Stories from the Sales Frontlines

cdnpinhead

. . .there would need to be some slight modifications of that strategy for a Mr.Toyoda.

No doubt -- something about harbor bombers comes to mind.

fushigi

He needs to do what the foreign baseball players did when called before congress to talk about steroids (another total misuse of their time). Pretend to speak no english, and have an IQ of about 20.

They were pretending? :P

Or just say I don't know, I don't recall, and I don't remember to every question.

And therein lies the problem. :sick:

imidazol97

>Ollie North approach - smack them hard and invoke patriotism, love of country, the flag and apple pie. ... there would need to be some slight modifications of that strategy for a Mr.Toyoda.

As long as he drives to the meeting in DC in a Camry it will be fine. NO JETS.
That would be one good reason for toyota to be a US company. Congress does not want auto executives to fly on their private jets.

Congressfolk have an aversion to flying on jets. They never do it themselves.

driver100

As long as he drives to the meeting in DC in a Camry it will be fine. NO JETS.

I would be suspicious if he arrives in a Mercedes. That would tell you something!

graphicguy

verdugo...I mentioned a while back that my son really wanted a Scion Tc when he graduates from college. My protests that it would be bought on his dime didn't do anything to dim his desire......until now.

We were just talking about this yesterday. We both came to the conclusion (after he quoted me verbatim from one of his business ethics courses, and I chastised him for not "thinking for himself"), that these Toyota woes could go in one of two directions.

The hopeful one would be Toyota "gets the message" and becomes more responsible regarding safety and quality of their products quickly. That would hopefully result in much better vehicles from them.

Or, the other one, they could continue to ignore the lessons their current mess should teach them. In that scenario, it would indeed take them years, if not a decade to recover from.

Bottom line, my son has crossed off Toyota made vehicles from his list. He's now all hot and bothered by a Civic Si, or maybe a Fit. How long will his business be lost by Toyota? Good question. But, for at least the next 5 years or so, they've lost him. Makes me wonder how many other customers (or potential customers) they've lost. We know they've lost "mako" and now my son. I would assume this is being repeated over and over again, wherever Toyota is selling their vehicles, throughout the world.

sterlingdog

I have to wonder more than ever if Toyota will go under at some point. I realize that most of you don't agree with that possibility. If there are enough problems and bad publicity, no amount of money will fix the damage. Your son's view may easily be shared by millions. Even if their image improved in 5 or 10 years, imagine the profit losses over that period of time. Could Toyota sustain itself for that long? Covering up problems since 2002 and then bragging about how much money was saved is not something that the public will easily forget. Besides, there are many car makes on the market, both foreign and domestic. Most consumers aren't that loyal to one brand. Just remember that you saw it here first. :P

Richard

stickguy

they do have one advantage. Deep pockets and capacity (I guess that is 2, huh?)

And as Hyundai learned, you can overcome anything just about (reliability concerns, putting out death traps, etc.) if you price your product low enough.'

So quite possilbe Toyota "buys" their customers back (or likely, buy no ones, since they probably don't care who buys the cars, as long as they all sell!).

Rebates, financing, and the all important longer warranty will all get people back into the fold.

imidazol97

In another forum on the net, someone from a dealership or region had been in a meeting. One of the 5 ideas toyota is basing their future on is the positive attitude of many people toward their product, who will continue to buy.

imidazol97

It's amusing because some people were complaining that GM (and others) offered a special incentive to toyota owners for buying GM cars. Last week I saw toyota is offering a $500 loyalty incentive for owners of toyota to buy another toyota. That's the same thing, but I haven't heard anyone complain about toyota offering incentive. I think that's part of the continued lagging indicator goodwill idea that toyota hopes to build on for future sales.

verdugo

without seeing that document, so what? Every company will have stuff like that floating around. You just usually don't see it. THey are in business to make money, so being happy to minimize the cost seems reasonable!

So what? Public relations. When people have died b/c you saved $100M, it doesn't look so good. It was a calculated business decision, which goes against the image that Toyota tried to portray that quality and safety are #1. To make matters worse, people have died (debatable whether it's b/c of this or not). To average person it will be "Toyota values $100M more than they value my safety."

jipster

Jip's post 2 days ago: Just for fun, if he's asking $28k... I'm guessing he'll take $23.5k in a grind session, $24.5k with moderate skill in negotiation, and $25.5k with the take it or watch the door hit me in the rear on the way out offer

Joel: The sale price on the EB would be $24800. I say this now instead of when I give you a difference because it seems as though allot of inquiring minds want to know

hmmm, not too bad on my guesstimate. May have to wander over to "Real World Trade Values" to give Big Stien and the "King" some help. :shades:

Joel played his hand a little early on this one, to the benefit of our "inquiring minds". Richard is playing slow ball under the "Jipst Method" of used car buying... nice work.

I haven't read any further, but I'm guessing Joel will come down another $800 to make the sale (if put thru the grinder). Richard will split the difference and give $24,400... which makes everybody happy. The trade-in is another story though.

tjc78

One of the 5 ideas toyota is basing their future on is the positive attitude of many people toward their product, who will continue to buy.

I know alot of people would think I am crazy, but I would walk into a Toyota dealer right now and buy a car without even thinking twice. We have seven 07 Camry's at work, my Mother has an '09 and I had an 06 Avalon. They were/are all fantastic cars that never failed to do what they were supposed to. I personally think the recall is being over-hyped as is most things by our media.

Just this morning on Good Morning America they had a story about a man who had an accident in a 96 Camry, killed three people and went to jail. Now they are questioning if the car had UA. The recall didn't even cover anything from that time period and IIRC those models didn't even have drive by wire.

houdini1

I think there is a lot of hysteria out there also and I would have no problem buying a Toyota.

My question is if Toyota is guilty of all the things they are being accused of, where has NHTSA been for the last 15 years? If Toyota was able to talk their way out of recalls, etc. wouldn't they have been talking to NHTSA? And where has Congressional oversight over NHTSA been?

IMO a NHTSA representative should be at these hearings to answer these questions and Congress should be asking themselves some questions as well.

joel0622

They talked about that before and they are also being accused of hiring ex NHTSA employees to help guide them through the process.

It is very ugly for them right now. As a Ford Dealer employee I can feel there pain

tjc78

As a Ford Dealer employee I can feel there pain

Yes, Ford recovered from the Explorer tire fiasco and so will Toyota.

joel0622

Ok Richard, now keep in mind I am flying blind here. The worth of a 100K unit is based allot on when you look at it is your first thought "Wow that looks good for a unit with a 100K" Or do you think, "Yep its a 100K unit"

So with that being said I figure your ride at $5000. If we can get some pics to see if it has eye appeal that might change a little.

I am trying to be on the money with all the numbers I give ya.

sterlingdog

Yes, the trade-in is one of the major factors at this point. We also must keep in mind that I will have to add the parking sensors for an additional $400. I would want Joel's dealership to perform the installation. I'm just waiting to hear. He's to talk with the UCM today. Joel also has the same exact Explorer---color, engine, etc. in a 2010 model. It's listed at $36k with a $3k rebate. I'm not sure what the deal would be on that one. We'll just hold that thought in reserve.

Richard

verdugo

Perfect example grapihcguy. Thank you for sharing that. It will be very, very difficult for Toyota to regain your son back. As he grows older, he will be more likely to buy an Accord than a Camry. And then a Pilot than a Highlander.

verdugo

THey are in business to make money, so being happy to minimize the cost seems reasonable!

I thought about this a bit more. They are in the business to "enhance shareholder value." They do that by making money. However, memos like this that got out don't enhance shareholder value. So it was shortsighted. Sure they "saved" $100M now, but in the long term they lost a heck of a lot more.

imidazol97

> I would walk into a Toyota dealer right now and buy a car without even thinking twice.

You should go today. They need your sale.

canadiantoyota

They have also lost my mom. She is looking for a new vehicle and she was considering the RAV4, but I told her to wait. When and if Toyota solves these issues, she will consider their vehicles again. She is now looking at the Hyundai products and at Ford. Once she commits and purchases, Toyota will be out of the running for another 5 to 6 years. They have really dropped the ball....

jayrider

The 36k explorer should be available in the very low 30's easy. 5k trade -- you owe 25-26k. The 09 5-6k less. Depending on your priorities -- should be an easy decision.

joel0622

Richard we were posting at the exact same time. Did you see my trade post? I will check on the new one for you now so you can compare $$.

Do you pay taxes on trade difference or selling price where you live?

joel0622

Also what is your zip code so I can pull programs

sterlingdog

Joel, I do appreciate your trying to be on the money with your figures. I can also appreciate the fact that you are flying blind on the trade-in. Every car owner believes that their trade is a "Wow" model. I can certainly understand your perspective. I do believe that you will be satisfied with its looks.

Before we go into more detail on the trade, let's see if we can finish up with the '09 Explorer price. You are sitting at $24,800 which includes the DOC fee of $375. I see us at $1,588 apart at this point. I am willing to include the $400 parking sensors in that difference and meet you half way on the DOC fee. That's where the $588 of the $1,588 comes in to play. I would want your dealership to do the installation of the sensors.

I look forward to your thoughts on this proposal.

Richard

sterlingdog

Yes, we pay taxes. My zip code is shared with another town nearby. It is 28327. Thanks.

Richard

joel0622

To make sure I understand we are $1188 plus parking sensors away? So your offer on the table is $23612 plus tax and we put reverse sensors on the unit. Am I reading you right?

sterlingdog

You are reading me correctly.

Richard

stickguy

This is great TV (errr, computer?) here. Now one of my favorite reality shows, right up there with biggest loser and amazing race.

Hey, biggest lsoer, that almost fits, doesn't it? Neither Joel of Richard wants the title!

Oh yeah, is the '09 Explorer a certified unit? If so, the 5-6K difference in price over a new one seems to be a very good deal.

gogiboy

Richard--

I concur with your observation about the cover letters. You should see the emails students send me. I realize that email is supposed to be quick, succinct and disposable, but some is also undecipherable. Some of the emails I have received from car salesman were equally bad.

I wish I could remember the word used during a student group oral presentation given in my wife's tech writing course. The word was spelled incorrectly several times on several of their powerpoint pages. With the addition (or omission) of one letter in had a completely different, salacious meaning. Spellcheck was of no help because both the word they meant to use and the one they did use were actual words.

My wife said that she could hardly keep a straight face during the presentation, but afterward not one student in the audience commented on the mistake.

I did send an email to the sports editor of our local paper. In one of his articles he meant to write, ...so-and-so went off in a huff, but instead wrote, "so-and-so went off in a hussy." In my email I was very diplomatic and began, "Dear Mr. Sports Editor--this is a family newspaper! Later I suggested that putting the phrase "going off in" together with "hussy" created a very different picture--and outcome (no pun) than he intended.

Gogiboy

gogiboy

Dear Richard and Joel--

No matter how the back-an-forth Explorer saga ends I want to thank you for entertaining us during the latest lull in sales stories.

Gogiboy

fezo

I did send an email to the sports editor of our local paper. In one of his articles he meant to write, ...so-and-so went off in a huff, but instead wrote, "so-and-so went off in a hussy." In my email I was very diplomatic and began, "Dear Mr. Sports Editor--this is a family newspaper! Later I suggested that putting the phrase "going off in" together with "hussy" created a very different picture--and outcome (no pun) than he intended.

That gets my best laugh of the day award!

jipster

Checked out the car show with my son Saturday morning. After checking out all of Carl's cars, and testing the cotton candy, snow cone, and popcorn vendors, we headed to the new car section. I looked at the Fusion, Sonata, Genesis, Malibu, LaCrosse and the new Buick Regal.

They all looked pretty good. The only thing that stood out was the v8 Genesis didn't have the "WOW" factor I thought it would. It didn't live up to what I was expecting. The Sonata was almost as nice, the equally expensive loaded down LaCrosse was much nicer looking than the Genesis, IMO. I thought the new Buick Regal was pretty sharp looking, was being billed as more of a sports sedan than in the past.The attractive and quite tall female spokesmodel distracted me from getting a really good look at it.

roadburner

My son and I almost went to the show but we wimped out. I liked it better when the New Car Show was a separate event and you could get coupons from a dealer that got you in free or for only a few bucks.

roadburner

My son and I almost went to the show but we wimped out. I liked it better when the New Car Show was a separate event and you could get coupons from a dealer that got you in free or for only a few bucks.

snakeweasel

The word was spelled incorrectly several times on several of their powerpoint pages. With the addition (or omission) of one letter in had a completely different, salacious meaning.

One law class I was taking the professor was discussing real estate law. He started talking about condominiums and abbreviated it "condom" on the blackboard. It took him a while to figure out why everyone was snickering.

explorerx4

suv's were made for people who need to haul stuff and drive around all the cars and minivans that can't make it to the top of the up slopes.
does everyone need one of those? no, but we sure like ours'.

jipster

I liked it better when the New Car Show was a separate event and you could get coupons from a dealer that got you in free or for only a few bucks

It was jammed packed Saturday morning, though we'd beat the crowd getting their 15 minutes early, but everybody and their mama was already there.

Agree with wanting the New Car Show to be a separate event. I wanted to go mainly for the new cars, the $14 admission fee for both is a bit steep for the ole Jipster. :sick:

explorerx4

not only that, Ollie has his attractive admin at his side. he knew how to work the system.

explorerx4

i figured someone would the the irony in that post.

explorerx4

i don't think toyota will go under, but it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few years.
i think the 'boomers' will stick with them, at least toyota. lexus, tbd.

explorerx4

in all these massive recall cases, it is the potential problem that is the elephant.
in the explorer case, although expensive, the correction was pretty straight forward; replace tires.
toyota's situation is not as well defined.

explorerx4

how about that ice hockey Team USA? a couple more wins and they will all be driving new cars. :P
in our family, we all love Sid, but Brodeur is going have to buy all his teammates new cars unless he steps up his game.

exb0

Toyota won't go under, but they will lose some market share. They were hit where it hurts, their marketing strategy. A US auto executive told me once that every manufacturer has its marketing theme: Volvo - safety, BMW - ride, MB - prestige, Chevy - buy American, Toyota and Honda - boring cars, but bullet proof reliability. If they don't have reliability, what do they have left?

My wife and I owned one of those recalled Explorers and the '95 Windstar at one time, at the very mention of Ford my wife says "over my dead body".

roadburner

Agree with wanting the New Car Show to be a separate event. I wanted to go mainly for the new cars, the $14 admission fee for both is a bit steep for the ole Jipster.

You and me both.

graphicguy

If they don't have reliability, what do they have left?

Good question. I was going to make a joke here for a new tag line based on Jon Lovitz's old character on Saturday Night Live, but everybody else has already taken on the good, modified Toyota ad lines. :P

explorerx4

i never owned one of those recalled explorers, but ford did replace the tires on my expedition, under the same recall. i found it a kind of proactive.
to be honest, i have always been a ford guy, and see no reason to change.
are they perfect? no, but obviously, toyota has their own set of different issues.

british_rover

Ever hear of the Ford Pinto memos? I had forgotten about them till another poster at another forum reminded me. They didn't go over well with the public then and we weren't nearly as safety conscious as we are now.

http://www.autosafety.org/uploads/phpq3mJ7F_FordMemo.pdf

For those that do not know, the Ford Pinto debacle spiraled out of control for Ford not just because the cars tended to burst into flames when rear-ended - because a lot of small cars in that era did the exact same thing - but because during one of the inevitable lawsuits, a memo was uncovered that proved that Ford knew about the problem ahead of time, determined that it would cost $137 million to fix the problem, determined that the projected number of injuries/deaths and resulting lawsuits would only cost $49.53 million, and therefore decided to not fix the problem while chalking it up as a net savings. A copy of the 1968 memo is available here.

Quoted from the other forum because he summarized it as well as I could.

roadburner

I checked out Two Rivers web site. I can't believe that you actually ordered several Mustang GTs with the Track Pack. None of the Ford dealers in my area have one- and the salespeople look at me like I have three heads when I ask if they will be getting one in anytime soon. Two dealers have GTs with the Comfort Package and HID headlights-which I'd want-but instead of the Track Pack they include the ridiculous "GT Coupe Accessory Package" which gives you nothing but a bunch of geeky looking fake scoops and spoilers- and ends up costing only $60 less than the Track Pack.
I can hear Billy Crystal channeling Fernando; "Eet ees better to look fast, than to be fast."

explorerx4

that' a pretty damning report. it would be interesting to see the same analysis for another vehicle. also, the passenger cars sales were 11 million and light trucks, 1.5 million.