Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

Stories from the Sales Frontlines

1996997999100110022003

Comments

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    didn't go back to look, but it seemed like a pretty substantial price break on the '09 from the asking price posted on the website

    Yeah, I remember it being substantial. So, what do you do. Stop negotiating and take the sale price... even if you think it's too high?

    This is why I'm not a great fan of buying cars from friends. If you negotiate hard, then sometimes the other party may get offended that you are not being fair. I'm not saying that's what's going on here, but there is always that risk. BECAUSE, and I've said this many times before, what the salesmen think is a fair price and what the buyer thinks is a fair price is often far apart. Better to do business with a salesmen that you know only from the car business.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    It didn't matter about those numbers that you posted earlier. I had done my research by using Edmunds, Kelly, NADA, Black Book, my local Ford dealer, etc. I had looked at private party, trade-in, and retail values. I figured the installed options, regional prices, color options, mileage, etc. Also, your publication was of value. :P

    Richard
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,711
    edited February 2010
    i did a search for a 2WD on one of the vehicle search engines using a distance of 500 miles from here in CT, and didn't get even one.
    2WD is very regional.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    The reason that there is a substantial price difference between the sticker price and the selling price is because the original sticker price was way out of balance for an '09. The research showed me that flaw. I wasn't surprised that he came down that much.

    As for not dealing with friends, Joel and I agreed from the beginning that this would possibly be a fun thing to do on this thread. I think that you are selling both of us short. If Joel never meets my price, or if he thinks that I am being ridiculous, I still have the highest respect for him. He was one of the first people who was nice to me when I came here. If I don't meet his price, I don't believe that he will hold it against me. After all, it's only a car. We're not negotiating the nation's health care or global warming. Still, I respect your opinion and value your judgment. :)

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    There are plenty of them down here.

    Richard
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,584
    I had looked at private party, trade-in, and retail values. I figured the installed options, regional prices, color options, mileage, etc. Also, your publication was of value.

    I think you did great with your research, reasoning and negotiating. Also, this might have been the 10th sale of the month so an extra bonus for the salesman....so you might as well give it a shot. It seems like it would have been a skinny deal for the dealer, but you are not desparate......you would have bought if the price was very attractive. But you have time on your side, and there are plenty more Explorers around....and Jeeps too!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,711
    i do not want to 'meddle' in what ultimately does not involve me.
    believe it or not, i am kind a facilitator, so i want it work out for both of you.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    edited February 2010
    I think that you are selling both of us short

    Richard, I'm not selling anybody short. I wrote in that post, "I'm not saying that's what's going on here",.. because I don't know if joel got offended by your offer. More than likely he didn't. But, I've read stories here quite often, and I know from personal experience, that salesmen do get upset/annoyed/offended... whatever, over extremely low offers. Don't know if your offer was low or not, seemed reasonable to me. I'm just saying there is always that risk when friends do business, no matter how well you think you know the person. ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,485
    I'm sure you're super busy, but I have a "lot queen" question for you. I have a customer who's interested in an '09 Mustang GT (MSRP $33K & Change). The car is a stick & he test drove the car in December. They went through a few rounds of negotiations & the dealer's last offer was $27,100 + TTL. He offered $26,500 and the salesman said no way - $27,100 is his final offer.

    I gotta believe this car has been sitting on the lot since at least August (when did they stop production of '09s?), it is a stick which besides me there aren't a whole lot of people in the NY area who drive one, It is The end of February and it really isn't RWD V8 Pony car buying season, the dealer has a few 2010s on the lot.

    I don't know the exact options, so I can't look up the invoice here on edmunds to have him make an intelligent offer. What do you think?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I won't negoiate with a friend on anything.

    I think that would be tacky. I'll either pay what he is asking or I'll pass.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    So, isell.... what kind of rumblings are you hearing in your store about the Washington state legislature looking at getting rid of the sales tax on trade-ins deduction?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    We are hearing the same rumblings as you and we are hoping this does NOT pass.

    They are also talking about making Oregon residents pay WA sales tax on cars they buy here. That would REALLY be a bad thing given our crazy sales tax rate.

    Interestingly, one of my uncles was one of the legislators who worked for the exemption years ago.

    He would roll in his grave if he knew how this state was being run now.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    This post is for you and Isell. You both made good points. I have always heard that you should never get involved with friends or family in business deals. I have followed that rule. My wife and her brother inherited a large farm from their aunt two years ago. They are selling off plots to industrial developers. It has been the nightmare from hell. They don't agree on price, acreage, partnerships, etc. Every time she gets a check, we remark at the price that was paid to get it---and I don't mean money.

    Perhaps this car deal wasn't the best of ideas. It's been three days since I heard from Joel. Hopefully, my counter didn't upset him. Also, my wife has cooled off now. She doesn't want to discuss buying a car in Tennessee. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

    To conclude, here was the final deal from my perspective. If Joel had accepted my offer of $23,612 plus tax and if he had installed the parking sensors, I was going to attempt to squeeze an additional $500 for the Explorer. That would have made the trade come to $5,500. The final figure would have been $18,112. His profit would have been between $1,500 and $2,000 based on retail asking prices. Here again, I don't know how much his dealer had in the car. Based on all of my research, I thought that it would have been a good deal for both of us. As usual, I stand to be corrected.

    Richard
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,584
    I have always heard that you should never get involved with friends or family in business deals.

    A good rule generally, but not always possible. When I bought the current car I was looking for something more fun for semi-retirement. A friend and neighbor said I should try the little Mercedes sports car convertible at the dealership where he worked.
    A few problems;
    *My wife couldn't try the car out because she didn't want to hand over her license (birth date).
    *Since he knew where we live and we had been neighbors and friends I don't think they should have asked for my license - also we had bought 2 cars from that dealership (different salesman)
    *They had to move around cars and take the test car out of the showroom, which required a lot of effort (I was feeling guilty).
    *He thought a convertible would be nice for semi-retirement. He was correct and I learned that fact, but I also learned that I wanted a back seat.

    I said I would think about it. When I found a hardtop convertible with a back seat and for a lot less money at the BMW dealers, I bought that.

    Although the neigbor/friend said he liked my new car, he never really wanted to take a look at it. We were still on good terms but not quite the same. If I was to do it over, I would have talked to a salesman I did not know.

    image

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,584
    I'm just saying there is always that risk when friends do business, no matter how well you think you know the person.

    An excellent rule. Like I said my son in law bought my X3. 2 years later he complained that the rear window wiper doesn't work. By accident we found out his wife (our daughter) drove it into the garage door when backing up.
    Then he complained about water leaking in on the floor...a big puddle whenever it raIns. The dealership found chipmunks ate the rubber seals and made a home in the front roof pillar.
    This is after 2 years!!!!!

    Another time I leased a car from a friend. He went on about how he would give me the special rate, so how could I argue. That was before the days of knowing I should do some homework first, but I had a general idea. I think he gave me an ok price, but I am sure I could have done better if there wasn't any emotional ties. It would be hard to walk out and say I don't trust the price he is giving me.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Hard to find (rare) vehicles are more valuable anyway. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Richard, I am thinking that Joel just must be super busy with something, either personal or business.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    My wife just informed me that she saw a car yesterday at the mall that she had never seen before. She said it cost $104,000. and was a Porsche Panorama. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,584
    Buying a used luxury car: . . .It's actually a smarter option. The people around here are rich as all get out, they CAN buy whatever they want. . .For instance, one of the leading players of the Washington Redskins, just bought a car from us. . .

    I found that statement interesting, so I looked up this article I was looking at before.

    Many people think that millionaires drive fancy cars, live in palatial homes, and get their money mostly through inheritance. But what's the truth?

    One great set of statistics for the lives of millionaires comes from the excellent book, The Millionaire Next Door. So what is the truth?

    According to this book, the average millionaire drives a Ford F-150 pickup truck. 80% made their money in one generation, and only 20% had more than 10% of their income come from inheritances. The average millionaire does not drive the latest-year's car, nor does he or she wear expensive clothes. The average millionaire invests around 20% of his or her income annually.


    It seems there are people who earn lots of money, but spend it just as quickly to maintain their lifestyle, then there are people who keep saving and don't need possessions....they live a thrifty lifestyle, and keep reinvesting.

    Millionaires Next Door

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,241
    earlier about the salesperson tied to a tree, but some of the guesses were darn funny. Just had to pop in with my "two thumbs up" review.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    We are all very thankful that we have a host with a sense of humor !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I must have skimmed those posts too quickly because I thought you and Joel were kidding with each other.

    A few years ago, our long time (23 years) next neighbor's 20 year old daughter was determined to find and buy a used Jetta. As I'm sure everyone here knows I am no fan of anything Volkswagen/Audi. I think they are nothing but trouble as they age.

    I did my best to talk them into something else. I had them read all of the negative reviews on VW's but she was determined to buy a Jetta.

    A week later, the "perfect" one got traded in. Low miles and nice. I told our neighbors about it and again, suggested they buy something else like a used
    Honda or a Toyota.

    When they arrived, she immediatly spotted the Jetta and made a beeline for it.

    I told them I would sell it only if they bought a warranty and that I didn't want to hear any talkes of woe.

    This was about four years ago. I haven't asked and they haven't said anything.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Somehow, I don't think the guy who got tied up gave the guys that did it a thumbs up!

    Even now, after a very bad day, we will sometimes hear..." Well, at least I didn't get tied to a tree!"
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    In November I took it in and had the studded snow tires installed for 80.00. It hasn't snowed once.

    We can fix that! Bring it over here. If you can get it here before noon I can get to work.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I have a better idea Steve.

    Fly out here and drive it home.

    You could be "Eddie's" new owner!
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    I have always heard that you should never get involved with friends or family in business deals.

    I once worked with a guy who sold real estate part-time. When we were looking for a larger house there was no way that I wanted to have a colleague represent me so I didn't even think about having him look. Later he told me he was a bit upset that we didn't hire him. :sick:

    So sometimes one can offend if one DOESN'T get involved with family or friends. :)
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    edited February 2010
    Richard,
    From what I remember your final offer price to Joel on the 09 Explorer was 23,600+tax+sensors included.So without sensors it is 23200+tax. It`s a 2wd. I dont know where you are but in some places a 2wd is a drop in price about 1k-2k. I think your price is good ,very doable.. Obviously ,it doesn`t involve me ,so this is not my advice,just like a suggestion to any regular post in the stories forum. :P
    And my thinking is that Joel will take it !! ;)

    Now that`s outta the way,let`s come to your 03 Explorer.Sight unseen a 100k miler-trade value as Joel said around 5000.. But now,I see those scratches,dents, worn seats, smoke smell,worn tires,brakes--Oh !Oh! Do I see it coming ? Sorry Mr.Richard probably a 1k deduction...Just kidding !! ;)

    So if this goes through - it will be the first sales story in the sales stories thread with an actual sale !! :shades:

    The hosts will be proud! Kirstie and Tidester are a happy lot! This is what is called driving a car of the lot !
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,186
    "...Well, at least I didn't get tied to a tree!..."

    LOL. I think you have defined the extremes of the sales experience. "Clubbed him like a baby seal" being on one end and "Tied to a tree" being on the other. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    I don't know where you guys get your numbers, but here is the online resource that I use:

    Black Book Trade-In as of 03/01/2010
    Clean Average Rough
    Base $24,470 $22,210 $18,000
    Options $0 $0 $0
    Mileage $0 $175 $0
    Total $24,470 $22,385 $18,000

    09 2WD EB with 18K on the clock, in TN with no additional options.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,617
    . . .Joel just must be super busy with something, either personal or business.

    Welll, here's the thing -- he who cares least wins the negotiation. Making an offer and walking away is one way to send this message.

    There are others.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,584
    Welll, here's the thing -- he who cares least wins the negotiation.

    Is it possible Joel has been asked by management, not to continue? :sick:

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    If by managemnent, you mean a HOST you may be onto something.

    We can't solicit on these boards. It's possible they squashed it

    Here all of the time, I thought they were joking about it.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    This is a thread for sales stories not actual sales so it may have been quashed but richard didn't seem to be aware of that. A better way would be to do the deal off line and report the details. Not as entertaining but in deference to the other sales folks in this discussion, probably more appropriate.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    edited February 2010
    We can't solicit on these boards.

    uhhh, you are isellhondas aren't you?. :confuse:

    It's possible they (HOSTS) squashed it

    nahh, the inmates run this prison. Besides, joel didn't solicit anything. Richard made the initial offer. Neither joel, richard or the hosts have said anything, so I doubt that's what happened.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    I sure hope that is not the case. Personally I viewed this as an educational exercise. Also I would think that management would have at least given a warning and also would have contacted Richard.

    Joel could have easily contacted Richard privately, but apparently that has not happened either.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,118
    jipster...we haven't heard from kirstie or tidester in awhile though. And, we all know how surly they can get from time-to-time. :P

    Actually, how much more real time could this get? It's almost "first person".

    No one solicited business. And, as far as stating sales person's names, we already know most, if not all, of the sales participants in this thread.

    Sales solicitation is very easy to spot. This ain't it!
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Craig's nick is granfathered in before they changed the rules.

    They squashed my first nick because it had sales in the title.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's right. Thank you.

    Never once have I used these forums to promote my business and the hosts are aware of that.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,584
    edited February 2010
    If by managemnent, you mean a HOST you may be onto something.

    No, I considered our kind, gracious, knowledgeable, loveable, peace-loving HOSTS, but they seem Ok with things, I am thinking Joel's managers. I find it odd that he would leave things hanging (in cyberspace so to speak).

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    edited February 2010
    Is it possible Joel has been asked by management, not to continue?

    I doubt it, they are not shy about coming forward when they want to. Personally I doubt this sale will happen, in fact I doubted it from the very beginning.

    I don't doubt for one minute that I could buy a car from joel0622 face to face, but I think I'd have had trouble buying a used car long distance. A new car, no problem. Note this is not a trust issue, I just like to see what I'm buying before I buy it. I realise that I could travel to Tennessee and not buy if I didn't like what I saw, but why when there are plenty other fish in the sea? Also this transaction was complicated by a trade-in and with the best will in the world it's unreasonable to hold a dealer to a price for that if they have not seen the car.

    FWIW joel0622 has not taken part in any discussion since 22 February.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,118
    isell, in all the years I've been on Edmunds, I will vouch for you. Yeah, you get surly every once in a while (just like houdini), but overall I think you've been a great contributor here. :)
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I have sold a lot of used cars long distance over the phone. Now we have our website that posts 12 detailed photos of our used cars but I did this even before we did this.

    Only once did I have an unhappy customer.

    I knew he had the potential to be a problem guy and since he was flying in from San Diego, I went over every inch of this car in detail. It was a hard to find, last year Del Sol Vtec. this would have been about ten years ago and it had, as I recall, only about 20,000 miles on it. It was in outstanding shape.

    I told him " no used car is perfect" but I couldn't find any defects.

    So, a taxi pulls up and he jumps out. NEVER have I had someone as anal as this guy! He managed to find that someone had drilled a 1/8" hole inside the center console! Someone must have mounted something there. It was almost inmpossible to detect but he managed to find it.

    He demanded a discount. Nope! I suggested he call the taxi back since he didn't like the car. He bought it but he left unhappy. I don't need or want unhappy customers.

    Never a problem since then. Most people tell me the cars are better than I descrtibed them.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Thank you.

    I try not to get surely unless provoked and I try to pull my punches even then.

    Most of the troublemakers have left at this point anyway.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Yeah, you get surly every once in a while (just like houdini),

    I never get shirley.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,931
    notice that no matter how many posts this forum gets it never shows up on the main page's "today's top discussions" I wonder why.. ;)

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,782
    Shoot, I was gone last weekend, got back here on Monday and saw this thread had over 230 unread posts. Its hard to keep up, sometimes.

    25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd

  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    edited February 2010
    Yup, I'm sure your right that if I rolled up at your or joel0622's dealership I would find the car as described (or better). I would drive an hour or two, but I wouldn't get on a plane. There has to be a car closer, though maybe not in the example you quoted.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    When they started talking about that guy being tied to a tree the only thing I could picture was John Voight being tied to the tree by a mountain man.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,485
    edited February 2010
    I'll vouch for you also - you've provided invaluable information and personally taught me a great deal about the car business. You've mentioned the metro area where your dealership is many times, but have never mentioned its name or solicited business on these forums. You've posted on these forums for a long time and continue to hang around - I'd be honored to buy a car from you.

    Thank-you Craig!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    edited February 2010
    we haven't heard from kirstie or tidester in awhile though. And, we all know how surly they can get from time-to-time.

    Hmmph! :mad: <-- Gratuitous surliness.

    P.S. AFIK, Isell has never solicited business in our Forums and is a respectable contributor to our Forums.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
This discussion has been closed.