Stories from the Sales Frontlines

mako1a

It's 10 grand off what Macco paid for it. Can't recall what he paid, sounds like a $28,000 car fully loaded.

Sticker was $36k. I paid just under $35k and no I won't sell it to an individual (liability issues). When it goes I'll tell you what dealer has it and you're welcome to it.

Some smart dealer is going to make much more than a mini on this. I have no idea why guys like dealbreaker, etc are passing on this just because of distance. Or maybe he has no access to new or slightly used Acuras. Shipping is relatively inexpensive in the greater scheme of things. The Avalon is as new with 4k miles. Tires still have the (you know whats) on them.

I'll probably buy out of state just because locals here are penny watchers and don't see the potential of getting me what I want. I'm moving to a luxury vehicle which is relatively rare here. Price is the least of my worries.

british_rover

True and in Volvo's case it really is closer to free. They didn't increase the price of the cars when they added that 5 year 60,000 mile safe and sound package and it covers everything just like BMW.

They did reduce the incentives slightly on some Volvos but for the Volvos that aren't moving right now, like the S80 and XC70, there are still huge incentives.

4,000 on S80s and 6,000 on XC70s.

Speaking of used Acuras I have a 2010 TSX in stock but it is a manual bummer.

jayrider

If i was in the market, the XC70 would be on the list for sure -- neighbor just bought her leased 07 -- said they offered her an amazing buyout and it wasn't even due for turn in until july. She has had zero problems and the dealer treated her like royalty.

driver100

I've only needed one warranty repair(an SRS seat sensor)...

I needed one of those in my 2004 X3 as well, in the passenger seat.

Bring it in, all fixed up, no charge.

fezo

You misunderstand. I know what he said he'd give away the 10K. Now I'm haggling for more.

What would have saved me from the original deal is that I would never spend $35K on a Toyota.

driver100

Had you bought the car without the "free" service, the price would bave been a lot lower. Therefore, it wasn't FREE.

We all know you don't get anything for nothing. So, I do pay for it. But, it is part of the package and is a nice plus, and if I was actually losing money on it...or if the dealer was making money on it, all car manufacturers including Honda would offer it. They don't because they can't build it into the cost of the car or they will lose any cost advantage they might have with their competitors, and they lose money if they have to make repairs at no cost.

tommister2

It's up to you who you sell it to, but I don't think you need to worry about liability. You haven't done anything to the car. If there is any problem it is a manufacturer defect covered by the manufacturer's warranty. I have always been told that in Virginia used cars are "as is" unless you explicitly give a warranty to the buyer. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, and as I said, it is up to you what you decide to do. I wish you the best.

driver100

Or maybe he has no access to new or slightly used Acuras.

Geez, I just hope Acura doesn't get a recall.

Another idea! Check your nearest Carmax Dealer and see what they have in stock, anything to your liking, from MB, BMW, Acura etc. Since they are easy to deal with they should be able to give you a range of value for your trade in. At least you will have an idea where you will be in price difference, and it won't get much better than CarMax.

Also, I see no reason why you can't sell your Avalon privately. As long as the buyer signs that he is aware of the recall and the car is sold as is.

Here are some prices I got on 2009s with higher mileage, so you should be able to sell privately for at least $25000.
Toyota Avalon Limited
Miami, Florida Sedans $26,990 Classic Silver Metallic 22912 mi

2009 Toyota Avalon Limited
Battle Creek, Michigan Sedans $27,450 Cassis Pearl 16618 mi

2009 Toyota Avalon Limited
Morganton, North Carolina Sedans $27,498 Desert Sand Mica 8309 mi

2009 Toyota Avalon XLS
Battle Creek, Michigan Sedans $27,850 Classic Silver Metallic 17728 mi

2009 Toyota Avalon XLS
Ogden, Utah Sedans $27,975 Blizzard Pearl 18389 mi

Hope that might help.
Found this picture of one of your neighbors;

mako1a

I would never spend $35K on a Toyota.

I know a guy (on here) that spent more than that on a Hyundai.
Hyundai dealer was 5 miles from Toyota dealer, but I didn't want to be a copycat. Later I found out he had 17 speakers to my 12 speakers. I was crushed.

sterlingdog

That is true. It is probably better to tell them the second time, "Don't call me; I'll call you."

Richard

dealbreaker2

Ya think Toyota has a little something to do with the stock market being down to 9800 holy crap lol.

Anyway at my dealership, Toyota trades are worth $5,000 less than book value if that helps any

gogiboy

"I would consider this. Very, VERY unlikely but whatever you decide to buy could be hit with a similar recall. I suspect a lot of problems real or imagined are going to be showing up everywhere now!"

Mako--I'm with isell Boom and Rover on this one. Why would you want to take such a huge depreciation hit? I know that you can afford to, but you aren't required to. Toyota has already announced a fix and even if you have lost faith in the company and their ability to manufacture safe cars there is no guarantee that whatever replacement you get won't have an issue.

I just read an article that stated that NHTSA was also either opening or looking to open recall investigations for Chevy Cobalts, Ford F150s and a couple of other makes that I don't remember.

Furthermore, I just read a very alarming article in the USA Today that uncovered documentation showing that 65,000 US airline flights over the last 6 years shouldn't have been allowed to fly for a variety of mechanical and safety issues. Those 65K flights represent .1% of all the flights that took place during that period, but that's not likely to make the million or passengers who flew on these commercial jets feel better. Does this revelation mean that you will no longer fly?

Please understand, I'm not saying that you don't have the right to be concerned, angry and ready to jump ship it's just that some of your demands sound ill-conceived, even petulant.

Gogiboy

dtezla

Dealbreaker - I keep having flashbacks to my "Joe Verde Training" classes with half of your comments. "Go to work to work", "Like, Trust then Believe"... etc.

jayrider

Are the newer used ones for sale at dealers discounted 5k off the usual selling price as well ?

lrguy44

Verde, Cardone and the infamous Jackie Cooper

british_rover

Never heard of Jackie Cooper but Verde and Cardone were around here from time to time.

sterlingdog

"Richard could be lurking."

I'm always lurking! BTW, your posts are so readable now. I'm proud of you.

Richard

sterlingdog

I agree with those two options---Carmax or park it for a month. He can also donate the car to charity and take the tax write-off. He could also load the car onto a flatbed truck and go from dealer to dealer in about two days. As Driver says, there is usually a solution to every problem. A final solution is "time". Time takes care of many things.

Richard

lrguy44

Cooper was before your time. He looked like Jackie Gleason and did a good ole boy act with his seminars. He also had some dealerships that I heard went bust years ago. Same old car lines as all the others. there really is nothing new in that business - just repackaged.

verdugo

Wondering WHY an 87 year old man would lease a car....but....

Wondering if the salespeople at that dealership asked him that quesiton? Or were too happy preparing the docs to ask?

dealbreaker2

joe verde...really? I got most of my talent listening to sleezy salesman and zig zigglar

roadburner

An X-3 is more like a CRV or an Escape size wise. Not an Explorer or Pilot.

The X3 actually has more cargo space than the X5. The AWD CRX and Escape are essentially FWD in terms of driving dynamics. The X3 handles like a RWD car. Can't put a price on that.

sterlingdog

That neighbor lives in Georgia, not Virginia.

Richard

fezo

Later I found out he had 17 speakers to my 12 speakers. I was crushed.

Oh, I would think so!

I will admit that i haven't looked at a recent Avalon. They had always struck me as a longer Camry which may have a lot to do with my $35K comment. Truth be told I'm not paying $35K for any car though I understand people who do.

Wondering if the salespeople at that dealership asked him that question? Or were too happy preparing the docs to ask?

Just what happened with dad. They figured out this was his past lease (he'd had at least four or five others with the same people) and they nailed him for all they could.

driver100

That neighbor lives in Georgia, not Virginia.

Are you sure, Mako1 said they filmed Deliverance down the way from him, but closer to the city. If those guys are closer to the city, I am not sure where he is, but the Avalon should be the least of his problems! :P

sterlingdog

I think that you are missing a point here. Psychologically, he and his wife will never drive that car again. That appears to be the bottom line. Money, logic, reasoning, comparisons, etc. just don't play a role in this situation.

Richard

british_rover

An engineering professor of mine told a story that I think is relevant to the situation at hand.

I don't know how true this is but here it is anyway.

To really get the full appreciation of this story you gotta know some background about the guy who told it. Pictures a guy in his late 60s to early 70s who was at one point very tall probably 6 foot 8 or a little more but is now a hunched over from age and walks with a cane. His right leg is a little crooked from an old mining accident but he still has a full head of white hair.

He is South African and speaks with a fairly thick accent. He spent most of his life working in the diamond and gold mines of South Africa and it shows.

The story goes a young man goes to Alaska to make his money in the gold rush. He buys all the supplies he needs. He buys the dogs and a loads it all on a raft.

Gets everything on the river and is doing ok but a quarter way along the trip he flips the raft and loses everything. Manages to save some of the dogs but loses everything else.

He is persistent and has enough money to buy more supplies and equipment and get another raft together. Tries to make the same trip but before he can reach his destination the raft overturns again and he loses nearly everything again.

He pulls himself to the shore but manages to save very little of his equipment.

He could try again as it is still early in the season and winter hasn't come on yet. He still has some of his supplies so he could make a go of it. He could return home too.

He does none of those things. He kills himself with the revolver on his hip.

That is a Permanent Solution to a Short Term Problem. Whenever you encounter a problem one of the first things you need to identify is what kind of solution is appropriate. The solution needs to be appropriate in both time and cost and short term problems can have short term solutions if that gets you through the problem with appropriate cost.

Renting a car for a month or two is a good short term solution with an appropriate attached cost.

Blowing your brains out, figuratively in this case, by trading in a three month old car and losing 10,000-20,000 dollars is a bad Permanent Solution to this problem.

isellhondas

Exactly and for theat reason I have resisted trying to convince him to keep the car.

The exact same thing coujld happen to another brand that they buy and then what would they do? Give up and take the bus? A bus can get recalled too.

Toyota CAN'T screw up this fix! If they recall cars and if any of the repaired cars have a problem, it could spell doom for them, literally!

I just don't understand but that's me!

sterlingdog

Deliverance was filmed in Georgia. I visited the film site with a fellow hiker two years ago. At my age, I nearly didn't make it back. They even had a sign half way down that read "Persons over 60 years of age may not wish to continue beyond this point." I should have listened. :sick:

Richard

sterlingdog

Great story and an excellent point!

Richard

isellhondas

As long as you didn't run into a couple of "good ol boys"!

Of course if you did, you wouldn't tell us!

jipster

Blowing your brains out, figuratively in this case, by trading in a three month old car and losing 10,000-20,000 dollars is a bad Permanent Solution to this problem.

Well, maybe. But, I don't see how Macco's case is any different than the "happy" non-grinders who come into a high end dealerships and pay asking price... instead of negotiating a better price. Each leaving a lot of money on the table, but to them it is worth it, for their own reasons. Not something I would do, but if it makes Macco happy(er), then why not.

driver100

Deliverance was filmed in Georgia. I visited the film site with a fellow hiker two years ago.

That is cool. Hope you didn't see the kid with the banjo, or the one that says you have a pretty mouth.
That movie alone would keep me from venturing in those woods. Same reason, my wife wants to go to Turkey, but I don't want to go because, I saw that prison in Midnight Express.

driver100

by trading in a three month old car and losing 10,000-20,000 dollars is a bad Permanent Solution to this problem

It's the same as people who watched the stock market go down to 7200. Alot of people think it is the end of the world and they should cash out and preserve what they still have.

A more realistic view is to say, the market is valued at a bargain price, I should buy more (buy a Corolla for my wife). The people wanting to buy the Avalon at a reduced price will do very well. Selling at this time defies all common sense, but it is what a lot of people do. Panic mode is irrational, but if you have the money and can afford to trade, why not?

british_rover

Thanks I left out the colorful language and more graphic details to keep it family friendly. You gotta picture a Mining Engineering class that is 99.9999 Percent male between the ages of 18 and 21 and then throw in that the guy grew up in South African mines to try and imagine the ermm colorful language this guy used.

british_rover

Yeah but even the happiest of happy non-grinders on Valium isn't blowing 20,000 dollars.

That aren't leaving that much money on the table.

They probably aren't even leaving 10,000 dollars on the table. Not many new Cars have $10,000 in markup and even if they do you aren't getting the full $10,000 off.

My biggest ever hit at Land Rover was with a guy who's 2003 Range Rover puked its front Diff near our dealership.

His policy at the time was whenever one of his cars had a major break down he replaced it. He lived one state over from us about two and a half hours from the dealership.

If we could get him a Black on Black Supercharged Range Rover with dark wood and RSE by Friday he would buy it. Just stick a real number on his Range Rover for trade and we were all good.

I didn't have that car in stock but a dealership one state over in the other direction did. I got it secured then shot him a number on his trade he said he would do the deal if we gave him another $1,000 for the trade and I said yes.

He decided to lease the Range Rover this time instead of buying it because they actually did have a decent lease program at the time and Range Rover depreciation is very, very steep.

He paid full list for the New Range Rover and there was a little less then 10,000 dollars of markup in the car at that time. Minus the cost of trucking it in from one state over so minus a few hundred bucks. Then minus a clean plus we threw a few hundred dollars in accessories in. The gross was a little over $9,000. I drove the Range Rover to his house with another guy following me in a chase vehicle. Did the whole delivery for him right there and then we drove back.

Total gross front and back was $12,xxx with the lease money.

Sure he could have done a little better on the price but he got the right money for his trade and no one was getting much of a discount on a SC Range Rover then. There were very few in the market we just lucked out that a guy I had a good relationship with had one and was willing to give it up for a SC Range Rover in a different color. Maybe he left $3,000 on the table but that is the very most. Keep in mind we are talking $3,000 on a nearly $100,000 car.

Plus he was paying for the convenience of not having to come out to a dealership and having me drive his new car out to him. I wasn't going to run around across three states securing and delivering a car in just three days for a mini.

michaellno

The exact same thing could happen to another brand that they buy and then what would they do? Give up and take the bus? A bus can get recalled too.

Craig, your comment above reminds me of the movie "Rain Man" - Dustin Hoffman's character wouldn't fly any airline but Qantas, since that was the only airline that hadn't had an accident.

So, they drove - a Buick, IIRC.

Based on BR's story, there might just be a dealership out there who will accommodate mako's request to have a car delivered to his house. The only issue is that BR's dealership had the old RR in front of them to appraise.

This is where I think the problem lies. I do not see any dealer sending out a UCM to the house to appraise the Avalon .. it's gonna have to get in front of someone to look at and put a price on.

As far as delivering a car, my wife had it done years ago when she bought a Tempo. Dealer brought the car to her and signed all the paperwork at the kitchen table. Of course, this was Cheyenne, WY about 20 years ago, so the trip across town took maybe 5-6 minutes.

british_rover

If Mako covered transportation both ways I would buy his Avalon for the right money.

Question is what is the right money?

I actually asked our wholesaler/used car guru about it and he is doing some research. His gut agreed with mine though somewhere in the 20,000ish range seems right.

jayrider

For a hundred dollars or so you can have an independant vehicle inspection done at his house. If it meets your conditions then buy it and have it shipped. Since you are getting the car way below value pending the fix, you should be able to work with him on the shipping costs. You want the deal to be fair for both of you.

oldfarmer50

"...Do you think Honda finance will take it back..."

Not if HF is anything like GMAC. There was a story in our local paper a while back that told of a guy who died 6 months into a 3 year lease. The family returned the car to the dealer and thought all was fine until they received a bill for $12000 for the remainder of the lease. It seems that even death didn't matter. :lemon:

mako1a

somewhere in the 20,000ish range seems right.

I had a 4 way bypass 11 months ago and this was supposed to be the go to vehicle if ever needed. My wife drives a Yukon Denali so now if I have a problem that will be the go to vehicle. No biggie either way. Both are reliable. I still like the car. Drives like a dream. Wife would probably be in it if I had faith in it. I don't.

Yes I have clear title and no, BR you will not be getting it for 20k. Toyota dealer will pay much more than that if I wanted to do a sacrifice sale. My thought is-no way should he benefit from his and his sponsor's screw up.

deltheking

But how can they do that unless there was a co-signer?? If some family member leases and unfortunately dies,how are the other family members responsible?How do they even know who is in the family??Or do they just send it to the buyer`s address?If so what if the the members move and say they are in no way connected to the dead family member? :confuse:

oregonboy

The lease is a liability to the estate of the deceased and a claim against any assets remaining in the estate.

oldfarmer50

"...how can they do that..."

I believe GMAC filed a claim against the estate.

When I read the article the thing that angered me was the fact that GMAC got the car and still wanted full payment. :mad:

tifighter

Toyota dealer will pay much more than that

So out of curiosity, what did they say they would pay? I guess I missed that part.

snakeweasel

1st, if you add up all the features and engineering and superior design,

I think we have been over this before regarding spending the extra money for "engineering and design" and have a car that needs a lot more maintence.

I will gladly give up the better driving experience that I would use for 5% of the time for a car that will be there for me nearly 100% of the time.

snakeweasel

Snow tires are definitely superior to AWD in snow.

Drive around here after a big snow storm and 90% of the vehicles in the ditch have either AWD or 4WD. And out here in Northern IL most of the roads are relatively straight with few hills.

explorerx4

Even a Toyota dealer gave you more than the competing make dealers, what could you buy? :confuse:

fushigi

Drive around here after a big snow storm and 90% of the vehicles in the ditch have either AWD or 4WD.

Yeah, but I attribute that to driver overconfidence far more than vehicle inability.

roadburner

I will gladly give up the better driving experience that I would use for 5% of the time for a car that will be there for me nearly 100% of the time.

In the case of my two daily driven BMWs they are there for me 100% of the time AND I enjoy them 100% of the time. My 3er sees my indie tech once a year for an HPDE inspection and every six months for a brake fluid change. I change the oil myself every 8000 miles. The major service rolls around at @35000 miles, which is every 2-3 years.
I change the oil in my wife's X3 every 8500 miles and it only sees the dealer at 30,000 mile intervals.
As you can see, they spend a lot of time in the shop...
Did I mention that I haven't driven my "reliable" -Hey, it's Japanese, right?- Mazda since December 21st?
I'm trying to keep it relatively clean and forestall anything else from breaking/going wrong until I can unload it on Carmax...