Stories from the Sales Frontlines

boomchek

The media now will be quick to jump on any accident involving Toyotas, whether the cause was the accelerator/mats or not. :sick:

boomchek

Problem is on our part, when you're sincerely working your hardest to make the customer like, listen, and believe you and you lose them over $50 it's very draining

The other store closed the deal because:
-the salesperson was a better closer
-the salesperson pushed more of that customer's hot buttons and maybe showed them better value in that vehicle
-that store had the unit the customer wanted
-that store/salesperson appealed to that customer more

I worked at a Honda dealership for almost 4 years and I know exactly what you're talking about. But it's just how business works. Why? Because we (and I'm sure you did too) had deals where someone knew exactly what they wanted and the only work we had to do to get the deal was to match or beat the price by $50 or $100 and to make sure we have that unit in stock in order to get the sale.

Also I think you're too nice sometimes with customers who haven't bought yet. I was like that too but changed my ways. I won't go out of my way until after a customer buys from me.

It's like trying to impress a girl you like (and her telling you you're sweet and get you excited) only to see her go out with some dope who she knew for 10 minutes.

Same as customers you'll spend 2 hours with only to see them buy from a store with a lousy reputation. What takes the cake is when those customers tell you that they had a bad exprience there but bought there anyways. Anyways that's life.

boomchek

Mako, if you want to get out of your Avalon you gotta go out and find what you're looking for yourself. Email or call some dealers, browse their online inventories, send some good pictures of your Avalon and deal over email if you don't want to drive any long distance. Being passive about this and hoping that dealers will flood you with offers won't get you a new car. You have to initiate the process by being as specific as possible to what you want.

This reminds me of an email we got not too long ago. A guy emailed all the Dodge dealers in the city saying this: he's looking for a Dodge Diesel, any configuation ok, less than 100k miles...looking for the "best deal". He also wrote that there are so many that match what he's looking for that he'd just rather receive quotes. :confuse: :confuse:

Wouldn't it be eaiser for him to acutally pick 5 units he likes and working on those instead of receiving up to 100 quotes and offers on units that might not be of anby interest to him (rebuilds, accident history, odd options, whatever).

When a buyer is so general, not many dealers will respond because it seems like the buyer has no clue as to what they want yet, let alone a price or what a best deal is.

hp6130

Does your mechanic have all the tools needed to work on your new BMW. Are you willing to pay him to do work that is covered under warranty. What if he messes something up, and than BMW won't cover it under warranty? Just a few things to consider.

jayrider

A new bmw has 4 years of service and repairs included in the price. You won't have to pay for any indy service until the warranty runs out. Just drive to the dealer and get a loaner.

lrguy44

Good point. I know that we not only have invested in many special tools for our cars, but $25k computers and software to do diagnostic functions. All cars brands now have special tools and computers.

driver100

Driver, Everything is far from here.

Are you in Deliverance country?

I suggest phoning a leasing company or look up car brokers. If they buy a car to lease it, they will gladly buy a car to resell it. They will probably drive out to your place to look at the Avalon. It might work, it might not. But you have a unique situation which might just work for them.
If you can wait until the Avalon is fixed, with this postage sized washer, it might regain some value....if that is all it needs (Toyota says that will do it).
With the bmw you will have roadside assistance, 4 year warranty, loaner cars, and infrequent oil changes. My Jeep needed oil changes every 5000 miles and I would wait in line at Jiffy lube every 4 months or so. With the bmw I take it once a year (actually year and a half since I drive less), and if it is a distance combine it with a day trip. Watch tv, read the newspaper, read a book, have a latte or coffee in their gorgeous waiting room. Walk around the lot. Get a ride on their shuttle to the golf course.
After 4 years go to the independent garage. You will have argueably one of the safest, best handling, most enjoyable cars in the world...to drive and appreciate.

driver100

Ever want to look up an old car you once had, and see a picture and the brochures for that year?
Go to:
old car brochure

isellhondas

Yeah, until it snows!

Been there with my BMW and it wasn't fun!

canadiantoyota

Grinders are not new and they are not exclusive to car dealerships. I have been in sales for 30 years but never in car sales. I have worked retail and owned both retail and wholesale stores. Grinders are nothing new and I imagine that they have been around since the first time someone wanted to trade a bear skin for fire. I also can appreciate that the 10%'ers get under your skin. I have learned that some deals do not make any sense, that is, they do not make sense for me. There is no money in it OR the customer is going to be a gigantic pain in my posterior. Learn to either ignore them and walk away or to give them your best shot and leave it at that.

I no longer worry about the deal that got away after all my hard work. If they are grinding on another dealer then they are leaving me free to deal with a potential customer and giving me the opportunity to make some money.

I also shop for my cars as with anything else... I do my homework and give the dealer one chance to meet it. I don't play the grinding game with them and do not allow them to do it with me. If the price they quote me is adequate, then the deal is done. Likewise, if I am the seller ( I deal in windows and doors), then the customer gets my best price out the door, no games, no room for grinding. Life is too short.

houdini1

The actual percentage of people that come back to the dealership after you give them a price is about 4%.

We have discussed this practice a little bit here. My question for you is what percentage come back if you don't give them a price? My guess would be a big fat 0, so 4% would be better than that.

houdini1

Rather than just have one dealership in a town I believe the same owner should have two. Two dealers (with different names) selling the same brand.

The first location would be more of a front, complete with a couple of the most obnoxious "salespeople" you could find. They would be paid by the hour and their sole job would be to insult the customers until they scurried over to dealer #2 (the good guys) where they would either be so relieved they would buy on the spot or so mad at the first shop they would buy on the spot just out of spite, so they could drive by and wave at the first guys.

driver100

Yeah, until it snows!
Been there with my BMW and it wasn't fun!

Just spring for a set of snow tires and it is fine. Where Makala lives, he doesn't worry about snow tires.
One reason the bmw isn't as good as a Honda in snow is FWD vs RWD.
Depend on what your needs are. Somewhat good driving in snow without wanting to buy snow tires, or great handling and performance. I know what I want. :P

driver100

what percentage come back if you don't give them a price? My guess would be a big fat 0, so 4% would be better than that.

Good point. And, by the law of averages, for every customer you lose because you give a quote and they go elsewhere.......you should get one that got a quote somewhere else and that came to you second.

driver100

Two dealers (with different names) selling the same brand.

Not a bad idea. Dealer #1 gives prices $400 over invoice, so when they go to dealer #2, who sells at MSRP, they'll think they are getting a bargain.

This happens in Canada at Best Buy and Future Shop, which are owned by the same company, and they pretty well monopolize the TV, computer market.

explorerx4

they are going to have to swap the salespeople between the 2, otherwise who would work @ #2? maybe a green pea.

snakeweasel

I can point you in the direction of that, but knowing the suppliers I would pass on the gold tooth.

maybesubie1

Thanks- sounds like it's not too unusual and I'm glad to hear that.

maybesubie1

Cool- thanks. I am not worried about an extra couple months depreciation as it's not likely to be much. Just want to be able to hold them to about the trade-in they agreed to.

mako1a

Are you in Deliverance country?

Now that's funny...I don't care who you are. Quoting-Larry The Cable Guy.

Seriously though, Deliverance country is a little closer to the big city. We're on 6 acres on the top of a mountain. I have 3 neighbors and 4 surrounding mountains.

I'm still learning the ways of BMW. Haven't really narrowed prices yet. More finding series availability at this point. Also new models soon to appear. I see a lot more 7 series than I do 5 series, not sure why.

I'm in no hurry as I'm hearing of possible class action against Toyota. Also when LeHood stuck his foot in his mouth and told Toyota owners to stop driving them...then recanted. Whoa. I think I'll get a rent-a-Lexus on Toyota's dime.

venture

Just drive to the dealer and get a loaner.

Both of the BMW dealers in my area will come to your house, pick up your car, and leave another BMW for you to drive until they bring it back...and both of them are almost an hour driving time away.

deltheking

I would never ever allow any service guy to drive my car unless it is just a road test....What happens if he gets into an accident or crashes it??Also you have to see those guys driving cars in the dealer`s lot.Boy,they rip them .No wonder they burn the rotors and brakes.. :shades:

And a BMW --damn,you can be sure that they would abuse it.. Again ,maybe not all- but discretion is the better part of valor and better safe than sorry.. :P

nyccarguy

Our BMW drives fantastic in the snow - it is an X3 :P

joel0622

We have a Ford dealer-The best car on his lot is no match for the Avalon-out of the race.

About every independant major publication and blogger in the country disagrees with you. You can only ride on reputation for so long

roadburner

So, how much does convenience play in your decision to buy a car?

At my advanced age(53) I'm inclined to stick with one or two brands(in my case, BMW and Jeep). I know how to work on them, I've bookmarked the best online forums and information, I know the best places to get parts, and I have a good dealer and indie shop for each marque. That said, I'll probably make an exception and pick up a Cayman S or 911 before I'm too old to enjoy it.

joel0622

I traded for a starter kit Mercedes last night. They traded for a Mustang Convertible. Early on in the negotiations when I asked why they were trading they said it was because they took the car in for its 100K service and it was $1800. Later I asked them what they had done and it was basically what we could have done for $350 and I pointed out the one service was 1/3 of the cars value. We negotiated a bit longer, cut the deal another $533 and shook hands.

It absolutely amazes me the cost to services some makes, especially the ones that the dealer is the only one who can turn off the all the christmas tree lights when a service is due.

driver100

I think I'll get a rent-a-Lexus on Toyota's dime.

Good luck! I don't think Toyota has 5 million Lexus rental cars in stock, now another million for Prius owners.
It is possible the 7 Series isn't that much more than a 5 Series for what you get. In Florida I see quite a few 7s and lots of 5s.
I also saw an add for the Mercedes GLK, and it is also an excellent car. These companies spend the money on engineering and building for ultimate safety. The bottom line is important, but there is real pride in craftsmanship. BMW, Mercedes, Audi know, if they are charging a premium price for a vehicle there has to be a good reason for people paying the premium. Superior handling, safety, and enjoyment of owning.

Take your time though, it would be best to wait until your car gets this part and you might get in on a lawsuit...but that could take years.

If I visit you, I'll come from the other direction, not from the city, I don't want to get caught in the Deliverance area.

driver100

BMW dealers in my area will come to your house, pick up your car, and leave another BMW for you to drive until they bring it back

That's incredible...and probably because they know, once you drive one you won't want to drive anything else. Great marketing.

jwilliams2

I would never ever allow any service guy to drive my car unless it is just a road test....What happens if he gets into an accident or crashes it??Also you have to see those guys driving cars in the dealer`s lot.Boy,they rip them .No wonder they burn the rotors and brakes..

Most BMW or MB dealers use retired folks as drivers. Not much chance of getting a "service guy" to take a couple of non-pay hours away from his bay to go fetch a customers car. Also, not much chance of the car getting abused. Accident? That's what insurance is for.

driver100

trading they said it was because they took the car in for its 100K service and it was $1800.

$1500 extra for service after 100,000 miles of driving...which is probably 6 to 10 years of ownership equals about $200 a year for driving a car that will out handle, out perform, and be far superior in safety and comfort features. Also, won't depreciate nearly as fast. Nothing wrong with a Mustang, but that is really false economy.

driver100

Our BMW drives fantastic in the snow - it is an X3

A bmw with snow tires will be much better in snow than a Honda without snow tires.

A bmw with AWD and snow tires is about as good as it gets in the snow.

dealbreaker2

Actually you would be surprised at the people who come back after giving them NO price, It's about 20% with good follow up. If you don't follow up, then you don't exist, even if you give them your business card, that's just a dismissal pass for the most part and they still forget who you are unless you let it be known that you care and sincerely want their business.

As for the BMW/Avalon questions, sorry can't help ya out I sell Hondas! But if anyone in the northeast needs a Honda! Let me know.

isellhondas

With labor rates at 100.00/hr and higher all cars are expensive to work on but some are much worse than others.

Then there are the Ford Trucks that have the miserable spark plugs that break when you try to remove them. I think it's an hours labor for each spark plug! Ask your techs about those. Thankfully, that design only lasted a coupld of years.

I remember when we worked on our own cars!

isellhondas

" A BMW with snow tires will be much better in the snow than a Honda without snow tires"

I put snow tires on my BMW when we had it and that is NOT true. It was a great car buit worthless in the snow.

Of course, the 4WD BMWS are much better especially with snow tires.

driver100

put snow tires on my BMW when we had it and that is NOT true. It was a great car buit worthless in the snow.

My bmw Cabriolet was hopeless in the snow. With snow tires it is perfectly fine. For one thing, snow tire technology has really improved.

joel0622

Driver that is only one service. It was the equivelant of a 30K service. So to do your scheduled maintance you would have done 3 of those by the 100K mark, not counting the (I am guessing) $200-$300 5K visits you have.

driver100

If you don't follow up, then you don't exist,

I am going to give you a great tip I learned from a marketing course I once took.

Do you know why about 5% of insurance salesmaen make $100,000s of thousands of dollars, and most barely make a living? It is because of follow up. I forget the exact numbers, but if you call on someone once, you get about a 7% response rate, 2X - about 12%, 3X about 20% and so on up to 7X..
That is the magic number, at 7X you get about an 85% response rate.

And that is what separates the top players from the others. Not fearing rejection, but to go back at least 7X to get results. Each visit builds trust and each time you get closer to a sale. So, you definitely have to do follow ups.....5 to 7X should make a huge difference....it did for me (I don't sell insurance, but I had to cold call and get new customers for my business, and I found this really worked).

driver100

So to do your scheduled maintance you would have done 3 of those by the 100K mark, not counting the (I am guessing) $200-$300 5K visits you have

Fair enough. We didn't pay anywhere close to that for service for our 1999 and 2004 Mercedes cars. They were bumper to bumper for 5 years...so we paid nothing for service.

dealbreaker2

Absolutely right, even if you give them numbers with good follow up the be-back ratio is about 33% if you didn't give them numbers around 20% will return, which entails about a 67% ratio of selling them the car on the second visit, maybe even greater. Insurance is definitely close but im sure the ratios are different. As you can see I'm a numbers guy. lol

dealbreaker2

oh and in the car business 80% of the average salespeople make 20% of the money. While 20% of the professional salespeople make 80% of the money.

This is why I would not want to be average in the highest paying profession in the work force. You control your own earnings. Go to work to work.

sterlingdog

If an insurance salesman called on me seven times, I can assure you that there would not be an eighth. :mad: :P

Richard

dealbreaker2

yeah that is excessive follow up, But Richard if you didn't respond he has no choice but to keep prospecting until you tell him to go somewhere he has done his job well.

driver100

If an insurance salesman called on me seven times, I can assure you that there would not be an eighth.

LOL, Probably twice is enough. But, really, think about it. You won't change insurance companies after one call from a stranger. He calls and doesn't use any hardsell, just asks if you are satisfied with your current provider...then let's it go. Then one day you will get a bill from your current guy, and you now have a bit of a relationship with the new guy, you know he is still in business, so you say, why not just let me know what kind of rate you have? Bingo...he get's his foot in the door.

I have had several providers and suppliers in business (shippers, suppliers, cleaning solution companies, cardboard guys) and my standard answer is "no, we are happy with the people we have, I am not going to switch to save 10% (until I am hooked and then the rates will go up). Some keep coming back, our courrier company which had great rates lost out to UPS who came in at half the price most of the time, and our international shipper got beat by some clever guys who save us 50 to 75%. All because they were patient, never hardsell, just wanted to be given a chance.

driver100

in the car business 80% of the average salespeople make 20% of the money. While 20% of the professional salespeople make 80% of the money

Interesting fact learned today, thanks. Similar to real estate and business in general, the. 80/20 rule. In a store, 20% of the merchandise will make up 80% of the sale.
On this site, 20% of the posts are interesting.....lol :P

dealbreaker2

and 93.6% of my posts are interesting the other 6.4% just upset the 10 percenters hehehe.

isellhondas

Oh, I'm sure it has. My experience go's back ten years or so.

roadburner

Driver that is only one service. It was the equivalent of a 30K service. So to do your scheduled maintenance you would have done 3 of those by the 100K mark, not counting the (I am guessing) $200-$300 5K visits you have.

In the case of my wife's 2004 X3 the Inspection II(60K) service cost $424, and that included a brake fluid flush and refinishing a curbed alloy wheel. The Inspection I(30K) runs @$200. At the last Oil Service(15K) I also had a coolant flush performed and the total bill was $143. These services were all performed at my local BMW dealer. Note that other dealers routinely charge 2-3 times more for the identical service.
At 91K the maintenance and repair costs are averaging a bit less than 3 cents per mile- and that number includes a four wheel brake service(including rotors) and four Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S tires.

roadburner

For one thing, snow tire technology has really improved.

Exactly. I ran Michelin Artic Alpins on my wife's 3er and 5er and they were just about unstoppable in snow.

driver100

So to do your scheduled maintenance you would have done 3 of those by the 100K mark

My brother has a Civic and he doesn't know anything about cars so he takes it in for service at recommended intervals and pays $200 or $300 for I don't know what?

A Mercedes is covered for 5 years, a BMW for 4 years bumper to bumper.
The Mercedes has a better chance of getting to over 100k miles than a Mustang, and has a pretty good chance of getting to 400k miles...which not too many Mustangs would ever get to. I see lots of 10 to 20 year old Mercedes in the Tampa area, I did see one 1980s Mustang but there wasn't much holding it together.

Also saw about a 20 year old GM that was dented on almost every surface, and had a bungy cord holding down the trunk.

Service might cost more, but it is probably worth the extra cost, to keep your investment running for a long time. 90% of all Mercedes in North America are still on the road (something like that).

Here's an interesting study:

> > For vehicles 11-20 years old, a 2006 Canadian study showed the
> > following order for highest percentage of cars still on the road in
> > Canada adjusted for how many were originally sold):

> > 1. Lexus
> > 2. Mercedes
> > 3. Saturn
> > 4. Infiniti
> > 5. Acura
> > 6. BMW
> > 7. Volvo
> > 8. Cadillac
> > 9. Jaguar
> > 10. Lincoln
> > 11. Toyota
> > 12. Honda
> > 13. Mazda
> > 14. Saab
> > 15. Buick
> > 16. Volkswagen
> > 17. Chrysler
> > 18. Nissan
> > ---Industry Average---
> > 19. Oldsmobile
> > 20. Subaru
> > 21. Chevrolet
> > 22. Ford
> > 23. Pontiac
> > 24. Audi
> > 25. Mercury
> > 26. Eagle
> > 27. Dodge
> > 28. Suzuki
> > 29. Plymouth
> > 30. Isuzu
> > 31. Hyundai
> > 32. Lada

jayrider

Almost every new car dealer oil change foreign /domestic I've paid for includes a complimentary inspection of hoses,belts,exhaust,fluids,suspension,tires etc. They look for problems so they can offer repairs. The brakes get a look/see when I get the tires rotated. At some dealers you can watch them do the work. What is it about BMW,MB and Audi/VW that makes their inspections cost extra? You can pay 3-400 dollars at the Nissan or Chrysler dealer if you ask for the 15k or 30k service pack which charges for every thing they offer for free except the fuel injector cleaning. They charge because they know folks expect to pay. :confuse: