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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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  • roundtriproundtrip Member Posts: 105
    I used to be embarrassed when my spouse tried to negotiate everything. I quit that when I realized that it actually worked!
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    ...so Go Pound Salt if you didn't like it.

    jip,

    That's not very nice talk, given that those Kirby vacuum cleaners really suck.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I really don't think we need to revisit Kirby! :)

    tidester, host
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,316
    In spite of what my "since" date says in my profile, I've been around since I think, 1997.

    Mine says April 13, 2001 as well... If memory serves, that's the date Edmunds started keeping statistics, so even if you were active earlier, it still shows that date.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    I have to agree with you audi8q...A few years ago I was looking for a new SUV and shopped a Ford Escape against a Saturn Vue (both the V6 models)loaded) and the difference in my trade-in was $1500.00. higher at the Saturn dealer. They might have a "set" price...but they actually, usually, give more (or over allow) for the trade (so in essence, they actually "negotiate" in their own way.
    What is your opinion on this statement? (agree or disagree)?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,435
    so I had to skip a few pages..

    couple of things popped into my head:

    - I think last year it was proven that many buyers really will be happy with fixed pricing on cars, assuming they are comfortable that it really is the "best" price, and probably more important, that they can't go to the next dealer over and do better.

    I am thinking, of course, of the infamous "Employee pricing for everyone" deal

    - I tend to shop a lot, being a chronic buyer and all, but I don't do it at a busy time when I would be interfering with other business. I can't count how many times I have stopped at a dealer at, say, 10:30 on a Tuesday (real early lunch) and been the only customer near the place, and often outnumbered 3-1 by salespeople. Heck, I have had some practically force me to tke a test drive becasue they are bored and feel like getting out of the building for a while!

    - and finally, the only brand's dealers that I have consistantly been ignored at are Chevy dealers. No idea why, but it seems that every time I stopped into a Chevy place over the last 20 years, it seemed like I forgot to take off my cloak of invisibility. Every place else I get greeted like a long-lost brother.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    If I can find this car and bring it in he will have purchased a total of 350,000 dollars worth of vehicles from me since April.

    Is he shipping these Rovers to some other country????? ;)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Nope he keeps them all. We do get a lot of people wanting to buy and export them since it is much cheaper to buy one in the US then any other country.

    We never sell any rovers to these exporters though as it is against our franchise agreement.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    We never sell any rovers to these exporters though...

    As far as you know. Or do you know that every vehicle you sell comes back for service until it is in an accident or is scrapped?

    Exporters are also interested in exporting your previously cherished vehicles. Is that against your franchise agreement too, or does it just apply to new vehicles?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    In spite of what my "since" date says in my profile, I've been around since I think, 1997.

    Mine says April 13, 2001 as well... If memory serves, that's the date Edmunds started keeping statistics, so even if you were active earlier, it still shows that date.

    Actually, that's the date we moved from WELL Engaged to Web Crossing. It's too bad the stats from WE could not come with us.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Ahh, "Well Engaged", the good old days! It was the forum software that ran so well but was no longer supported. The outcry at the approaching change was at least as great at the time as it is to the current forum alterations. At least there was an incontrovertible reason for the change then though.

    Isell is one of the few remaining players from that time (apart from some of our hosts). We've also lost a few great forums since then. They just became too popular! ;)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,435
    I liked that software too. It ruined me for more "modern" discussion groups!

    Not sure when I joined, but it was before I bought my 1998 Quest in Dec., 1997, so it's at least 9 years now!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    We never sell any rovers to these exporters though as it is against our franchise agreement.

    My wife's MB had papers that we had to sign saying it would never leave the country.

    I like Rovers a lot. Just concerned with gas mileage and the repair record. What would you say to me?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    So that's what happened.

    So,I lost my senority, probably some vacation pay and other benefits no doubt in the process? ;)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    My wife's MB had papers that we had to sign saying it would never leave the country.

    Wow, judging by your profile you can be out of the country in under and hour and a half. I can see not exporting it in a reasonable time frame but not taking out of the country at all? I mean for you the US is really not that far and its not unreasonable for you to take the occasional trip there. Why can't you take that car with you?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Export agreements in regard to the technology on the car. For use the navigation systems that are standard on nearly all of our cars are restricted technology.

    They cannot be exported to many countries because with the dedicated off-road nav system you can punch in Latitude and longitude coordinates into the computer and it will direct you there.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Isell,

    Can you please explain exactly what you're trying to say here? For whatever reason, I'm missing the point.

    Thanks,

    moo
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    This is very much a cultural concept. In your opinion as a middle American yes it may be true that negotiating is a pain in the butt. In other areas negotiating is a form of communication, testing, and bonding. It's as naturally a part of some cultures as breathing. No negotiating no sale.

    Who are your customers? In some markets it may make perfect sense to make an auto purchase similar to buying from LLBean. In other markets the doors would have cobwebs from lack of traffic.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I think some dealerships, would really benefit by just offering a no questions asked test drive. I am curious to know what some cars are like, but I don't want to go through the hassle of explaining my life to a salesperson or a salesperson giving me a million facts when I might not even like driving the car.

    The flip side to this is that if people are not greeted and assisted along in their decision making, it THEY who become insulted. 'Aren't I good enough to have some attention at all? Why do I have to wander around this foreign enviroment with no direction or assistance?'

    I'd estimate that those wanting, needing, expecting prompt attention is about 9/1 over those truly wanting to 'be left alone'.

    If someone came to look at your house that you had on the market and you just left the door open and ignored them, while watching Law and Order, while they wandered about do you think that you'd leave a good impression. Not likely.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Email me and I'll tell you. It's in my profile.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Why can't you take that car with you?

    Sorry, can't sell the car to someone outside the country is what I meant to say. Or can't be exported. We can drive to the U.S. as long as we own it and aren't selling it.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    The flip side to this is that if people are not greeted and assisted along in their decision making, it THEY who become insulted.

    You are right, customers should be greeted and probably ask them a welcoming question. My sales experience says a "yes" or "no" question is not good, doesn't engage the potential customer. Maybe a "hello, what kind of car did you have in mind?" although sounding a bit stilted could start a conversation. I'm not sure, what do you or other sales people like to start with?

    I do agree a customer should be greeted and offered help if needed. I just don't like to be followed around and hounded if I am in the initial stage of comparing various cars. For example I was curious about sitting in a new Aura and was actually impressed with the interior especially, and I just wanted to sit in it but the salesman was peppering me with facts about horsepower, quotes from Motor Trend, lease payments (though I wouldn't be leasing), miles-per-gallon etc. and I just wanted to see if I even like the car. Maybe "selling" doesn't work unless the salesperson really goes after the prospective customer?

    One theory I have is people want a new car, go to the dealership just looking, but they really want to be convinced that they need a new car and convinced that the one they are looking at is the one. So, then it would follow the serious potential buyer might need more working on.

    I agree, it wouldn't be good to ignore customers, and I have been ignored and walked away, but not too good to overdo it either. I will say though, and you can think about this, when I bought my current car, I sat in it, loved the feel of it, and then had to find a salesperson to show me the rest. I went for a "no pressure" test drive, liked it and bought it! Guess that is unusual! :confuse:

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    How is that restricted technology? IIRC the only restricted GPS technology is military use technology which the Rovers do not have. As far as I know the technology available in your nav systems is available everywhere.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    So does that mean if you buy the car then 5 years later you move to the US you would have to sell the car?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    So does that mean if you buy the car then 5 years later you move to the US you would have to sell the car?

    That would be interesting to know. I'd have to look at the form again, but I think in that case if it stays in your posession you can probably take it with you, anywhere in the world I would guess.

    I think the intent is that you can't export the car to be sold in another country where it could cost a lot more. In fact MB dealers here aren't even supposed to sell outside their territory. We went shopping around for her car and if we go out of town we are told the dealer can't sell to us. We have to buy from the nearest dealer. That cuts down on some haggling right there. Still some haggling because of the trade in, and how much the dealer will come down to make the sale. Occassionally, a dealer outside the area would try for the sale anyway. I don't know how head office deals with that.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Why not tell us all? I've been around almost as long as you have, and maybe I'm missing the obvious, but I have no idea what you are implying either. And I'm very curious! :)
  • mrrk47mrrk47 Member Posts: 104
    What is the best way to get hired as a part -time salesperson at a dealership. I've tried the internet..what are they looking for?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    O.K.

    For one thing, in the past, talking about "cherry picking" customers has come close to crossing the "politically correct" line.

    Also, our customers read these forums and sometimes they can put the pieces together and figure out who we are.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Highly doubtful any store would hire a part-timer.

    Find a family owned store with a good reputation and long term employees and walk in and apply.

    They are looking for friendly, smart people who have a strong work ethic just like any company.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Also, our cutomers read these forums and sometimes they can put pieces together and figure out who we are.

    LOL... you have your name, city, state, e-mail address and dealership tie-in included in your profile. Even myself and jmonroe can put the "pieces together" on that one.

    I think as long as one doesn't indicate what city they live in, they should be able to maintain their anonymity.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I have had a couple of people figure out where I work just based off my postings and some pictures I have put up.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    What "dealership tie in"? No photos either nor have I ever encouraged anyone here to contact me.

    I'm in the phone book too.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Yeah I think I figured you out too (as to which dealership) But with the scarcity of Rover its a little easier than Honda. I hate to try to guess how many Honda dealerships are within an hour of me.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Brandon, I guess that is your business e-mail address you have in your profile. So, all anyone would have to do is e-mail you inquiring about Land Rovers to find out where you work? Why bother with trying to figure it out by postings and pictures... not sure why anyone would want to.

    All I'm saying is with just a tiny bit of common sense no one will know where you work... unless you want them to. You and isell never post anything anti-dealership or business model, so you guys don't have much to worry about when submitting posts.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I don't know why they wouldn't just email but a couple of people have done just that.
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    :) I'm going to chime in and applaud this post.

    We often forget that even it's it's nicest form, buying a car is an conflict laden process. Even the easiest customers have SOME point where they will say no, at least somewhere in the process.

    The "frustration" some salespeople vent on these boards is only because, unlike the consumer who buys on average a car every 3-4 years or so, we talk to literally dozens of car "buyers" a month, all with different chips on their shoulders. Even after 7 years, the occasional "customer" frustrates me... thinking they know more about our jobs than we do. They don't. It's frustrating.

    "Cherry Picking" or "Pre-Qualifying" works sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't. Sales is a lot like gambling.

    We aren't the Red Cross. We WANT to make as MUCH $$$ as possible. There, I said it. We are villanized for wanting to make profit. It's a load, and it's frustrating.

    There is inherent conflict in negotiation. Even if some customers make it less than others.

    There is nothing politically incorrect about "Cherry Picking". If a salesman doesn't want to deal with you, would you really want to deal with him? Didn't think so.

    I'll take ya! :P

    T
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Even myself and jmonroe can put the "pieces together" on that one.

    Da, if that's anything like putting a puzzle together, count me out; far too technical for my feeble mind.

    Please, lets just stay with the easy stuff, like car negotiating.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • neile457neile457 Member Posts: 65
    The "frustration" some salespeople vent on these boards is only because, unlike the consumer who buys on average a car every 3-4 years or so, we talk to literally dozens of car "buyers" a month, all with different chips on their shoulders. Even after 7 years, the occasional "customer" frustrates me... thinking they know more about our jobs than we do. They don't. It's frustrating

    I disagree, I've bought plenty of cars, where I know a lot more than the salesman. In fact, I don't think I've dealt with any salesman that has known more about the car I'm buying, and most of the cars on their lot.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    We aren't the Red Cross. We WANT to make as MUCH $$$ as possible. There, I said it.

    I’m glad you said it and all of us here understand this. That’s why we know we have to negotiate, sometimes, rather hard. This brings me to your next statement below.

    We are villanized for wanting to make profit.

    There is a BIG difference between “making a profit” and “We WANT to make as MUCH $$$ as possible”. For me, that line is so broad it’s like an ocean. I can’t see across it. All that us car buyers are trying to do is make the line thin, the thinner the better. In fact, we’re trying to make it razor thin and that’s where the hard line (no pun intended) negotiating begins.

    I’m sure you like steak and lobster as much I do. It’s just that I don’t want to be the one to buy it for you and your family for a month.

    From what I’ve just said, you probably think I’m a mean guy but I’m really not.

    Actually, I’m a fair guy.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    We aren't the Red Cross. We WANT to make as MUCH $$$ as possible. There, I said it. We are villanized for wanting to make profit. It's a load, and it's frustrating.

    Ok thats fair but as a buyer I want to pay as little as possible. Yet there are salesmen that villanize customers for that (some on these forums have done so).

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    Sears will negotiate somewhat and so will Lowes on appliances/large ticket items. Best Buy typically is stocked with kids and they have no concept and don't care about sales beyond that they have a check while living in Daddy's home and can get a discount of BestBuy stuff for themselves and their friends. Best Buy gets me best prices at other electonics stores by price match, etc.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    I like your attitude about customers who are wanting a low purchase price. You aren't negative; you state that you yourself emphasize with them.

    I understand after reading some of the posts why some salesmen have been so disconnected when I have shopped in the past. They want a quick chance to give a "no" and move you out so they can get back to the coffee pot/smoke corner. The attitude was a turn off.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Well put, Tjw1308.

    Finally there is some feedback from a 'salesman'. I just joined this board recently, but I find it very amusing to see the folks on the sideline telling us how we should do our job. An extreme analogy, some Vietnam veterans are sitting around talking about their experiences in the war and some kids stop by and tell them they did it all wrong. Then they proceed to tell everyone what war is really like.

    I don't know why, but there are folks who just plain don't like salesman on here either. Every salesman is different and many times, you'll find that they are pretty green. Typically, that will be at a store with poor management and sometimes high volume. Or you'll find a store with folks who have been in the business a long time and are very knowledgeable about their product. You'll get it all. But all of us are here to make money. The customer wants to save money. Ok..... what's groundbreaking about this? I just don't get the posts with hurt feelings in them because the salesman wants to make money.

    We will only make as much money as you'll let us. :P Nothing personal. Thanks for your business. Enjoy the ride!

    I wish we could actually tell stories from the frontlines without some benchwarmers whining and generalizing about the entire industry. You folks who aren't in the industry... relax and let us tell our stories. The stories are something to laugh about, think about, learn from.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    well said madman, well said!

    -thene :)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    An extreme analogy,

    I think that is a bad analogy as the non sales professionals here know the industry from the other side. They may not know every little thing about selling cars but they are on the other side of the desk in buying cars. I would think that listening to customers and how they like to be treated would help at least some sales professionals.

    I would think replacing "kids" in your analogy with "North Vietamise Army members" would be a much better analogy.

    I just don't get the posts with hurt feelings in them because the salesman wants to make money.

    Do you get the posts with hurt feelings in them because the buyer wants to save money? Because I don't.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    And here is one of those individuals. These are stories from the frontlines....... not stories from the customer's perspective. Starting to see the picture?

    I don't run into the "Stories from the Customer's Perspective" forum and start ranting about the stupid offers I've been receiving. Let us tell our stories and voice our frustrations. We do this every day.

    I think that being a CPA must have it's frustrations. Do you use your wife as a forum to voice frustrations about customers who drive you crazy or businesses that don't give you enough time to do all the work you were hired to do?

    Let us vent for pete's sake.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    These are stories from the frontlines....... not stories from the customer's perspective. Starting to see the picture?

    No Actually I don't. This discussion is "Stories from the sales front line" not "salesmen only tell your story". Those who buy cars are on that front line too.

    I think that being a CPA must have it's frustrations. Do you use your wife as a forum to voice frustrations about customers who drive you crazy or businesses that don't give you enough time to do all the work you were hired to do?

    No I don't. I seperate my personal life from my professional life. Same with my wife, we find it makes for a much happier and enjoyable life.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I don't run into the "Stories from the Customer's Perspective" forum and start ranting about the stupid offers I've been receiving. Let us tell our stories and voice our frustrations.

    There used to be a couple of forums like that, one for the salespeople and the other for customers. Customers would always post their point of view on the sales forum, and vice versa, which used to make a few people on both sides mad!

    It was generally very entertaining, with the salespeople mostly supporting each other and the customers doing the same. As with here, no one is 'right' and no one is 'wrong'. We're all entitled to our view, but as it's an open forum you have to expect that the other side will put forward their view as well. Personally, I'm just as likely to post a "Yeah right, what were you thinking!" type response to a salesperson or a customer..........not because I'm a fence sitter, but because I buy things and sell things, and I sometimes feel the frustrations of both sides.

    As for the two forums I mentioned earlier, they were shut down because a few crazies on both sides would get carried away from time to time and lose control of themselves. It's a shame, because those forums had a high participation rate and the salespeople in particular were very interesting individuals. We have a few here still, but not enough!

    So vent all you like, just don't expect everyone to agree with you (which would be boring after a while anyway :) ).
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,748
    just chiming in on this real quick.

    My father introduced me to negotiating on most large items at a VERY young age. This was at the one and only place to shop back then, Sears. So they've always negotiated, to the best of my knowledge.

    The folks at Best Buy will sometimes try the "i don't work on commission, so we don't negotiate" tactic. That would work if they stuck to it. Kind of like Saturn dealers. I HAVE negotiated at Best Buy (and Circuit City). You gotta find the right person. The manager has the authority to adjust prices. To be fair, though, I've only done this on floor models or package deals. For instance, 5 years ago, I bought a floor model widescreen HDTV that was $5k marked down to $3395. I got them to get me to $3k out the door with the 4-year warranty included. When I bought a new computer from them a year or 2 after that, I couldn't negotiate the machine itself, but throw in a printer, scanner, warranty, and some software and they were willing to start wheeling and dealing. My latest one was a nice LCD HDTV for the bedroom. Again, a floor model that I wanted the warranty on. Got them to come down a bit, then I pulled out a 20% off coupon as they were ringing it up. I'm glad the salesperson found it funny rather than annoying. :)

    Short of it is, I negotiate LOTS of stuff. I would say my threshold is probably over $500. Anything less and I just shop for the best advertised price and pay it.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "You folks who aren't in the industry... relax and let us tell our stories"

    OK, tell some.
This discussion has been closed.