Stories from the Sales Frontlines

explorerx4

In the mid 90's. I rented a Camry and the 'no feel 'steering scared me, as that was something I was used to having. Other than that, the car was fine for a week.
It was even less connected feeling than GM vehicles.

explorerx4

My senior in high school 'egghead' applied to a university in Nashville.
So far, she has visited every school she has been accepted at, the last 2 after being accepted. Maybe another road trip on the horizon?
She and my wife took our 09 Escape and said the Nav was great. One time, they called me and said we are 312 miles from home.
I will have to ask them how the satellite radio worked out.
Was able to write off the sales tax (6%), so that was nice, too.

kyfdx

Vanderbilt? That's a really nice school.. We visited last spring..

sterlingdog

I beg to differ. Every fact about that car regarding a possible purchase is relevant to me. The type of industry gives me psychological clues as to how the car was driven by the employee of the company. When I was doing a minor in psychology, I took a course in industrial psychology. It was most revealing. Depending on the industry, employees have certain characteristics that are exhibited in their relationships. This particular employee had a relationship with this car. Knowing the industry helps me to understand that relationship.

Joel is a good guy and I would never question his opinion about a car. Still, we all have opinions based on our experiences. As the customer, I am obligated to find out as much as I can about a potential purchase. Remember, I am in the customer mode here. It's my money and my decision. I'm the one who will have to live with the results. Hang on big boy. We could be in for a bumpy ride. :P

I continue to welcome your input. Your opinions are as valuable as all of the others.

Richard

driver100

Other than that, the car was fine for a week.
It was even less connected feeling than GM vehicles

I agree, GMs have more feel of the road than Toyotas. I think people who are knowledgeable about cars and driving like that feeling. But, people who aren't that knowledgeable, and just want a car that is economical and reliable don't really care.

In fact, many people think the easier the steering, the more they like it. It is the right formula though for selling lots of cars.

driver100

The type of industry gives me psychological clues as to how the car was driven by the employee of the company.

What if he was a chicken plucker? What would that tell you?

Just curious :P

driver100

Here are some comparables, seems like a fair price.
First price is MSRP second is dealer invoice.

MSRP Invoice Engine
2010 Ford Explorer RWD 4dr XLT

Overview | Prices | Photos | Features | Request a Quote $29,280 $27,404 4.0L/245
2010 Ford Explorer 4WD 4dr Eddie Bauer

Overview | Prices | Photos | Features | Request a Quote $31,600 $29,516 4.0L/245
2010 Ford Explorer AWD 4dr Limited

Overview | Prices | Photos | Features | Request a Quote $31,600 $29,516 4.0L/245
2010 Ford Explorer RWD 4dr Eddie Bauer

href="http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2010-ford-explorer-rwd-4dr-eddie-bauer.htm">new 2010 eddie bauer

sterlingdog

While preparing dinner this evening, I saw a sad commercial by the owner of a Toyota dealership (not the stinkers in my town). First, he sincerely apologized to his Toyota customers for what has happened. He went on to say that he had hired additional service personnel to fix all problems in a timely manner. He also pointed out that not all models were recalled. He invited the public to come in and look at those models. He concluded by having all of his staff and service personnel pictured with him. The commercial was tastefully done. If I was a customer of his, I would feel that the owner was doing all that he could to make things right with the world.

Richard

sterlingdog

Though I love you, you do have those moments when you can be such a smart [non-permissible content removed]. :shades:

A chicken plucker would brake sharply, initiate quick starts, drive excessive speeds, slam doors, blow the horn, have fits of road rage, and not wipe their shoes off before entering the vehicle. They spend their lives in the destructive mode. Also, it is doubtful that the owner of a poultry processing plant would lease an Eddie Bauer Explorer for one of his chicken pluckers. Is your curiosity now satisfied?

Richard

imidazol97

>It was even less connected feeling than GM vehicles.

Those broad generalizations about GM bother me. My two leSabres have great road feel through the steering. My Cobalt has good feeling of the road also, but it's different because it's electric assist. There is no wander or loss of control at the center of the range--for a straight down the road line.

Light steering has always bothered me. I like to feel what the road pull is doing to the steering.

sterlingdog

Thanks for the research. I, too, have been investigating. I can't give you my facts yet. I don't want to blow my cover.

Richard

deltheking

Richard,
I know Joel must have checked out the car and it must be in great condition-and absolutely no doubt on that... But I feel 27.5k for an Explorer 2WD is on the higher side.Of course , I dont know what all extra options are on it in addition to the regular Eddie Bauer features , but still it is an Explorer. It's price is entering into the used luxury car territory here. Yup ,certainly room here for your 5-6 hr grinding with breakfast and lunch intervals. :P

They depreciate badly compared to others like Honda Pilot or Toyota Sequoia and reliability is just average as per CR with some transmission minor problems.Its "" Ride comfort, noise suppression, and interior fit and finish are supposed to be behind the times" LOL ! .. I dont know if you have tried other SUV`s. Just my opinion.. Your choice though.. Your money- so you are the boss! :shades:

Good luck with your grinding car purchase.. Should be one jumpy jittery ride !!

nyccarguy

richard - I'll bring my camera to work Monday and try to get some decent pictures to post.

graphicguy - My Dad's use for the Tahoe is strictly commuting (with 2 Great Danes) back and forth to work. We do get some snow here in NY (this year much more than most), so the 4WD will be greatly utilized.

Along with the 2.9% financing for 60 months, GM backs the Tahoe with a 5 year/100K Mile Powertrain warranty. Because it is his first domestic car that he bought (he's been leasing since 1991), he bought the GM Bumper to Bumper (No Deductable) Warranty to match the Powertrain Warranty. If everything goes well, he'll have 140,000 miles on the Tahoe in 7 years.

nyccarguy

Funny you guys should mention this, but last month when I brought our X3 in for service I wandered around the showroom checking out some of the offerings of one of my favorite marquees.

A bleached blonde haired woman in her 50's pulls up in a beautiful 2008 or 2009 Jaguar XKR (Jersey Plates) with her teenage son. They greet their salesman (someone who they obviously dealt with before). The kid is checking out the Black M3 Coupe that I've been drooling over (think I wiped most of the drool off) & makes a remark to the salesman how he "hot" he thinks the coupe is (funny, the car seemed cool to the touch...LOL). The salesman says something to the effect of "you just got the sedan, now you want the coupe?" At this point I don't know whether to vomit or beat the kid with my shoe.

The Mom is checking out the 750i with X drive. The salesman (who had tons of product knowledge) was explaining the differences between the "i" & the "Li" as well as how the Xdrive (AWD) system works. The kid is firing off questions left and right about the Mercedes S550 & Audi A8... He was asking about everything from torque curves to rear legroom & wheelbase. The salesman obviously knew who he was dealing with & was very professional. I was ready to take this priviledged individual and smack him.

isellhondas

Oh, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with high line customers and their endless questions about things few people care about!

lrguy44

Richard, You know I respect your education, values, beliefs and opinions. However, may I inject my real world experience for your reflections were . I spent 25 years in the corporate world . During that time I had 24 company cars, all of which were leased. The last 14 years were in the industrial gas industry. All of us in sales and marketing were college graduates and most were military and many were reservists like me. I can tell you that how the cars were driven varied from individual to individual. Some were driven like race cars and others were babied. You could not tell by appearance, background or any othe rtraits how one drove. Some of the biggest party animals drove carefully and some of the most conservative individuals would be AJ Foyt behind the wheel. I look forward to your input and analysis.

tidester

What if he was a chicken plucker? What would that tell you?

I disagree with Richard's assessment. A chicken plucker would be a very discerning individual, i.e. very picky. Chicken pluckers spend their working hours preparing food to feed the world and sparing others of onerous and discomforting tasks. Therefore, he would be a very nurturing and caring individual. Being concerned about the welfare and well-being of all those he feeds, he would likely be a polite and safe driver not wanting to bring harm to any of them.

Actually, I knew a family of chicken pluckers. They had a poultry store in the town where I grew up and they were simply the most wonderful people around being generous, caring, kind, gentle, upstanding, honest and just plain nice. And they were all good drivers too! :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

lrguy44

I obviously also do not agree. To me it smacks of generalization which always can lead to false conclusions.

driver100

If I was a customer of his, I would feel that the owner was doing all that he could to make things right with the world.

I have heard Toyota dealers interviewed and I think they are sincere...also they have had a good run with Toyota and believe it will continue.

Upper management I am not so sure about, they are slow to admit responsibility. They are also slow in replacing parts or doing recalls.

Personally, the whole issue doesn't mean much to me, especially after renting a Camry and RAV4, because I wouldn't buy one, but if I was a Toyota fan, I would have no qualms about buying one....the problems will get resolved. They might have to come out with a 100k warranty though.

driver100

A chicken plucker would brake sharply, initiate quick starts, drive excessive speeds, slam doors, blow the horn, have fits of road rage, and not wipe their shoes off
Is your curiosity now satisfied?
Yes, I always wondered about that.
I think you did leave out "plucky" though ( Synonyms
courageous, determined; cheerful; spunky, spirited.)

driver100

Those broad generalizations about GM bother me. My two leSabres have great road feel through the steering

Everything is relative though. I would say the same about my 2000 Jeep or my 92 Cavalier, until I drove a Mercedes. There will be a huge difference. The steering in a MB or BMW is between power and non - power steering. It will require more effort, but that's a good thing if you want superb handling.

If you tried it and said, that's not for me, it isn't light and floaty...I would understand, it isn't for everyone. But, it does have to be experienced to be believed. The first time I tried it was on a 10 year old MB loaner car....and it was the most amazing experience to have such precise control and feel of the road.

driver100

I can't give you my facts yet. I don't want to blow my cover.

Good idea, there are too many 3rd basemen getting involved already.

Speaking of which....I had four company cars and I would say I took good care of them.
One salesmen I know used to like to go from drive into reverse and see how fast he could go doing that. I don't know. Might be good to find out what company it was, and then why the salesman had to give up his car after one year. Was he fired, DUI, too many speeding tickets............

driver100

A chicken plucker would be a very discerning individual, i.e. very picky.

You did put "picky" on there on purpose I assume. I once met a chicken catcher. When we were looking to buy a house once, the owner was a chicken catcher and he would catch about 1000 a day. Ran around and got about 4 by their feet in each hand!

I should have checked out his car to see what it looked like. If I knew I would need that information one day I would have researched it much better.

graphicguy

Was going out to dinner with a good friend of mine last evening. Got to the busy street where the restaurant was, and saw the weirdest, probably saddest site, I've seen in awhile.

A Ford Windstar, with a HUGE spoiler wing on the back of it's roof (believe me, that's something that's something I chuckled about( had rear ended a SMART car. Don't know if anyone was injured, and don't know the speed the Windstar was going at the time. But, I doubt if even Campbell's Soup could have used what was left of the SMART car. Didn't see any ambulance. And, it looked like whomever was driving either vehicle was engaged in an animated conversation. So, it looked like no one was hurt.

Still, if I had any serious ambition to own a SMART car, it would have disappeared immediately after seeing that.

On another note, I was meeting up with another couple, the one who ordered the SHO. He just got it yesterday. Gotta admit, Ford did a nice job on that car. A little cheap looking in some areas on the inside, but overall, well done by Ford. I didn't drive it, but he took me for a brief spin. It's fast. Felt very heavy from the passenger's seat, so I don't know how it handles. I think Ford is going to have a winner on their hands with the Taurus line up.

jipster

I obviously also do not agree. To me it smacks of generalization which always can lead to false conclusions.

I agree with Richard. It's all about playing the percentages. Why are insurance rates so much higher for teenage and young 20's drivers... because generally they are more wreckless and inexperienced. Generalizations, used in the proper context, would be a good way in choosing one car over another, when closely matched. I'll take the car driven by the 45 year old mother of two... over the identical car driven by a 23 year old male who's financed by mom and dad.

oldfarmer50

"...the history is not relevant..."

Oh boy, I see Joel has been spending those $10 bills on more than lunch. :P

To my mind, the history is the ONLY thing relevant. In the back of every buyer's mind is that little little video loop wherein the previous owner is seen beating the heck out of the vehicle as he trades shots with law enforcement. That's the mental starting point and a good sales person can start to replace that image with pictures of little old ladies driving to church. Once you have assured the buyer that the vehicle wasn't Demo Derby driven by the previous owner you can deal on a more rational basis.

That's how a sales person would create value with me.

joel0622

Richard, I don't know who the end user was I just know it was a major fleet lease through PV Holdings. The unit has been on the lot for 32 days

sterlingdog

"Should be one jumpy jittery ride!!"

I appreciate your thoughts, but you're being too hard on Explorers. My '03 Explorer XLT that I love hasn't been jumpy or jittery. I've never had a single problem with the transmission. The ride, comfort, and noise suppression have been good. Also, I don't agree with the depreciation being bad. I paid roughly $23K seven years ago, and now it is worth roughly $5K (some sources say up to $7K). For illustration purposes, we'll say it is worth $5K. That works out to $18K over the seven years of ownership. $18K divided by 7 is $2,571.43 per year. That depreciation doesn't seem bad to me. I could be wrong because I'm not in the car biz.

I can't really discuss your opinion about the price being too high because I haven't begun negotiations with Joel yet. Stay tuned. You'll see my thoughts soon. Thanks for the input. This is interesting.

Richard

snakeweasel

Somehow I picture chicken pluckers, especially the fast ones where feathers are flying all over the place, as ones who would be sneezing all the way home.

Now what about pheasant pluckers?

jayrider

Richard -- if you haven't done so already, Joel does have a contact email posted so some info can be exchanged privately. Contacted him myself with a question which was answered in a timely fashion.

mako1a

I saw a local dealer with a Mustang GT on ebay. However he listed it as a coupe, not a GT. So I bid in the $8300 range and hit "currently hi bid" . This is an $11000 car so I felt safe bidding up to the 10k range.

Then I get an email from the dealer congratulating me. He said do you have a trade? OK here's where the plot thickens. I say I have a 2010 Avalon I want rid of. He says bring it in. I say not until you give me a hi-lo buy price will I dig out the foot of snow in front of my garage door. (hasn't moved in 3 weeks).

Now we have a standoff. He keeps telling me to "come on in". Now to me the ebay bid has nothing to do with ridding myself of the Avalon. To him he just wants to see how much do re mi I have to leave at his dealership.

Still no response to my hi-lo request. Bidding on Mustang ends in 1 hour. Here's the link. link title

Somebody needs to call this guy and let him know there is money to be made here, but he has to come to my way of doing business first. Even if I go to his dealership I'll spend no more than 10 minutes waiting for a price on the Avalon. No price equals no deal. However I may still pick up the Mustang as long as it doesn't go over 10k.

sterlingdog

I can't deny that you make an excellent argument. In trying to get a general idea, I do realize that generalizations can certainly cloud the picture of one individual or, in this case, one car. My curiosity about the type of company is just one of the many things that I would like to know about the vehicle. It certainly isn't a major deciding factor. It's just extra information to ponder.

Your 25 years in the corporate world enables you to see this picture very objectively. Having leased 24 cars, you know what you're talking about. I respect that very much. Thanks for the input.

Richard

sterlingdog

It absolutely blows my mind that you actually knew a family of chicken pluckers! Only Tidester! I'm sure the family was extremely nice. Herein lies a point. Being a family business, each member has a vested interest in the business. That impacts psychologically on how they view their roles and responsibilities. It puts the worker in a better frame of mind.

A hired chicken plucker making $5 or $6 per hour would view things differently. They don't enjoy the tasks and they don't receive any greater benefits for a job well done. They would tend to view the world as a "gotcha" environment with no upward mobility. If they drove the company car, an unlikely event, they wouldn't have the desire or inclination to take care of it. In fact, they would probably be bitter that they didn't own a nice car like this one. Also, their background probably did not teach them the value of things or the importance of taking care of what you have been given.

Thanks for the input. Hopefully, we'll hear from Joel soon. On with the show!

Richard

graphicguy

mako.....looked at the link. All Mustangs (except the convertibles) are coupes. It's a V8, so that automatically makes it a GT. Saw the current bid of $8,800. But, the reserve hasn't been met.

Don't know what to tell you on the Avalon. If the guy won't put a number on it with a qualifier (have to see it), then I don't suppose there's any way to force him to do it.

Could be they put the car up on ebay to get some traffic. Don't know what the reserve is, so hard to tell.

In short, sounds like until you get the Avalon dug out, and presented it to the dealer, this is a non-starter as far as trading it in.

oldfarmer50

Something smells funny here. You Bid $8,800 for a car that in base model appraises for over $15K here on Edmunds? Maybe I'm paranoid but that sounds too good to be true. I'd want to see the car first.

BTW, the site says "reserve not met".

I know very little about E-Bay so I may be just blowing smoke here.

sterlingdog

That was my point exactly. Thanks.

Richard

british_rover

I already told you what the Avalon was worth on a blind bid.

I doubt anyone is going to give you more without seeing it.

As to the mustang how do you figure it is an 11k car?

My wholesale book puts that car between 14,500 and 15,500 with an automatic and leather.

Figure 17,500-18,500 retail.

Even a six cylinder with leather is worth more then 11k wholesale so how do you buy one for 11k retail?

sterlingdog

That's ok. I was just curious. I do have two other questions. The list of options does not indicate rear A/C. Surely, the Eddie Bauer edition has it. Could you check? Also, does it by chance have the parking sensors? I didn't see it on the list. Perhaps that is only new on the 2010's. Thanks.

Richard

sterlingdog

Thanks. I knew that. We're posting here just to make an interesting experience for all of you. I don't mind if all of you see the deal. Naturally, I won't be putting my Soc.Sec. #, checking account #, etc. here.

Richard

mako1a

My email to Cole 1 hour ago:
YooHoo, Harold. I'm still waiting on the hi-lo numbers on the Avalon. Give me something to go on. I have a foot of snow blocking my garage door presently and will not dig it out without a reason to drive the 30 miles to your dealership. Talk to me...time on ebay is running out and you'll see me no more. Peters Creek road has many Acuras and Mustangs. Ball is in your court. Dave

Response: Working on the rough number…give me a little time

I was hi bid on the Mustang with $9100 but reserve not met. Still waiting on old Harold to put a number on the Avalon. I may do something yet.

ps BR, I didn't get to be independently wealthy by paying attention to retail prices.

Richard, stop troubling yourself over a used 2WD Explorer. Buy a new one from Joel just the way you want it and then the show will go on.

jayrider

If a seller on ebay contacts you before the auction is over and inquires about a trade he is looking for leads. The reserve may be out of line as well. There is no buy it now price so the reserve could be 20k. Doesn't sound right. You committing to buy is totally separate from any trade-in concerns.

jipster

A hired chicken plucker making $5 or $6 per hour would view things differently.

I believe chicken pluckers make pretty good money. They get paid per chicken plucked. So, like salesmen... they don't pluck, they don't eat. A chicken catcher, on the other hand, can really rake it in, about $60k a year for a good chicken catcher, $90k a year for a hall of fame type of chicken catcher. But, not many people want to go into these stinky hot chicken warehouses and run after flapping/pecking/scratching chickens for 10 hours a day... so pays pretty good if any of you are interested. Chicken catcher may make for a good episode on the "Dirtiest Jobs" show... another good episode for that show may be Edmunds host. :P

british_rover

Doesn't matter how you got to be independently wealthy or not but retail prices still matter because they are based off wholesale prices.

Sure you will get a score from time to time on a used car and buy one under wholesale but that doesn't happen often. If a dealer can wholesale a car for 11,000 why would he bother to sell it to you retail for 10,000? On top of that if he wholesales it he doesn't have to offer any kind of warranty or meet any state safety specs. If he retails it he does.

Best example of this is a car with no spare tire. If we retail it then it has to have a spare tire or runflats on it. If we wholesale it then it doesn't matter. On some cars no spare tire could be a 300-500 dollar difference.

I will lose a little money to gain a retail customer to sell a car a little below wholesale but not more then a few hundred dollars. It just doesn't make business sense.

sterlingdog

You are probably correct. I can certainly afford a new one. It's that Scottish blood. I'm such a tight [non-permissible content removed] about money. I always think that I can save that "drive off the lot depreciation" by purchasing a one year old vehicle, especially if it is a program car.

Richard

sterlingdog

Good grief! I had no idea that chicken pluckers/catchers made that kind of money. When I had a chicken house as a teenager, I didn't make that kind of money. It was hard, nasty work for a few dollars profit. My dad sure knew how to teach a lesson in economics. Talk about giving me an incentive to go to college!

Richard

houdini1

Now what about pheasant pluckers?

Let's see you type that real fast 10 times in a row.

joel0622

Richard, yes on the rear air. It may be listed on the equipment list as "High Capacity" thats what Ford calls it, or it may just be assumed because it is standard on the EB model and no on the reverse sensors. if those are important to you they can be added.

sterlingdog

Great on the rear air. How much to add the sensors?

Richard

grandtotal

I'd rather buy from a pheasant plucker. At least the deal would be done in a congenial atmosphere.

[Edit] Darn, I see that snakeweasel beat me to it. The old jokes really are the old jokes.

tidester

You did put "picky" on there on purpose I assume.

Of course! I'm glad somebody caught it.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper