Stories from the Sales Frontlines

roadburner

What is it about BMW,MB and Audi/VW that makes their inspections cost extra?

The BMW Inspection/services are very thorough; for example, the brake pads are actually removed and the sliding contact surfaces of the caliper are lubricated. A full diagnostic read of the ECU is also included. I'll admit that some BMW dealers cut corners on this, but the two dealers that I have used have performed the inspections to the letter.

driver100

The BMW Inspection/services are very thorough;

If I may add, the cars are a little more complicated and have to be maintained to very rigid standards....to perform to the max.

Just a guess but I would say the mechanics have more to learn, and the cost of the equipment is more expensive.

I suppose all makes do this now, but it seems bmw and Mercedes lead the way in new technology. Drive in, hand them the key, they know all the details about your car and you.

Most people wouldn't want to pay extra for service. If you really enjoy the handling and the engineering, then it's part of the price of admission. Or just buy a new one when the warranty is up. Or, for a pretty fair price, get an extended warranty.

jayrider

driver-- I'm seeing better lease rates for brokers than dealers. Some will negotiate with a dealer near you so you can check out the car and take delivery there. Others will ship to your house. Some of the savings are minor but some promise substantially lower monthly payments. The money factor and residual is pretty well set so the cap cost [zero down] must be well below what I could get walking in the door. What gives? I suppose I could take the numbers in to the dealer and ask them to match it. If they say I can't get one for that rate and I do- I suppose I could take it back after and show them the lease agreement. Still have time and may buy next time but the lease rates are attractive. I know my way around the leasing calculations so it will be hard to pull a fast one on me. The actual leases are through the manufacturer so that's the same. Will be interesting to see what the numbers say when the time comes.

verdugo

Exactly. I ran Michelin Artic Alpins on my wife's 3er and 5er and they were just about unstoppable in snow.

Next time get some snow tires that will help her stop! :P

lrguy44

If a manufacture has a supported lease deal it will be better than any broker can do. I have found that if you are a savvy buyer a broker will save you time but cost you money.

isellhondas

Car Brokers?

Are there any of those guys left?

lrguy44

There are a bunch of them here. Usually, they want us to leave them $500 in the deal. So I quote them what I would sell the car for plus $500 for thier profit.

mako1a

Craig, another car in the running is the Acura TL. I put tech package, sedan (V6) and Pearl White (not crazy about their red). Can you give me the quick and dirty on that car before the dealer calls me? Warranty-3 yr, 4 yr? What extras should I expect or not expect? Is the stereo really that good (as described)? Pls fill me in.

BMW maintenance seems like a real pain in the butt. Also salesman said "you have to bring the car in" I said Govt rep said not to drive it!
I'm gonna play this no drive Toyota to the hilt. Never did a trade from my living room before. Price is much less of a concern than what I get in return.

I expect to push the garage door button and wait for one to disappear and another to appear. I want it all and I want it done right here. We'll see how it goes.

lrguy44

I hate to tell you but you will never get as much on a blind bid as if the dealer can see the trade up close. if you are going to minimize your loss, a serious effort must be put forth.

jayrider

I wouldn't worry about the drive to the dealer. But if you want a bmw or an acura -- make the deal and I'm sure the dealer will take your car and at worst send it to auction. If $ isn't the problem you can have it all done tommorrow.

mako1a

Anyone needing a close-up view of my car needs to go to a Toyota store and look at a 2010 Avalon Limited in Pearl white and Charcoal leather. Mine is exactly the same.

Salesmen need to turn off the transmit and open the receive to find out what their customers really want. Capt, you say you give your customers excellent care, but do you really listen? My post said I'm less concerned about what I have to spend and more about getting what I want.

I will get it my way if I have to go to Burger King for my car. I have the funds and don't care what it takes to make the phrase "why did you buy thaaatt car?" end.

dealbreaker2

Salesmen need to turn off the transmit and open the receive to find out what their customers really want. Capt, you say you give your customers excellent care, but do you really listen? My post said I'm less concerned about what I have to spend and more about getting what I want.

I will get it my way if I have to go to Burger King for my car. I have the funds and don't care what it takes to make the phrase "why did you buy thaaatt car?" end.

This couldn't be more true. Most Salespeople look at the end of the tunnel before they even enter it. Build Value Forget Price! This is the 2nd biggest investment to your home and sending your kids to college! The other fact that people buy cars on average 1 every 3-5 years, You have one chance to make a first impression and that fails you have no chance at making the sale or future sales because the average customer between family and friends knows at least 36 people!!! Isn't that crazy??!!

Today for example, I sold a brand new CR-V to a customer who had shopped at least 3 other dealers, One: They didn't demonstrate and present the vehicle and it's features advantages of the features and the benefits of owning the vehicle. Two: They low-balled them. Three: They didn't build rapport with the customer or his wife. Most purchases are made by focusing on the female customer just as much as her spouse!!! Come to find out she was one of my mother's former co-workers at a local hospital back in the 90's so we established common ground and me and the husband hit it off because he works for a casino that I visit and we talked about gaming. Price isn't everything, make friends with the people make them trust you and they will buy if you don't skips the steps to a sale.

michaellno

Anyone needing a close-up view of my car needs to go to a Toyota store and look at a 2010 Avalon Limited in Pearl white and Charcoal leather. Mine is exactly the same.

Sorry, what you are describing is a 2010 Avalon Limited, not your 2010 Avalon Limited.

Do you really expect a BMW used car manager to traipze over to the Toyota dealership and ask to see a new Avalon in order to make a legitimate offer to you on the trade in value?

I really, really, don't see that happening.

But I wish you luck in your search for a new car.

driver100

Anyone needing a close-up view of my car needs to go to a Toyota store and look at a 2010 Avalon Limited

Mako, do you own another car? Why not go to a bmw, mercedes, Acura dealer in the closest real city to where you live? Have a nice stay and go to a movie or a play. Test drive some cars. Talk to a salesperson. Ask them what book value is sight unseen. At least you will know what you want and approximately what you will pay. Don't tell him that you don't care how much it is going to cost to trade.

I think you were considering a one year old model too. They you could probably get at the Toyota store, and they would probably gladly take your Avalon in trade.

british_rover

Wait you want to trade in a recalled Toyota NOW???

One you just bought?

First off there is no book for 2010 really anything now. Putting a value on one of those cars is hard to begin with then you have to figure in book drop for six to eight weeks cause you can't sell it. You can't sell it till the recall is done and how long do you think it is going to be before a Toyota dealer will do the recall for an Acura dealer? Your best bet is to only shop dealers that also have a Toyota dealer in their group. They are the ones that will give you the best shot of making ok money.

I know you said you don't care what you get for it but are you ready to take a 30 to 40 percent bath from what you paid for it?

That is my gut right now.

My advice is to keep the thing and don't worry about it. You will most likely lose at least a third of what you paid for it if not more. Are you really prepared for that?

You know what I get when I try to look up the value of a 2009 Avalon in my Galves program?

IN red letters CAUTION Sales suspended Value shown is last published value prior to recall.

In other words good luck if you put this number on it because we don't know what they are worth.

oldfarmer50

"...go back 7X to get results..."

The second time an insurance salesman came back to my house he'd be run off at gunpoint. When I say NO I mean it. :mad:

With cars I've almost never had any follow up during or after the sale. With the last car the Chrysler guy did make one follow up call but he only beat me calling him back by a day. The sale would have been made or not regardless of his follow-up.

I supose if you had someone who was truly on the fence, a follow-up might make a difference but only if the customer had unanswered questions.

oldfarmer50

"...I see lots of 10 to 20 year old Mercedes in the Tampa area..."

You see lots of 10 to 20 year old EVERYTHINGS in that area. I just love to see old cars down there that would have rusted into the junkyard long ago in NY. Most of my old cars died of rot long before any fatal mechanical problem. With my natural stubbornness (my wife says cheapness) I can't imagine how long I could keep a clunker going down there.

BTW, where in the Tampa area are you staying? We use my BIL's condo in Largo across Tampa Bay. If you get over to the gulf beaches have dinner at Dockside Dave's on Gulf Blvd. Kind of a neighborhood hole-in -wall type of place but good.

boomchek

Mako, you're just making this more difficult on yourself than it really is.

Like michaell said, a used car manager needs to see your car, not any 2010 Avalon. We know what 2010 Avalons look like, we know what options they have, but we need to see your partocular vehicle. Do you know how many customers said they had cars in perfect condition, yet they were total junk?

Do you know how many cars I've seen that were a year old but looked worse than some 10 year old cars we had on the lot?

No self respecting sales manager is going to put a blind number on your Avalon without seeing it in person, especially with a recall that might affect your vehicle's value right now. If appraised wrong, it could end up being a double whammy for a dealer.

That is unless you're willing to let it go for $1 (or pennies on the dollar), then it would be a different story. But obviously you want a resonable trade in value, therefore you have to be a bit more flexible with showing your vehicle for an appraisal.

mako1a

Wait you want to trade in a recalled Toyota NOW???

I went to Benz dealer 13 days ago (before any recall) asking what trade was on the toyota. My car was on his lot for over 2 hours. Dealer checked it all out. He seemed more interested in the window sticker than looking at the car. After 2 hours of driving C class and E class he still couldn't put a number on my car. I went home never knowing what my trade was worth.

The next day he called to ask if it had bluetooth and still couldn't put a number on it. I said you copied my Monrony sticker, why don't you tell me. (of course it has it). That's when I said &^%(& M Benz.

I'm under the impression that they don't want to price the car. They just want to wait for whatever it is dealers wait for. That is why I see no point in taking the car into another dealership! If they can't price a 3 month old car even after having 2 hours to do so on their lot, then I'm not bringing the car out of the garage again.

The next dealer that has to "see it in person" will be directed to the MB dealer that obviously saw all there was to see. Am I making myself clear? Not only will my car not be there...I won't be there either. Take me at my word or...NEXT.

oldfarmer50

"...if they can't price a 3 month old car..."

Why do I hear the theme song from "JAWS" playing in my head. I'm no car pro but if I sensed the panic you have to be rid of your car I would low-ball you for all it's worth.

Might I suggest that you park your Toyota someplace for a few weeks and go buy your new car in a straight deal? You wife would then be off your back and you could take your time getting rid of the original one after the hysteria fades.

driver100

where in the Tampa area are you staying? We use my BIL's condo in Largo across Tampa Bay

OF, Largo is kind of kiddy corner across Tampa Bay...it is about 1 hour away.

Last year we went to Dunedin where the Blue Jays practice, and we saw the Jays play the Yankees. I'm not that big on baseball, but it was a beautiful day, and it so easy to get tickets and parking, it was actually fun. Dunedin is about 15 minutes from Largo.

It is amazing how cars do last here. Lots of 80s cars that you don't see back home any more.

driver100

You wife would then be off your back and you could take your time getting rid of the original one after the hysteria fades.

Get rid of the original car (Avalon) or wife? :confuse: I am confused :confuse:

mako1a

Oh the wife's a keeper for sure. But I'll pay 10 large to anyone that can put that #$^%#$ toyota in Lunar Orbit.

tommister2

So are you set on trading the Avalon in? How much do you think it is worth? It is difficult to price something so new. Seems like you might as well put it up for sale, maybe you can sell it yourself and not have to worry about trading.

isellhondas

Man, I hate to see you do this and take what will probably be a huge loss.

We are all different, however and I do respect your fears.

Acura TL's are basically a Glorified Accord but very nice cars.

I'm not sure about the length of the warranty but they can certainly tell you.

Great stereo. You'll have to decide for yourself.

I really like BMW's but the cost of ownership turns me off. Premium gas, very expensive tires, rotors that need to be replaced with every set of brake pads etc.

But the people who BMW's klnow these things (or should) and to them it's worth spending the extra bucks!

I would consider this. Very, VERY unlikely but whatever you decide to buy could be hit with a similar recall. I suspect a lot of problems real or imagined are going to be showing up everywhere now!

What would you do then?

exb0

Do you have the title for it? If the price is right, I might swing by and take it off your hands. Give me the lowest OTD quote. :P

driver100

But I'll pay 10 large to anyone that can put that #$^%#$ toyota in Lunar Orbit

You have a problem...get rid of an Avalon which you don't want. Every problem has a solution. With the power of all the minds here, we should come up with something.

I just saw an ad for CarMax. The ad said, why go through a big hassle trying to sell your car. Just drive in to your friendly CarMax store and they'll give you a good amount for your trade in.

It might be interesting (I would do it but it is my bed time) to look up 2010 and 2009 Avalon's for sale on line, just to get an idea of what dealers or private sellers are asking for that model.

driver100

Do you have the title for it? If the price is right, I might swing by and take it off your hands. Give me the lowest OTD quote.

Way to go exb0! It sounds like a great buy and you might be able to claim the $10k

explorerx4

How about if you rent your wife a car for a month? That will probably save you some money in the long run. Then, you can reevaluate under hopefully more stabilized market and psychological conditions. Oh boy, I have to go back and put in Capital letters and check my sentence structure. Richard could be lurking.

verdugo

I just saw an ad for CarMax. The ad said, why go through a big hassle trying to sell your car. Just drive in to your friendly CarMax store and they'll give you a good amount for your trade in.

I did that. They give you more than the dealer, but less than private party. It was painless. My time is worth more than the amount I lose by going with them.

jipster

know you said you don't care what you get for it but are you ready to take a 30 to 40 percent bath from what you paid for it?

That kind of price reduction on an almost brand new car sounds right up my alley.

I'd probably take that Avalon for that price.

nyccarguy

roadburner, funny you should mention about the Arctic Alpin snow tires. That's what I run during the winter months on my Prelude & it runs with the big dogs on the snow covered roads.

driver100, I never bothered getting snow tires for our X3 because it is leased & it doesn't snow all that much here in the NYC suburbs. They do a spectacular job clearing the roads when the white stuff does fall. I feel more confident driving my Prelude with 4 snow tires than our X3 w/ all season tires.

I'm a huge BMW fan, but the cost of maintenance doesn't bother me. Especially since the 1st 50K are free & you can buy prepaid maintenance from BMW for up to 6 yrs or 100K miles (if you do 100K miles in 6 yrs, the pre paid maintenance pays for itself). My biggest problem is their cost of repair, as in body damage. My Dad is turning in his '07 X5 on the 21st (lease is up). He's had a couple of "minor" accidents with his truck and each time, the repair bill is $5000.

The car in front of him kicked up a 2x4 in the road in a snowstorm which cracked the front bumper & lodged itself in the radiator - $5500

Someone ran a red light & couldn't stop in time so they hit his left rear wheel. the rear bumper was cracked & the entire aluminum suspension had to be rebuilt - $6500

Just a few weeks ago, he wasn't paying attention and literally bumped someone at a redlight that had just turned green. He was going less than 10 mph. Front Left bumper/quarter panel (one piece) cracked, xenon headlight casing clip cracked, all the plastic underneath the bumper cracked - $4300.

nyccarguy

Craig

I don't know if you'd be able to tell me how flexible Honda Finance is with letting people out of their leases. My 87 year old grandfather had a 12 year old GMC Safari AWD van who's power steering went & he went to the Honda dealer in Pittsburgh & leased an Oddessy. He loves it & had a terrific sales experience. This morning his doctor told him that under no circumstances is he to work or drive anymore (due to his pacemaker & congestive heart failure). The doctor didn't even want him to drive home from the office (he did, but he's giving up driving). The Minivan isn't even a month old and probably has less than 400 miles on it. Do you think Honda finance will take it back if we write them a letter & have some of his doctors write a letter on his behalf? Thanks for your help.

tidester

But I'll pay 10 large to anyone that can put that #$^%#$ toyota in Lunar Orbit.

You'll have to come up with a better offer than that. The best price to launch things into low earth orbit is about $2,000 per pound. Lunar orbit is a whole lot more expensive than that!

For about 4 times as much you could go for geosynchronous orbit and have it hover 22,500 miles over your house forever. :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

bolivar

Ok, if you are this supportive of your wife's unrealistic (in my opinion) fear of the car, let's do some numbers.

You have a 3 month old car.

What did you pay for it?

And you've stated you would take $10,000 less than that for it.

If you name a number, I feel you might have several people on here that would show up with checks and drive it out of your garage.

snakeweasel

. Especially since the 1st 50K are free

Sorry its not free you pay for it, its just buried in the price of the car.

houdini1

I just heard that the odds of having a stuck accelerator problem in any of the recalled Toyotas are 10,000 to 1. That sounds about right to me.

I also understand that this is not a rational decision on your part but oldfarmer's solution sounds like the best so far. Buy whatever you want outright and let the Avalon cool off for a little while. Also I like the idea of getting a bid from Carmax...today.

isellhondas

****sigh****

Wondering WHY an 87 year old man would lease a car....but....

I suppose he can always ask if they will let him out of that lease but I've never heard of such a thing happening.

Very unfortunate.

isellhondas

Totally agree and I always get a chuckle when people say that.

Of course it's not "free"! Just buried in the price.

Sounds good though.

driver100

Sorry its not free you pay for it, its just buried in the price of the car.

Of course you pay for it, but to me it is almost like being free, and this is why;

1st, if you add up all the features and engineering and superior design, the cost of a bmw is worth every penny. If you take a $25k Camry and add all the features a bmw has, to the Camry, it would cost more than a bmw, or at least as much - and you still would not have all the engineering.

What free bumper to bumper and maintenance also says is...bmw knows the car is designed and built right, and they will back that up. Plus extended warranties to 100,000k and possibly more.

So, I know I pay for the bump to bump, but I would have bought the car without it...so to me, it is FREE!

driver100

when the white stuff does fall. I feel more confident driving my Prelude with 4 snow tires than our X3 w/ all season tires

My wife's bmw has AWD, and we don't get that much snow, so she doesn't have snow tires.
Mine doesn't have AWD so I need snow tires. Snow tires are definitely superior to AWD in snow.
I also read a report that said this as well. If you are buying AWD as a substitute for snow tires, it will be a mistake.

isellhondas

Had you bought the car without the "free" service, the price would bave been a lot lower. Therefore, it wasn't FREE.

But as long as you are happy, that's what matters!

fezo

My dad had a thing with a lease where he was off the road in the first year of a three year lease. He ended up paying for it to mostly sit around for over two years. A few of us would drive it running errands for him just to get something out of it but I don't think it had more than 12K on it when we turned it in.

fezo

Meanwhile, I'll gladly pay $10K and come pick up the Avalon. Even if it doesn't come with free maintenance.

jipster

Meanwhile, I'll gladly pay $10K and come pick up the Avalon. Even if it doesn't come with free maintenance

It's 10 grand off what Macco paid for it. Can't recall what he paid, sounds like a $28,000 car fully loaded. So I'll flip you for it... to so see who gets to drives to Virgina to take it off his hands for 18 grand. :shades:

roadburner

So, I know I pay for the bump to bump, but I would have bought the car without it...so to me, it is FREE!

In December 2005 I bought a CPO 2004 X3 with 16,500 miles for my wife. Indistinguishable from new, it cost considerably less than a new Exploder, Highlander, or Pilot and I had full maintenance and a bumper to bumper warranty until 50,000 miles as well as major component coverage to 100,000 miles. So, as I've previously mentioned, at 91,000 miles my maintenance and repair costs have averaged @2.8 cents per mile- and that number includes pads and rotors at all four wheels as well as a set of Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S tires.
The only "downside" is that I've only needed one warranty repair(an SRS seat sensor)... :P

isellhondas

An X-3 is more like a CRV or an Escape size wise. Not an Explorer or Pilot.

jayrider

Looks like the x3 is being phased out for the X1. Do CRV's depreciate at all? Prices on used ones are within whispering distance of new.

british_rover

Well here is what I would do if you refused to bring the car in and were presenting me with a 2010 with no book that I can't sell for eight weeks or more.

I would look up base invoice on edmunds maybe if you have nav I add that in but probably not.

Base invoice is 32,151 and I am rounding down to $32,000.

Take a third off that so $21,440 and round down again to $21,000.

That is assuming you have the title. If you don't have the title and I either have to wait for the DMV to get me one or wait for the bank to get me one knock off another $1,000.

So you want a S80 T6 AWD then?

Volvo has an extra 1,000 in incentives for Toyota owners. That should put you a little under 40,000 dollars for a S80 T6 with Climate and BLISS.

The Merc dealer was just too afraid to put a number on your car that is all. He should have just come out and said he doesn't know what it is worth instead of stringing you along. I am not even sure if my number is right. I might be too conservative but somewhere around $20,000 is what my gut says.

If you really want to know an answer I have two wholesalers that will be in the building later today I will ask them.

jayrider

Rover-- you forgot to mention the totally awsome 5 year total care package included with new volvos. Notice I didn't say "free" package but it is the best peace of mind deal available.