no trade, refusing mop&glo, refusing dealer fee and still attempting to get the car below invoice. Sometimes they simply believe that there is still money somewhere floating, other just think the only fair profit is no profit.

jmonroe

...lost on me is how they figure by buying the car for invoice less holdback that we are STILL somehow making thousands...

The people that post here are trying to get the deal you just described and we know at that point you are not making thousands of dollars probably just hundreds, which is what we are shooting for. When both sides are happy, a deal is made. It's just that different people are satisfied with different deals. None that post here are satisfied when the dealer makes thousands.

I'm sure you (the fair customer) just offer Edmunds TMV and smile politely

The posters here know that Edmunds TMV is the AVERAGE price and since we know that and since we think we are better negotiators than the average guy we try to do better than the AVERAGE guy.

We DO get villified for trying to make as much as possible.

I wouldn't say that you are villified for trying this, it's just that most buyers either here on Edmunds or the AVERAGE off the street buyer are aware of this and aren't willing to go along with it. Hence, the negotiating battle.

I'm sorry, but don't try and paint it as a two way street.

It is absolutely a two way street, you want to make a killing and we don't want you to. Isn't that two ways?

jmonroe

jmonroe

I wouldn't work in a store like that for a day!

This is where the sterotypes come from.

Thank you Isell.

This is definitely what you and the other real salesman in your biz have to contend with.

If I worked at a place like this, I know very well I wouldn't come on this board and admit it.

jmonroe

mazda6iguy

What's up with the Volkswagen guitar?!?

gasman1

I'd have to question the judgement of anyone that finds that "hysterical"

I recently ate a baby. I wonder if that was poor judgement as well

YES! You could've asked if anyone thought this funny... Then the answer would be NO.

isellhondas

With that "baby" comment.

tidester

With that "baby" comment.

I definitely think we've made a detour from sales frontline stories. Humor often loses something in the translation to posting.

tidester, host

gasman1

Sorry if it was me that lost you. I was responding to madman's baby comment.

tjw1308

Never said we didn't charge over MSRP for hot products. Did I? As I recall, I went out on a limb by saying I want EVERY penny possible lol... I will never apologize for wanting as much profit as I can get, just like you won't be apologizing for beating someone's brains in on price.

If you really understand supply and demand, what's the point in judging a dealership for more making profit on an in-demand product? That's the very NATURE of supply and demand.

In other topics, I've mentioned that if people don't want to pay for it, DON'T. My dealership doesn't allow guns to the head. I think most people who buy cars are adult enough to say no, even if the big bad salesman hypnotizes them with his superior skill .

Once people stop PAYING for Market Adjustments (over MSRP), dealerships stop doing it. But why on Earth WOULD we stop when we still get it? It's the same logic as asking for a discount... You ask because you can.

And if I did work for Ford (I don't), why would I be HAPPY having to beg someone to take my car/truck? If it's that worthless to you now, imagine how I'm going to look at it when you try and trade it in :P

I'd say most people have a pretty good idea of trade value (albeit an inflated one...) and APR before they come visit us. Are we ALWAYS low on trades? Yup. It's the nature of the transaction. Even I thought my car was worth more when I traded it in. It wasn't, but I was comfortable with the deal. If you are uncomfortable, LEAVE. It's only a good deal if you think it is, and if you don't, at least have the fortitude to say NO.

It is most definitely a one-way street. Tell me how many expose's you've seen on TV regarding customers taking advantage of dealerships??? Trading in cars with problems not apparent in a 5 minute appraisal (mechanical, flood, wreck, or otherwise) is one that comes to mind.

Are customers ever held accountable for "scamming" a poor, honest, unsuspecting dealer ??? Of course not. They may even get a pat on the back because we "deserve" it...

It's a one-way street. Not looking for sympathy, but it is.

T