I just got finished looking at a 9,000 mile XC90 that is only 18 months old and is completely trashed. It looks like it has 70,000 miles on it not 9,000 miles
BR, it is very simple to give him an estimated value. If it is trashed (after 3400 miles?) it would be worth X, if it is in mint condition, it is worth Y.
Then you would be giving him the actual amount he can expect to be paid, he knows what condition the car is in.
All the car might need is a little metal postage size part and it will be as good as new. Too many people are trying to take advantage of a simple recall.
Here is the 1st recall I found for Volvos;
JUL 23, 2008 | Recall ID# 3046 Hide Details
Recall Reason STEERING:HYDRAULIC POWER ASSIST:HOSE, PIPING, AND CONNECTIONS Recall Date JUL 23, 2008 Model Affected C70 Potential Units Affected 1020
Recall Summary VOLVO IS RECALLING MY 2008-2009 VEHICLES. A SECTION OF THE POWER STEERING RETURN LINE HOSE WAS NOT PROPERLY VULCANIZED (CURED) AND DOES NOT MEET SPECIFICATIONS. IF THE POWER STEERING RETURN HOSE FAILS, A SUDDEN RUPTURE OF THE HOSE CAN OCCUR.
Consequence THIS CAN RESULT IN A RAPID DRAINAGE OF THE POWER STEERING FLUID IN THE SYSTEM AND A COMPLETE LOSS OF POWER ASSISTANCE, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Remedy DEALERS WILL INSPECT AND REPLACE THE STEERING RETURN LINE HOSE ASSEMBLY FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON AUGUST 13, 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT VOLVO AT 1-800-458-1552.
Not sure what the point of filming it was as speed on film doesn't have the same effect as in real life.
The owner of the dealership didn't want to fire the guys, so I have to think he wanted the filming done. I think he wanted to make DVDs for promotional purposes, but, yes, they are idiots.
Hey thanks for the trade-in info. You don't mind if my attorney uses that in correspondence to Toyota Corporate do you? I'm trying to do a buyback.
And, Brandon, since you are an actual car sales representative is it OK if I use your email lr.sales1@(*****).com if they need to ask you some questions?
This will come in handy for a quick presentation to Toyota as far as what current owners are facing. Thanks, Dave
Found an 02 m3 coupe -- one owner clean carfax $16500. Looks nice on cars.com 133k miles. RWD stick. All records. I figure if a jeep liberty with 200k miles is still running, that BMW should have at least 60k miles left.
I'd agree, but I want something with about half that mileage as the car is going to be my track rat. I've found a few under $25K.
There are newer 335i sticks with lower miles under 25k as well. I don't know how much performance you need but these are well regarded.
I go back and forth on those cars. I'm a bit concerned about the HPFP problems, and I don't like the fact that a limited slip isn't available. That said, I'd still consider one if a cream puff turned up.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Yeah I don't care but I don't see Toyota giving you any sort of compensation.
You are of course free to sue anyone you want.
All of those numbers are really just me making an educated guess. There is no book for that car and my wholesale guy still isn't sure what it is worth either but agreed with my tummy that 20,000ish sounded about right for the situation.
Maybe Toyota wouldn't take note of an individual making a claim for diminished value on the new Toyota they purchased. However, as some of us mentioned earlier, I'm sure someone, somewhere is preparing a class action suit for this very thing.
BR, you're right that anyone can sue anyone else (or, in this case, any other entity). The validity of the lawsuit may be questioned. But, I know I'd be a bit irritated to find out my 2010 model car has lost 40%, maybe 50% of its value in less than a year of ownership because of this recall.
I just saw a blurb that the bill for this recall so far is $2B.....and, that's expected to go up since the Prius brake issue hasn't started, yet (and, that doesn't include the Lexus hybrids). And, if there are any further models under the Toyota/Lexus umbrella that will fall under the recall, it doesn't include them.
In short, this is already expensive for Toyota. It's only going to get a lot more expensive, and quickly.
There is no book for that car and my wholesale guy still isn't sure what it is worth either but agreed with my tummy that 20,000ish sounded about right for the situation.
Thanks again More ammo for me to justify a buyback. A $15k loss in 3 months. That ought to make Mr Toyoda sit up and listen to a customer.
I think "compensation" is what a lot of the Toyota trashing is about. A lot of people are trying to take advantage of the situation and get something for nothing.
I am sure there will be a huge class action law suit that will include anyone who knew someone who had ever thought about buying a Toyota. If they are lucky they may get a free oil change and the lawyers will get millions.
Buy back why cause your new car depreciated? That is what they do.
Remember when I said I thought 25,500 was the right money if we could sell the car now? That is still a nearly 10,000 dollar loss because it is a used car you are trying to sell three months after you bought it.
So you lost another 4,000 to 5,000 dollars cause of the recall. You are only losing that because you are trying to sell it now. If you tried to sell it in six month so you would probably be back up near to that $25,5000 figure.
Bah $15,000 in three months is nothing. A customer of mine lost 60,000 dollars in six months on a Bentley Arnage T. I always figured average Range Rover depreciation is $20,000 a year for the first two years or $15,000 a year for three years. Assuming you do 10,000 miles a year or so.
BR,form what I have seen for mainstream cars-the Honda CRV absolutely has the best resale..Damn it doesn`t even depreciate by much.Used CRV`s are priced higher than new ones at some places.And a 1 yr old certified used CRV with less than 10k miles invariably is priced higher than a new one.. Tough to figure it !! :shades:
Nice pic of the elantra. Sometime for kicks take a test drive and let me what you think. Reviews are decent but I'd like a real road test report. May try one myself next week.
I told him before he bought it that that was not the kind of car for him. He should look at a new School Bentley like a Flying Spur or Continental GT. I know his tastes and he is not an old school kind of guy like the Arnage and Azure are.
He drove the Arnage for six months and said that he didn't like the way people looked at him. He said it was too ostentatious and well just not him. :surprise:
I was shocked, shocked I said. Then of course he wanted help to get out of it. The most we could find someone willing to pay for it was $130k. Eventually, a month or two later, he found a Ferrari dealer who would buy it for $160k if he bought a pre-owned F430 so that is what he did. The car only had 7,000 miles on it when he dumped it. I kept a copy of that window sticker for a long time but don't think I could find it now.
Hey thanks for the trade-in info. You don't mind if my attorney uses that in correspondence to Toyota Corporate do you? I'm trying to do a buyback.
Mako, I think you should still try to sell it privately. I wouldn't care too much about the recall. If I was in the market for an Avalon ( it is an excellent car, but I don't think it is for me), I would gladly buy for $25k, a car with only a few thousand miles on it. And when this little recall situation is cleared up it will be worth $28 or $29k maybe even $30k - privately. I don't know if there are enough people where you live to try to sell it locally (I don't think those banjo playing boys have enough money), but, list it on eBay. Nothing to lose. Or call your friendly Carmax, or do you want to file a lawsuit.....will take years to settle and you will lose more than you win?
Sometime for kicks take a test drive and let me what you think. Reviews are decent but I'd like a real road test report. May try one myself next week.
I'd like to do that, but it would be better if you did it. I am in Florida for 2 more weeks so I don't know if they'll let me take it out...I'd have to come up with a really good story.
Back home I can do it, but they might wonder when I drive in with a 2 year old bmw Cabriolet. I'll need another good story.
I don't want to lie, I'll get caught, I am not good at it.
Alright. I'll do it. Pretty comfortable with the sales dude at the Hyundai store. Plus he can sell all the brands in the autoplex. Nissan-VW-Mitsubishi-Mazda-Kia.
. Plus he can sell all the brands in the autoplex. Nissan-VW-Mitsubishi-Mazda-Kia.
Sounds like a good place to check out some cars, and you really are in the market, so no problem going for test drives or asking questions. I had an Outlander rental a few years ago, and I really liked that. The only problem could be trying to get it fixed on a trip (not too many dealers) and resale value.
I'm curious about the nature and extent of the mechanical problems that you had or are having with your MS3. Didn't you get your car in 07? I bought a M3 hatchback--which is the weak cousin to your MS3 and haven't had one problem in three years of ownership, which is even better than my Toyotas and Honda--and much, much better than my GM and VW. Of course, I did ruin a wheel/tire on the interstate, had a woman back into the driver door and got $2500 worth of hail damage last February--each incident required either a couple day stay in a body shop or with a mechanic. Good thing I can bike to work.
Do you think your problems are directly attributable to new model woes? I almost bought the MS3 as and, given your travails, am now happy I stuck with the more tried-and-true, mundane sport hatchback. At the time my biggest was that I wouldn't drive sensibly and thus end up with lots of speeding tickets, not reliability.
I just knew that you fit that description---university music professor on his bike. I'm not trying to stereotype you; it's a compliment. Don't tell me that you wear thin rimmed glasses and a shock of hair that never stays in place. It's funny how we have images of each other when we haven't seen one another in person. Do you have a tweed sports jacket? If not, I'm going to send you one. It will complete my image. :P
" Wait until you're my age. You'll start envisioning all kinds of things."
Richard--
It's okay, we're not contacting the men in white suits just yet. Besides, you wouldn't know whether you were really seeing them with all that white powdery stuff you east coasters are supposed to be getting. One can only hope that they will arrive in a 59 Cadillac ambulance--white, of course.
Speaking of that white powdery stuff, boy did we get socked with that today. It just stopped but it was a foot and a half blizzard. This is supposedly the part of Jersey that doesn't get such things.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
"I guess this RAV4 rental car must be worth about $30k. I wouldn't pay $20k for it, it would be like throwing away $20k for a box with a steering wheel. "
Driver--
Not that it will matter to you, but since we were just looking at RAV4s--new and used I can tell you that a brand new fully optioned 2010 Rav4 4WD and V6 Limited does touch, even exceed the $30K price point. We looked seriously at a used (fleet) Rav4 w/V6, 4WD, but a base model and could have bought it for $18.3K before we both got cold feet.
So you could get a two-year old one for under $20K depending on what creature comforts you need and whether it has to be new; but, clearly, it is not the vehicle for you at any price. As it turned out, it was not the vehicle for us either, but for different reasons.
Fezo, glad to see you still have power and your head is above the snow line. My sister in law. just north west of DC told me they have 34 inches of snow!
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
How about this for a shock? We bought an 09Escape Limited last May. MSRP 32760. Has all options except trailer towing package and water proof under floor storage area. Discounts were x plan (2546), rebate(2500), special rebate(750), financing rebate (500). Paid 26464 + doc fee 75 + new reg and plate transfer 100 + sales tax 1817. I am pretty sure we will be able to write off the sales tax. Money we saved over buying an MKX, priceless. I did a good anti sales job
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Boy,the escape is as old as it gets in the small SUV market..Basically an outdated 10 yr old design...But you like it and that`s what that matters..Drive it till the wheels come off as they depreciate badly..But it is rated good reliability as per CR--so you should be fine.. :P And I would suggest a Ford ext warr--you never know with all these recalls these days !!
hey, I'll stop at the hyundai dealer and check one out for you. two of my favorites at the car show last week were the santa fe and Sonoata, so it will give me an excuse to go check them out too!
t a brand new fully optioned 2010 Rav4 4WD and V6 Limited does touch, even exceed the $30K price point.
That reminds me, when I criticize a car like the RAV4, I am only criticizing it from my point of view. I realize that for many people this would be a dream vehicle. Loads of room, fair amount of power for a heavy SUV with a small engine, very reliable, will last for a long time, economical to run, pretty safe, etc.
I find that actually driving along in a car gives some enjoyment, but the actual ride quality (noisy and very bumpy...not firm, but unsafe bumpy), lack of responsive handling, poor interior design, uncomfortable seats, all make this very unappealing to me. But, for most people who just want economical, reliable transportation, this car would be ideal. I know I would prefer the Outlander or a Jeep from my experience..
What I am trying to say is, almost every model of car appeals to a segment of the market, and I am not saying any car is bad, in this case the RAV4 didn't appeal to me.
Now, why did you not pursue buying one?
One more thing....Sticker Shock! Many things have come down in price lately, especially TVs and appliances, even furniture hasn't changed in price much over 10 years, but cars are up 25 or 30% in 10 years. So, when a RAV4 is over $30k, it makes a Mercedes or a BMW a bargain for $40k
Since you rent so many cars and write so many reviews, you need your own publication. We'll call it "Driver's Choice". Remember "Taster's Choice"? :P I'll do the editing.
Well an 04 Limited 4WD with about 75k miles roughly has a trade of around 7k.And a 2WD is lower..Right now invoice on a base Limited is 26k with rebate of 2k.Add in a couple options and the invoice prices touches 28k and then the trade maybe 7.5k...So dont know if its a great resale or not! But I say this thing -Escapes are used as taxis in NY city and those guys really abuse them but the Escapes seem to be holding up well there ,so they must be quite reliable and cheap to fix!! :P
write so many reviews, you need your own publication.
That can be another career. Book distributor, car salesman, car reviewer. I'd really like that last one. You would make a great editor, you even got explorer fixed up, he is now writing properly again.......he just had a short relapse, probably a rough evening I guess.
*No, I think he did better early today but his last one was down to 50% OK. I think he gets worse in the evening.
I was looking at the Grand Cherokee Limited on Edmunds today. You can get it loaded for $36K with a $5K rebate. I did delete the $800 sunroof because I don't want that option. At $31K it's not a bad vehicle. If they would give me about $3K for the '03 Explorer and let me grind off $1K, we would be at roughly $27K plus tax, tags, and that darn fee that we won't mention here because of Driver. :P All told, I'm still sitting at about $30K for a midsize SUV. Cars are just expensive these days. Edmunds says that my Explorer is worth $5K but I decided to allow only $3K. It's the real world out there.
I was looking at the Grand Cherokee Limited on Edmunds today. You can get it loaded for $36K with a $5K rebate. I did delete the $800 sunroof because I don't want that option. At $31K it's not a bad vehicle.
Driver's Choice rates the Jeep very high....8 stars out of 10.
I had a 95 and a 2000 and they are great handling, and have a nice firm ride but not too harsh. I find the steering is almost car like rather than truck like.
If the Explorer is only worth $3000, you owe it to your neighbors to buy a new vehicle to raise house values....and you would have a very nice vehicle, much better than a FJ or whatever they are. Better than a GM too
Why don't you buy a 1 or 2 year old Grand Cherokee?You can get a real bargain on them!!
And I don't think cars are expensive nowadays,relatively speaking of course. The 02 Camry was pretty much under 20k at that time and now maybe it is 1.5k or 2k more expensive..So even after inflation,they haven`t risen so sharply..And there is so much tech and standard safety features in them nowadays--most of them standard even on base models--like ABS,ESC,extra airbags,bluetooth and numerous other features..Factor in the cost to redesign a new vehicle and I would think cars are not expensive now compared to about 10 years ago! :P
I read somewhere [ I think on edmunds Inside Line]- The cost to design the new Suzuki Kizashi midsize sedan as per Suzuki CEO--was guess what : 1 billion dollars !! damn,that`s a lot of dough ! I hope they have vehicle sales to atleast recoup their investment. And even well equipped Kizashi-is only about 22k I think and you can bet that within an year there will be big incentives on it due to poor sales. :shades:
Honda was our first stop during that car shopping circut. We actually drove a VW Passat Wagon that we both loved (before we drove the X3). But it came out to be too much $$$ to lease. I sent an email to a local dealer on a Friday night explaining what I was looking for. They got back to me the next day (Saturday) & broke down everything for me in black & white (MSRP, Selling Price, Money Factor, Residual, & lease payment including 7.375% sales tax). The saleswoman also said that it was the last day of the month & she didn't know what programs were going to be out the next month. She said that I should call her up & fill out a credit application so she could "hold the rates" for me for 60 days. The deal was $396 per month for a $28K Passat. The selling price was excellent & the money factor was somewhere really close to ZERO, but VWs residual value at the time was horrible.
Well, I didn't get home from work until 6:00 PM that night (we're supposed to close at 12 on Saturdays)n& the dealership closes at 4 on Saturdays.
I went up there on Monday so my wife & I could test drive the car & see how well the baby seat fit. We really liked the car, but VW decided to push financing that month instead of leasing. I didn't want to finance or have any part of a VW remotely out of warranty. The lease payement jumped from $396 a month to $445 per month.
So for $25 per month more than a Passat Wagon, my wife drives the uktimate driving SUV.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
You would be amazed to see mine. The body style hasn't changed since 2003. If you put mine beside a 2010, you would have trouble deciding which one was the 2010. Not changing body styles is good for the consumer. People think that your car is actually newer---if you've taken care of it.
Glad to know that you gave the Grand Cherokee Limited an 8. I may need to take one for a ride. I had a '96 Cherokee Sport that had a rough ride. I would imagine that the Grand Limited would be a cut above.
I was looking at the Grand Cherokee Limited on Edmunds today
Just came back from skiing in Lake Tahoe. Snow chain controls, and the Grand Cherokee (with snow tires) handled like a champ. The only problem was getting stuck behind the cars with snow chains.
Mako, I'm with you in selling the car if you've lost faith in it. However, trying to make Toyota pay for the loss in value seems wrong to me. It's that sense of entitlement attitude that is too prevalent in the US nowadays.
Nobody told you that your car would not depreciate. It depreciated it as soon as you drove it off the lot. And your looking at a potential loss that is large because of your own doing. If you wait to sell the car until the hysteria dies down, prices will be back up to normal.
I'm curious about the nature and extent of the mechanical problems that you had or are having with your MS3. Didn't you get your car in 07?
My detailed litany of woe can be found in post #47735. Here's the thing; IF the MS3 were a bit more durable or IF a decent dealer wasn't 110 miles away I'd be much more likely to keep the car. That said, I'm beginning to hear stories of timing chain problems at 70K miles and up... :surprise: Methinks it's time to cut my considerable losses and move on.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
So for $25 per month more than a Passat Wagon, my wife drives the uktimate driving SUV.
That is an amazing fact, $25 more a month to drive an X3 over a Passat! Passat probably doesn't have free maintenance too (or 15k miles between oil changes), so it is really less than that.
The leasing rates make a big difference, but so does the value of the car after the lease is up.
Overall, an excellent deal.
And Drivers Choice gives the X3 a 9.5 in that market segment (smaller, luxury SUV)
. I had a '96 Cherokee Sport that had a rough ride. I would imagine that the Grand Limited would be a cut above.
The Grand Limited is much better riding. However, there was something about the Cherokee Sport and Classics that had their very own charm. I like the styling better than most cars on the road today (I like square cars more than round), and it was a good honest car....basic, but also a work horse. There was a special edition with leather seats and fancy wheels....I think they would sell really well today, it would make a great nostalgia type vehicle. (exerpts from Drivers Choice vol III 2006)
Comments
BR, it is very simple to give him an estimated value. If it is trashed (after 3400 miles?) it would be worth X, if it is in mint condition, it is worth Y.
Then you would be giving him the actual amount he can expect to be paid, he knows what condition the car is in.
All the car might need is a little metal postage size part and it will be as good as new. Too many people are trying to take advantage of a simple recall.
Here is the 1st recall I found for Volvos;
JUL 23, 2008 | Recall ID# 3046 Hide Details
Recall Reason STEERING:HYDRAULIC POWER ASSIST:HOSE, PIPING, AND CONNECTIONS
Recall Date JUL 23, 2008
Model Affected C70
Potential Units Affected 1020
Recall Summary
VOLVO IS RECALLING MY 2008-2009 VEHICLES. A SECTION OF THE POWER STEERING RETURN LINE HOSE WAS NOT PROPERLY VULCANIZED (CURED) AND DOES NOT MEET SPECIFICATIONS. IF THE POWER STEERING RETURN HOSE FAILS, A SUDDEN RUPTURE OF THE HOSE CAN OCCUR.
Consequence
THIS CAN RESULT IN A RAPID DRAINAGE OF THE POWER STEERING FLUID IN THE SYSTEM AND A COMPLETE LOSS OF POWER ASSISTANCE, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Remedy
DEALERS WILL INSPECT AND REPLACE THE STEERING RETURN LINE HOSE ASSEMBLY FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON AUGUST 13, 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT VOLVO AT 1-800-458-1552.
That sounds worse than a sticky gas pedal? :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The owner of the dealership didn't want to fire the guys, so I have to think he wanted the filming done. I think he wanted to make DVDs for promotional purposes, but, yes, they are idiots.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And, Brandon, since you are an actual car sales representative is it OK if I use your email lr.sales1@(*****).com if they need to ask you some questions?
This will come in handy for a quick presentation to Toyota as far as what current owners are facing. Thanks, Dave
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I'd agree, but I want something with about half that mileage as the car is going to be my track rat. I've found a few under $25K.
There are newer 335i sticks with lower miles under 25k as well. I don't know how much performance you need but these are well regarded.
I go back and forth on those cars. I'm a bit concerned about the HPFP problems, and I don't like the fact that a limited slip isn't available. That said, I'd still consider one if a cream puff turned up.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
You are of course free to sue anyone you want.
All of those numbers are really just me making an educated guess. There is no book for that car and my wholesale guy still isn't sure what it is worth either but agreed with my tummy that 20,000ish sounded about right for the situation.
BR, you're right that anyone can sue anyone else (or, in this case, any other entity). The validity of the lawsuit may be questioned. But, I know I'd be a bit irritated to find out my 2010 model car has lost 40%, maybe 50% of its value in less than a year of ownership because of this recall.
I just saw a blurb that the bill for this recall so far is $2B.....and, that's expected to go up since the Prius brake issue hasn't started, yet (and, that doesn't include the Lexus hybrids). And, if there are any further models under the Toyota/Lexus umbrella that will fall under the recall, it doesn't include them.
In short, this is already expensive for Toyota. It's only going to get a lot more expensive, and quickly.
Richard
Thanks again More ammo for me to justify a buyback. A $15k loss in 3 months. That ought to make Mr Toyoda sit up and listen to a customer.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Richard
I am sure there will be a huge class action law suit that will include anyone who knew someone who had ever thought about buying a Toyota. If they are lucky they may get a free oil change and the lawyers will get millions.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Remember when I said I thought 25,500 was the right money if we could sell the car now? That is still a nearly 10,000 dollar loss because it is a used car you are trying to sell three months after you bought it.
So you lost another 4,000 to 5,000 dollars cause of the recall. You are only losing that because you are trying to sell it now. If you tried to sell it in six month so you would probably be back up near to that $25,5000 figure.
Bah $15,000 in three months is nothing. A customer of mine lost 60,000 dollars in six months on a Bentley Arnage T.
I always figured average Range Rover depreciation is $20,000 a year for the first two years or $15,000 a year for three years. Assuming you do 10,000 miles a year or so.
BTW, I'm 188 miles from you. Just a bit of trivia there.
Richard
Richard
Sticker was $260kish he paid 230kish.
I told him before he bought it that that was not the kind of car for him. He should look at a new School Bentley like a Flying Spur or Continental GT. I know his tastes and he is not an old school kind of guy like the Arnage and Azure are.
He drove the Arnage for six months and said that he didn't like the way people looked at him. He said it was too ostentatious and well just not him. :surprise:
I was shocked, shocked I said. Then of course he wanted help to get out of it. The most we could find someone willing to pay for it was $130k. Eventually, a month or two later, he found a Ferrari dealer who would buy it for $160k if he bought a pre-owned F430 so that is what he did. The car only had 7,000 miles on it when he dumped it. I kept a copy of that window sticker for a long time but don't think I could find it now.
Mako, I think you should still try to sell it privately. I wouldn't care too much about the recall. If I was in the market for an Avalon ( it is an excellent car, but I don't think it is for me), I would gladly buy for $25k, a car with only a few thousand miles on it. And when this little recall situation is cleared up it will be worth $28 or $29k maybe even $30k - privately.
I don't know if there are enough people where you live to try to sell it locally (I don't think those banjo playing boys have enough money), but, list it on eBay. Nothing to lose. Or call your friendly Carmax, or do you want to file a lawsuit.....will take years to settle and you will lose more than you win?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'd like to do that, but it would be better if you did it. I am in Florida for 2 more weeks so I don't know if they'll let me take it out...I'd have to come up with a really good story.
Back home I can do it, but they might wonder when I drive in with a 2 year old bmw Cabriolet. I'll need another good story.
I don't want to lie, I'll get caught, I am not good at it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Sounds like a good place to check out some cars, and you really are in the market, so no problem going for test drives or asking questions. I had an Outlander rental a few years ago, and I really liked that. The only problem could be trying to get it fixed on a trip (not too many dealers) and resale value.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm curious about the nature and extent of the mechanical problems that you had or are having with your MS3. Didn't you get your car in 07? I bought a M3 hatchback--which is the weak cousin to your MS3 and haven't had one problem in three years of ownership, which is even better than my Toyotas and Honda--and much, much better than my GM and VW. Of course, I did ruin a wheel/tire on the interstate, had a woman back into the driver door and got $2500 worth of hail damage last February--each incident required either a couple day stay in a body shop or with a mechanic. Good thing I can bike to work.
Do you think your problems are directly attributable to new model woes? I almost bought the MS3 as and, given your travails, am now happy I stuck with the more tried-and-true, mundane sport hatchback. At the time my biggest was that I wouldn't drive sensibly and thus end up with lots of speeding tickets, not reliability.
Gogiboy
Richard
I just knew that you fit that description---university music professor on his bike. I'm not trying to stereotype you; it's a compliment. Don't tell me that you wear thin rimmed glasses and a shock of hair that never stays in place. It's funny how we have images of each other when we haven't seen one another in person. Do you have a tweed sports jacket? If not, I'm going to send you one. It will complete my image. :P
Richard
GG--
Given your experience with the MBs lack of power I wish you would have replied, "yes, and there won't be any intended acceleration, either."
Gogiboy
Richard--
It's okay, we're not contacting the men in white suits just yet. Besides, you wouldn't know whether you were really seeing them with all that white powdery stuff you east coasters are supposed to be getting. One can only hope that they will arrive in a 59 Cadillac ambulance--white, of course.
Gogiboy
Driver--
Not that it will matter to you, but since we were just looking at RAV4s--new and used I can tell you that a brand new fully optioned 2010 Rav4 4WD and V6 Limited does touch, even exceed the $30K price point. We looked seriously at a used (fleet) Rav4 w/V6, 4WD, but a base model and could have bought it for $18.3K before we both got cold feet.
So you could get a two-year old one for under $20K depending on what creature comforts you need and whether it has to be new; but, clearly, it is not the vehicle for you at any price. As it turned out, it was not the vehicle for us either, but for different reasons.
Gogiboy
My sister in law. just north west of DC told me they have 34 inches of snow!
We bought an 09Escape Limited last May. MSRP 32760.
Has all options except trailer towing package and water proof under floor storage area.
Discounts were x plan (2546), rebate(2500), special rebate(750), financing rebate (500).
Paid 26464 + doc fee 75 + new reg and plate transfer 100 + sales tax 1817.
I am pretty sure we will be able to write off the sales tax.
Money we saved over buying an MKX, priceless.
I did a good anti sales job
And I would suggest a Ford ext warr--you never know with all these recalls these days !!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
That reminds me, when I criticize a car like the RAV4, I am only criticizing it from my point of view. I realize that for many people this would be a dream vehicle. Loads of room, fair amount of power for a heavy SUV with a small engine, very reliable, will last for a long time, economical to run, pretty safe, etc.
I find that actually driving along in a car gives some enjoyment, but the actual ride quality (noisy and very bumpy...not firm, but unsafe bumpy), lack of responsive handling, poor interior design, uncomfortable seats, all make this very unappealing to me. But, for most people who just want economical, reliable transportation, this car would be ideal. I know I would prefer the Outlander or a Jeep from my experience..
What I am trying to say is, almost every model of car appeals to a segment of the market, and I am not saying any car is bad, in this case the RAV4 didn't appeal to me.
Now, why did you not pursue buying one?
One more thing....Sticker Shock! Many things have come down in price lately, especially TVs and appliances, even furniture hasn't changed in price much over 10 years, but cars are up 25 or 30% in 10 years. So, when a RAV4 is over $30k, it makes a Mercedes or a BMW a bargain for $40k
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
But I say this thing -Escapes are used as taxis in NY city and those guys really abuse them but the Escapes seem to be holding up well there ,so they must be quite reliable and cheap to fix!! :P
That can be another career. Book distributor, car salesman, car reviewer. I'd really like that last one. You would make a great editor, you even got explorer fixed up, he is now writing properly again.......he just had a short relapse, probably a rough evening I guess.
*No, I think he did better early today but his last one was down to 50% OK. I think he gets worse in the evening.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
Almost back to your normal self...you got half the capitals and most of the periods.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
Driver's Choice rates the Jeep very high....8 stars out of 10.
I had a 95 and a 2000 and they are great handling, and have a nice firm ride but not too harsh. I find the steering is almost car like rather than truck like.
If the Explorer is only worth $3000, you owe it to your neighbors to buy a new vehicle to raise house values....and you would have a very nice vehicle, much better than a FJ or whatever they are. Better than a GM too
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And I don't think cars are expensive nowadays,relatively speaking of course. The 02 Camry was pretty much under 20k at that time and now maybe it is 1.5k or 2k more expensive..So even after inflation,they haven`t risen so sharply..And there is so much tech and standard safety features in them nowadays--most of them standard even on base models--like ABS,ESC,extra airbags,bluetooth and numerous other features..Factor in the cost to redesign a new vehicle and I would think cars are not expensive now compared to about 10 years ago! :P
I read somewhere [ I think on edmunds Inside Line]- The cost to design the new Suzuki Kizashi midsize sedan as per Suzuki CEO--was guess what : 1 billion dollars !! damn,that`s a lot of dough ! I hope they have vehicle sales to atleast recoup their investment. And even well equipped Kizashi-is only about 22k I think and you can bet that within an year there will be big incentives on it due to poor sales. :shades:
Well, I didn't get home from work until 6:00 PM that night (we're supposed to close at 12 on Saturdays)n& the dealership closes at 4 on Saturdays.
I went up there on Monday so my wife & I could test drive the car & see how well the baby seat fit. We really liked the car, but VW decided to push financing that month instead of leasing. I didn't want to finance or have any part of a VW remotely out of warranty. The lease payement jumped from $396 a month to $445 per month.
So for $25 per month more than a Passat Wagon, my wife drives the uktimate driving SUV.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
You would be amazed to see mine. The body style hasn't changed since 2003. If you put mine beside a 2010, you would have trouble deciding which one was the 2010. Not changing body styles is good for the consumer. People think that your car is actually newer---if you've taken care of it.
Glad to know that you gave the Grand Cherokee Limited an 8. I may need to take one for a ride. I had a '96 Cherokee Sport that had a rough ride. I would imagine that the Grand Limited would be a cut above.
Richard
Richard
Just came back from skiing in Lake Tahoe. Snow chain controls, and the Grand Cherokee (with snow tires) handled like a champ. The only problem was getting stuck behind the cars with snow chains.
Mako, I'm with you in selling the car if you've lost faith in it. However, trying to make Toyota pay for the loss in value seems wrong to me. It's that sense of entitlement attitude that is too prevalent in the US nowadays.
Nobody told you that your car would not depreciate. It depreciated it as soon as you drove it off the lot. And your looking at a potential loss that is large because of your own doing. If you wait to sell the car until the hysteria dies down, prices will be back up to normal.
You can afford to buy a car. Man up, and move on.
My detailed litany of woe can be found in post #47735. Here's the thing; IF the MS3 were a bit more durable or IF a decent dealer wasn't 110 miles away I'd be much more likely to keep the car. That said, I'm beginning to hear stories of timing chain problems at 70K miles and up... :surprise:
Methinks it's time to cut my considerable losses and move on.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That is an amazing fact, $25 more a month to drive an X3 over a Passat! Passat probably doesn't have free maintenance too (or 15k miles between oil changes), so it is really less than that.
The leasing rates make a big difference, but so does the value of the car after the lease is up.
Overall, an excellent deal.
And Drivers Choice gives the X3 a 9.5 in that market segment (smaller, luxury SUV)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The Grand Limited is much better riding. However, there was something about the Cherokee Sport and Classics that had their very own charm. I like the styling better than most cars on the road today (I like square cars more than round), and it was a good honest car....basic, but also a work horse. There was a special edition with leather seats and fancy wheels....I think they would sell really well today, it would make a great nostalgia type vehicle.
(exerpts from Drivers Choice vol III 2006)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250