Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

There was a story in our local paper a while back that told of a guy who died 6 months into a 3 year lease.

To be fair, a lease is similar to buying...in that case.

If the guy bought a refridgerator from Sears, and then dies, he (or his estate) would still have to pay the balance owing on the refridgerator.

In the case of a lease, they would probably want the car back too. They could make an allowance, for the time not used, but that's only if they want to be nice about it.

sterlingdog

"Did I mention that I haven't driven...Mazda since December 21st?"

Don't let your battery run down before you reach Carmax. :P

Richard

sterlingdog

"Of course if you did, you wouldn't tell us!"

Especially if I ran into the one who said that I had a pretty mouth! :sick:

Richard

driver100

Good for you mako. 2010 Camrys are going for about $20,000 to $23,000.
For example:

2010 Toyota Camry $22,988Location: Panama City, FL
Interior Color:
Mileage: 7,118
Exterior Color: Silver


2010 Toyota Camry $20,999Location: Englewood Cliffs, NJ
Interior Color:
Mileage: 2,238
Exterior Color: Silver

I don't think the cars value has fallen as much as the sales people make it sound (the sky is falling because of a recall). Your price of $25000 sounds more than fair. It looks like the Camry's are worth 15% or 20% less than MSRP.
I think if you offered it for sale in the internet it would get snapped up at $25000 by a very astute buyer, and both of you would have made a terrific deal....easily a win win deal.

driver100

So out of curiosity, what did they say they would pay?

I don't think he said. I don't think he took it tback to Toyota....he is just making a statement that they would give him more than $20,000. I found used 2010 Camrys that sell for $22000 or $23000. His car should be worth more than that.

sterlingdog

You MUST take her to Turkey. Of all the countries that I have ever visited, Turkey was exactly the way that I imagined it to be. Many times our expectations turn out not to be reality. In this case, it was wonderful. Take a cruise on the Black Sea, buy an oriental rug for practically nothing, visit the mosques, and go to the night clubs. You'll love it.

To stay on topic: The cab drivers drive like a bat out of hell. No signals. The one who "thinks" that he got there first goes first.

Richard

driver100

I think we have been over this before regarding spending the extra money for "engineering and design" and have a car that needs a lot more maintence.

Yes, we have. So we should let it go. People have different priorities, it doesn't mean one car is better for everyone. If you want maximum reliability you buy a Toyota (up until 2 weeks ago anyway), If you want max reliability with some flair get an Accord, if you want max thriftiness, get a Sonata, if you want max room inside get a Taurus, max luxury a Mercedes, if you want maximum driving pleasure buy a BMW. What is important for someone isn't of interest for others.

That's why they make different kinds of cars.

driver100

You MUST take her to Turkey.

Sounds good. Actually, I think it would work out well to do a cruise that includes Turkey and Greece. I have heard very good things about Turkey, and Greece seems to be most peoples favorite destination.

To stay on topic, I won't get in one of their taxi cabs though.

explorerx4

not only that, those the vehicles out driving in the bad weather.
last month, i drove across ohio in a snow storm and only saw 5 honda accords.
i figured i would count those, since they are made there.

sterlingdog

Yes, it was a Buick---the love of their deceased father. It was a white convertible with red interior. Though an early '50's model, I can't remember the exact year. It was a real beauty.

Richard

sterlingdog

That would make a nice cruise package. You have to try the cabs. You get the best of both worlds---one payment to get you to your destination and a free pass to participate in the car race. :P

Richard

sterlingdog

Dave, I do understand how you and your wife feel. I remember my own Cadillac and Toyota experiences. It is such a shame to have confidence in an important purchase and then have that confidence violated. If you don't feel right about the situation, the "fix" actually means nothing. Fortunately, you don't have to worry about the money. There are others who may feel as you do but can't afford to trade.

Life is too short. Do what you have to do. There is another car out there that will make you happy. You'll find it. Good luck.

Richard

oregonboy

Richard,
The Buick in the movie was pale yellow. I had to look it up to see the interior color, which was black/brown. And it wasn't early 50s, it was late 40s. Other than that, you remember it perfectly! :P

"Rain Man" trailer

nyccarguy

My grandpa actually decided to lease the van. he doesn't do much driving, the payments are reasonable, & in 3 years he gets a new one. He sells fruits & vegetables to local restaurants so the interior of the van not only stinks, but gets pretty beat up.

I know that BMW's free maintenance is included in the price of the cars. If you look at other SUVs in its price range that don't include scheduled maintenance, then it is getting more for your money. An Acura RDX w/ Technology package stickered for about the same $$$ that our X3 did, an MB GLK (not out at the time) doesn't include maintenance, so it is in essence "free" - that is included in the cost of the X3 at no extra charge.

I put $0 (cap cost reduction) down & pay $471.61 for 3 years/45,000 miles for our '07 X3 (MSRP a little over $40K). The only thing I have to pay for is gas. Oh and a taillight assembly that cost $84 & I installed myself. It is an absolute blast to drive, gets 24 mpg on the highway (w/ a 260hp inline 6) & has an amazing amount of passenger room (front & rear) which is important when you have rear facing car seats.

I test drove the CRV in '07 as well. It was roomy & well put together. However, it had absolutely no power & I felt like I was sitting on a toilet. After the test drive when I sat down to speak the the salesman about the leasing price, he asked if I was ready to buy today. I said no, but definitely this week. I asked what the lease payment would be, the sellijng price of the car, money factor, & residual value. He told me the capitalized cost (selling price) of the CRV was MSRP & the lease price would be in the "low 4s." What does low 4s mean? $401 or $440?

So for not that much more $$$ per month, I got a $40K X3 instead of a $28K CRV.

tifighter

I don't think he said. I don't think he took it tback to Toyota....he is just making a statement that they would give him more than $20,000. I found used 2010 Camrys that sell for $22000 or $23000. His car should be worth more than that.

True, but you are comparing retail to wholesale. In any case, the OP said the they will pay more, so I was just curious if he had actually received a number.

nyccarguy

Our X3 lease is up at the end of July. I've got few options that I'm considering.

Originally I was just going to turn in the X3 & our 2010 TSX would become my wife's car while I continue to drive my Prelude. I've been singing my Prelude's praises for a long time here and don't want to bore you all with how much I love it, but the bottom line is that it is utterly impractical with 2 young children. I feel like we definitely need 2 "real" cars (with 4 doors, back seats, LATCH) so that if we need to go 2 different places with our boys for whatever reason we can.

Option #1: Negotiate a buyout with my BMW dealer (they buy it from BMW, CPO it, & sell it back to me) to make the X3 a CPO car for less than what BMWFS' residual value is. She keeps driving the X3, I split seat time between the TSX & my beloved Prelude.

Option #2: Turn in the X3 & walk away from it. I see Honda has tremendously cheap lease deals on Civics now. I think I could get a Civic LX for less than $200 per month including tax w/ $0 down. Wifey gets the TSX, I split seat time between the Civic (36 mpg highway if I can find one w/ a stick) & my awesone 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH. This all depends on if I like the way the Civic drives & Honda has similar fabulous lease deals.

Option #3: Turn in the X3 & walk away from it. Get a fantastic bang for the buck car that I'll love to drive like the upcoming Infiniti G25 or VW Golf R (I know I'd have to wait for this one). This option heavily depends on how much of a house we buy. I think after over a year and 9 months on the market, we've finally found a buyer for our condo. I'm waiting for the buyer to sign the papers - keeping my fingers crossed.

driver100

not only that, those the vehicles out driving in the bad weather.

you've gone back to your old ways! :P

driver100

I test drove the CRV in '07 as well. It was roomy & well put together. However, it had absolutely no power & I felt like I was sitting on a toilet.

I think that was a new option offered so you don't have to make rest stops.

Actually, I know the feeling you are explaining...it's like sitting on a throne. Maybe the short seat combined with height. Less than $1000 a year to drive the ultimate driving machine, with all maintenance and repairs covered for the length of the lease, compared to CRV, that's a pretty easy decision.

driver100

I think after over a year and 9 months on the market, we've finally found a buyer for our condo. I'm waiting for the buyer to sign the papers - keeping my fingers crossed

Good luck on the sale of your condo ny, that is always frustrating, wanting to move and not being able to. And, always being on guard for showings.

The car decisions at least sound like that will be the fun part of the problem. Our daughter and her husband bout my X3, and got extended warranties on it. Our daughter drives the X3 and he got a Lexus R300 (or whatever they are called now)Hybrid, but there's no comparison, I would rather have the X3. The Lexus is nice, but once again, a robot car....it all works perfectly well, but it is missing the really fun element of driving....like you are one with the car.

driver100

These car salesmen work for a luxury car dealer in St Louis

People... people! How many times do we have to tell you not to brag about your illegal activities on the Internet? The latest to run afoul of this bit of common-sense is an employee at St. Louis Motorsports, an exotic car dealership. The offense? Driving dealer-owned Lamborghini and Ferrari models ($200,000) at speeds of up to 150 mph on public roads. In the slow lane. As you can already predict, the local Chesterfield police didn't pull over the Italian exotic-driving dealer employee – he incriminated himself by recording his high-speed escapades and posting them on YouTube. Genius.

To watch them see the link;

Car salesmen going 150 mph

graphicguy

I've been traveling quite a bit for my new company. As such, I haven't had much time to car shop.

But, I did take a ride over to the Benz dealer, more out of curiosity, with the hope that I would be pleasantly surprised. I wasn't.

Drove a '10 C300 4matic sport....all loaded up with Nav, etc. MSRP was right around $45K. That would break my price ceiling, but 'ya never know.

Anyway, they are nice cars. Felt really cramped. Seemed built well. Admittedly, the test drive was 15 minutes, maybe a little more. There was a snow storm that was predicted to roll in so I didn't spend much time with the very nice sales person.

These cars are going the way of most cars......lots of buttons. I don't mind buttons, if I can see the writing on them. Unfortunately for the Benz, not many of them were legible. I've had the laser surgery on my eyes. Purportedly, I have 20/20 vision. I know I don't have any restrictions on my license for glasses or contacts. Still, pretty illegible on this car.

But, while I usually don't put much stock in the superlatives that car sales people roll with, this sales person was great with them.

A few of the more memorable ones.....

-"A Mercedes is a lifetime investment"
I found that a bit quizzical, since I wasn't really sure if he meant it would last a lifetime. Or, that the investment would cost me for a lifetime to purchase, and maintain for a lifetime.

-"They are built like no other cars in the world".
OK....I could go either way on this statement. Either no other car can be built like a Mercedes, or no other manufacturer would dare build one like Mercedes does, or probably what he meant, no other car is built as well as a Mercedes (which could be debatable).

-"feel the power of the precision engineered engine (I thought Acura had that tag line). Truth told, it made nice sounds, but felt underpowered. I kept thinking that it felt about as fast as my Accord 4 cylinder.

-"every button is engineered to have the same pressure and luxurious feel". Now, that was a bit over the top. The buttons felt like....well.....buttons. I don't know how a button is supposed to feel "luxurious".

-"Mercedes makes the safest cars in the world with 'crumple zones', steel beam door construction, and a multitude of airbags". Well, I think most manufacturers can say the same thing.

-"notice that the sunroof extends all the way into the rear passenger compartment".
Not entirely true. The sunroof opens for the front passengers, but the rear seats are 'treated' to a piece of glass above them, which doesn't open.

I'm sure more superlatives could have been thrown out, but it was close to their closing time. I told the nice sales person (who really was quite good) that the Benz really didn't "float my boat". Like a good sales person, he asked me "why".

Well, it feels cramped, buttons are illegible, seemed underpowered.

LIke a good sales person, he turned on the car's lights. Indeed, the interior lit up like a well decorated Christmas tree. A little better, but not by much. He moved me over to the E class, which was bigger, but well over my budget. Lastly, he said a C350 would be more to my liking. But, it isn't made with 4matic.

I thanked him for his time and took his car.

I know there's been a lot of consternation regarding recent Toyota events. But, as I was going out the front door, he followed me out with this little tidbit....."you won't have any unintended acceleration problems with a Mercedes."

Everybody is jumping on that bandwagon, so it seems.

mako1a

We are snowbound here. My driveway has 14 inches since the plow guy came last week. He hasn't called yet as the last of it is still falling. My van is near the top of the tires and it would be difficult to open the doors. It hasn't moved in ten days.

I'm wondering how the godfather of grammar is doing in this storm as he's about 100 to 150 miles from me. He may be having more rain than snow per the news. Scanner reports numerous off the road, in the ditch and in the median accidents. Along with jackknifed semis and lines of traffic on I-81 (5 miles from here).

New car sales should go up between here and DC with the thousands of fender smashers over the last few days. I wonder how many just got rid of a car payment.

jayrider

The surest way for me to eliminate a car from the want list is to drive one. I think it is a byproduct of the aging process. The auto press is ga-ga over the new mb E350 but something tells me a test drive won't convince me of it being worth the price. I'd be too worried over any possible ding or sputter. The bmw 328xi wagon I test drove was really nice but for all I drive the benefits of the ultimate driving machine would be totally wasted. I want a car that handles well at normal speeds, has comfy seats good brakes and the usual creature comforts. And enough room for my stuff. Lots of new cars on the way and lots of choices under 25k. I don't spend enough time in a car to warrant anything more than upscale basic transportation. What a drag !

stickguy

after checking out the MB display at the car show last week, I know what you mean. Obviously I didn't drive it, but sitting in and checking out the interior, the benz's are woefully underwhelming , and do absolutely nothing for me.

And dude, I think you typed the best faux pas I have ever seen here:

"I thanked him for his time and took his car. "

sterlingdog

I'm so glad that I remembered it correctly. :P If it wasn't a convertible, then I AM a lug nut! There must be SOME movie that had a white one with red interior. I remember such an animal so vividly. Wait until you're my age. You'll start envisioning all kinds of things. :shades:

Richard

driver100

We are snowbound here. My driveway has 14 inches since the plow guy came last week.

Funny how things go, and what happened to global warming?
We are in Florida now, today will only be 65F, but by Monday back to the 70s.
Back home in Toronto Canada it is 32F and no snow. It must be years since we have ever had 14 inches of snow back home.

They showed Virginia on CNN (I was thinking of you mako) and Baltimore, and Washington, etc., and we almost never get that much snow in the Toronto area!

It will be interesting to hear how the "King of Grammer" is doing, and those poor banjo boys.

Good luck if you live in those areas.

driver100

. I want a car that handles well at normal speeds, has comfy seats good brakes and the usual creature comforts. And enough room for my stuff. Lots of new cars on the way and lots of choices under 25k

What are some examples of cars that handle well, are comfortable, have good brakes, have creature comforts......because the only one I have found would be a VW Jetta. Possibley an Accord but that will probably be more than $25k.

Not being a pain, but really curious. I might have thought a Mazda, but not after RRs experience.

graphicguy

stickguy....you're right. What a faux pas. I hope Richard didn't see that.

What I meant to say was "I thanked him for his time and GAVE him the keys to his car".

I know lots of people really like push button start "thingies" in the newer cars. Personally, I've never had a problem sticking the key into the ignition and twisting it to start.

While Mercedes has done away with a real key, they have gone the "FOB" route. But, you stick the FOB into a slot and twist it. I guess if you're going to go the do everything FOB route, that's the way to do it....instead of using a real, honest to goodness, key.

I'm still coming back to the same two cars in that general price vicinity....the G37 and the TL.

Wouldn't mind an A5 or a 135i, but they're over my budget, and still cramped. Probably not being fair to them since both are coupes and I'm comparing them to sedans. That A5 just looks so damn luscious!!!!!!!!!

sterlingdog

Your "Godfather of Grammar" is doing well. We have rain and light snow. After last week, I am grateful for small blessings. Since your area is having so many "fender benders" today, perhaps the HP isn't giving out the usual 5,000 speeding tickets. Wytheville lawyers know me well. I contributed to the community several times over the years.

With 14 inches of snow, I trust that your pantry is well stocked. It doesn't sound as if you'll be going to the grocery store in the very near future. Stay safe.

Richard

jayrider

Those you mentioned -- the 2011 mazda5/ford grand max look promising. Hyundai elantra touring--- tucson possibly. I really want a wagon/hatchback without the high lip liftover in the back. VW is replacing the passat so that may be worth a look. The honda crosstour meets my needs except it's overpriced for now. If they don't sell maybe the price will drop. If the ford fusion/chevy malibu had a hatchback, I could be happy with one of those. The honda fit was impressive to look through but may be a bit small for long interstate trips. Saw one at the auto show. I suppose I could move the budget up to 28k and have better pickings.
I guess bottom line is a mid size minivan-hatchback- wagon -- Subaru forester and outback would work as well.

sterlingdog

I DID see that. I just figured that you changed your mind at the last minute and purchased the Benz. Either that or you knocked the salesman to the ground and stole the car.

Richard

sterlingdog

"You've gone back to your old ways!"

And after all of my training! :P

Richard

sterlingdog

"...a car that handles well at normal speeds, has comfy seats, good brakes and the usual creature comforts. And enough room for my stuff."

You have given the perfect description of a Grand Marquis. Go for it! Actually, as the regulars here know, I love those cars.

Richard

jayrider

Thanks for the suggestion Richard, but the trunk is so deep we would have to install an electric winch to remove the golf bags from the back. Leased one in florida a few years back and it handled about like my 1971 Ford Galaxie 500. Not really into the nostalgia thing.

driver100

- the 2011 mazda5/ford grand max look promising. Hyundai elantra touring--- tucson possibly.

You have some good choices there. I haven't seen a Ford Grand Max or Elantra Touring car yet, so I looked them up. The Elantra looks interesting, even comes with a manual, and even the top model is under $20k. It looks like a Saab wagon.
I always liked the looks of the Mazda 3 wagon, but RR has put me off of Mazdas.
The Elantra looks like a Saab, from the back view, if you squint a lot.

fezo

Snowed in here at the Jersey shore.

15" and still coming down. Still don't have the dogs out because I have to shovel out to their run.

I'll not be looking at cars today. Can't even see the ones in the driveway.

driver100

You have given the perfect description of a Grand Marquis. Go for it! Actually, as the regulars here know, I love those cars.

You would make an excellent salesman,...... selling used GMs. You could be the Grand Marquis....selling used Grand Marquis.

roadburner

What are some examples of cars that handle well, are comfortable, have good brakes, have creature comforts......because the only one I have found would be a VW Jetta. Possibly an Accord but that will probably be more than $25k.

My problem is that I can't find any used cars that I like for much under $20K, and most of them are over $30K... There's a gorgeous E36 M3 sedan in Cincinnati, but the bloody thing has a slushbox. Sacrilege!
There really aren't any new cars under $25K that make me say "I gotta have it!!!" I really like the looks and interior of the GTI but I'm NEVER, EVER buying another FWD car. Once was infinitely more than enough.

sterlingdog

I bet that I could sell a lot of them to old ladies---just put on my charm and my gold jewelry. They would even pay full MSRP. What a fun way to make a killing. :surprise:

Richard

jayrider

When you throw the qualifier "I gotta have it ! " into the car search mix, that's a whole different perspective -- especially related to a 20-25k price limit. When you want high performance, you have to pay to play. Keep looking -- the search won't cost you anything but time and gasoline.

sterlingdog

What is a slushbox?

Richard

verdugo

What is a slushbox?

Automatic transmission. Roadburner is a manual transmission only kind of guy.

verdugo

Craig, your comment above reminds me of the movie "Rain Man" - Dustin Hoffman's character wouldn't fly any airline but Qantas, since that was the only airline that hadn't had an accident.

This is not going to help mako, but Qantas has had accidents and fatalities. The last two incidents were in 2008, but no fatalities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantas#Aircraft_incidents_and_accidents

I agree with everybody that the Avalon will be ok. However, if you can afford to, why take the chance? Mako will take a bath for sure, but he's not desperate enough to give it away for $20k. So hopefully he'll find somebody who will give him $25k, and we'll get a new sales story.

jayrider

Found an 02 m3 coupe -- one owner clean carfax $16500. Looks nice on cars.com 133k miles. RWD stick. All records. I figure if a jeep liberty with 200k miies is still running, that bmw should have at least 60k miles left. There are newer 335i sticks with lower miles under 25k as well. I don't know how much performance you need but these are well regarded.

driver100

I could sell a lot of them to old ladies---just put on my charm and my gold jewelry. They would even pay full MSRP.

LOL Especially the gold jewelry, and don't forget the plaid jacket and white shoes.
They'll eat it up.

driver100

My problem is that I can't find any used cars that I like for much under $20K

I guess this RAV4 rental car must be worth about $30k. I wouldn't pay $20k for it, it would be like throwing away $20k for a box with a steering wheel.

I calculate I can turn the steering wheel about 5% to 10% with no reaction...it just sways that much. It does get you from point A to point B, and fairly cheaply, 30 mpg., but it is bumpy and boring.

I guess if the gas pedal got stuck, it might add some excitement. :sick:

graphicguy

Then there's this from one of my favorite dealership groups (who also happens to have a Honda store right next to this one).....

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2010/02/cincinnati-toyota-dealer-to-pamper-re- called-customers.html

jayrider

The one I rented swayed a lot as well -- dramamine helped.

british_rover

Yes I have clear title and no, BR you will not be getting it for 20k. Toyota dealer will pay much more than that if I wanted to do a sacrifice sale. My thought is-no way should he benefit from his and his sponsor's screw up.

What are you talking about if you wanted to do a sacrifice sale? You ARE doing a sacrifice sale.

You asked for an opinion and I gave it. If someone called me up and gave me the story and info you have plus refused to bring it in and wanted the new car dropped off at their house I would put 20,000ish on it.

I just got finished looking at a 9,000 mile XC90 that is only 18 months old and is completely trashed. It looks like it has 70,000 miles on it not 9,000 miles. Deep scratches all over it at least a dozen small dings the front bumper is toast and so is the rear skidplate. It needs a driver's side mirror to the tune of 900 dollars(power folding, heated and BLISS equipped) the center console is broken to the point that it will need to be replaced and the seats have stains all over them.

How someone could do that much damage to a car so quickly while putting almost no miles on it blows my mind.

Bringing up the retail prices of simlar cars now has nothing to do with the wholesale value of this car right now. You can't sell any of those cars and unless you are a toyota dealership or have a toyota dealership in the company getting the recall done could take a couple of months.

Figure 25 dollars a day in holding cost is average for us and 60 days to get the recall done. so $1,500 just in holding cost.

Then two months of book drop so another $1,500 per month. It is a 2010 after all and is still depreciating rapidly. Total cost before we can even sell the car is $4,500.

So if you could sell the car now and it wasn't being recalled then maybe it is worth $25,500 instead of $21,000.

If invoice was around $32,000 and it is a Toyota so you can buy them for Invoice all day long then owning it for $25,500 with 3,500 miles sounds about right. You put it out there for $28,900 or $29,900 and someone can buy it for 4,000 to 5,000 below invoice.

That is all if you could put it out on the market now and sell it now but you can't.

boomchek

Idiots. Not sure what the point of filming it was as speed on film doesn't have the same effect as in real life. To me they looked like they were going maybe 80mph if that.