Stories from the Sales Frontlines

houdini1

Big doings up in Canada starting tonight !

I am really looking forward to The Games !! Here's hoping that our Canadian brothers to the North hit one out of the park with these Olympics. I will even be pulling for your hockey team !! Good Luck !!

Meanwhile, back to cars....EH !

exb0

Salespeople only see transactions that go through them; they don’t see low dollar transactions that are arranged privately. More affluent people that can afford to buy new trade-in because they can afford to. However, how many people drive a hooptie for a year, junk it, and buy another hooptie for $1k. I bet that most cars are sold and resold more times after they are ten years old than prior to that. How many stores sell ten year old cars? I know teenagers that trade cars with each other every six months. Every trade like this generates two private sales.

So both sides are right. If you only look at transaction where a new car is purchased, it is possible that 4 out of 5 do a trade in. However, if look at all car transactions, it is possible that 4 out of 5 are sold privately.

driver100

will even be pulling for your hockey team !! Good Luck !!

Thanks, much appreciated. I was very impressed with the nice compliments NBC gave Canada, and reviewed how Canada and the U.S. have the strongest bonds between any other two countries in the world.

It's too bad that luge driver was killed in a practice run. Being on topic, those luges go faster than I drive, without any protection around them. It's too bad there isn't a net above the track level.

fezo

If you need some furniture rearranged I could come over and throw some chairs for you though.

Speaking of furniture, where the heck is jmonroe these days? :confuse:

jimbres

You make a valid point, but I'm not sure that used / used trades happen often enough to make a difference in the numbers.

I think that used car buyers are more likely to drive their rides into the ground & then buy a replacement. People generally buy used to save money, but trading one used car for a somewhat newer used car doesn't save all that much.

I'm not saying that the scenario that you outlined doesn't happen - only that it doesn't happen often enough to appreciably move the needle.

jimbres

If you only look at transaction where a new car is purchased, it is possible that 4 out of 5 do a trade in. However, if look at all car transactions, it is possible that 4 out of 5 are sold privately.

Excellent point. I should have made it clear that I was talking about all car transactions - not just those that involved a new car.

lrguy44

I understand that there are many private sales especially on the low end of things. Buy do not forget about the pot lots that line the streets doing old cars and buy here pay here. They account for a large share of the market.

snakeweasel

You make a valid point, but I'm not sure that used / used trades happen often enough to make a difference in the numbers.

Oh I am sure that there are a lot of those deals, I made one last year. Dealerships usually have a large used car selection. I would bet that a lot of those sold had the buyer trading in another vehicle.

jimbres

True. Where do these BH/PH places get their stock?

snakeweasel

Seeing the BH/PH lot near me I would guess any old junk yard.

jimbres

As far as I can tell, he last posted on Jan. 19th but he logged on just 2 days ago. So I have to guess that he's lurking.

imidazol97

> BH/PH places get their stock?

Auctions is a primary source in this area according to the fellow down the road who got a dealer license himself. He says they buy cheap, make them really pretty, and then they sell them. If they have to take them back they just sell them again and make even more money on the same small investment in the car.

sterlingdog

Tell me good things about your Grand Cherokee. I'm getting more and more interested. I looked at an '09 off lease yesterday---black on black. I haven't driven one yet, but plan to do so soon.

BTW, my Explorer hasn't used any oil between changes in my seven years of ownership. It has about 105K on it. I've been so blessed with this car. It just never has any problems. When they do begin, I won't have any room to complain.

Richard

lrguy44

True - also when a dealer gets a high miler they will sell it to a wholesaler who will in turn sell it to the pot lot. They are extremely profitable. I might add that that used cars make up about 40-60% of a new car dealers sales. Most of those transactions involve a trade.

cdnpinhead

. . .used cars make up about 40-60% of a new car dealers sales.

I'm guessing they make up an even higher percentage of the profit, since no one knows what any given used car is "supposed" to be worth, unlike new cars.

houdini1

Especially when you buy cheap and sell high. I wonder how the mark up compares on used cars vs new cars?

sterlingdog

Jim, how can you tell if a poster logs in and doesn't post? Technology can be scary. My nephew called the other day and said that on his computer, he could tell that our planter's shutters were open on the front of the house! It makes you feel a little uncomfortable. I asked him if he saw me sitting in front of my computer in my drawers. Fortunately, he said no.

Richard

sterlingdog

We ran to the grocery store this afternoon to get a few supplies for the 3rd snow storm in North Carolina this year. We parked beside this good looking SUV. I went around to the back of it to see the brand. It was a GMC Arcadia. As we were admiring the vehicle, the owner appeared. She wanted us to see the interior. It has captain's seats in the second row, has third row seats, and has nice storage. She said that she and her husband like it much better than their old Toyota. She claimed that the Arcadia sits up high for visibility, but has the feel of a passenger car. She also said that the gas mileage is better than the Toyota. Her model was black on gray with nice wood trim. The exterior body had a nice, clean look. Even my wife, who is hard to please when it comes to cars, was impressed. Perhaps she was impressed because it was another woman who was pointing out all of the best features. :P I did like it myself. It's now on my list along with the Honda Pilot, the Grand Cherokee, and the Ford Explorer. It's nice to have choices.

Richard

imidazol97

>Jim, how can you tell if a poster logs in and doesn't post?

Roll your mouse over the user's name on the post header. A flyout box comes up and it lists the date they started and their last logon date.

If you click on the user name, a new window comes up and lists the flyout box info as well as the last ten posts. All 10 of yours have been in the Stories from Sales Frontlines.

If you click on the words in that window tha same visit my carspace page, then you can see what they've done to customize their carspace page, if anything has been done.

On that carspace page it says you joined 6 Sept 2007 and last visited the actual carspace page 7 Nov 2009. You really need to check there more often and touch it up with some new pictures and things. Grin.

You have 21 friends. You have had people post comments in the box on your carspace page 5 times.

And you have posted 2307 posts in the forums, so far.

If you click on Tire Tracks on your carspace page, you will see chronologically everyone who has visited your page.

> I asked him if he saw me sitting in front of my computer in my drawers.

You really need to put on a shirt while you're posting!

murphydog

put an ad in the paper? in this day and age reallly?

tidester

It was a GMC Arcadia.

That would be the Acadia (no "r").

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

roadburner

I have never understood folks selling privately.Way way too much hassle. Your safety is at risk..Yes there are good private sales stories,but the negatives far outnumber the positives..Too much stress and risk involved for a 1000 or 2000 dollars..Not worth the risk to limb or life at all...

You can't be serious; here are my selling/trade experiences...
First off, I'm extremely fortunate in that I have a reputation for being obsessive about the maintenance and repair of my vehicles. As a result I'm almost always able to sell a car quickly- and for a good price. I've only traded in two cars in the past fifteen years. Here are the gory details:

1973 Bavaria 3.0- Sold in 1990 to the service manager of the independent BMW shop I use. Time on market: 2 days

1987 Scorpio- Sold in 1991 to a co-worker for $2500 over best trade-in offer. Time on market: Zero- buyer asked me if I wanted to sell it.

1987 535is- Sold in 1992 to a friend. Time on market: Zero. The buyer had made me a standing offer to buy the car whenever I wanted to sell it.

1991 740 Turbo- Traded in 1994 on a 1993 Pathfinder SE for $1200 more than lease buyout. I must have made a good deal, as the car sat on the dealer's lot for over two months...

1988 M6- Sold in 1995 to fellow BMW club member(who never test drove it). Time on market: 1 day.

1984 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe- Sold in 1998 to the owner of my son's day care. Time on market: Zero. Buyer asked me if I wanted to sell it.

1998 318ti- Traded in 2001 on a 1997 528i for $1000 over auction price(according to Terry in Real World Trade-In Values). This was one time when the deal was so good that it wasn't worth selling it myself.

1993 Pathfinder SE- Sold in 2003 to the owner of the previously mentioned BMW shop. Time on market: Zero. I mentioned to him that I was putting the truck up for sale and he said "I'll take it."

1997 528i- Sold in 2005 to a customer of that same BMW shop. Time on market: five days. The car had 130K miles and four accidents on Carfax-which I disclosed. The selling price was double what Carmax offered. FWIW, I talked to the buyer a while back; she still loves the car.

I've never bought a newspaper ad, although I did list the M6 in the local and national BMW CCA classifieds. The reason I was selling the 5er was because my wife wanted an SUV(so that she could negotiate our 1/2 mile gravel farm road in inclement weather). We narrowed the choices down to two very different vehicles- a 2004 CPO X3 and a 2005 Xterra Off Road. My BMW salesperson agreed that I'd be much better off selling the 5er myself. At the Nissan dealer my salesperson was excellent, but the Sales Manager popped in and pressured me to trade the 528i. Even though I explained that I had a buyer and that the sale was a done deal, he still insisted on reciting a litany of problems that could befall me if I tried to sell it myself(yes, he wanted a deal TODAY!!!). The guy's attitude really ticked my wife off, and he essentially wound up costing his store the sale.

verdugo

We have a 4x4 08 Limited with the 4.7L V8. We've had it for two years and 16.6k miles. This generation of Grand Cherokees (WK) started in 2005. Starting in 2008 they paid attention to the interior (higher quality, soft touch plastics, MyGig Hard Drive radio/navigation). They also added HID lights. They make a big difference. We also really like the backup camera.

Some people might find legroom in the back seat a bit tight. It's only my wife and I, so it's fine for us. It's been very reliable. Routine maintenance only (this includes upgrading the software for the Mygig unit). Only one recall. It was for the key fob. the emergency actual key might come loose. No big deal.

The '09s were supposed to be even better in terms of interior quality. There is no road noise. The engine is powerful. MPG is 14 city/19 highway and we actually get that. It's not great, but I didn't buy the car for its fuel efficiency. We love it and we will replace it with another Jeep.

The size is also perfect for us. It's big enough that we can take all the stuff we want when we go camping/skiing, but it's not big enough that it makes it hard to park. We liked the Acadia that you saw (and its cousin Buick Enclave and Saturn Outlook), but it was too big for us. We don't need 3 rows of seats. We don't need a (very nice, but still glorified) mini van.

Hope this helps.

driver100

It was a GMC Arcadia.

That would be the Acadia (no "r").

Are you questioning the "Grandfather of Grammar?"

driver100

Especially when you buy cheap and sell high. I wonder how the mark up compares on used cars vs new cars?

I had a friend who started selling Mercuries (help, should that be Mercurys or I could say a type of Ford). He said he liked selling used cars more because there was a lot more room to move around on prices, because, as you say, no one really knows the exact values. He called the managers of the business "pigs" because they were always after him to sell more, and not give slack on pricing.

He definitely preferred selling used cars over new.

jipster

put an ad in the paper? in this day and age reallly?

Just put "serious inquiries only and non axe murders" in the ad, it weeds out the joy riders and whackos. :P

jipster

I wonder how the mark up compares on used cars vs new cars?

Just a guesstimate, I'd say 4% average on new cars, and depending on years and mileage, anywhere from 20%-50% on used.

snakeweasel

Just put "serious inquiries only and non axe murders" in the ad, it weeds out the joy riders and whackos.

If you really want to weed out the joy riders and whackos add "no edmunds posters" :P

ducking and running

graphicguy

imid...that's my understanding with BH/PH places. I used to play golf with a guy who owns one of the more well known BH/PH lots around here.

He got his at auction....usually the "dregs" of the auction, that other dealers wouldn't touch. And, you're right...a little paint here, a couple of dent pulls there, maybe a new windshield and it goes on the lot.

The more they have to repo the car, and resell it, the more they make. Of course, it's the "repo" that gets a little dangerous at times. But, this guy has been in business for awhile. From all outward appearances, he does quite well at it, too. Whatever downpayment was made usually covered the cost of the car and his overhead. The payments made were all pure profit.

I remember asking him if he had something that I could get on the cheap for my son's first car right after my son got his license.

He told me...."you don't want to put your son into any of the cars I have."

I was kind of shocked by that statement, but that's the kind of cars he deals in.

I haven't seen him in awhile, but he always had good car stories, particularly where people would drive in to sell him their jalop.....ummm, I mean car. Some didn't have titles (he wouldn't touch those). Some were literally pieced together like "franken-cars", using mismatched body panels. Some even would try to get rid of cars that had....ummmm....illegal activities tied to the car/vin# and would want to make a quick trade.

That's a whole different world in the car biz.

oldfarmer50

"...She wanted us to see the interior..."

You southerners are so friendly. Here in NY if a woman saw you eying her car she'd probably show you a can of Mace before she showed you the interior.

I have to get back south where the folks are nice and the cars don't rust.

deltheking

It`s a proper noun- a car`s name-so acceptable,I guess. If it was a common noun ,then it would have been different.
By the way Richard64-a question for you.Have you heard about the grammar book-Wren and Martin.If yes-what`s your opinion on it? Thanks. :P

imidazol97

A friend and neighbor that we knew because our kids were in the same class at elementary, had her light blue GM van for sale. She was shopping at the local Meijer store and a guy asked about the van. She was there with her junior high daughter and elementary school age son. She let him drive it. He went around the parking lot which has drives around the back of the building as well as the front. He bought it on the spot.

The only thing she knew about him was that he was in his car with plates in an adjoing rural county.

isellhondas

" it blew away the Accord"

It's still a Korean car.

mako1a

Here in NY if a woman saw you eying her car she'd probably show you a can of Mace

Here in the south the adage "an armed society is a polite society" is taken seriously.

Mace is for the postman to deter unruly dogs. A Glock or Beretta is much more likely.

sterlingdog

Good grief! I suppose that you can recall what I had for dinner last evening?

Thanks for the info.

Richard

stickguy

Well, that is still just a Japanese car. As the big 3 liked to say back inthe 70's.

Hyundais are every bit as well designed and built as Hondas or any other car these days. And based on some of the issues with my pair of 2005 Hondas, maybe better.

besides, they are built in the USA now too, just like a Honda, so really the only difference is the design. And based on seeing the genesis and new Sonata, and reading all the reviews, Hyundai did just fine there.

Now, if you mean it is just the bias factor, you could be right, but that gap is narrowing too.

sterlingdog

Thanks. I just glanced at the rear bumper. I had never heard of that model.

This reminds me of something that has been on my mind. Posters here assume that we all know the models of cars. When posters identify cars by models such as X130, C Series, MLX 25, IS 250, RAV4, etc., I don't always know what vehicle brand they mean. For those of us who can't identify every car on the road, it would be so helpful if the brand name was mentioned along with the model letters and numbers. Thanks.

Richard

deltheking

Yup Isell,but that`s the reality... even though Hyundai has some good offerings now-they still have that stigma..It`s sad and unfortunate but true.. Accord and Camry[even with toyo`s recent woes] have been such good reliable quality cars for such a long time that it takes time for perception to change. :shades:

And Hyundai`s resale is horrible compared to Toyo/Honda-even if you pay less upfront---- so a used 1 or 2 yr used Hyundai/Kia is a great bargain whereas a used Honda is a very poor bargain for the price. And I have my eyes on a used Genesis in a couple of years..Really good bang for the buck !! But as you said,because of Hyun/Kia there is a lot of pressure now on the [non-permissible content removed] 3 to come up with quality vehicles..Win win for the car buyers!! :P

jimbres

I'm not familiar with that book, but I strongly recommend Strunk & White's classic 85-page guide to clear writing: "The Elements of Style". While not really a grammar book, it contains loads of tips that will keep you out of trouble.

If your job involves writing - thanks to e-mail, it probably does - you should have a copy within easy reach.

snakeweasel

Korean or not it blew away the Accord in style, interior space and interior quality.

sterlingdog

Thanks so much for all of the information. Like you, the two of us don't really need 3rd row seats. We have them on the Explorer but have never used them. Because of parking, my wife would probably enjoy the Grand Cherokee more. If the cargo space holds your camping gear, it will hold the small antiques that we haul---chairs, small tables and chests, etc. Glad to hear that there is no road noise. I'm not too concerned with the fuel economy. Other factors are more important to us. We really want the backup camera. With age and vision considerations, that would be a nice feature.

This purchase will be my wife's choice. It's her turn. She had originally wanted another Honda CRV but seems open to looking at other options. The problem is getting her to the dealers to test drive. It's not her favorite thing to do on a nice day. Thanks again.

Richard

snakeweasel

And I have my eyes on a used Genesis in a couple of years.

Wait a year or two longer and see if you can find one of these.

sterlingdog

It isn't a question of grammar. It's a matter of not knowing my cars. :sick:

Richard

sterlingdog

"...no edmunds posters."

That was a scream! Love it!

Richard

british_rover

Oh just be thankful you don't venture into the make specific or classic boards too much.

People refer to models by their chassis or platform code.

So you got an E30, E60, E39, W201, W210, X300 or X305, LR322 etc.

Yeah what was that alphabet soup again. :surprise:

verdugo

This purchase will be my wife's choice. It's her turn

My wife likes small cars. So at first she wasn't thrilled with the size of the Jeep. She likes it quite a bit now.

Regardless of the car you buy, I stronly encourage you to look at HID lights. If you do any night driving, they will help a lot. The difference is night and day :P

houdini1

This was recently posted over on one of the Hyundai boards, along with a link to the article.

Something to the effect that Automotive Lease Guide (ALG) had recently assigned the 2011 Sonata a 36 month residual lease value of 54% of msrp. right out of the box. This tops, both Honda and Toyota's comparable offerings...

sterlingdog

I do like to think that we are a friendly bunch. There are some places in Yankee Land that are very friendly. When we were in Boston for a week last summer, we were amazed at the friendliness of the people. They would come up to us on the subway and ask if we needed help with directions. They could see that we were holding the subway map. The hotel staff, cab drivers, restaurant personnel, shop owners, etc. went out of their way to make us feel at home. To tell you the truth, I've found New York City residents to be friendly and helpful. Perhaps I've just been lucky.

Though I got that last speeding ticket in your neck of the woods, the officer was very nice. While he gave me a ticket, he followed up by trying to tell me the best way to beat the wrap. :surprise: :confuse: I like to believe that if you are friendly to people, they will be friendly in return. Unfortunately, it doesn't always happen that way.

Richard

deltheking

So that`s the Equus.. Looks real nice ..But looks way way too similar to Buick Lacrosse or the grille reminds of Lincoln..the only differentiating feature externally is that bird on the hood !! Probably should have gone for a more distinct,unique look.But the interior and the drive and specs are supposed to be really good.. Lets see how it compares to Lexus LS or MB E series !! :P

tidester

Are you questioning the "Grandfather of Grammar?"

No, I was pointing out a spelling error. :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper