Stories from the Sales Frontlines

deltheking

Isell,this story is true. :P Here a link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/24/earlyshow/contributors/susankoeppen/ma- in6238028.shtml

isellhondas

Seems like a petty way to cut corners and I'll ask again, how would a sales person NOT know the car had no side airbags?

They come as standard equipment. Who would have possibly known a "delete" option were available?

They do over dramatize things just a bit though. It's like without side airbags, a person will surely be killed in a collision as opposed to surviving if the bags were in place.

If side airbags were printed on the window sticker than GM has made a huge mistake. The plastic side airbag covers should have had AIR BAGS HAVE BEEN DELETED in big letters printed on them.

What a chicken s***t way for a rental company to save a few bucks!

deltheking

Yup,just cannot understand the cost saving mentality here. Penny wise and pound foolish !

isellhondas

Imagine if someone rented one of these cars thinking it had side airbags and then got involved in an accident that involved injury or death?

I can just hear a trial lawyer now...

" Ah, Mr. Rental Company, did you inform the renter that in order to save 145.00 that you opted to have the side airbags deleted?"

grandtotal

It's like without side airbags, a person will surely be killed in a collision as opposed to surviving if the bags were in place.

Make no mistake side impacts are dangerous. It is an unfortunate fact that the human head is much better able to protect the brain in a frontal impact than it is in a side impact. Side airbags really can and do save lives. If you know that you are about to suffer a side impact you would be well advised to turn your head to face it, even if you have side air bags.

mikefm58

Ah, Mr. Rental Company, did you inform the renter that in order to save 145.00 that you opted to have the side airbags deleted?

Yes we did, see it's in the 600 pages of fine print that they signed. Sorry, I couldn't resist, LOL.

jipster

I am a longtime lurker, and have been following the negotiations between Richard and Joel. It has been very interesting to watch. Seems that negotiations have fallen off (maybe just from our view). What happened?

I was wondering the same thing. Maybe Richard drove his Explorer down to Nashville to get a more accurate trade-in value... and they've been sitting around a pub drinking ever since. :confuse:

jipster

If you know that you are about to suffer a side impact you would be well advised to turn your head to face it, even if you have side air bags.

uhhh, you sure about that? Seems to me more stress would be put on the neck if having it turned..

lrguy44

Exactly. I was rear ended (by a city Cop no less) not to long ago and suffered minor whiplash. Both the insurance company and medical people asked me if my head was turned. Mine was. my wife, whose head was not turned, suffered no whiplash whatsoever.

imidazol97

The three TV station reports look like they hooked salesmen who weren't completely knowledgeable about the deletion of certain options for rental companies. It made nice video, but the dealers and the salespeople most likely did nothing wrong.

Is it my understanding that dealers have a jobber who comes in and makes up window stickers for the options that are on the cars sitting used? That's was I was told a couple years back when I was looking at Saturns.

So the probably may have been the jobber or a computer program that the store used that regenerates the window sticker list of options.

isellhondas

If someone were to have traded in one of those cars at our store, we would have had no way to determine much less even suspect the airbags had been deleted.

Until just now, I had no idea this was even possible. Why not just have ALL of the airbags deleted? They could save even more that way! Geeze.

And, yeah, we have a vendor who visits our lot twice a week. He puts nice side stickers on the used cars that have just arrived. He inputs the VIN number into his laptop and it prints out a sticker that lists the standard equipment and options.

He has messed up. I once sold a Ford Ranger that listed cruise control. When the customer couldn't figure out how to turn it on, we got to pay to have aftermarket cruise control installed.

Don't think you can do that with airbags!

This is just amazing to me!

rlsonline

I'm a luxury car dealer in the Northern Virginia area. Has anyone on this forum seen or sold a 2008 Mercedes S600 in the past month? ? ? Want to know when I can get my hands on one. The auctions don't have them right now. As difficult a beast to find as the BMW 760Li with all packages in them. . .

boomchek

I agree with you on the overdramatization of the story and putting unsuspecting salespeople in the hot seat who had nothing to do with the airbag delete scheme.

If the car has side airbag labels on the side, then we assume there are airbags there. And if it's standard equipment, why would we think otherwise?

CBS should question GM or Enterprise fleet managers in charge of selling these vehicles, but it's easier to go to a used car lot with a hidden camera and make it seem like the salesperson is involved in the scam.

As for the window stickers, I am in charge of doing all that at our dealership, including online photos, ads, option listing and vin decoding. I find many decoders to be inaccurate, hence I prefer to sit in the vehicle and worte down all options myself. If I'm not sure, or I think I missed something and i'm too busy to check again, I won't list that option until I can confirm.

But even for me how would I be able to tell about a secret airbag delete option? I can't.

sterlingdog

Hi! I'm glad that you have enjoyed our negotiation process. I have been waiting since Monday afternoon for a response from Joel. My counter is detailed in posts 51281-51284. At this point, we have had no outside contact. All that has happened has been here on this thread. I will say that from my end, the deal is beginning to fade with each passing hour. I had my wife geared up, but she is beginning to question this deal. I have to consider her wishes because this purchase will be hers. It is her turn to select a vehicle.

One of two things has happened. He either considered my counter as ridiculous, or he got involved with something at work. I'm sure that he is just busy. He's not the type to take offense at my offer. He was also going to investigate the various programs for the purchase of a new Explorer. We'll have to see what happens.

Thanks for your interest. Jump in here more often. We're happy to have new posters.

Richard

sterlingdog

I totally agree with you. How would a salesman know unless he took the car apart?

Richard

sterlingdog

I some how missed your picture. I just wanted to tell you that your truck is absolutely beautiful! I love that color. BTW, does that Deli serve delicious sandwiches?

Richard

Kirstie_H

Hey relsonline, welcome to the Forums. Good to have another salesperson in our group! Don't know if you'll find the particular info you're looking for, but hope you stick around and share some of your sales stories.

houdini1

Speaking of sales, I have put the kabash on my green hornet deal. Just got tired of all the excuses why they could not come up with a title. I will find a better one.

rlsonline

Would be my pleasure kirstie. Lord knows I have enough of them! I knew I was searching for a needle in a haystack.

So, who's had someone hold them by gunpoint during a test drive? (How's that to open up a conversation?)

tifighter

Okay, let's hear that one...

rlsonline

Had a couple walk into my dealership. (its a dealership I used to work at, so I can't say the name here) I sat them down, talked to them for a bit about what type car they were looking for. Seemed like a nice couple. Went through the process of the walk around and everything was going well. They asked me if they could test drive it, so I got a copy of their license, put the tag on the car and off we go. . .About 1/2 mile down the road, the LADY pulls out a gun and says "I'm sorry for this, but get out". . .I did, cause I'm no dummy!

About 2 days later they found them, got the car back and charged them. I had to go to court to testify it was them and they went to jail. . .Fun times. . .

isellhondas

I can't help you with your question. I've nevr seen or heard of such a Mercedes.

About 20 years ago, I believe in Idaho a salesman was murdered by a man and a woman who he took on a test drive.

Then there is the story of two guys somewhere here in Washington who took a salesperson to a remote area. They tied him to a tree and I'll let you guess what they did to him.

I didn't believe this story when I first heard it but years ago, we hired a guy who had worked with that salesperson.

Nice, huh?

rlsonline

See, the way I look at it, any job you can ever do, something could always happen. Even when you aren't at the job, something can happen. The chances aren't exactly high percentage, so I don't ever go into a test drive thinking about it. . .

jipster

the LADY pulls out a gun and says "I'm sorry for this, but get out". . .I did, cause I'm no dummy!

Well, at least she apologized. :P

Not to smart though in letting you get a copy of their drivers license. That one could go on the "World's Dumbest Criminals" t.v program. :sick:

Kirstie_H

No kidding. That, and walking into a dealership where there are witnesses (and possibly security cameras). I used to work for the medical examiner, and he always said, "thank goodness most criminals are dumb." It was true, and made catching and convicting them a lot easier than if most were masterminds.

isellhondas

I keep a pretty tight leash on people on test drives. I don't let them do anything illegal or anything that scares me. Still, I've had people do some dumb things and I have had people pull over two or three times and I have driven back to the store.

rlsonline

Not sure I understand that statement, I don't let them do anything illegal. . .

I didn't exactly LET them. . .They just DID it. . .

And, yes, the security cameras and copy of drivers license did help in the incrimination.

sterlingdog

I had wondered what happened to that possible purchase. The luster does fade with time. As you say, there are others to be had---for the right price.

Richard

sterlingdog

Welcome to our little family. We hope that you will stay and that you will enjoy our posts.

Richard

rlsonline

Thanks Richard. So far so good!

oldfarmer50

"...are we talking about delete options that didn't include the airbags..."

Yes, according to the story the rental car companies saved $145 per unit. The airbags were simply not installed at the factory. The scandal is that customers are being told that the side airbags are there.

imidazol97

And that's a problem with car salespeople, especially in the used market, where they are not familiar with all the options on the one brand they sell as a new car salesman.

This would be like asking the talking heads doing the news reports about those salesmen who thought there were airbags present to do a summary of the validity of global warming evidence today and to explain the meaning of the exposed emails and mistruths used to claim validity in the past years. Let's see how accurate the talking heads are (and their writers who write for the teleprompters).

oldfarmer50

"...How would a salesperson not know the side airbags had been removed..."

Maybe because no one told him. That was my question, WOULD the salesman know that his dealer had bought one of these cars, would he be told. For that matter would the dealer even know? If the dealer relied on the seller for a list of options and was lied to then maybe the salesman wouldn't know either.

According to the CBS story you could tell by the absence of a sticker which says "airbag" on the pillar where they are located or by looking in the trunk. The problem was that the window sticker (similar to the Mulroney sticker on a new car) said the car DID have them.

Who produces those stickers for used cars anyway? Does the dealer make them up for each used car? I have to admit that I've never really thought about them. :confuse:

EDIT: I see several people answered my last question so it's obvious that the sales person would not know about missing equipment.

oldfarmer50

"...So, who's had someone Hold them by gunpoint..."

Happened to me once on my school bus...does that count? :surprise:

snakeweasel

Toyota is in a tough spot and they can't fight mass hysteria, the UAW, and Congress....

Here is an interesting question. Since the US Government owns a sizable portion of GM wouldn't a Congressional investigation of Toyota be a conflict of interest?

oldfarmer50

"...They tied him to a tree and I'll let you guess what they did to him..."

Did they throw low-ball offers at him until he went insane? :P

snakeweasel

According to the CBS story you could tell by the absence of a sticker which says "airbag" on the pillar where they are located or by looking in the trunk. The problem was that the window sticker (similar to the Mulroney sticker on a new car) said the car DID have them.

The Sebring I bought last year is a former rental, the original Mulroney sticker was in the glove compartment.

verdugo

Happened to me once on my school bus...does that count?

No, but tell us anway!

boomchek

is not bad but some points are inaccurate. The article is called 10 things not to say when buying a car.

Number 6 talks about extended warranties.

Extended warranties are like insurance, so treat them like insurance. Shop around to third parties and closely compare the terms with what you might get from the dealer. Ridout of Consumer Action says that dealer extended warranties never make financial sense. "You're betting against the long-term reliability of your vehicle," he says. "You'd be better off taking the money you'd spend and putting it in a dedicated savings account for car repairs." If that doesn't offer you enough peace of mind, check with your insurance provider. Usually, policies from insurance companies cost around $100 or so per year.

I'd like to know where they can buy a vehicle extended warranty for $100/year. :confuse:

Number 8 regarding credit score:

Don't think - know your credit score before you walk into the dealership. By law, everybody is entitled to one free assessment of his or her current credit score per year. If you walk in with your credit score in hand, the dealer can't back you into unfavorable terms with boogeyman stories about bad credit and difficulties in financing.

Umm, just because you know your credit score, it doesn't automatically entitle you to prime financing. Knowing is one thing, but having a good score is another. Walking in with a bad credit score will unfortunately result in boogeyman financing.

Full article here

kyfdx

"...They tied him to a tree and I'll let you guess what they did to him..."

Did they throw low-ball offers at him until he went insane?

Now.. that's funny!!

british_rover

I run across S-Classes and 7 Series from time to time, they are fairly common trades at a Land Rover dealership, but I haven't in a while.

driver100

And, yes, the security cameras and copy of drivers license did help in the incrimination

Did they ever come back and buy a car from you?

Just joking, welcome aboard and enjoy the ride. Glad you are here to tell us about your experiences. The worst that happened to me was once when I managed a retail store and a guys lawn sprinkler didn't work. Store policy was since he used it, even though it was the first time, he had to take it to the manufacturer to be fixed. He through it across the counter right at our heads...3 of us ducked and it hit the wall.

deltheking

Isell, we are really poor at guesses!! What did they do to the tree tied salesmen?? :P

snakeweasel

What did they do to the tree tied salesmen?

They danced around him chanting "Does anyone want to sell a car today?"

driver100

"...They tied him to a tree and I'll let you guess what they did to him..."

Covered him from head to toe in Mop n Glo?

sterlingdog

I had a student who pulled a knife on me. All that I did was ask her why she didn't do her homework. :surprise: You should have seen the room clear in under 30 seconds.

Richard

driver100

All that I did was ask her why she didn't do her homework.

OMG, what were the boys like?

rlsonline

That's funny. . .No. . They didn't, however, their pictures did stay in the dealership on the 'watch' list!

tallman1

Great! Someone who can post a real sales story. It's been awhile.

Welcome aboard from one of the many non-sales people here!

rlsonline

I'm in luxury car sales and I swear, being in this business sometimes takes the utmost patience. . .One of my fellow saleman has been working this guy financially for about 4 months! Finally got him a way to be approved. The guy comes in and wants to test drive one of each model to see which one he wants. . .He finally decides on one, says its too much money and goes next door to the saturn dealer to buy one from them. . .What a mother gaffer. . .