Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
General Motors discussions
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Aura is made in a US factory, meaning the factory was tooled for the Aura. The changes between the models were made in the tooling, which GM was going to have to do anyway.
On the other hand, the Astra would be built in the same plant in the Netherlands, that already makes the European Astra. Your theory would have GM paying big dollars to re-tool the Netherlands factory. The more sensible option would be to not make the vehicle at all.
As for the price, GM will probably have to sell base Astras. Remodelling and retooling would not help.
VW does not have all that much of reputation in North America any longer, given its declining sales.
Just a reminder, check the image size before adding images to your posts. If you have an image that's wider than about 500 pixels that has to be seen full size to be appreciated, just link to the URL where the pic is stored. That way we get to see the image in the new window that it will open in, and we avoid the margin issue as well!
The panoramic windscreen is an option, not standard. It is a rather expensive option.
Unless there is an issue with shipping or meeting demand in Europe, I see no reason that GM would not want to offer the same option here.
A number of the engines offerings are diesel. I believe GM fully wants to import diesels to the US. The question at hand is whether the US government will make the refineries convert to low sulfur on schedule. I've not seen anything about the change over recently.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060508/FREE/60508001/1041/T- OC01ARCHIVE
If GM is going to do as reported, it will have to be the latter. There is no way you can 'massively cheapen assembly cost' mid term in a manufacturing run.
Presumably the $16k would be a base model. Options, if available, will bring the car into the 20+k area real fast. Not sure why GM would not offer the options. If people want to buy them and the components are available, why not?
But I do not understand why you think GM would not offer options the car is already designed to accomodate and which are available in the factory that will make the car. If people want to pay 28k for a loaded Astra, why not sell it to them?
In the past, GM took an Opel design to the United States. It had to re-tool the US factory and buy parts from its North American suppliers. It would be difficult under that scenario to have the exact product, unless it was planned in the process from the start. In this case, you have the Astra factory making Astras for sale to the US. It would actually be harder and less cost effective to make significant changes in the process.
It's kind of like honda telling us: hey, we haven't send you folks a five door civic hatch for a looooong time, so here's a prev gen 5 door civic. Since all the R&D, tools and stamps are already paid for and kinda obsolete, we'll price it at $11k! At least you can still do engine swaps
The Astra will not be replaced until 2009. At which time, a model designed from the ground up for Europe and North America will take place of both the Saturn and the Opel offerings. The car will be as up to date as any of its European competitors.
Saturn is not saying anything about this being a second coming. (Indeed, Saturn is not saying anything at all. The reports are all from 3rd Party Sources. Probably European parts mfgs.) The timing is due to the fact Spring Hill will stop building then to allow for re-tooling as an Opel building facility.
But the reason GM has done that is to be able to sell cars at a profit in the United States.
As you point out, US buyers traditionally balk at paying prices Europeans will pay for compact cars.
This translates into GM making the compact less sophisticated, but usually keeping a lot of superficial add ons, such as sun roofs, stereo and leather, that customers will pay for. This worked somewhat, as GM made the cars in the US. Essentially, all Opel gave was the design. GM North American engineers and suppliers then dialed down the car to make it cheaper.
In this case, the car will be made in Europe. I believe it would be more expensive to redesign new components and retool than to simply use what is there already.
Add to that GM has laid off many engineers, planning on using the Opel Engineers to make Saturns. I am not even sure you have the someone's in place any longer. Unless you think GM is having people from Chevrolet or GMDAT making instructions for GM Opel employees.
I believe after the initial re-org pieces saying that Spring Hill was closing, GM later said it will be re-assigned. It is a very new factory, although it turned out to be fairly expensive getting parts to what is a somewhat remote location.
So Saturn will be with out a C segment car for a year if that reads right. Ion production will end in December of this year and there will not be a replacement until the following autumn?
Most likely, GM will make some extra IONS to cover some of the demand. It appears there will be a period where the compact pickings at Saturn are very slim.
Saturn usually starts getting the next year's cars around August. I do not know how that synchs with Opel production.
The article says insiders in GM and Opel confirmed the story.
Right you are. I missed that.
Saturn miaght just pull off a nice trick on Ford, which has been resisting the introduction of the Europen Focus because it would be too expensive... I am a Ford guy and former Focus owner and am very dissapointed that they dropped the ball on that one - now I drive the closest thing I could buy to the 2nd gen Focus - Mazda3..
BTW I heard somewhere that the Cobalt was on a better platform than the Astra anyone knows more.. something that GM had a new platform, but Opel decided to use the old - cheaper one, while GM NA went with the new one for the Cobalt and the G5
Igor
The Cobalt and current Ion are on the Delta platform. It is a pretty nice platform. Some criticize that it does not have a fully independent rear suspension, however.
I remember initially the Delta was going to be used in Europe, but Opel decided not to. I thought Opel ultimately went with a variation of a new Fiat platform however. I understand the Astra gets fairly good reviews for ride and handling in Europe, however.
The next Cobalt, Astra and Ion/Astra (whatever Saturn calls it) will share a common platform.
- Tacoma's sales are almost double the sales of the second best seller. What's up with that?
- Sales of both the Isuzu i-series and Mitsubishi Raider were undisclosed. But both trucks are seriously failing."
I get the message here - finally, Imports have siezed the small truck market from us. Took them 23 years, but they did it. It was our game to lose, once again, and we lost it great.
Next, we'll give them the large truck market.....
Igor
I think it was 1982 when the Chevy S-10 first came out, and I believe the little Ranger and that little Jeep Commanche came out around the same time, or maybe around 1984. Then Dodge launched the Dakota for 1987.
For awhile in the 90's it seemed like the tide was actually turning and the domestics were winning over. Especially once GM started building trucks for Isuzu and Ford for Mazda! Nissan let the Frontier go too long without significant updating, almost as if they were taking a few pages from GM's or Ford's book on how do do things. Only the Toyota seemed to be a strong seller.
Lately though, it seems like the imports are really taking over again. The Tacoma is coming on strong, and the Frontier is updated. I think the Dakota got too big for its own good, and while it seems like a good truck in theory, with V-8 power, generous dimensions, and a tough look, in practice it's just too heavy, the V-8 isn't strong enough, and it's not all that space-efficient. There are just other trucks out there that can do it better. The Ranger is just old. And the Colorado/Canyon don't seem a big enough improvement over the S-10 they replaced. IIRC, payload and towing capacity actually went DOWN!
2nd I said gas would go below $2 this year. Well it did but then it went right back up!
3rd I said GM would make a profit in the 3rd quarter. Well I was wrong again. They made it in the first quarter.
Now I wonder who will be blamed for this profit? Was it hourly? Was it management? Was it product? Was it politics? Was it exchange rates?
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060509/AUTO01/605090355/1148-
Goes to show just how much money the pensions cost.
Whatever the reason for the profit, as long as this means GM will have the cash to follow through on the CTS Coupe, I am pleased.
FWIW, Autoweek is featuring (a pretty poor) artist conception up of what they say the CTS Coupe will look like. The linked article says GM is looking hard at making a coupe.
Apparently, the problem is Coupes typically meet real high demand the first 18 months or so, then fall off with the majority of people going conservative and buying the sedan.
I have not had a car for two years now. I would seriously consider jumping back into the fray for a well executed CTS Coupe. Guess there just are not enough like me being made any longer.
I drove two base model Cobalt rentals. Ride and handling was decent for what I assume these things cost. Very quiet cars as well. I believe you are right on about the weight difference between it and the Astra.
I would like to get my hands on a 2.4 SS Cobalt with the upgraded suspension. That would be the real test. The SS Supercharged would be a hoot as well. But I could never see driving a FWD car with a goofy whale tail spoiler. Wonder how much a body shop would charge to remove it?
GM NA assumes only kids want the Supercharged version. They figure older people will buy a luxury sport car over an economy sport. Opel understands that adults will by a fun less expensive car if they do not look like fools driving it. Hope Saturn does work out things with Opel where the sportier Astras are brought over as well as the base.
Bah, just tell the dealer that swapping the trunk lid is a condition of the sale.
GM NA assumes only kids want the Supercharged version. They figure older people will buy a luxury sport car over an economy sport.
That's pretty much true, for the dwindling number of people who would consider buying a GM car.
For most folks I think real would mean more money came in than went out. Not sure there's any way to tell that anymore with the way things are accounted! :surprise:
That doesn't mean GM is a good investment
If you made $50,000 and bought a $200,000 house, you aren't 150,000 in the red that year because chances are you're paying for the house over time.
But aside from that, this AP article explains much of the "profit":
GM said it reported a gain of $372 million from the sale of its 17 per cent stake in Suzuki Motor Corp., up $55 million from its preliminary earnings report because of foreign exchange rates.
The automaker revised first-quarter results for General Motors Acceptance Corp. to reflect the finalization of the tax effect for the sale of GMAC Commercial Mortgage, which closed in late March. As a result of the sale, GMAC earned $637 million US in the first quarter, which is more than the $605 million previously reported.
These are one-time benefits that include the sale of the very same cash cow that has been supporting the losing North American automaking component of the business.
It comes down to this: With GM wittled down to being just an automaker, as opposed to it being a financing and aerospace company that is in the satellite TV business as it once was, its fate will now be made or broken based largely upon car sales. Looking at the North American sales picture, sales are down, fleet sales are up and most of the recently introduced mass-market models (cars such as the Impala, Aveo and G6, not a low-volume specialty car such as the Solstice) are not selling in particularly strong numbers to retail consumers, which in turn should lead to further discounting and fleet sales. I'm looking for the home run car that would generate both sales and new loyal customers, and I'm not seeing it.
$625 PER WINDOW?! Geeze! I complained a few years back when I needed two power window motors in my Gran Fury, and back then it was "only" $225 per window. $150 for the motor and $75 to put it in. A few years later I bought a '79 New Yorker, which needed a rear window motor and soon thereafter the front started to go bad. The Gran Fury was no longer running, so I made sure I found a way to swap those expensive replacement motors into the other car!
It was actually almost the same part, except that the wiring harness was a bit different. But for some reason that little detail added like $50+ to the price of the motor.
200K+ miles on a 1992 model purchased from a seedy "buy-here-pay-here" lot in a maginal neighborhood.
I have had one problem after another.
Making my weekly payments and keeping the landlord off my back.
When starting cold, engine really noisy and shakes.
Nothing wrong with the car, but after with a nasty hangover, those birds singing in the morning are really noisy and I have the shakes.
Dealer cleaned carbon,
The blackjack dealer in Atlantic City really cleaned me and my wife burnt the roast to carbon waiting for me to come home.
Problem keep returning.
To the liquor store
Also burns oil, one quart per l,000 miles, dealer says this is normal..
And I burn one fifth of rotgut whiskey every 6 hours. My drug dealer says it's normal for me to have withdrawal symptoms if I don't see him often.
Leaks antifreeze...
I only used the green stuff when it takes the orange stuff
dealer wants $875 for fix
Which is a heck of a price for heroin
Tires wear out every 20,000 miles,
After doing "burn-outs" at every stop sign and traffic light.
3 of the 4 power windows have stopped working.
And so have I because I keep getting fired.
First and last Cadillac I will own.
And probably the last car I'll ever own because my credit is so shot no bank or car dealer will ever take me seriously again
I am not use to car problems like this.
Because I usually take the bus whenever I can bum $2 from my wife or friends.
We drive Ford Windstars at work. Get 250,000 plus miles from these with virtually no mechanical problems or oil use.
Does Spock have a beard in his universe?
What is up with people who waste our time with posts like this?
just say "I disagree" and move on.
[insert eye roll]
Some guys here need hobbies, I think.
Based on this I have trouble believing this post!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
add a smiley or two, so I can tell that you're not all bent out of shape
:-)
#369 of 383 2002 Cadillac Deville Problems by sjohnson100 Apr 25, 2006 (9:56 am)(from the Cadillac forum)
During the four years I have owned this Cadillac have had one problem after another..When starting cold, engine really noisy and shakes..dealer cleaned carbon, problem keep returning. Also burns oil, one quart per l,000 miles, dealer says this is normal..Leaks antifreeze..dealer wants $875 to fix small leak, tires wear out every 20,000 miles, 3 of the 4 power windows have stopped working..Dealer wants $625 per window to fix with new motor and more if find additional problems. First and last Cadillac I will own. I am not use to car problems like this. We drive Ford Windstars at work. Get 250,000 plus miles from these with virtually no mechanical problems or oil use.
This is not good!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Why import only 40,000 of them? Doesn't the Ion, unloved as it is, sell more than 40,000 per year?