Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jipster

I wasn't going to mention it to Joel, but the members of the sales staff look worn out, ...that young guy is every customer's dream

Them dudes looked hung over to me. Those Ford guys must know how to party.

The young dude looks like a wise guy... similar in mode to Eddie Haskel from Leave It To Beaver. :surprise:

houdini1

Hang in there with you son and give him all the help he needs and you will never regret it. Some day you will be wondering how in the heck he got so smart and mature and he will be helping you !!

verdugo

I might be able to entice him with my ribs, corn bread, banana pudding, and plenty of beer.

That'd work for me.

sterlingdog

"Throw in some grits..."

Only if I get to ride the bike.

Richard

sterlingdog

If he's a wise [non-permissible content removed], it would be even more fun to rip him off. If he met the two of us, he wouldn't stand a chance.

Richard

sterlingdog

You're invited, too. I'll let you check the paper work to make sure it's in good shape.

Richard

lrguy44

Thanks Brandon - where do I send the check?

joel0622

I am suprised the young guy isn't the tired looking one. He works here, goes to Law School, and he and his wife just had a new baby about 3 months ago.

sterlingdog

A car salesman about to become a lawyer? He certainly selected the two most trusting professions. :shades:

ducking and running

Richard

graphicguy

Richard...Houdini...thanks so much for the kind words. I really appreciate them.

There are days when I feel good about the parental job I've done. There are other days where I have doubts about my parenting skills. But, my son has made it this far and he's no worse for the wear. So, I tip my hat to him. He's going to do well.....no doubt better than his Father ever dreamed of doing. But, that's the way it's supposed to be.

Back to cars.....lr, isell I do tend to agree with you on the prices paid forum. I only peak over there on occasion....particularly if I'm in the market, like I am now.

Even given the differences in geographic locations, I look at some of those prices and think to myself..."why would any dealer sell anything at or below their cost?", as some have posted. I also keep thinking to myself..."I'm a relatively savvy car buyer and there's no way I could swing that sort of deal."

If some of those prices are to be believed, particularly in the new car category, there's something, somewhere in the deal that the dealership made money on. Could be undervaluing the trade. Or, perhaps there was a huge "doc fee", doubling up on the delivery fee, bumped up finance rates a couple of points, added in dealer installed options, etc.

Unless I've done poor research, or am just all out of whack the way I buy (I may very well be all out of whack), there's no way I could swing some of the deals some of those posters have done.

Perhaps it is one upmanship. I've read just about every car buying "theory" out there to get the best deal. Some work for me. Some don't.

I think, just like the sales people have a selling style, buyers adopt the buying style they're the most comfortable with. While there are still some unscrupulous dealerships out there (just like there are some unscrupulous buyers), for the most part, they're honest and will do the best job they can to make the sale, if it's at all possible.

Wanna keep from getting hosed? Don't shop at those less than scrupulous dealerships. Want a good deal? Do a little homework. There's plenty of places (like here at Edmunds, which is my fave) that you can get a wealth of information from to help you get a good deal.

I never could understand why anyone would buy anything from a person, or a store, that they didn't trust.

mikefm58

Wanna keep from getting hosed? Don't shop at those less than scrupulous dealerships

One thing I might add, those less than scrupulous places do not get my business, not at any price, not even if the match or beat my ideal price. I make it clear why they lost my business and move on.

Based on past experiences of myself and co-workers at Universal Nissan and Don Reed Nissan, both here in Orlando, I don't see myself ever buying a new Nissan.

imidazol97

>a new baby about 3 months ago.

That'll do it for making anyone tired.

exb0

GG, just about a year ago I was shopping for Honda Odyssey and CR-V. Some of the email quotes I received were very close to the lowest prices on the Prices Paid forums. I purchased the CR-V for $1000 under invoice, however, there were $500 in trunk money. I didn't grind at all, I paid the price that was quoted to me in the first reply to my request.

Disclaimer, I am in very competitive market. There are 36 Honda stores in 50 mile radius of my house. You saw the G37x prices posted on dealers' web sites, how believable are those?

joel0622

BTW, that '09 red Eddie Bauer Explorer is beautiful! To have 15K miles, it doesn't look as if a human being ever sat in the vehicle. The wood trim, leather color, exterior trim, etc. looks so sharp. Let's see now. How far am I from Nashville?

I will meet ya half way and help you allot on the net price. Just for chits and giggles let me know the particulars on your Explorer and we will see what a difference would be.

oldfarmer50

As I type this Larry Cudlow and Jim Cramer on CNBC are shouting down a guest who suggested that now may be a good time to buy a Toyota. They are screaming " Ford, Ford, buy a Ford! They never took a dime and they are taking market share more and more!"

I thought Joel would like to know.

oldfarmer50

"...I have not closed a "Jipster" or a "Snake" yet..."

How about any "Oldfarmers"? As a New Yorker I have never heard of a car dealer who would come to your home, particularly with a used car. Most New Yorkers would probably suspect that you were coming to case their house for a later break-in. Not a lot of trust up here.

A friend of my son's just sold his early 90s Accord to a guy from Texas through Craigslist. The first thought in my head was "Scam" but it seems this buyer wired the money into the seller's bank account with nothing more than the seller's promise that he would send the title in the mail. I went over with him all the possible frauds and it seems to be a legit deal.

I don't think I would be so trusting. It must be a southern thing. :confuse:

british_rover

Cramer has been saying to buy Ford Preferred Stock, not the common stock thought it was too risky and the preferred has a good dividend, for the past year plus.

oldfarmer50

"...everybody says they got a killer deal..."

You mean like: "I bought a nearly new 22 year-old van for only $900 in almost perfect condition!". Kinda like that? :lemon:

fezo

A car salesman about to become a lawyer? He certainly selected the two most trusting professions.

He's going to go for the trifecta and run for office....

british_rover

Err I think you responded to the wrong person.

But to continue that theme.

Yeah he is going to run for Gov of SC, IL and NY back to back. :P

deltheking

Yup OF ,it`s a very Southern thing . I was in NYC before and I moved to Texas about 10 years back.. Trust wise,totally different down here. Folks here dont even lock their houses sometimes and much more approachable. No one in NY is gonna wave at a stranger. Here if you go walking you greet everyone and wave to them and pretty much the same thing at other events too even if you have never met.. :shades:

deltheking

Here`s a Forbes link to - 10 ways to outwit a car dealer!!
Sad that in this age of internet and online car shopping- sites still peddle these stereotypes.
link title

tallman1

I do tend to agree with you on the prices paid forum.

I stopped hanging out in the prices paid forum as well. Of course, I'm not in the market now.

It would frustrate me that many posters with "great" new car deals wouldn't mention a trade-in but when you pushed it you found out that indeed a trade was involved. That was usually where the dealer made the money.

houdini1

I had a woman in front of me yesterday in a car wash who was simply too dumb to follow simple directions. This is one of those washes where you put your car in neutral and a little roller pushes on your tire and moves you along.

For some reason every now and then she decided she wanted to stop, so when she felt the roller start to move her car she would jam on the brakes and the roller would slip under her tire. In the meantime I am gaining on her and about to hit her. I have no choice but to jam on my brakes also. Now the car behind me is gaining on me and actually bumped me once (another woman). Thankfully no damage was done and I finally got out of there with no damage. I won't be going back when they are busy.

imidazol97

>me once (another woman).

Now that's a story! :P

The only times I've been hit in a car was from the rear and by women drivers. The first one was I was making a left turn into the Ford dealer on a highway in town. She hit me with a carload of kids in a full-sized Ford, red in color. She said she didn't see me! The car salesmen were looking out the front windows and said she was looking toward the dealership the whole time, so it's no wonder she didn't see me.

Ruined my Mustang. Bent the windshield pillars forward.

Second was an S-10 type pickup and the lady driver just didn't see to see me stopping to make a left turn. I saw her coming behind me. Never heard a reason she didn't see us. Ruined the taillights on our Century.

michaellno

+1 on the story.

I've got a better one .. was bumped in a similar type car wash by the lady behind us who accelerated through the wash, rather than put the car in neutral and let the rollers push the car along.

Now, there is an attendant at the front of the wash who points out how you're supposed to do things:

car in neutral
foot off brake
hands off steering wheel

Sheesh.

graphicguy

exb0....I think in a competitive marketplace, like your wealth of Honda dealerships, "deals" are easier to get. Still, some of the prices paid I've seen are hundreds in back of holdback, after any incentives are deducted. To me, that doesn't make any sense.

Why would a dealership sell a unit and lose money on it? Something, somewhere doesn't add up. Either the truth is being stretched, or there's something in the deal that allowed the dealer to make a few bucks.....whether it be underallowing for a trade, or something else. Not a very good business model if you make a habit of losing money on the products you sell.

Regarding your CR-V, when I helped my friend buy a CR-V a few months ago, we got the incentives and probably got a little bit of their holdback, too. But, not the majority of it. It was a leftover '09, their last one, to be exact. And, they were anxious to move it as it had been buried way in their back lot. Looked like it had been there for awhile, too since it was filthy.

But, those scenarios are more the exception than the rule.

I've been watching the prices paid on the G37 forums. There's clearly some money on leftover '09s (since the 2010s are already out) that isn't accounted for on rebates. I've got a quote from a local Ininiti dealership that's deducted the marketing cash, as well as dug into what appears to be their holdback, too. But, they're notorious for holding margin since they're the only Infiniti dealer in town. That tells me there's cash back from Infiniti that's not been published anywhere.

Mentioned before, Hyundai does "secret" cash to the dealers as it's been published they do that regularly. Don't know how much it is, or on which vehicles. But, considering what prices I've seen on the Genesis, there's extra cash coming to the dealerships from Hyundai.

british_rover

We sold a XC70 for $1,500 plus behind invoice minus all incentives this month. That $1,500 behind didn't even include bringing the car in from another dealer, cleaning it preping it and paying me. You figure after all that it was $2,000 plus behind and no we don't have a crazy doc fee just $299. No trade involved and it was lease but no money made on the back end of the lease either.

Now that doesn't count the back end money from Volvo but that money also doesn't go directly to the deal like holdback at say a Honda or Domestic store. That money is out there and it would offset a lot of that loss but we only get all of it if we meet other standards and objectives from Volvo.

Why did we do that?

We were told to sell XX New Volvos this month period end of story. To get to that XX number we have to take a couple of stupid deals like that one.

I can see that happening from time to time at other stores but in general I agree those prices are just made up or you only know have the story.

oldfarmer50

"...I had a woman in front of me yesterday in a car wash..."

She was probably just "grinding" for more time in the wash. :sick:

When I was in college I worked in a car wash like you describe. Every once in a while we'd have someone who wouldn't listen to the instructions of: "Shift in neutral, foot off the brake". It led to the kind of bumper car thing you went through. I'd have to walk out into the wash spray, bang on the window and scream for them to get their foot off the brake. They would have this deer in the headlights look that indicated how disoriented they were.

One elderly woman had the opposite problem. About half-way through the wash she stepped on the gas and went flying through hitting the brushes and dryers with loud bangs. It must have done a number on her car but once out on the street she just kept going and never returned. :confuse:

jayrider

When I bought my 09 murano in 10/08, the dealer was under pressure to move them for some reason. Easy deal --msrp around 34k -- sold for 29k no rebates or customer cash involved.Below invoice and he gave up most of the holdback. That was his first price quote on the phone after I asked for the price to buy that day. Drove there and did the deal. Even got free oil changes every 3750 miles. Never asked for that perk. No stuff at closing either. I referred 2 other folks who got similar deals in 08. They are still in business so I doubt they lost money -- actually doing better -- lots more floor traffic and the deals on those muranos may not be as good -- who knows. Figure I was in the right place at the right time.

oldfarmer50

"..To get to that XX number we have to take a couple of stupid deals..."

I can't understand the wisdom in that. If my neighbor tells me about the fantastic deal he got and I run over only to find the price is higher I would think something stinks. It sounds like it would be tailor made to cause hard feelings.

On the other hand, if some of our "grinders" know that such a deal is possible they may return again and again hoping that "today is the day" you will be selling below cost. Again that would seem to be a big pain. :confuse:

Or are you saying that the advice to shop at the end of the month is valid?

british_rover

I can't understand the wisdom in that. If my neighbor tells me about the fantastic deal he got and I run over only to find the price is higher I would think something stinks. It sounds like it would be tailor made to cause hard feelings.

If someone comes in and wants the same deal on a car assuming I can get the same car, this was a base car so not many out there, then sure I would do it. If you can't get the car then the price goes up.

On the other hand, if some of our "grinders" know that such a deal is possible they may return again and again hoping that "today is the day" you will be selling below cost. Again that would seem to be a big pain.

Possibly could happen but that happens anyway.

Or are you saying that the advice to shop at the end of the month is valid?

Possibly but once we hit our XX number what incentive do we have to sell well below cost at the end of the month? The XX number is a pretty hard one to hit maybe towards the end of the month we won't take as many stupid deals. Maybe we push them off to the beginning of next month.

houdini1

once out on the street she just kept going and never returned

LOL, come to think of it, that is exactly what I did.

Seriously though, if people get that confused and disoriented in a simple car wash, I guess I can better understand how someone would panic and forget to shift to neutral in a runaway car.

snakeweasel

Why would a dealership sell a unit and lose money on it?

They might on an odd color and/or option combination that sits on the lot with little or no interest. The longer it sits there the more it costs, it make sense to get something for it then take that money and invest it in something that will sell.

I think I told the story of many years ago when the wife was in one of her SUV moods. We went to look at Hondas and the salesman told me he had a great deal. Went to the back lot and saw the most horrendous CR-V that you could imagine It was all decked out with a furry dashboard, bad paint job, wing on it and a few other simply awful things attached to it. It was a brand new vehicle that they got on a dealer trade (only had like 30 or 40 miles on it). The salesmans first offer was something like 20-25% off the MSRP.

sterlingdog

Let's just see how far this deal will go. I think that the posters might enjoy this. Wouldn't it be a hoot if we actually did the deal on this thread? The Hosts shouldn't mind. It will increase their ratings.

You have an '09 red Eddie Bauer Explorer with 15K miles. You're asking $28K.

First, is this a program car, a rental, or a one owner lease? Secondly, did it come from an auction or was it a trade on a new car?

It's your turn.

Richard

sterlingdog

I'm sorry. I misquoted your price. Your internet price is $28,733.

Richard

jipster

You have an '09 red Eddie Bauer Explorer with 15K miles. You're asking $28K.

Just for fun, if he's asking $28k... I'm guessing he'll take $23.5k in a grind session, $24.5k with moderate skill in negotiation, and $25.5k with the take it or watch the door hit me in the rear on the way out offer. :shades:

imidazol97

I've always noticed numbers and have chosen telephone numbers that are easy for people to remember for various reasons, like phonic spelling of my name.
I noticed your dealer's number: 800, 900, 1000. I love that sequential number pattern.

nyccarguy

to stimulate the good old US economy. My Dad took delivery of his Red Jewel Tintcoat 2010 LTZ Chevrolet Tahoe. He ordered the truck (giving factory workers & parts suppliers work), instead of buying a lot queen & got what he wanted. It is going to take some getting used to as he's coming out of a Sport Package Equipped '07 X5. The truck really looks fantastic. Rugged looking & beautiful all at once.

sterlingdog

Can you send us a picture? I bet that it is really pretty.

Richard

sterlingdog

Did you mean before we negotiate on the trade? :P :shades:

Richard

dtezla

Regarding Craigslist deals - I was looking at buying a used motorcycle on craigslist earlier this week. On his sale post he mentioned that the bike had been in storage for 3 years. When I asked him if I could take it down the road to a motorcycle dealer to look at, he said it couldn't be ridden since it was uninsured. I wasn't about to buy a bike without having it looked at, so I contacted my insurance company to see what to do. They let me know I could insure it for the time needed to get it looked at.

When I wrote the guy back that I could insure it & provide proof of insurance he got all squirelly. He refused to give me a VIN & didn't want a mechanic to look at it. RED FLAGS. Most likely some sort of scam or the guy knew there was something wrong with the bike. Why else wouldn't you want a buyer to take the bike 4 miles to a mechanic to have it checked.

Beware of scammers!

graphicguy

nyc....that's a nice vehicle. Sounds the same as my '07, only mine is the blue/metallic color. Mine's an LTZ, too with the air suspension. I've never driven an X5. So, I don't know how the two will compare. I will say that mine has been wonderful over the last 4 years of ownership. Just routine maintenance, and one battery that was replaced under warranty. I'm probably going to put new tires on it when spring hits. I looked at the brakes this past Fall. Probably got another 15K-20K miles left on them.

I've towed with mine. I've hauled furniture and big tech parts in it, too. I've taken it on several long road trips. You'd be hard pressed to find a better vehicle for a road trip. And, during this last big snowfall, there's not another vehicle I'd rather be driving than the Tahoe.

If there's one buggaboo with it, it's very thirsty....even with the cylinder shutoff technology. I get about 14 MPG around town. But, it took about 15K miles of breakin before I could achieve that. Although, there was one trip from Cincinnati to Chicago that I did get 19 MPG in straight highway driving.

It's filthy right now. Probably treat it to a nice professional detail this Spring, too.

My guess is he's going to like it, a lot. If you're Father is going to use it the way it's intended to be used (towing/hauling/severe winter driving), I'm sure he'll be pleased.

graphicguy

br...snake....I can understand just trying to move an undesirable model or an undesirable vehicle at cost just to get it off the lot (snake, that CR-V with spoilers and wings sounds dreadful). But, how often does that happen?

I tend to buy vehicles that are relatively popular, in colors that aren't offensive to the eyes. Normally, I'm not interested in "orphaned" vehicles, regardless of the reason. But, if I were, I'd readjust my offer accordingly (as I did when helping my friend buy the leftover CR-V).

driver100

Steering going out of control in Corollas!

I think the RAV4 rental I had was having this problem. Complete lack of feeling of the road, and loose spongy handling.
I think the average buyer must be clueless. RAV4 sales are excellent, I can't figure that one out at all :confuse:

joel0622

Or are you saying that the advice to shop at the end of the month is valid?

I have a theory when I sell cars, get all I can get, when I can get it. If the final price makes $1 sell the car. Why??? Because that will probably be the only chance you have to sell that individual a car and he/she may lead to a referall or repeat.

I had to close my GM yesterday to take a deal we probably shouldn't have. Guy was 78 years old and back in the 70's/80's he spent 18 years in the car biz. I caught him on a sales call a week ago and he just showed up out of the blue.

He was what we call a fender trader. Didn't want to come inside and saw no need in a buyers order till we shook hands. It was all I could do to get him to test drive. He gave me the standard "they all drive the same" excuse and I told him on the short deal he was offering I would not be able to fix anything on the truck so he needed to drive it and I would present his offer while he was gone. It was a used Ranger.

His offer was would we accept $400 over what we have in the truck. My GM did not want the deal. He told me to go work the guy as hard as I was working him. But this was one guy I actually believed when he said I get one shot and one shot only, we trade his way or no way. Now I hear that one shot crap all the time but 95% of the time they mean I get one shot at giving them a price that they feel is close enough to negotiate on.

End result, he got out of the truck from the test drive and I shook his hand. Now I am only two units away from 10 to hit that next bonus level. If I end up with only 10 that $400 deal (my part $140) could potentially make me $1000

houdini1

Good luck joel, I hope you make it.

Kirstie_H

End result, he got out of the truck from the test drive and I shook his hand. Now I am only two units away from 10 to hit that next bonus level.

Well, one, if you count the deal you're about to do with richard64.

joel0622

LMAO, ok I will participate, this could be fun. Let me get the info for you BRB

joel0622

By the way, so everyone here knows this is the Truck Richard will be buying. (sales 101 assume the sale)

Richards new ride